Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Spikes on January 25, 2009, 01:49:43 PM
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This thing is a beast!!!
Might be my new favorite Furballing bird for a while. Took it up for the hell of it, nothing better to do Friday night. Ended up going home with no damage and 13 clean kills. I've never flown it either. I forgot what base it was but I was on the deck turn fighting. I was outturning Spit 16's with no flaps down, running down La7's, etc. I absolutely love the 20mm nose cannons. Are the ballistics any good on them? Or was I just lucky? They seemed to be able to tear any plane to pieces with a few rounds. I couldn't tell if the 50cals were doing any help to me, but I didn't spend more than 3 seconds on a plane before ripping him to pieces.
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Its 20mm have good damage, but a slow re=ate of fire and slow ballistics. Get in close with them and they're lethal. :)
You also have to try a good long dive with it. It'll stay with a P-47 if they start the dive co-alt and about co-E.
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Its 20mm have good damage, but a slow re=ate of fire and slow ballistics. Get in close with them and they're lethal. :)
You also have to try a good long dive with it. It'll stay with a P-47 if they start the dive co-alt and about co-E.
Yeah, I did notice and I tried to wait till D400 out before firing. Don't see how they have a slow ROF, they seem to fire pretty quick.
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Go into a few fights with just teh cannons, not the MGs. You can almost watch every individual round fire. Typical Japanese galf-ball launcher. :)
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I was outturning Spit 16's with no flaps down, running down La7's, etc. I absolutely love the 20mm nose cannons. Are the ballistics any good on them? Or was I just lucky? They seemed to be able to tear any plane to pieces with a few rounds. I couldn't tell if the 50cals were doing any help to me, but I didn't spend more than 3 seconds on a plane before ripping him to pieces.
You need a cold shower, or your opponents were absolute n00bs.
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You need a cold shower, or your opponents were absolute n00bs.
Meaning they would turn into me and I would out turn them, or beat them in a couple turns. Out-running LA7's coming off the deck, but still relatively fast IMHO.
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The Ki-61 is a good mid-war plane. It's not fast, and it's not as nimble as a Spitfire. Surprisingly, one if its best qualities is energy retention after a dive.
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The Ki-61 is a good mid-war plane. It's not fast, and it's not as nimble as a Spitfire. Surprisingly, one if its best qualities is energy retention after a dive.
I'll have to try it in Mid War. I take it it's pretty obsolete in Late War then? Regardless it's a fun little plane that everyone should try. I suck and I got 13 kills in it on my first try. :rofl
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I wouldn't call it obsolete, not by a long shot. A good pilot should be able to do quite well with it, as evidence by its high K/D ratio in the lwma.
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I wouldn't call it obsolete, not by a long shot. A good pilot should be able to do quite well with it, as evidence by its high K/D ratio in the lwma.
Yeah, true. I know Karaya flies it a lot. I have to find some data on it soon. Anyone have the link to Soda's page?
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I fly it a lot when its available in the AvA, but I get sick of trying to run down LAs and P-51s in it in the MA. Plus when I get a ricer fancy in the MA, I usually grab me an A6M-5.
Doesn't help that I fly it like a 109 that can dive and turn a bit better...
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It has nose mounted cannon firepower, is a steady gun platform, good views, and as has been pointed, can dive and retain energy. It doesn't turn as well as it should but can still out-turn a lot.
Widewing has pointed out on numerous occasions that this bird has a light wingloading that would seem to indicate it should be turning better than it does in game, and that war-time tests bear this out, showing it to have a turning capacity similar to that of an FM2. Like the Pony, the Ki-61 seems to have a bug in the modeling somewhere. I predict that if this ever fixed the Ki-61 will become quite the nice ride and maybe even popular.
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Its 20mm have good damage, but a slow re=ate of fire and slow ballistics. Get in close with them and they're lethal. :)
You also have to try a good long dive with it. It'll stay with a P-47 if they start the dive co-alt and about co-E.
Huh? They are the fastest firing cannons (cyclic rate) in the game. The Niki's are slow. Close? The majority of my "kills" are from about 400. They DO NOT have the characteristics of a Luftwaffe cannon.
You need a cold shower, or your opponents were absolute n00bs.
I'll turn with a Spit 16 all day long in a Ki-61 (and no "angles" BS either). I RARELY use flaps in this game. Hell, ask AKDogg what a Tony is capable of, Simaril, Helm, Goth, HtHide, and others who actually "fly" the virtual aircraft a lot. It is by far, the most underestimated craft in the entire plane set.
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Huh? They are the fastest firing cannons (cyclic rate) in the game. The Niki's are slow. Close? The majority of my "kills" are from about 400. They DO NOT have the characteristics of a Luftwaffe cannon.
