Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on January 16, 2009, 08:30:02 AM
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My personal preference would be for pilot wounds to be modeled differently Because honestly albeit admittedly a bit sarcastically. I've driven a car while under extreme pain on numerous occasions,freshly broken bones in my hand, 2nd and 3rd degree oil burns on my arm, A badly abscessed tooth, and had not suffered as much of a distraction as we see in game.
Distracting? Hell yes! But not so much that I couldnt operate even in rush hour on the NJ Parkway (where your in more danger of getting into an accident at the speed limit then you are doing 100MHP)
My request is to either
A- find a different way to model the pilot wounds
B- Provide the players with the option to turn pilot wounds off, opting instead for instant death.
The way it is modeled now. I'd rather just die outright.
Now someone is going to Im sure mention bailing.
Look at my stats. Im not afraid to bail when I need to.
But Im having more good fights ruined by pilot wounds lately. Then I am finding good fights
Now granted. Many of those fights have been ones I probobly wouldnt have lived anyway.
But this wound followed by near instant total blackout stuff has got to go.
You dont even have a chance to properly disengage. And if your fighting more then one person. Your dead meat anyway.
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But have you ever driven to the hospital with two 20mm rounds in you? Had to jump out of a ditch before the can pops with a broken leg and lacerated arm?
I know, I know, those are extremes....... I feel what your saying but I cant see how that would help you in game......
To top it off with what you said..... "many good fights ruined by a pilot wound." A pilot death would also, and instantly, ruins that same good fight.
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Bail out. .ef
wish granted.
wrongway
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I'd just like there to be a keyboard command that allows you to determine the wound, just like you can determine where your plane is damaged. That, and a meter that tells you how rapidly you're succumbing to your wounds. The current blackout system just doesn't seem to well coded and modeled.
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Hopefully at some point HT can add some variation to the pilot wound scheme so its not seemingly the same one everytime.
Wouldn't it be cool if a hit on the left side of your plane resulted in a wound that simulated a leg injury an hence no left rudder control, or an arm injury that meant no turn to the left, well you get the point.
I fly a KI84 mostly which seems susceptible to pilot wounds and no bailing isn't the point, the point for me is at least add some degree of wound or variations. Its too easy to point your nose to a friendly base and hit auto pilot.
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But Im having more good fights ruined by pilot wounds lately. Then I am finding good fights
I agree with this, though I don't blame the pilot wound for it. Just the other pilots.
But which is more easily adjusted? The pw.
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But have you ever driven to the hospital with two 20mm rounds in you? Had to jump out of a ditch before the can pops with a broken leg and lacerated arm?
I know, I know, those are extremes....... I feel what your saying but I cant see how that would help you in game......
To top it off with what you said..... "many good fights ruined by a pilot wound." A pilot death would also, and instantly, ruins that same good fight.
No way your going to convince me that a wound from even a 20 MM is worse then a severely abscessed tooth.
Ive you've never had one. but have had a tooth ache. Multiply that pain by about a million
An injury is an injury.
We tend to think it may feel worse because of how it happened.
That does not mean in actuality it feels worse because of how it happened. It doesnt.
I've smashed my finger with a 3 pound sledge hammer
And I've had my finger smashed in a car door.
Neither one hurt any worse then the other.
In fact, often the lessor injury is more painful then the larger one.
Ever had a paper cut?
At least with death. The fight is over.
Like I said. I'd rather have the option.
My biggest beef is with the insta total blackout BS.
There have been alot of pilots who have been severely wounded in combat and not gone into a total blackout where they had no Semblance of what they were doing or what was going on around them.
In fact the adrenalin probably prevented it or at least enabled them to fight through the pain.
When Pilot wounds first came out they had a head wobble then backout thing that got progressively worse and the flight went on.
This was by FAR much better then the total darkness we get now.
The wobble probably best replicated whatever initial disorientation you might have. Yet enabled you the opportunity to disenguage.
Now its blam, red on the cockpit, and 3 seconds later, total darkness for 10 seconds.
As GREAT as this game truely is. The PW aspect of is strikes me as nothing less then being done half ssd.
There has GOT to be a better way.
