Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Blindman on November 26, 2001, 12:34:00 PM
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I just made a buff run on a24 fighter hangers which were attacking a3, made my pass, turned around to work on fuel (was lanc) and all 3 fighter hangers back up! looked at message display and had 3 fighter hanger destroyed messages, WHAT A JOKE 1.08 has turned into and a bad one at that!
People are PO'd at the map , at the influx of new players but its not those, its the game play of 1.08 that is the problem and needs fixed, it promotes furballing, NOTHING but furballing
I'm tired of being upset when i log since i've enjoyed this game so much, i hear and read where other are not enjoying it either!
Now how long do we have to DEAL this horrible excuse for game play
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The town by the airfield needs to be destroyed first, that way the atomatic resupply doesn't happen.
I agree that this is much harder on bombers (Laz is happy) than previous versions. With goon resupply and automatic resupply what takes 1-3 man hours to destroy only takes 15-45 man minutes to repair.
The old axiom that it is easier to destroy than to build is undone.
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I find the same effect happens to my friends and I when we bomb an Air Field tottal to the ground. Also we find it really Upsetting that we fly for about 40 minutes to the target, drop out eggs onto the taget, and What Would U know. Suddenly Planes of all sorts come screaming out of the field and clime to the alt we are currecntly at and shot us down in only 10 minutes.
Now in my books, flying for 40minutes to 1hr to the target, suxcessfully bomb it, then to get people poping out of there like crazed monkey the next minute is tottaly stupid.
I dont think 1.09 will bring a fix with bomber the next version, UNless their is changes made to the rebuild time of AirFields and Also Towns.
Another note on the C-47s, I have drop supplys on a Base to magically Bring it all to life in a matter of seconds. This is a completly Destroyed Field, Being repaid in a matter of seconds, COME ON!
"The Conclusion" Its much more effective, if any ONE FIGHTER brings ONE 500lb Bomb to the target a drops it, thats my conclusion, bomber right now SUX. They are not being used correct to BOMB targets.
FIX the Repair System.
Fix The Bomber.
Fix The Spawn Points.
[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: chad ]
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It all boils down to the automatic resupply situation.If they stop that, then the killing of hangers and ordinance might work again.If a base needs resupply,than someone should have to do it,not an automatic resupply train or convoy.
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Hi All,
I think the main problem is handing over the Supply chain to the AI. (Although you could just Kill/Capture the depot first). Sure I know goons, M3's etc can also resupply fields but the fact that no man power needs to be tied up in field supply is the big problem. I would like to see Trains/Trucks require someone to be on board at all times. Not to drive specifically but to man the gun(s) for the Train/Truck to run. Each carraige could have it's own gun position which could be manned (Like the Task force) or one person could control all guns (Like in a bomber) and the train would continue to run as long as at least one person was aboard. If the last person leaves or is killed (All Gun positions destroyed)? The train blows up/dissappears.
Just my 2c
TTFN
snafu
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Erm... realistically, who would want to sit and man gun positions on a train for hours with no action?
I don't see what's so bad about automatic resupply... that's how it's always been, it's just less abstract now. I think the real problem is the actual isolation and takedown of a field is made harder and is a more in-depth process requiring a level of teamwork that simply doesn't exist in the MA. Maybe if the "travel time" for supplies was increased this problem could be somewhat alleviated.
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I agree, sadly bombing has become almost useless now.
I don't mind ai controlled resupply, but one resupply (no matter if its train, convoy, m3 or c47) should NOT repair the field fully and instantly.
HTC: if anyone is reading..plz adjust the resupply system. Let bring some strategy to this game.
[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: jpeg ]
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Well over the last coming days i have been temted to DELETE my account from Aces High, but i havent because of a couple of things.
Waiting for the New Bomber AI to come along, and Also this is the best Golly-geen community i have seen.
I am new, but i played Aces High from 1.03 onwards, watching the message board and playing in HTH for a LONG time. Its only until recently i have started to pay the monthly fee to play this great game.
If we cant change the supply system, why cant we damage the Train TRACKS!!!!!!. If u drop 18 1K bombs accross a train tracks, this should take about 18 train trips to fix the rail way.
But i love this game, and I think in time these problems will be worked out.
Also, If people are against bomber being so good at High alt and also not having Frozest Bite and Fatigue. Why dont we Model it for the bombers and fighter to!. It seem far, if your going to edit the bomber Fatguie and Frozest bite, these changes should also be added to fighter aswell. I would love to see a pilot Blank out after his does a sudden 4 G turn :)
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Chad nobody blanks out from sudden 4G turns. The blackout/redout is already modeled in the game.
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He's got a point, the day of the buff is gone. With this new version, anything a buff does is magically undone with one little-bitty C47. Take 2 Lancasters and bomb HQ. Radar down. Send a little-bitty C47 over and its magically all better.
<Pac Man powerup sound> :D
I dunno, I love to buff but I'm also maddened that is the buff-gameplay that is taking the biggest hit of all. Fields respawn way too fast. But, fighter jocks are the majority. They are upset if we bomb them, they are upset if we shoot them down, and they are made if they hit us twice and we do not crumble and fall apart at first contact.
