Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BigJim on December 02, 2001, 01:53:00 PM
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With all the new players and so many on now I think that Kill Shooter needs to be changed to NO Shooter, i.e. you cannot damage friendlys in the game.
The other night flying in the main I dueled a guy for 10 minutes before getting on his six for the kill shot, just as I pull the trigger some guy dives in from no where right in front of my guns and bang I am dead because HE wants to steal my kill.
I don't think it is always someone trying to steal the kill but it does happen alot now and I think maybe it is time to change it.
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yep
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With NO shooter that guy will just sit on YOUR 6 and spray like a mother until he kills your target.
You wouldnt like to see a trail of 8 cons behind you, each from d300 to d800 firing like crazy at you. The wall of lead would only hit YOU and not them. Now wouldnt that be nice?
However, if HTC can code it, I think the killshooter should be disabled if the planes are inside d500 of each other, and enabled if they are beyond d500.
Example: Green1 is on the tail of red1. Distance is d400. Green1 is shooting away and missing. Then out of the blue comes green2, sits on the tail of green1 at a distance of d600 from red1.. and starts shooting. One of those shots hits green1. Green2 gets hit by killshooter.
However, if green2 jumps in FRONT of green1 to steal the kill and flies into the bullet path of green1, then green2 gets the damage just as if he was being shot at by an enemy. Why? It HIS fault he's flying into green1's guns when green1 is so close to your target.
Now, this would pose the only problem of people getting behind cons when both green's are inside d500.
Well, I dont know about you, but if I get inside d500 and I dont manage to kill the con before someone ELSE closes in on the con and shoots it down, i'd say I had my fair chance at getting the kill. If the other guy is dumb enough to fly in front of you he dies. If he gets behind you and still inside d500 of the con and fires away hitting you, then it would be MY fault since its taking so damn long.
From my experience, very few people have actually sat on my 6, inside d500 of my con and fired away with or without killshooter.
For this, people should LOSE 2 perks every time they shoot down a friendly plane.
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Tac is right.
Leave the kill shooter untouched.
Shooting down a con should be a question of skill.
Especially in the crowded MA it should not depend on ammoload and gun range..
Tofri
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perhaps a slight adjustment?
killshooter causes damage but no loss of wings or tail.Engine damage loss of a few control surfaces is adequate punishment for those that dont consider others and for those that it happens to accidently at least get the chance to rtb.
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Now that is a shreckin good idea Hazed.
I cant count the number of times I've been zoomed in to straff a ground target and some numtpy has flown through my bullet stream.....and I've shot my own tail off.
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
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I just want to know why kill shooter seems to dole out 10X damage of when shooting an enemy.
I hit a friendly plane with maybe 10 rounds and my whole fuggin tail came off. Wish my .50s had that much punch when shooting the enemy :(
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Yep I have also noticed killshooter is not proportinal in damage. Sometimes I just land 1 20mm hi on a guy and my whole rear fuselage falls off. Sometimes I hit guy in the wing and my fuselage also falls off.
I agree with hazed killshooter should disable you not kill you outright as long as you dont fire too much.
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Some good ideas here, in my case I had not squeezed the tirgger as I was flying a P51 and wanted that 300 yrd kill shot. Just as I pulled the trigger in swooped this N1K1 and bang I was down. Now for him to have over taken my 51 he had to be high and must have seen the situation????
Anyhow thanks for all the feed back guys.
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Originally posted by BigJim:
The other night flying in the main I dueled a guy for 10 minutes before getting on his six for the kill shot, just as I pull the trigger some guy dives in from no where right in front of my guns and bang I am dead because HE wants to steal my kill.
Last night I was chasing a Stang and was at 400 yds and closing when someone in a Typhoon joined in. Just watched the film and it showed that, although I was clearly in control of the fight and the end would come soon, the Tiffy decided he couldn't wait for a clear shot. The film shows him floating to the ground with no tail section at all :D
The Stang was dead 5 seconds later by my guns.
