Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ripsnort on November 28, 2001, 07:55:00 AM
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?????
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I thought that it took 7 goons to rebuild HQ.
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I sat next to HQ and watched a single C47 rebuild it.
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Because it's a conspiracy between Laz and Hitech; the point being to illustrate to the buff dweebs what it's like to have your fun ruined by one attention starved individual.
Waaaah! He rebuilt the FH's and ruined our Fluffball!
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Seeker, I'm sure your mother told you this: If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, then don't say it at all.
Thank you.
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If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, then don't say it at all.
Thank you.
I believe it was Thumper's Mother in the movie "Bambi" who said: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" :)
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Apologies, I was short a cup of coffee this morning, I'm feeling better now. :D
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It's a vaild point, Rip, albeit couched in inflammaroty terms.
What the Buffers and Mission planners are complaining about is an exact analogue of what Laz says, while most deride him for saying it.
One guy screwing up the fun for many.
(You don't have to apologise for being "short", you're usualy the most rational of posters).
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Originally posted by Seeker:
What the Buffers and Mission planners are complaining about is an exact analogue of what Laz says, while most deride him for saying it.
I don't agree. What the buffers and planners are saying is that the resupply system is not set to reasonable levels. Rip did not say that the C47 should not be allowed to rebuild the HQ, just that it did not take a reasonable amount of time/supplies to rebuild it compared to the current town rebuild settings.
What lazs keeps saying is that anyone who ruins his fun (or tries to play in a way he doesn't like) should not be allowed in the game at all.
Two completely different arguments IMO.
The buffers, while complaining, are doing it to get a reasonable compromise. Lazs is just trying to force people to play the game the way he wants by insulting and attacking them at every opportunity. Lazs gets derision not because of his opinion (well maybe that is a part of it) but because he invites it with his manner of presenting it.
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Hi All,
I think a single supply crate should be given a specific value relating to an "Ordinance" rating. For example say 1 drop equals 1 3000lb bomb. Then allow repairs to be made accordingly so in this example 7 goons would be required to repair the HQ, 1 for a single FH, 1 drop would repair 12 City Buildings etc.
That way the effort required to destroy the object is related to the effort required to rebuild it.
Stupid Idea?? OK
TTFN
snafu
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Nope, pretty rational.
What's the specs on the C47 gooney we have? Just how much could it carry? The current models are clearly carrying more than the average Home Depot has in its multi-acre stores! :D
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C-47A
Empty Weight: 17,865 lb- 33,000 pounds gross weight
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Yesterday we employed 3 Lancs to destroy totally the knight QH, 5 minutes later the HQ was fully restored and the 3 lancs shot down... ...anti-hq missions has no sense now :(
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Mandoble, that is precisely what Ripsnort is saying.
Hopefully HTC is listening to this thread. :)
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Hi All,
After reading the changes to the supply in the latest patch (One crate instead of many) I think the proportional supply based on an ordinance rating sounds even better. As the goon or whatever will now only have one parcel you could choose what you re supply by dropping on/next to a target. Dropping next to FH would repair 1 FH, Dropping next to fuel would do 3,000lb's (In the example above) worth of repair to any destroyed fuel dumps. I would still like to see trains/truck having to be manned (In a gun position) to run. using AI to re supply bases is another major issue IMO.
TTFN
snafu
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Alittle off topic of the HQ debacle, but thats exactly how it should work Snafu, IMO. You could group the AMMO, the FUEL, the BARRACKS, the HANGARS, do it by priority (Obviously fuel would be first?)so it could be something like this:
1st goon rebuilds FUEL (landed at field)
1st goon rebuilds VH (Landed at VH,and deployed there)
2nd goon rebuilds AA/Radar (landed at field)
3rd goon rebuilds FH's (landed at field)
4th goon rebuilds AMMO/BH's (landed at field)
5th goon rebuilds BARRACKS (landed at field)
and the standard 7 goons landed at local town for rebuild of the town.
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Originally posted by snafu:
I would still like to see trains/truck having to be manned (In a gun position) to run. using AI to re supply bases is another major issue IMO.
TTFN
snafu
The problem with the trains and convoys is they run continuously, whether the base is damaged or not. This means that the length of time a base stays damaged depends on how close the convoy is when the damage is done.
So for example, if a hangar is destroyed and the convoy is only 2 minutes away from driving into the city, that hangar is only going to be down for 2 minutes.