HiTech/HTC, how about re-examining the buff role in the game? As it is, anything the buff attempts to do can be undone all too easily. Our craters can be driven thru and flown through with no damage, and the damage we do cause is wiped away with one puny C47 drop.
It takes a lot of work to get a Buff to alt and over target safely. To undo their work so quickly is a major disservice.
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Buff dweebs complaining about the effect a goony driven by another buff dweeb has.
Oh, the irony!
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I can't speak for all but for myself, the effect of 14 1000 pound bombs should DO something versus a little C-47 and its very limited cargo space. By the terms of this game, the C47 has vastly more supply and resource room than a FLEET of C-5A's!
Add it up....how many hangars get fixed with just ONE visit from the Gooney Fairy? C'mon...!
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Reading this thread first I was tempted to agree with seeker :p.
Well reading it twice I have to agree that the Strategy model need some tuning. I don't believe it is the Buff role in that certain case, Which will be redone for 1.09 anyway and I am looking forward to it.
I am missing suggestion instead of complaints here, so let me make 1 :D.
How about getting rid of the immediate rebuild of fields and facilities after resupply. Maybe cut the time down to Half for bringing in 1 goon, down to a quarter for the 2nd. and so on.
They could also bring more differences in resupplies needed. Maybe a bigger a field the more are needed or things like that.
dunno which way it'll work, just my 2 cents.
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Originally posted by Specterx:
Erm... realistically, who would want to sit and man gun positions on a train for hours with no action?
Erm... probably the same kind of people who are happy to spend hours climbing to 25K in a buff only to get shot out of the sky. Or the people who selflessly throw goon after goon at a field because someone says it's Flat (When it isn't), or the people who have said yes to tower only radar and say they would be happy to do a Stint in the tower. But I do take your point. ;) However, make it worthwhile from a perkie point of view and they would come, The current supply routes don't take to long to complete. Perhaps as a modification to the idea just say the train/truck must be manned at all times (Though not necessarely by a single person). The current train/truck defence setup is just another form of "otto".
TTFN
snafu
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I would take a train ride, even if it were for hours. I have no prob with that (as long as the route is scenic). As for the re-supply, yeah, instant resupply would be good to tone down. Insta-base? Imagine if they had those things nowadays. If you could have multiple people on a train that would be fun. Ya know, fly around for awhile, then get on a train and pray your fun ride isn't interupted by a 1000 pound bomb in the face.
My two pesos
-Chris-
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Correct me if I'm wrong but did't the Patch 5 change how goonies resupplied bases?
As I recall it takes about 7 goonie drops to bring a heavily damaged base back to life.
The base will still be auto-built with the arrival of a train but not with a single goon drop.
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That is how quickly the *city* rebuilds.
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Bring ONE fighter to take out the train...
Broes
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Train Acks are pretty deadly... like the town acks. Air base acks are much easier.
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We did one of the most fun missions you can ever do in Aces High last night, only to be dejected by the outcome.
10 mossies and 7 P38's flying a Nap of earth HQ mission, after destroying 50% of the city.
Now, if you've ever rode shotgun with me,Zig or any other fellas on one of these missions, you know they are NOT easy. First, you have to defeat the dar bar by playing little tricks...if you do succeed in getting to within 25 miles of the enemy HQ, then you have to face the deadly AA towers AT the HQ, along with the factories that my surprize you over the next mountain.
Now, we get the HQ down to 75%, in days of old, that would mean the enemy would be without dar for at least 1 hour. In this case, the country I was flying for was losing territory to hordes of the enemy country...no problem, I can accept that, but after taking out the HQ for the means of atttempting a come back against the enemy,... a single C47 lands and rebuilds it all.
Gentlemen, HQ missions are the most dangerous, as well as the most fun missions you can do in AH. They have now been completely nuetered to the point that no one will probably want to do another, since the act of a single C47 can rebuild it. "Put a cap up to kill the c47.." you say? Ya right, that will work as long as your fuel lasts(and you have already used 75% of it getting to HQ), and the hordes that up the nearby field don't kill you first.
HQ's should require at LEAST 7 X C47's to rebuild(as it is required in Field Towns), at least this would give the agressor a fighting chance to keep the enemy at bay while they regroup.
Bombers have truely been extinct in AH. I agree, we've been shoe boxed into certain players calls for furball only arenas...and unfortunately, HTC has listened... :(
[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
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"unfortunately, HTC has listened..."
And even so HTC focuses on bomber gameplay for 1.09?
Westy
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Originally posted by O'Westy:
"unfortunately, HTC has listened..."
And even so HTC focuses on bomber gameplay for 1.09?
Westy
I have not read that information, please point me to your source.
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HiTechs interview. It had been the subject of much disussion on the General Forumn recently.
http://www.wargamer.com/articles/aces_high_interview_main.asp (http://www.wargamer.com/articles/aces_high_interview_main.asp)
FWIW I think Pyro is still tweaking the settings and things will change for several of the "strat" features.
Westy
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I'm glad to see others posting on this subject (even if it could've been named something a bit friendlier...).
This isn't a Buff Whine....then again, anything a buff driver mentions is *automatically* assumed to be a whine...but anyways...
