Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: senna on November 20, 2000, 01:54:00 AM
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Remove the distance value in the icon and simply make the icon display AC type. Better yet, use smaller icons (just a bit smaller). If HTC does that then the pilot really has to use judgement in distance and that usually means getting in close just to be safe, else better gunnery skills. How about moving the icon below the AC instead of on top.
--senna
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*clap* *clap* *clap*
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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Applause seconded (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I agree - I think the distance should be removed. I had never thought about putting the icon below - I think that is a very good idea - I often find I "target fixate" on the icon instead of the a/c - putting the icon below would help alleviate that I think.
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That would also eliminate 1K spray'n'prays - people would try to get closer to hit.
I would also disposed of the Rooks, Bishops and Knight's icons - it's a friendly con or an enemy, who cares where he came from?
Icons under the dot would kill the need to icon to "disappear" when the dot goes out of sight - the icon would disappear first (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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lynx
13 Sqn RAF
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I know of many pro's to removing range tags but there are some serious cons also, related mainly to the normal magnification level of AH.
Though I love no tags flying (which can't be done here with mix and match AC) if distance was ever removed I'd want only a country icon (or some kind of friend/foe icon) and NO plane tags. Distance tags of course are unrealistic but so is knowing what type of AC your about to tangle with. If distance tags are a leg up so are plane ID tags.
Otherwise I like the ideas.
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Wingnut
GeschwaderKommadore
P.T.R. "Black 13"
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/images/squads/approved/wingnut.gif)
The quality of the box matters little. Success depends upon the man who sits in it - Baron Manfred von Richthofen
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Yes and give us all the same puter and monitor don't forget we all don't have NASA puters and 56" monitors Icons are there to keep a somewhat level playing field for lowend users thanks.
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As a compromise, remove the range at less than 1k
AKSKurj
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Remove the neumerical ranges, but leave the ID as is. Replace the range number with a + to indidicate that you are geting closer to the con and a - to indicate that you are geting further away from the con.
Or have the range number changed to a closer number, eg
Spit
+129
would indicate that you are looking at a Spitfire and are gaining 129 yards per minute on it.
F4U
-1526
would indicate an F4U that with a separation of 1526 yards per minute.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Just get rid of those big dorky icons that take up half the sky..
or make them smaller!
I hate losing sight of the plane when all there is is this big red icon flying around.
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Not bad Karnak!
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-21-2000).]
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Originally posted by RedBrn:
Just get rid of those big dorky icons that take up half the sky..
or make them smaller!
LOL, go to combatsim.com and download beta ver .42 Then come back and talk about billboard Icons
I am with AKSurj, drop the distance counter under 1k, and if they really offend folks, you can always turn em off altogether (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
JimBear
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I'd like to see a modification on how the icons are presented rather than a change in information. One of the more unrealistic aspects of the sim is to be flying several thousand feet above a camoflaged airplane and seeing a large red icon. The aircraft itself maybe nearly invisible but that non-scalable icon appears like a neon billboard.
The vehicle icon systems works great, IMO, and would lend itself to making lower opponents less visible. I'd suggest creating the equivilant of an obstructed view cone vertically below an airplane where the icon is not visible until it reaches a certain range. We already see icons disappear in the vicinity of clouds. Incorporating this would result in the equivilent of cloud (albeit invisible) below your plane that only blocks out the icon. It would not change horizontal or vertical detection ranges.
I'd also like to see icons disapear completely when in the vicinity of the sun.
Incorporating these two changes wouldn't mean much when viewing bandits horizontally but would give advantages in detection difficulty to both higher and lower bandits. For instance: Current colorations of Japanese aircraft would enjoy a significant benefit over land in the same way that the big blue carrier aircraft will over water. More real-life tactics could be used effectively, like low level ground hugging attacks and out of the sun bounces.
MiG
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You take those icons out and you have a much more realistic sim.
You will add suprise which is missing today.
EYE
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Originally posted by -lynx-:
I would also disposed of the Rooks, Bishops and Knight's icons - it's a friendly con or an enemy, who cares where he came from?
Please not !
Once upon of time I've (with my wingman) protected a crook Lancaster on her bombing run on a nit field that was fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Especially shooting him down after her run (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Muhahah (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Yes and give us all the same puter and monitor don't forget we all don't have NASA puters and 56" monitors Icons are there to keep a somewhat level playing field for lowend users thanks.
Don't know too many people flying AH with that configuration Torque.
Lets face it. Laser ranging icons are THE main reason why AH is currently a game, and not a flight sim.
Distance tags in icons have a huge effect on gameplay, promoting unrealistic long range gunnery and diminishing the value of realistic defensive maneuvers.
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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps
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Originally posted by Jekyll:
Laser ranging icons are THE main reason why AH is currently a game, and not a flight sim.
Jekyll, go buy yourself an hour in a certified flight simulator for about $500.
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They can take out the distance in icons at the same time they put depth perception into the game and limit the type / brand of planes each country can fly as well as monitor size and resolution the game is to be played in.
Icons don't create the spray and pray, they do more to prevent it. If you know the target is out of range then you don't fire. No idea of range and you will have more players firing to see if the target IS in range.