Killshooter works just fine IMO.
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I think this would be appropriate for killshooter, it would address the accidental KS and the ones that just sit behind you and try to spray through you. You get a certain number of strikes on any friendlies per sortie before the KS penalty kicks in. The penalty is your active gun set gets "jammed" (red in the damage list). So if you're firing with your primaries and the KS goes off, you lose your primaries. If you're firing with all guns, you lose all guns. That way you have a perfectly flyable plane to RTB for those that play that way, yet you're either at a firepower disadvantage (if you were only firing with one bank of guns in planes that have two banks) or you're out of the fight if all your guns are now disarmed. Make the number of strikes large enough that one or two accidental bursts won't activate KS penalties. That'd still punish the spray n pray people behind you, but give you a chance if you accidentally ping someone when they jump in front of you. In any case, it doesn't knock you out of the sky for an accidental ping.
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Heyas,
I am always a fan of as close to reality the better. So I am not a fan of the killshooter at all.
I think the guy on the other end of the bullet stream should always be the guy to loose his tailfeathers. I know borrowing ideas from AW isn't very popular right now but the idea of giving somebody PNG status (persona non-grata) IE. taking away his ability to carry ammo for an hour if he kills a friendly or two would probably be a more realistic if not a great deterent for flying in front of friendly guns or trying to steal kills. Besides, it would give incentive to fly goons for resupply if you were PNG. Sounds like Military justice to me.
What do ya think??
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I like the idea F4UDOA. The problem with current killshooter is that it penalizes the VICTIM rather than the person committing the killshooting.
Aka, you shoot, some moron flies in front of you to steal the kill and you killshoot yourself.
I know this is the least grief-causing solution so far. Beats greens shooting greens.
However, I wonder if it would be better if BOTH planes went down? Im sure the enemy con would get a good laugh at seeing his 2 persuers blow up. *G*. That way neither of the 2 people involved in a killshoot situation would be able to take advantage of it to steal a kill.
Add AW's penalty IF a player killshoots more than twice an hour. Make them fly C202's , Ju88's and C-47 for the next 2 hours as penalty. No other planes, vehicles or manned positions would be avaliable to him. Not even as a gunner.
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Originally posted by 38:
Add AW's penalty IF a player killshoots more than twice an hour. Make them fly C202's , Ju88's and C-47 for the next 2 hours as penalty. No other planes, vehicles or manned positions would be avaliable to him. Not even as a gunner.
Could you imagine the uproar if this was the way it was and someone fragged a countrymates 262 at spawn? The problem AW had w/ the PNG thing was that in 1 sorty you could frag a watermelon load of people befor running out of ammo. Unfortunatly, there are some people here who would no doubt do this at the end of their flying day all too often.
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Not if a friendly kill shut your guns off or cost you the perk points for A/C lost.
In other words if you shoot your buddy in his ME 262 you loose the 200 perkies and you guns don't work.
You can take the situation and reverse it. Now with the killshooter turned on someone could fly in front of your 262 and you shoot him and loose your own points.
I will always go for the side of realism and the "killshooter" isn't in the realm of realism.
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Let it alone. It's annoying, but not near as annoying as it would be if killshooter was off.
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IMO Killshooter is a necessary evil. Back in the days of AW DOS (the "grandfather of flight sims") there was no killshooter. Pilits would shoot teamates and countrymen down regularly. It was fun at times, and to a certain extent, it would discourage kill stealers. But many didn't care for it because it affected their K/D's, an important point which seemed to lead to some form of killshooter. Don't forget, HT and Pyro are former AW pilits, and perhaps some of their experiences and observations there, have formed their concept of our current flight combat sim here.
I don't care for kill stealers, and I feel badly when I do it myself :rolleyes:
I don't intentionally do it but, it happens.