Took more tie to type the search (about 3 seconds)in the google bar then it did to find thew articles
"With a wounded pilot and a damaged plane, Soeriadarma also found himself in deep trouble: » I saw the aircraft of Tinkelenberg and Troost being shot down. We were now the only plane left and the Japanese fighters tried in turns to finish the "kill". We reached sea level so they could not attack as from below. Lukkien was wounded badly and had lost a lot of blood, but he somehow managed to keep the aircraft under control. He had to switch off the left engine because it received a hit and was leaking fuel. Our gunner had managed to hit one of the Zero's and after that they didn't make another attack. We saw them returning towards their base, probably thinking we were finished anyway. I gave Lukkien my first-aid kit and ordered the second pilot to fly the aircraft to the nearest airfield. I repaired our radio and sent an un-decoded message to Samiranda;"watch for enemy fighters". The fact that I transmitted this message un-decoded later gave me some trouble. When we finally reached Mangar airbase "on one engine and a prayer", Lukkien wanted to take control of the aircraft, because our second pilot, sergeant-vlieger Vermey, didn't know how to land the aircraft. Lukkien flew the aircraft straight in, which was a remarkable achievement considering his physical state. After we had landed all crewmembers ran to the cockpit to get the pilot out as quickly as possible. We made sure he was taken to hospital immediately and that probably saved his life. When we visited him that evening he was already feeling better. During the night a KNILM plane took him to Java."
http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/martin/b-10.htm
"Everyone's skills were put to the test in one instance, when the medevac helo pilot was wounded when a bullet ricocheted, impacting his nose.
Despite the wound, the pilot flew the helicopter to the FRSS. Once on the ground everyone rushed to treat the wounded in the back of the helicopter. Yet, nobody had a clue to the casualty in the cockpit.
When the pilot stepped out of the helicopter, "Everyone stops … and stares in disbelief," said Lynn. The pilot "didn't have a face. I don't know how he picked up the wounded; and flew into Al Qa'im.
"The intestinal fortitude of that pilot to fly those wounded while he was (likely) dying was the most amazing thing I'd ever witnessed," said Lynn, "until we got him into surgery!"
Lynn provided fluid resuscitation and was "pushing lots of fluid and blood rapidly" to the patient while assisting anesthesiology with surgery preparations.
Surgery began with putting the patient's face back together.
"If it hadn't been for the surgeon and anesthesiologist, he would have died right then and there," Lynn said. "It was miraculous stuff."
http://www.navy.mil/search/display_word.asp?story_id=34115
Try page 178
http://books.google.com/books?id=mdXgbvn3TDYC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=wounded+pilot+flew&source=web&ots=SyrztFIt0w&sig=DhPHwLeHpnlB9mLd3MBlNCepAno&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=9&ct=result#PPA174,M1
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Now those are some good stories...... In the end, it all comes down to, and not to sound silly, mind of matter. The moment.
Alot of words........
As for your tooth........ I feel your pain. Tooth wise that is, but in general, it all comes down to your ptt, if any.... Most people wouldn't bare a tooth any better then a bullet wound. But what it all comes down to in game, is that there is only 1 type of pilot wound. Your tooth or a 20 mil through the ankle, versus a shoulder (much closer to the heart) is all the difference you need. Foot's more painful sure, but you'll get home. So big deal? Pilot wound makes the game more interesting in my humble opinion (not lazy right now)........
How many good fights are created just because of a PW? You start to black out in a turn fight, what do you do? Do you have any clue? Yeah, me neither.... But darn it, I want to know!!!
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What is the obsession with a 20MM wound here? I'm betting the game almost always just kills you if you are hit anywhere with a 20MM, because anything else would be too hard to model. About 90% of the actual pilot wounds result from 50BMG hits at the most, and usually from shrapnel coming off of a direct hit on the plane, not the pilot. Even a 50 BMG round to an extremity will come close to amputating that extremity, resulting in immediate and complete loss of consciousness.
Hell, fly a P-38 on a regular basis. You can get a pilot wound in it and not even be able to find a hole anywhere in the cockpit! I actually landed a P-38 with a pilot wound, and sat in the plane for 5 minutes, looking around for the hole in the plane in the cockpit. Now, the P-38 is one of the planes with the modern graphics model that is supposed to show the actual damage where the actual strike was.
But I never found a hole, anywhere. None in the canopy, none in the floor, none in the sides, you can even see part of the seat. The only thing I could never actually see is the back of the seat, and the very back of the bottom of the seat. So I guess it had to be there. Problem is that is also where the armor plate is, so whatever hit me had to be very large, and armor piercing. And yet it did not kill me. There was blood on the canopy, of course, but no hole cause by the projectile or shrapnel coming into the plane. I guess it was some of that magic stuff the only leaves a hole in flesh, not in metal or plexiglass.
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Is fading in and out of consciousness what happens when you're wounded by a gunshot or shrapnel? The way it happens in the game it's more like you're extremely tired like those people in the Pepsi commercial they make you watch as a preview at the movies. :P
A gradual fade to dark would be best.