Want to reduce long range firing???? Reduce gun range in game (and it is a game not a true sim) as well as lethality for the cannon planes. Limit convergence to 300 yards / meters and have tracers disappear at 500 yards with bullets turning to dust at 700 yards. That will truly limit the long range firing but it wouldn't be "realistic" would it?
Mav
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This topic always seems to come up... but you are kidding yourself if you think removing the icons would make the game more realistic. Until monitors have the resolution of my eyeball, we are going to have a hard time losing the markers. Look up in the sky and you can ID planes miles away... try that in AH! Fact is... monitors can't represent distance well enough yet... hence... the need for the markers. Taking them off would certainly make it *less* realistic because we'd be flying with much less awareness than an actual pilot has. Harder does not always = more realistic.
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Hi All,
Plenty of life in this one I feel. I don't think the range is the problem with the current setup. Even the icons themselves aren't really the problem. Of course it would be more realistic without them.(Although not with the current spit V spit set up in the MA and most peoples video set up's). The problem I think is the different colours used for friend & foe. It would make more sense for all icons to be the same colour (Preferably selectable for us colourblind types (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ). The big letdown with AH (IMO) is the ease with which you can identify the enemy in a furball etc. At least if the icons were the same colour some form of identification would be necessary before diving into a melee with a few K alt advantage.
TTFN
snafu
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snafus Homepage (http://www.snafu.theantcolony.com)
(http://www.snafu.theantcolony.com/Images/goondrops.gif)
[This message has been edited by snafu (edited 11-29-2000).]
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Jekyll, go buy yourself an hour in a certified flight simulator for about $500.
And your point is?
Tell ya what Toad. You find me a post on this BBS, ANY post, in which HT refers to Aces High as a sim, and not a game, and I'll go get that hour.
They can take out the distance in icons at the same time they put depth perception into the game
Then put the same feature into AH as has existed since forever in Air Warrior: - the ability to scale your gunsight size to the range of the opposing aircraft. Those who flew AW will remember how you could expand and contract your gunsight. If you had your gunsight set at 400yds range, the opponent was 400yds away when its wings touched the edge of the gunsight circle.
[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 12-01-2000).]
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"If you had your gunsight set at 400yds range, the opponent was 400yds away when its wings touched the edge of the gunsight circle."
This sounds like an great feature!
<PUNT> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
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Actually two points:
1. There are VERY MANY things that keep AH from being a "flight simulator" rather than a "WW2 based ACM GAME". "Laser ranging icons are THE main reason is an simply incorrect statement. The icons are merely a very minor reason.
2. Correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect you have no time in a six-axis motion certified flight simulator? So my second point is that you have no basis for reference until you do.
Good GAME, but a GAME none the less.
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Simply put Aces high is a game. If you ask what type of game is it. Its an air combat sim.
If you guys realy feel the need to debate a sim v game. I think you should both define your terms very precisly.
HiTech
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I agree HT.
The term "simulator" gets tossed around pretty lightly.
A Class II or III Flight Simulator is an awesome device. There is absolutely no way you can even begin to approach it on a desktop computer with peripheral devices.
AH is a Game and that is not derogatory in any sense. It's a very good, immersive PC program. I really enjoy it.
I do get a little tired of people that expect ANY PC program (not just AH) to substitute as a true flight simulator.
Jekyll:
This little icon debate has gone on forever and probably always will. The simple fact is that when you cram a big 3D world into a 2D 19" monitor you are never going to get "real world" results.
In a Class II or III device, the windows are real-sized windows; the FOV is the actual FOV. Objects are exactly and correctly sized and thus artificial range information is not required. In short, it looks like it would look if you were actually flying.
I've never said Icons couldn't stand a bit of experimentation or improvement. However, IMHO they are always going to be necessary in a 2D computer monitor environment with a scaled FOV. Range information, in some form, needs to be part of that if you really want "real life info".
As I said, this horse is beaten. I'm out.
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Originally posted by hitech:
Simply put Aces high is a game. If you ask what type of game is it. Its an air combat sim.
If you guys realy feel the need to debate a sim v game. I think you should both define your terms very precisly.
HiTech
No No No ...
AH is real, the wife, kids, dog and mortgage are the game (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
As for icons, I vote for no plane type or distance on enemy planes, just a red dot, 6k range. On friendlies, just name and a green dot.
Really like to see a scenario without any icons, maybe a smaller map so you don't fly around all day without running into someone.
But then again, being from Florida, what's my vote worth? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Eagler
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Maybe i am missing something here, but cant you turn the icons off? I recall someone at sometime telling me that you could.
If I am wrong, then never mind. This post was just a figment of your imagination. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Range information, in some form, needs to be part of that if you really want "real life info".
Couldn't agree more Toad. I suppose the disappointing part is that the range icon system we have in Aces High is no different from that which existed in Air Warrior, Warbirds etc.
Ain't it about time that a different approach was tried? Maybe a sliding bar beneath the aircraft type, ranging down from 6000yds to 0. Or a closure bar, or ANYTHING other than the same old system that's been around for ages, and has been disliked for ages.
I mean, would we settle for 1990 quality graphics in a 2000 game? So why do we meekly accept 1985 style icons?