In the MA, there will always be the kill stealers, and if they try and are behind someone, they will pay a price for their greed. The downside is, when they have more E and dive down to steal yer hard earned kill, and you fire and die because of them. Because it is the MA, the odds are that it will happen to them too :) This is why I like scenarios. The kill stealer doesn't do well in them because he/she will stick out like a sore thumb because there is a greater sense of teamwork than they are accustomed to.
In the MA its every man/woman for himself/herself. Its a tough place but fun most times. Either deal with it or, don't fly there.
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In reference to the original start to this thread on killshooter damage I've noticed that when I've accidently pinged someone who pops in between my target and I my damage ranges from merely hearing a ping on myself to actual serious damage.
I seriously think the damage applied to yourself from a KS is identical to whatever the actual damage would have been if you'd been shooting an nme rather than a countryman.
So if you barely pinged the plane in front of you then you are barely pinged but (as in most cases it seems) if the plane moved right through your convergence then you just tore a huge chunk outa your own plane.
Not 100% sure thats how it works but thats how it seems to happen to me :)
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In reference to the original start to this thread on killshooter damage I've noticed that when I've accidently pinged someone who pops in between my target and I my damage ranges from merely hearing a ping on myself to actual serious damage.
Actually Awulf,BigJim starts this thread with the idea of there being a no-shooter instead of what is in play now. :)
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Turn off killshooter completely. Let greens kill greens...so what. Annoying? Sure, can be, but the perp won't do it for long.
Besides, as has been rammed down my throat by all the nay sayers when I say something like this...."waaaaaaaa...you'll just have to suck it up and get used to it" ;-P
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Back in the day in "that other game" they allowed fragging your own teammates or the current system that AH uses as a selectable setting.
So what was there to protect people from teamkillers?
Simple, after x amount of teamkills you were declared 'persona non grata'. You got no ammo or bombs for a set period of time (I think it was a few hours) and you were basically stuck on decoy / gooney duty for the next few hours.
The nice part: If you did accidentally ping a friendly you made DAMN sure he landed safely. If he crashed before someone else damaged him you'd get credit for the kill, and that'd count towards your PNG total.
I honestly don't know if this will work in AH. But a combination of this, lost perks, and maybe a 'ban' feature would help.
Say the first 2 kills in a 24 hour period = loss of perks.
3rd kill causes PNG status for an hour of playing (or 12 hours if you aren't logged on)
Subsequent kills add an hour or more (12 hours) per kill.
And finally add a .forgive [player] so people can forgive those who've trespassed against them.
So if 'Joe Teamkiller' goes on a friendly shooting spree and kills 4 guys he looses perks and is denied ammo for 2 hours (or 24 hours if he's not logged in.)
But if 'Joe wingie' kills you by accident you have the option of saying '.forgive joe' and he suffers no ill effects (or maybe he just looses the perks)
~Lemur
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Actually, that sounds like an interesting idea. But alas, if you are allowed those one or two relative "freebies" on your countrymen, you hop sides, go on a mission and at the last second, you wax the goon. Sure would have a lot of folks really mad at you.
I dunno, I think we'd certainly see a spate of same team killing going on, but just like everything in this game, it all eventually drops off to a dull roar. But then again, there are those times when someone on your own side does something so heinous you really want to light them up ;-)
My main concern is with the kill stealers. I try hard to conserve ammo and nothing yanks my crank more than knocking the tail off a spit and then have some dork-o-matic follow it down shooting all the way just to get the kill. Or to have someone butt in front of you when you're d300 on a con's tail and end up killing yourself because of killshooter. lately I've taken to shooting cons to the point they explode (if I am able). Sucks not being able to get more than a few kills per sortie this way though....
Personally, I'm willing to take the chance of getting wasted by my own team members just to have a recourse for the above scenarios.
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What about this:
First ks ping has no effect, second ks ping and shooting plane looses 25% of its ammo. Third ks ping, shooting plane looses 50% of its remaining ammo. Fourth ks ping, shooting plane looses 90% of its remaining ammo. Any more than 4 ks pings and shooting plane pilot gets wounded so he must return quickly to a friendly base.