Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: EagleEyes on January 12, 2009, 02:56:20 AM
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So im curious to see what everyone thinks of Russia and their latest stunt!
We all know what they did to Georgia during the Olympics....But now they have pretty much shut off all the oil that goes through Ukraine to Europe saying Ukraine is stealing it! Even though Ukraine is paying a ridiculous amount of money for the oil it was getting. Anyone else see this being a problem?? Possible War?? Russian aggression??
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090112/wl_nm/us_russia_ukraine_gas;_ylt=AuQC3MF4loDj.Db3XEuJZWJvaA8F (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090112/wl_nm/us_russia_ukraine_gas;_ylt=AuQC3MF4loDj.Db3XEuJZWJvaA8F)
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Its gas and not oil.
They are flexing abit to get a better price for their gas and to get payed for gas already delivered. Ukraine has been slow to pay.
I doubt there will be any wars over this.
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So im curious to see what everyone thinks of Russia and their latest stunt!
We all know what they did to Georgia during the Olympics....But now they have pretty much shut off all the oil that goes through Ukraine to Europe saying Ukraine is stealing it! Even though Ukraine is paying a ridiculous amount of money for the oil it was getting. Anyone else see this being a problem?? Possible War?? Russian aggression??
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090112/wl_nm/us_russia_ukraine_gas;_ylt=AuQC3MF4loDj.Db3XEuJZWJvaA8F (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090112/wl_nm/us_russia_ukraine_gas;_ylt=AuQC3MF4loDj.Db3XEuJZWJvaA8F)
Two corrections: They shut down the natural gas pipe and Ukraine has been getting gas with Soviet union era prices which are less than half what the rest of Europe is paying.
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Anyone else see this being a problem?? Possible War?? Russian aggression??
You mean we must occupy Ukraine just to dont let Europe freeze to death? :huh
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Were the Ukranians tapping off gas as claimed by the Russians, or were they not?
If they were, and the Russians block because of that, NEITHER will get gas...
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Yea this is actually more a case of Russia trying to put Ukraine on a more level business ground with the rest of Europe than it is Russia being aggressive. I'm no fan of the Russian leadership, but to be honest the Georgia conflict was technically started by the Georgians. Likewise, Ukraine is being the "aggressor" in this case...
I'm not saying Russia is not overreacting, (clearly they did in Georgia) but more trying to get people thinking from both perspectives here. Also, I doubt any real conflict will come of this, other than further bickering / political positioning. Poland and Germany will start getting really cold, impose a bit more pressure on Ukraine to stop expecting the benefits of a free market without the set-backs, (ie regular gas prices) and the issue will be settled.
Anyway, I love all of it. Eastern european politics make me laugh real hard.
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So im curious to see what everyone thinks of Russia and their latest stunt!
We all know what they did to Georgia during the Olympics....But now they have pretty much shut off all the oil that goes through Ukraine to Europe saying Ukraine is stealing it! Even though Ukraine is paying a ridiculous amount of money for the oil it was getting. Anyone else see this being a problem?? Possible War?? Russian aggression??
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090112/wl_nm/us_russia_ukraine_gas;_ylt=AuQC3MF4loDj.Db3XEuJZWJvaA8F (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090112/wl_nm/us_russia_ukraine_gas;_ylt=AuQC3MF4loDj.Db3XEuJZWJvaA8F)
First of all Georgia launched attack first.Casualties weren't even close to current conflict in Gaza which USA seemes to be fine with it.
And secondly Ukraine ows 2 billion dollars for gas to Russia.They should've thought of it before shooting down Russian planes in Georgia.
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We have let Putin go unchecked for many years now and he has slowly changed the country back into almost a soviet style of government.
He gave himself alot more power... some shady things going on over there, right now the US and Russia aren't the best of allies, so hopefully we can work on that, because that is one country we do not want to mess with. (can you say largest nuclear stockpile in the world!! ahh!)
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First of all Georgia launched attack first.Casualties weren't even close to current conflict in Gaza which USA seemes to be fine with it.
The US is ok with it because Hamas is a terrorist organization. It would be like the UN trying to make a Peace Treaty with Al-Queada! Just not gonna happen!! Hamas broke the cease-fire, Hamas was the first one to launch Rockets into Isreal. And now Hamas is screaming for the UN to step in and get a cease-fire!! Come on, thats just ridiculous!!