Also if you want to destroy convoys to prevent base resupply, you have to do it "'round the clock" since they will spawn again 5 minutes after you destroy them.
Player manned trains and convoys would be one solution. Another would be to have the AI start the train or convoy only AFTER the strat or field target has been damaged, rather than run continuously. That way there would be a set time the damage would last.
As far as AI vs Player re-supply goes, I think it should be one or the other, not both.
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Cuba, I believe you can destroy the train depot where the train spawns from, again, this type of multiple target, inter-linked strat system would take alot of country cooperation, imperative timing, and some luck thrown in.
Another concern of mine is, should one destroy the train depot, I have no doubt that the train that is active would continue to resupply, so one would also have to destroy the train after they destroyed the train depot.
What would be REALLY sweet is the ability to destroy the train tracks, thus disabling the train from delivering its load, give the track a 15-30 min rebuild time.
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Originally posted by Seeker:
Because it's a conspiracy between Laz and Hitech; the point being to illustrate to the buff dweebs what it's like to have your fun ruined by one attention starved individual.
Waaaah! He rebuilt the FH's and ruined our Fluffball!
he may be right :p
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Originally posted by Don:
I believe it was Thumper's Mother in the movie "Bambi" who said: "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" :)
ROFLMAO. Thumper was the best, and he had the coolest mom. But why did she teach him the afformentioned rule, and how to skate really well, and yet he didnt know the difference between a deer and a flower or a bird? Stupid rabbit.
:mad:
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Ahh, this is frustrating HiTech! Used to be a fun, daring part of the game! Now its a mission thats fruitless!
Took down the enemy city to 25% with a simotaneously City/HQ raid...HQ destroyed and moments later rebuilt by a single C47 :(
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I agree completely, I was in the mission yesterday and 5 Lancs headed out there and 3 made it to target. We devestated the target after taking a lot of damage from enemy fighters. Its disappointing to survive such an incredible trek only to see all of our damage undone by one lowly Gooney.
<Shrug>
The strat system needs a bit of review. Please.
[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: LePaul ]
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Ahh, this is frustrating HiTech! Used to be a fun, daring part of the game! Now its a mission thats fruitless!
Took down the enemy city to 25% with a simotaneously City/HQ raid...HQ destroyed and moments later rebuilt by a single C47 :(
I may be wrong, but if you're talking about the mission you & I were discussing, we sent 7 goons, 8 to be more precise.
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Well, you only needed one Apache! See the lead post in this thread...
Edit: Actually the 3rd post down. That was from a couple weeks ago.
[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
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it rebuilt with one though apache...i was one of them goons
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Getting old so I'm allowed to repeat my story.
AI is too gamey and not realistic.Trains and convoys should have a person drive them.If some one takes it down,a person should have to rebuild it.
Rebuilding effort should at least equate with the effort used to take it down.
The same thing with CVs.You can kill them but you can't hurt them.They are either 100% or dead.
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Originally posted by pimpjoe:
it rebuilt with one though apache...i was one of them goons
Really? That does suck then.
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There are a couple of problems to work through on this topic though. Right now attacking strat targets is just as useless as defending them. Why defend when you can fly a C47 in to repair them as soon as the bombs have landed.
Any solution would have to take into account the increased damage that could be done to a country that is without dar. With the huge numbers of people in the MA these days the effects of only a 1 hour dar outage might end in a reset. It should also take into account the reasonable effect that only a couple of people could have on the MA. 2 bombers @30K shouldn't be able to take the dar out at a country for an hour.
To start with though I don't think it should be possible to resupply any high level strat target manually. No C47/M3 runs to Cities, HQ's, refinerys, etc. That way the train and convoy system could start to be relied on a bit and make it more valuable. Leave manually resupply for airfields, depots, towns and vehicle bases as it is, just disable it for the strat targets.
At least that would give a starting point and also make it possible to take the dar out for more than 5 minutes (by taking out the train depot along with the strat target).
Just my thoughts.... I'm not a bomber guy by trade, but I can understand their frustration.
-Soda
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Ahh, this is frustrating HiTech! Used to be a fun, daring part of the game! Now its a mission thats fruitless!
Took down the enemy city to 25% with a simotaneously City/HQ raid...HQ destroyed and moments later rebuilt by a single C47
Hmmm I was over our HQ right after the raid (Rooks) Our side sent about 7 to 8 gooneys in to fix the place within 10 minutes of its destruction. Rip, I did not see you there at all, in fact I was one of the first a/c on the scene, there were several of our fiters who came along within minutes of me. Our goons came in soon after that and the HQ radar was up again and operating. It could have been one goon which fixed the place or, it could have been more of them, that I don't know. It has been my assumption that the last patch fixed the resupply problem and have been going on faith that it did.