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Bail out. .ef
wish granted.
wrongway
Wrongway has a point. If you hate it so badly, bail out, type .ef and your wish is granted.
-FYB
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Not to change the post subject it got me thinking about how it is applied in differrent vehicles, to exspand to this when in bomber formation, you get a pilot wound shouldn't you still have a pilot wound even if you switch planes, it's the same pilot, when in vehicles you do not get a pilot wound you just die, this may be something to look into.
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Well, I figure they assume the pilot from one plane did not just get up and wing walk over to another plane.
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maybe have it so you get tunnel vision that goes in and out
and the longer you are wounded the smaller the tunnel gets before it opens again
and you die when the tunnel goes fully black and blind
that way you can still fly but it gets harder as your vision gets more narrow with every minute
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I think they should provide bandaids.
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I think for pilot wounds your screen should slowly start turning black, and when it goes all black you can no longer control your plane. You can then either .ef or wait to crash.
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As far as I'm concerned, they could get rid of it. Either your pilot doesn't take damage, or he takes one and bites it. (small "hit bubble" for this though). Would save you fooling around trying to salvage the situation with a wounded pilot.
The nail-polish spill on the inside of the canopy...I"m not saying it bothers me in any real physical way, but when I think about it, its just a little too close to the aspect of combat aviation that I would rather not consider during my entertainment hours.
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Wait until you get a pilot wound in a gv and you have no chance of survival! Yep had that happen.
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No way your going to convince me that a wound from even a 20 MM is worse then a severely abscessed tooth.
I had one once, it nearly made me pass out. The pain was like having a red hot needle stuck in my ear whilst at the same time letting a small man with a big hammer play a tune inside my eye sockets. Ive broken more than 10 bones in my life and nothing as painfulll as the tooth. Being shot with a machine gun or cannon round? You wouldnt feel a thing, the numb shock of it would be all you could sense.
Maybe we could go all Wii Fit on pilot wounds. When you start to black out you have to tap a key repeatedly and quickly enough to stop you blacking out. So If you can keep your right hand flying while your left taps the button quickly you qualify for 'made of strong stuff' pilot status and stop blacking out that time.
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Is fading in and out of consciousness what happens when you're wounded by a gunshot or shrapnel?
rapid blood loss and the effects of shock, quite possibly.
I like the pw effect, gives you half a chance to rtb, the intervals shorten progressively letting you know roughly how long you've got left. helps with immersion too, after successfully landing a beat up aircraft with a pw I usually need a smoke break in the tower to calm down :D
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Wait until you get a pilot wound in a gv and you have no chance of survival! Yep had that happen.
If your in a furball and get a PW you dont have much of a chance for survival either.
LOL In all the time I've spent in GVs over the years. I suffered my first GV pilot wound ever about a month ago.
Not to get off on another topic. But I think tank inhabitants, and tigers in particular are much more likely to receive wounds do to IL2/hurricane gunfire then they are having the tank blow up entirely
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Maybe we could go all Wii Fit on pilot wounds. When you start to black out you have to tap a key repeatedly and quickly enough to stop you blacking out. So If you can keep your right hand flying while your left taps the button quickly you qualify for 'made of strong stuff' pilot status and stop blacking out that time.
This might work.
Would accurately represent the instinct to apply direct pressure to the wound. Leaving you only 1 hand free to control the plane.
Maybe have it tie into and disable trim and rudder or the throttle while you tap.
Anything has to be better then the way it is now.
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I imagine the coders were trying to find a way for a Pilot Wound to motivate the player to exit the fight yet still have a chance at survival.
It would not be right for a wounded pilot to continue to pull 7 G maneuvers nor is it right for every wound to be instantaneously fatal.
And not every wound is the same. I've landed after 12 blackouts and died after 5 blackouts doing the exact same things.
The blackout forces the player to stop fighting so that is a success and you do have a chance to survive the wound so that part works as well.
It may not be perfect but it ain't too bad either.
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Well put, Dawger. Perhaps some of us are overlooking the fact that HTC didnt want us to fly with a pilot wound, but allowed us the chance to RTB. It does make sense. The only thing it lacks is pilot endurance skill, some way of improving the wound status depending on player input would be fun.
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Ok
In the case I resubmit the request to have the option to just get killed outright.
The blackouts come too quickly and too completely to effectively disengage from a fight. Particularly when as is normally the case. Your fighting more then one person.
I still say there HAS to be a better way.
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Ok
In the case I resubmit the request to have the option to just get killed outright.
The blackouts come too quickly and too completely to effectively disengage from a fight. Particularly when as is normally the case. Your fighting more then one person.