Yes, the strat system went out the window fast in 1.08. Further, the idea of multiple goon runs to re-up a city intrigues me. After experimenting, I noted the first to drop on the city gets some points. Drops 2 thru 9 got nothing. Zero, zip, nada. Why?
And the HQ raids are as Rip discussed, bogus now. It was one thing to get zero points for destroying HQ as it is, but to have all of its damage undone by a lowly C47 is just a massive kick in the face. Sure, if its YOUR HQ being shut down, isn't it great that one lone C47 can fix everything? But if you put yourself in the other fellas shoes, its completely different.
I've read that interview and I don't know what the future buff setup is intended to be. I do know that my average buff sortie takes over an hour, a pretty good time investment in doing damage to a base/target. The fighter guys can't get beyond the fact that bombers bomb, and bombs blow stuff up. That's why you don't see many of these furballers in the Combat Theater...fly to target? Are you nuts?
So, the Main Arena has become a furball arena as of late. The Midanao Map crams way too many people into a too small map. AWACS like radar directs the furballers to the fight, and PacMan power-up C47s <walkawalkawalka....> magically undo any damage a full fledged assault like Ripsnort's do.
We've got a nice planeset, I think we need...
1) Bigger Maps, newer maps. Same couple for the past few months is really getting old. Midanao is a tough map for buffs due to its very hilly terrain and eliminates GVs almost entirely.
2) Re-evaluate the amount of C47s/Supples it takes to re-up a base
3) Loose the over-the-horizon radar. Many of these airplanes performed reconnaissance roles (Ar 234, P38, etc etc). Perhaps rely on recon folks for intelligence on bases/activity versus the AWACs Radar.
4) If Radar destroyed at base, loose dot dar AND bar dar. The logic behind bar-radar as eluded me since day 1.
5) re-activate crater damage, run over a crater, damage occurs. Many of the buffs I know are dropping 2k and 4k bombs to level cities. M16s are gleefully driving around them and take no damage for what should be a pretty damn deep hole :)
6) Award perks/partial-perks to those who resupply beyond the first drop. Anyone can make that first supply drop and walk away with many points. How about the folks who drive 8 more trips to fully up the city? Let's give them something for that effort?
Anyways, just a few ideas. The dot-dar is just too convenient all -around. Near the airbase, I see its purpose and that's fine and dandy. But map-wide dot dar? I dunno...
Thanks.
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I like your suggestions BD5. I love all aspects of AH, naval, bomber, fighter, furball, etc. Seems to me there was more balance in versions before V1.08, but hey, I've been wrong in the past...maybe V1.07 was the equivelent of V1.11 in warbirds? who knows.
Westy, thks for the link...interesting reading.
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Thanks Rip
I'm always accused of being a Buff Whiner or, as of lately, getting awarded some moron's Whine of the Week (but look whose awarding it...).
Keep hoping HTC will chime in here and clarify the strat situation.
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The recon thing intrigues me.
It would be awesome to have players do the recon, not the game giving you the info de-facto.
Can HTC code something to the likes of:
-CLIPBOARD info on FIELDS have a "Intel is XX hours, XX minutes old" when you select a particular field to see its info.
-The intel info would be updated when a player's plane makes a successfull recon flight over target and returns to friendly base.
-Recon capable planes (P-38, Arado, etc) would have an extra ordenance loadout : Recon Camera.
-Recon missions would have to get the pilot to fly over the enemy field below 15k alt and use the camera (sec. fire button). Depending on field size, a certain # of shots have to be taken. A large field would need 40 shots, a small field, 20 shots. Plane has to return to base, land successfully for the intel to be fed back into the clipboard..and the pilot get perks for it.
With the upcoming 4 bombers-1 pilot feature which will FINALLY get rid of the moronic laser guidance bombing, it will be necessary to know what got hit. A recon plane does that. Visual confirmation of damage done will be hard for pilots to do, since the field is bound to be full of craters, smoke and enemy fighters upping to bug 'em.
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I like the recon idea too. I was watching Discovery Wings a few evenings ago when they went into great detail about recon birds like the Ar234, P38s and others.
I know I've done a few long distance Arado runs with just full gas and drop tanks (no bombs) just to locate the enemy CV. It usually finds me first, those flak bursts really wake you up!
Every play Warcraft or Comand & Conquer? The "fog of war" where you can only see contacts near you? Something like that would be neat for the clipboard/radar. If there is a recon bird on station, then that aircraft is beaming/reporting activity in that sector/area.
Whatcha think? Recon guys would sure have to be onthe lookout for the 262s and hi alt fighters....might give the Ta-152 a job again!
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My vote is for recon, just have the recon camera plan, and its presence allows "radar" to be active in that sector it occupies, as well as enemy naval detection on clipboard for every one in recon pilots country. This function could last like a "drop tank" activate camera radar turns on till the film runs out. Get perks for the amount of exposed film you died or landed with. All other over the horizon dot radar should be gone. Maybe keep the bar radar, just make it smaller for cod sake. I think bar dar is reasonable, since it is really just recognition of activity, which could be relayed in many ways.