I'll turn with a Spit 16 all day long in a Ki-61 (and no "angles" BS either). I RARELY use flaps in this game. Hell, ask AKDogg what a Tony is capable of, Simaril, Helm, Goth, HtHide, and others who actually "fly" the virtual aircraft a lot. It is by far, the most underestimated craft in the entire plane set.
Some American pilots considered it more dangerous than any variation on the Zero.
According to DokGonzo's, the Ki-61's turn radius is indeed inferior to the Spit16's but not greatly inferior, and considering that its flaps are more useful..
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Flaps don't improve the Ki-61's turn performance.
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Flaps don't improve the Ki-61's turn performance.
They might not help the rate of turn but unless the chart is out and out lying they improve the turn radius.
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Correct, and the turn-rate decreases. If the Ki-61 had better thrust-drag then things might be otherwise.
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Fine, I recall that it has the same sort of bug as the P-51. Anyway, we can be glad it doesn't have the FM2 like turning of the original, 'cause that would be scary. :confused:
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Flaps don't improve the Ki-61's turn performance.
I realize I am a "crappy sim pile-it", but I prefer to know the Ki-61 inside and out. I do.
I'll refrain from posting in this thread anymore. I just wish some "experts" would stop trying to misinform people and perspective newcomers. This is the thing that bothers me most.
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lol Karaya. I've tested its turn performance with a stop watch with different flap settings, and those are the results I achieved. If you have done likewise and have different results, then please post them for my edification.
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I realize I am a "crappy sim pile-it", but I prefer to know the Ki-61 inside and out. I do.
I'll refrain from posting in this thread anymore. I just wish some "experts" would stop trying to misinform people and perspective newcomers. This is the thing that bothers me most.
First and last time I flew it serious was in frame 1 of FSO-Back to Tokyo. I was green as a frog back then. My squad got bounced by superior numbers of Corsairs and Hellcats.
I RTB'ed with two Corsair kills.
Then re-armed and "tragically crashed" because I was tired, forgot to stow the flaps before takeoff, and hit alt-x... :cry :D
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lol Karaya. I've tested its turn performance with a stop watch with different flap settings, and those are the results I achieved. If you have done likewise and have different results, then please post them for my edification.
It's not worth the time. I've flown it a helluva lot more than most in this game (including yourself). I KNOW what this plane can and can't do. Spit 16's are easy meat against the Ki61. Throw in the Spit 1 - 8 and you have to favor the Spit (pilot dependent). Again, refer to folks listed in my first post.
Stop watch? :rofl Means nothing to me, but I commend your effort (Again, I don't use flaps in 99% of the craft I fly, so this doesn't apply to me and a lot of other people who fly similarly and inferior to others). All you have to do is read the write up of it in the AH Wiki. It's laughable at best, not to mention biased.
Spikes, it is a fun plane and it's more fun embarrassing Late War dependent folks with "such an inferior craft." Spikes, feel free to PM if you need any help or tips.
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I thought you weren't posting in this thread anymore?
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Spikes, it is a fun plane and it's more fun embarrassing Late War dependent folks with "such an inferior craft." Spikes, feel free to PM if you need any help or tips.
Hopefully I'll catch you on the Rooks sometime and we can do a few sorties. Not that I'm any good, but I think I might be able to hold my own. Hopefully I'll be flying this more when I know there's either a CV fight or a nice low level furball.
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Flaps don't improve the Ki-61's turn performance.
It turns nicely, and doesn't sacrifice airframe integrity like the Zero or Spit does, which out weigh the turn performance in my book.
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I don't fly it alot anymore, but when I do it's a sweet little ride. My very first sortie in one was a couple of years ago. I remember that fight because it was the first time I ever won outnumbered (and probably the only time). I got into a 3 v 1 with a trio of P-51Ds on the deck. I killed 2 in a turn fight and then ran the last one down when he tried to bug out. I the long run he might have got away but the 20mm made the difference. It seems to have some early model 109 characteristics paired with excellent dive qualities. But I suck so my info is crap anyway. :furious
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Ki-61 sucks, period.
:noid
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Fine, I recall that it has the same sort of bug as the P-51. Anyway, we can be glad it doesn't have the FM2 like turning of the original, 'cause that would be scary. :confused:
What is this P-51 bug you speak of?
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What is this P-51 bug you speak of?
The p-47 is a ballerina compared to the 51 when more than 2 notches of flaps are used.
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The p-47 is a ballerina compared to the 51 when more than 2 notches of flaps are used.
Excuse my ignorance, but is that wrong? I remember reading that the 47 and 51 used different types of flaps, and the 47's produced more lift... Or am I misremembering?
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Excuse my ignorance, but is that wrong? I remember reading that the 47 and 51 used different types of flaps, and the 47's produced more lift... Or am I misremembering?