I still say there HAS to be a better way.
Enter Enter Enter.
Pilot wound goes away, along with the plane.
Next choice: O or .ef
In your scenario, you're going to die anyway, probably, just a matter of how long you want to prolong it. The discussion on the pilot wound mechanics and ways to improve it are nice. I fail to see what you are wishing for to make game play better for you. You already have the option to use the solution to end your wound misery. Get out of the plane and end flight. .ef, plummet to your death, whatever.
Or is this another one of those veiled wishes.... "I'm pilot wounding other people and the manage to RTB, or worse, shoot me down. I wish they would just die."
wrongway
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Enter Enter Enter.
Or is this another one of those veiled wishes.... "I'm pilot wounding other people and the manage to RTB, or worse, shoot me down. I wish they would just die."
wrongway
Nope. Just want the PW model to be implemented better or the option of not having to deal with it at all.
I was initially strongly in favor of the PW's when they first came out.
Im still not totally against them or I would be requesting they be removed form the game entirely.
Initially when PW's first came out. you would get wounded. and the head (view) would wobble or gyrate around, then eventually you would start to black out.
Now. You get wounded and a few seconds later you just black out.
I much prefer the original model to the current one. The wobble/gyration effect was long enough that it was too disorienting to fight. Yet left you with time enough for instinctive moves to disengage.
As for other pilots. I havent a clue as to if I've wounded them or not. So why would I even make that complaint?
And I dont see why anyone wold have a problem with my if they are going ot stay the way they are. My preferring to have the option of having an instadeath or dealing with the pilot wounds.
Insta death means Im actually willing to give away a kill.
Makes killing me a bit easier some nights. For example a couple of weeks ago I took 7 flights. 5 of them resulted in a PW at which point I just logged off out of disgust.
I think I landed 2 and ditched near my own base once of those.
Under my request people would have been able to collect 3 more kills on me then they had.
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In other words you just don't like being hurt?
Quite the furballer mentality. I've suffered more PWs than most of my squaddies, I'd wager. I've repeatedly made it back over a sector while blacking out left and right and made it down on the runway in between them.
You CAN get back, you just have to stop screwing around in a 10-on-1 furball (whether you're the 10 or the 1) and bug out as fast as you can.
It's not an oil leak. You can't keep fighting "just a few more minutes and I've got him!" you have to break off and run asap.
Just bail. PWs, as annoying as they are, add a much deeper depth to the game than just "alive" and "dead" with nothing in between.
As for your anecdote, it was not a single engined fighter, but a plane with 2 pilots (one to take over) and we have this modeled in bombers as far as I remember. There are many stories also of single engined fighter pilots getting shot in combat and blacking out, recovering barely in time to pull up out of a dive, or recover from a spin, and fighting the loss of blood all the way home. Many stories showed that this happened. I think just removing it because you don't like getting PWed is a bit petty. How's about we remove Hispanos from spitfires? I hate getting hit by those, too! :D
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So If you can keep your right hand flying while your left taps the button quickly you qualify for 'made of strong stuff' pilot status and stop blacking out that time.
...I can't believe the forumites have let a slowball like this one drift on by... :devil
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Now, the P-38 is one of the planes with the modern graphics model that is supposed to show the actual damage where the actual strike was.
I saw a screenshot recently that looked like hit location and bullet holes aren't so exactly matched. It looked like there's a symetrical map of possible damage graphics, and impacts trigger the closest one. I could be wrong... But it's definitely strange to have a totaly shot up plane (B25H in the TA) show completely symetrical damage graphics.
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I saw a screenshot recently that looked like hit location and bullet holes aren't so exactly matched. It looked like there's a symetrical map of possible damage graphics, and impacts trigger the closest one. I could be wrong... But it's definitely strange to have a totaly shot up plane (B25H in the TA) show completely symetrical damage graphics.
Damage graphics are top surfaces of the plane only. Eye candy.
Fly thru enemy ack in the TA for a while. It's shooting up. All the holes should be on the underside. Nothing.....
Also, figure a pilot wound is more than likely shrapnel. Fragments of bullets or cannon shells. If you actually get hit by a round your plane goes boom.
wrongway
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Are you so sure about this?
The 20MM, or even 40MM, fired from the ground is very likely to fully penetrate, leaving holes on the top as well. Especially on the wings or control surfaces, as well as hollow areas of the fuselage.
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Are you so sure about this?
The 20MM, or even 40MM, fired from the ground is very likely to fully penetrate, leaving holes on the top as well. Especially on the wings or control surfaces, as well as hollow areas of the fuselage.