If it is broken then I agree, it oughta be fixed. Nonetheless, we sent over 7 gooneys to fix the place, and our guys got there in damn good time. From my perspective, it was an honest effort.
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I think we should drop 1 crate and 5 CeeBee's. Whichever building they land closest to is the one they start working on.
Make it so that CeeBee's do 4% repair a minute each. If all five live, then a completely destroyed building will be at 100% in five minutes, if four live it takes 6 min and so on.
The rates could be increased/decreased to adjust length of time to rebuild that suits the arena most.
F.
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I sort of like some of these ideas :)
I think two things are evident:
Once the crates are dropped, or the train pulls into the station the buildings STILL come back too fast.
Interdiction of supplies needs to be more 'predicatable' (read as 'preventable')
Back in (cough) that other game they had options for what cargo you were bringing to a field. You could fly in fuel, ammo or cargo (Cargo simply repaired buildings)
And while they did have the concept of auto-resupply of fields, where the fields got resupplied by drones (gooneys in this case) the drones didn't start heading out until the target was damaged.
So we could have the trains only leave a depot when a field was damaged, but I worry this will take far too long. If the trip from a depot only takes 30 minutes, then I'd say this is okay. But anything more...
Also, it's not quite right that fields / HQ come up instantly when supplies are dropped. So here's an alternate:
All fields have 'supplies' of 100% (based on the health of the town AND outlying warehouses (new structure, these are placed around a field / HQ just like towns)
Regrow rate is set to 15 minutes * the supplies on hand. Dropping supplies
a) regrows the town / warehouses instantly
b) allows for EXTRA supplies to be built up (max 400%) and extra warehouses appear.
c) These warehouses CAN be bombed reducing the extra supplies on hand.
d) Extra supplies get used up to repair damage until the 100% base is reached. Supplies never go below 100% when used to build stuff.
e) Extra supplies get used up over time (this means keeping a field over supplied takes constant work)
And you'll note, having 400% supplies only means the field will regrow in 4 minutes.
(and it'll use up some of these supplies in the process )
And it gives the attackers a chance to kill the warehouses and slow down the building process.
But it also gives the defenders a chance to 'shore up' a field if they know it's going to be attacked soon.
Mind you, to balance this out, convoys should carry more than 100% supplies.
When the train pulls in the station, expect the field supplies to be bumped to 200%
This gives the attackers only about 7 minutes to take out the town / supplies before the field grows back and the supplies are back at their default 100%
And if the town / supply warehouse can be completely destoyed (and kept that way) the field will *never* repair.
Just a thought.
~Lemur
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As a 'quick fix' for the HQ resupply thing, I suggest allowing the first goon in to bring back the radar sector counters. After that, it could require 6 more goons to get the radar completely back up. This idea isn't a real solution to the problem, merely a way to 'fix' it until HT has time to churn out a more complete one.
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Originally posted by Furious:
I think we should drop 1 crate and 5 CeeBee's. Whichever building they land closest to is the one they start working on.
Make it so that CeeBee's do 4% repair a minute each. If all five live, then a completely destroyed building will be at 100% in five minutes, if four live it takes 6 min and so on.
The rates could be increased/decreased to adjust length of time to rebuild that suits the arena most.
F.
make em SeaBees and I second the idea :)
(http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/personnel/seabees/seabee2.gif)
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IMO a good solution would be to have AI builders run around the site being rebuilt instead of instant rebuild after supply drop. Thus we should try to destroy those builders (men or machines) before they do their job... or try to protect them and give them time to rebuild!!!
Each building would take a certain time to get finished. More supply drops would only increase the amount of builders and therefore shorten the rebuild time.
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IMO a good solution would be to have AI builders run around the site being rebuilt instead of instant rebuild after supply drop. Thus we should try to destroy those builders (men or machines) before they do their job... or try to protect them and give them time to rebuild!!!
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And then we could jump out of our aircraft using our anti-grav-boots and shoot all the workers with our plasma guns while they were repairing the VH's and FH's. And we could add a weapon called the dominator which has a really cool controllable missile...and.. and we could add shield armor and super charges, and mines and sniper rifles with 32x zoom..wow..
..or we could just keep playing AH instead of Quake