The difference between a slotted and plain maneuvering flap does not account for how darn little the P-51's flaps do for it, how the P-47D-11 outurns the P-51 in all configurations despite a significantly higher wingloading, very different from the historical testing, just as the Ki-61 does not turn as well as WWII testing showed.
Judging by the relative improvement in turn radius, you'd have to conclude the Fw-190s split flaps are more efficient than the P-51s, which is just absolutely bizarre.
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The difference between a slotted and plain maneuvering flap does not account for how darn little the P-51's flaps do for it, how the P-47D-11 outurns the P-51 in all configurations despite a significantly higher wingloading, very different from the historical testing, just as the Ki-61 does not turn as well as WWII testing showed.
Judging by the relative improvement in turn radius, you'd have to conclude the Fw-190s split flaps are more efficient than the P-51s, which is just absolutely bizarre.
That is interesting... But this is the wrong thread for it. Sorry for the hijack, I'll start another. :salute
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That is interesting... But this is the wrong thread for it. Sorry for the hijack, I'll start another. :salute
Don't, been there, done that, not going to get changed until AHIII and I like the Jug better anyway.
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I liken the Ki-61 to a bobsled. It'll go pretty fast in a downhill run, but once you get on the deck and turnfighting, you're going to get outrun in a level dash by any of the late-war planes. On the other hand, because you're slower, you can turn tighter without blacking out due to G's. Also, having two nose-mounted cannons means you don't have to worry about convergence at any range, and the .50s on the outside mean you have some cone of fire for those planes that are in close and are just a bit off your centerline.
I consider the Ki-61 cannons to have a pretty fast rate of fire.
You don't see it much in the Late War arena because it's outclassed in level speed by so many other planes, owing to the fact it has the same engine as the 109E.
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I liken the Ki-61 to a bobsled. It'll go pretty fast in a downhill run, but once you get on the deck and turnfighting, you're going to get outrun in a level dash by any of the late-war planes. On the other hand, because you're slower, you can turn tighter without blacking out due to G's. Also, having two nose-mounted cannons means you don't have to worry about convergence at any range, and the .50s on the outside mean you have some cone of fire for those planes that are in close and are just a bit off your centerline.
I consider the Ki-61 cannons to have a pretty fast rate of fire.
You don't see it much in the Late War arena because it's outclassed in level speed by so many other planes, owing to the fact it has the same engine as the 109E.
I do like it for these reasons. You have speed if you keep your E up, but if you lose it, you do have the ability to turn fight since it's quite a nimble plane IMHO.
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Don't, been there, done that, not going to get changed until AHIII and I like the Jug better anyway.
Lol I read your post a bit too late...
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I liken the Ki-61 to a bobsled. It'll go pretty fast in a downhill run, but once you get on the deck and turnfighting, you're going to get outrun in a level dash by any of the late-war planes. On the other hand, because you're slower, you can turn tighter without blacking out due to G's. Also, having two nose-mounted cannons means you don't have to worry about convergence at any range, and the .50s on the outside mean you have some cone of fire for those planes that are in close and are just a bit off your centerline.
I consider the Ki-61 cannons to have a pretty fast rate of fire.
You don't see it much in the Late War arena because it's outclassed in level speed by so many other planes, owing to the fact it has the same engine as the 109E.
I disagree to agree.
All I'll say is I'm GRATEFUL that most deem the Ki-61 a "POS".
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I disagree to agree.
All I'll say is I'm GRATEFUL that most deem the Ki-61 a "POS".
Ki-61 is even worse than a POS...
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Anyway, we can be glad it doesn't have the FM2 like turning of the original, 'cause that would be scary. :confused:
It's not far off the turn rate of the FM2. I fought and beat one one night in a Ki-61.
The only planes I hesitate to get into a fight against when in a Spit XVI are the F4U-1A and the Ki-61. When I do the pilot makes all the difference. The Ki is a sweet ride.
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Took one to a cv furball the other night, nice fun crate to drive, I would put it in the same bracket as the pony B, in terms of being underestimated and underused.
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Plane is a piece of crap except for guns :aok
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Plane is a piece of crap except for guns :aok
Let me know when you wish to meet in the DA. :aok
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I enjoy the 61 quite a lot. I do find myself out of or low on ammo more often than most other rides, though. I agree the cannons are very lethal in close, but with a weak engine it is sometimes difficult to get in close, against an intelligent stick.
All in all, still a very fun and potent plane. This guy and the 109F may tie for my favorite spit killers.
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Could it hang with a pony in a dive? Thinking of the split s followed by the run to the ack crowd here. 109 loses ground in a dive, 61 could be a useful tool here.
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I enjoy the 61 quite a lot. I do find myself out of or low on ammo more often than most other rides, though. I agree the cannons are very lethal in close, but with a weak engine it is sometimes difficult to get in close, against an intelligent stick.