Except for the "new" damage model graphics, where you have a tattered up elevator or aileron, there are no damage graphics on the underside of the planes.
wrongway
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My personal preference would be for pilot wounds to be modeled differently Because honestly albeit admittedly a bit sarcastically. I've driven a car while under extreme pain on numerous occasions,freshly broken bones in my hand, 2nd and 3rd degree oil burns on my arm, A badly abscessed tooth, and had not suffered as much of a distraction as we see in game.
Distracting? Hell yes! But not so much that I couldnt operate even in rush hour on the NJ Parkway (where your in more danger of getting into an accident at the speed limit then you are doing 100MHP)
My request is to either
A- find a different way to model the pilot wounds
B- Provide the players with the option to turn pilot wounds off, opting instead for instant death.
The way it is modeled now. I'd rather just die outright.
Now someone is going to Im sure mention bailing.
Look at my stats. Im not afraid to bail when I need to.
But Im having more good fights ruined by pilot wounds lately. Then I am finding good fights
Now granted. Many of those fights have been ones I probobly wouldnt have lived anyway.
But this wound followed by near instant total blackout stuff has got to go.
You dont even have a chance to properly disengage. And if your fighting more then one person. Your dead meat anyway.
The injuries in your comparisons are quite painful, but I don't think they're the same type depicted in AH where you're bleeding out, (I've been there though: pale as a ghost, loosing your sence of direction and up and down while just sitting in place on your rump, can't remember what you were thinking of 5 seconds ago, teetering between completely passing out or going into shock). I believe that the game is not trying to simulate the pain, but rather the loss of blood from your injury by having you black in and out.
Personaly I'm not a fan of the current way it's done in AH either. I've never had an injury where you're in and out of blacking out, especialy imediatley after being wounded.
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Except for the "new" damage model graphics, where you have a tattered up elevator or aileron, there are no damage graphics on the underside of the planes.
wrongway
There while its another subject entirely is something that could use upgrading.
some of the best damage model graphics in a WWII sime I've seen is in an old game called
"B-17 Flying Fortress: The Mighty 8th"
(http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/gs/simulation/b17/b17ects_screen007.jpg)
(http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/gs/simulation/b17/b17_screen008.jpg)
These shots are only mediocre.
I'll see if I can reinstall the game and take some screenies myself.
Older game but fantastic graphics.
Other screen shots can be found here
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/b17flyingfortressthem8/images.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=gsimage&tag=images;img;3
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[DAMAGE MODEL HIJACK OVER]
Last night, diving in to save a countryman, in my F4U-1A, I got PW'd, killed the aggressor, and had to do a fighting egress back to the cv.... It was absolutely the best 5-7 minutes of the evening.
PW's give you a different sense of urgency in the game and I would hate to see it diminished.
:rock
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[DAMAGE MODEL HIJACK OVER]
Last night, diving in to save a countryman, in my F4U-1A, I got PW'd, killed the aggressor, and had to do a fighting egress back to the cv.... It was absolutely the best 5-7 minutes of the evening.
PW's give you a different sense of urgency in the game and I would hate to see it diminished.
:rock
This response probably is going to sound alot more sarcastic then its intended
Fine. and one of the reasons I asked for an option as opposed to having it removed from the game entirely
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I know Dred. He's not looking for a crutch, or an out, he's looking for a better way of doing it. And I agree.
The reason I suggested a "control+D" for the pilot is that you could have a decent idea as to how bad you were hurt. What we have now is a goofy system that is far too difficult to judge. You really can't tell how bad you're injured.
I've had two or three blackouts, a decent interval apart, followed by a longer interval, followed by an immediate blackout and death. And all sorts of other variations. I've had times where I got the impression, from the spacing and length of the blackouts, that death was imminent, and lived for a long time. I've had times where the same factors lead me to believe I'm not too badly hurt, and been dead 30 seconds later.
If the pilot "damage model" is detailed enough for it to determine how often you'll black out, for how long, and how long you'll live, then it's detailed enough to show us how bad we're hurt. If the pilot damage model is random, then it needs to be fixed or tossed out. In other words, if I can hit "control+D" and see how fast I'm losing what, and where, then I should be able to hit "control+I" (or substitute the appropriate unassigned key) and see what part or parts of me has a hole, or holes, in it, and how big the holes are.
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Personally, I think the damage model for pilot wounds needs more "options". We have 1 now. You are wounded and losing blood. You pass at with more frequency until you finally bleed to death. How about if it wasn't that way for EVERY pilot wound. Perhaps you get shot in the right foot and can no longer use that foot on the rudder pedals or something similar.