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ehhh can we not hijack this thread? I enjoy occasionally being able to talk about world events without Israel coming up... :(
How bout them Moldovans? :D
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The US is ok with it because Hamas is a terrorist organization. It would be like the UN trying to make a Peace Treaty with Al-Queada! Just not gonna happen!! Hamas broke the cease-fire, Hamas was the first one to launch Rockets into Isreal. And now Hamas is screaming for the UN to step in and get a cease-fire!! Come on, thats just ridiculous!!
http://www.infowars.com/?p=7080 (http://www.infowars.com/?p=7080)
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We have let Putin go unchecked for many years now and he has slowly changed the country back into almost a soviet style of government.
He gave himself alot more power... some shady things going on over there, right now the US and Russia aren't the best of allies, so hopefully we can work on that, because that is one country we do not want to mess with. (can you say largest nuclear stockpile in the world!! ahh!)
Yeltsin offered to be allies with USA,Bush rejected it.
I think it was in the book. "Yeltsin,the life" i believe.
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Well, one momma of conspiracy theories is that we must keep hings as they are...sort of.
But if Ucraine is not paying and tapping off, it seems to me that Russia has no choice but to shut down. The pipeline AFAIK runs THROUGH Ucraine, so the Russians must shut off at home base. That leaves Europe in the cold.
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Isn't Russia building their own Super Carrier?
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To my knowledge they are, even heard rumors that they are working on it with China...But dont quote me on it!
I apologize for not knowing all the facts before i posted this. I was unaware that Ukraine was "stealing" the natural gas from Russia.
But still, does anyone for see Russia flexing its Military Muscle in the near future at Ukraine?
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But if Ucraine is not paying and tapping off, it seems to me that Russia has no choice but to shut down. The pipeline AFAIK runs THROUGH Ucraine, so the Russians must shut off at home base. That leaves Europe in the cold.
According to "Gasprom" (russian gas vendor), Ukraine didnt payed for 2008 gas (not fully) and dont want to pay "europe" price in 2009. As result "Gasprom" stop deliver gas for Ukraine but leave Europe transit going. Ukraine start to steal gas from transit pipe ("Gasprom" say he have data from independent auditors), "Gasprom" decrease transit for amount Ukraine took and said Ukraine must return to Europe all they stealed. Then Ukraine shut transit pipe on their side and take all transit gas to themself. "Gasprom" stop transit as it dont reach Europe anyway.
This is official story as I know. Of course, I cannt say is it true or not.
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To my knowledge they are, even heard rumors that they are working on it with China...But dont quote me on it!
I apologize for not knowing all the facts before i posted this. I was unaware that Ukraine was "stealing" the natural gas from Russia.
But still, does anyone for see Russia flexing its Military Muscle in the near future at Ukraine?
As I said earlier Eagle, I don't think it will come to that. The line which is being shut down not only cuts gas supply to Ukraine, but also Poland and eastern parts of Germany. (among others) These countries are already seeing shortages in the range of 10-15%...which may not seem like a lot, but it can get messy quickly. When this supply gets even lower, they will undoubtedly increase pressure on Ukraine...and seeing as it is a decidedly western looking country I'd imagine they will cave long before things get hairy.
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decidedly western looking country
:rofl
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:rofl
Well they are more so than their neighbors Kgb :)
Update = Gas is flowing once again, as of this morning. EU sent in observers to ensure a fair flow through Ukraine without further interruptions... :aok
People aren't going to waste time screwing around arguing about gas in the middle of the winter :D
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First of all Georgia launched attack first.Casualties weren't even close to current conflict in Gaza which USA seemes to be fine with it.
And secondly Ukraine ows 2 billion dollars for gas to Russia.They should've thought of it before shooting down Russian planes in Georgia.
Russia is in the right on these issues from what I've read up about them. Russia has just never been gentle about the way it does things though (like shutting off the gas to collect on a bill/debt in the middle of winter). Though I was surprised that Russia didn't march straight to the capital of Georgia last year after the Georgians poked the giant bear with a stick... but the thought has crossed my mind that the decision to not completely take out Georgia was a move by Russia to pour salt in the wound of the Bush administration (in comparing invasions: Georgia and Russia to Iraq and America).
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Russia is in the right on these issues from what I've read up about them. Russia has just never been gentle about the way it does things though (like shutting off the gas to collect on a bill/debt in the middle of winter). Though I was surprised that Russia didn't march straight to the capital of Georgia last year after the Georgians poked the giant bear with a stick... but the thought has crossed my mind that the decision to not completely take out Georgia was a move by Russia to pour salt in the wound of the Bush administration (in comparing invasions: Georgia and Russia to Iraq and America).
Nah,Russia is not as strong as it looks.You should've seen footage,interviews from Russian side. It was the same soviet era chaoting warfare.
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Does anyone know the casualty rates from the war in Georgia?