All in all, still a very fun and potent plane. This guy and the 109F may tie for my favorite spit killers.
That's one thing. Honestly. I'm never afraid to get into a turn fight in this thing. When I was on my 12th kill and heading home, a Spit5 was catching up to me. I didn't know the model of it right then, but I figured it was a Spit16...he was a decent stick and even then, I promptly out turned him, used my last 8 cannon rounds and blew his wing off, and kept on my way home.
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I have been flying the 61 almost exclusively since this thread started. i forgot how nice the bird really is. After a couple of flights to work the bugs out I had 3 sorties in a row of 3, 2, and 5 kills all landed. The 5 kill sortie I bugged out with 30 cannon and almost 350 12.7mm MG remaining. Yes I know enough for 5 more but I was already pressing my luck with 4 and 5. She accelerates slow but maintains speed well. I did get my tail handed to me by a Spit 8 though. :aok
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I have been flying the 61 almost exclusively since this thread started. i forgot how nice the bird really is. After a couple of flights to work the bugs out I had 3 sorties in a row of 3, 2, and 5 kills all landed. The 5 kill sortie I bugged out with 30 cannon and almost 350 12.7mm MG remaining. Yes I know enough for 5 more but I was already pressing my luck with 4 and 5. She accelerates slow but maintains speed well. I did get my tail handed to me by a Spit 8 though. :aok
Ki-61s are great fighters as long as they have some E. Getting into a prolonged turn fight at low altitude is where it starts to show its warts. Poor acceleration (generally under-powered) and miserable flaps will conspire to make things uncomfortable very quickly. P-39s have similar issues (especially the D model). Knowing when to bug out is big part of being successful in the Ki-61.
My regards,
Widewing
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After drawing this plane in last weeks FSO, i have become thoroughly addicted to flying it, its a great plane, and i plan on spending alot of time in it
Karaya, if you have any tips you could send my way id appreciate it, I know you are a killer in this thing ( actually if i remember right, you have killed me flying it lol) and i have actually been meaning to start a thread looking for someone to show me the ins and outs,
Thanks
:salute
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Let me know when you wish to meet in the DA. :aok
Shooting you down won't make the Ki 61 any better of an aircraft.
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This thing is a beast!!!
Might be my new favorite Furballing bird for a while. Took it up for the hell of it, nothing better to do Friday night. Ended up going home with no damage and 13 clean kills. I've never flown it either. I forgot what base it was but I was on the deck turn fighting. I was outturning Spit 16's with no flaps down, running down La7's, etc. I absolutely love the 20mm nose cannons. Are the ballistics any good on them? Or was I just lucky? They seemed to be able to tear any plane to pieces with a few rounds. I couldn't tell if the 50cals were doing any help to me, but I didn't spend more than 3 seconds on a plane before ripping him to pieces.
Wow .... I don't know what your doing but running down La's in a Ki61 is something I can't do. It's a good all around plane but La speed isn't one of them. 13 clean kills with just 240 or is it 250 (I forget) is a tall order. If I get 5 kills on one flight I feel like I did well but 13?
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250 20mm and 500 12.7mm
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Shooting you down won't make the Ki 61 any better of an aircraft.
I take this as you're too scared?
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10% plane...90% pilot :aok
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Wow .... I don't know what your doing but running down La's in a Ki61 is something I can't do. It's a good all around plane but La speed isn't one of them. 13 clean kills with just 240 or is it 250 (I forget) is a tall order. If I get 5 kills on one flight I feel like I did well but 13?
I've run down La7's on occasion, however with a good grasp of "what you opponent is going to do next", you can maneuver yourself accordingly.
90% of the time I am around 7,500 ft. You have one MAYBE two passes to "run any hot rod down". 99% of the time, you have one pass. You aren't running anything down in the Ki-61 OTD.
I rarely pick and often turnfighting (none of the "angles" crap, I turn it) in it.
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Too bad the dive performance of the Tony isn't accurately modeled. In real life in a high speed dive, right turns were almost impossible, which lead to the US defensive tactic of entering into a high speed dive to the right to escape from a Ki-61. From what I've seen, the Tony in AH doesn't suffer from that.
ack-ack
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I think the Ki flys really good in rolling scissors, I feel that the plane that can get slower in those will most likely win the engagement and I know the Ki61 can go slooooow which is where the flaps do come into play, im no expert but I have flown the ki61 exclusively for awhile and found it is quite the dogfight against any plane and any pilot if flown right :salute
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Had a few nice flights last night and today. Each with 3-6 kills. MY record in the Ki is 27 and 2 which I think is pretty good for not really flying it much. I love the fact that I can go from running someone down to turning with them almost instantly.