Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: EDO43 on December 17, 2001, 01:50:00 PM
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Hey I'm whining...so what, I'm extremely tired of the perpetual gang bang that exists in the Main Arena since the close of Air Warrior. Something's gotta be done with a good majority of these air warrior rejects. Engage a bandit at 25k only to gain his six, and see him flee toward the ground where innumerable other bad guys wait to kill you. I don't blame the guy for doing it as he's tryin to save his skin. But By the time you realize you're in deep it's too late. Looking back all you see are red planes and nowhere to go. Don't follow him down? That's an option but invariably, there are 3 or 4 others just south of you 5-10K higher who're on the way just because they saw a red dot in the sector and need to investigate/kill it. Another option: fly around at 35k waiting to pounce on someone lower. While it works, it's hopelessly impractical. 15 sorties might yield half a dozen kills if you're lucky. Fly with a wingman? I do that as much as possible. Usually what happens is you both end up being gang banged. You just cannot plan an attack any more. You can't use ACM training because there's too damn many hard ups that need to engage you while you're attempting to fight it out with one or two others. Gang bangs are a fact of life; it happens to us all. Up until very recently, I would just call it what it was and let it go. Nowadays, they're almost unavoidable.
Solution: Either make the maps extremely larger or make more than one main arena. These "bee swarm" gang bangs gotta stop. There is no point in trying to achieve an objective when there is no way in hell that it can physically be accomplished. 60-70 guys on each front facing like numbers is ridiculous. nothing is gonna happen until one of the three teams has substantially fewer numbers. Then it's "Katie bar the door, cause it's raining Bish/Rook/Knights". This game has become extremely disheartening and highly unenjoyable. I fly to win and I usually fly smart but the numbers negate all that. I realize that higher numbers make for better business/profits and I congratulate HTC on their success. I also see the loss of the personality of the game. Just too much happening in too little an area.
I can go play another game and for awhile, it might be a better alternative to the aggravation that has got the better of me. I just got a nice,new set up of CH Products, all USB so I may go fly Falcon 4.0 for awhile. If you get gang banged in that game, it's because of a major offensive underway. Not because there's 50 million dweebs flyin around lookin to shoot something other than the breeze.
Here endeth the Whine....without the cheese thank-you. :(
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Make the map bigger and most of that would be solved. There needs to be either more space between bases on the fronts, or more bases along those fronts. Either way, the map as a whole needs to be bigger.
Last night I logged and saw 440 people in the MA. I didn't even leave the tower, just clicked "Quit" and took the squad to the CT.
[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Raubvogel ]
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Keep an eye on the CT. There should be a new setup there soon. It might be a place to go when the MA mega furball gang bang gets tiresome.
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Strange.
I agree with what you're saying, to a certain extent (I like the population pressure in the MA), but it just struck me that your complaint matches exactly my experience of buff escort on Sunday in the scenario. Line up on some one at 25K, and hope you've the discipline not to get sucked down, because death's down there...
So the MA's getting more real now?
[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: Seeker ]
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Yup I agree, yer whining :) I have been in that situation many times in the MA, and it hasn't been AW ..ahem rejects who shot me down after leading 3 or 4 on a merry chase.
I recommend that you don't fly into such a large clot of nme, not good for your aircraft :) Imo, its numbers that give a better feeling than getting slaughtered. Having been on the side that was getting hammered day in and out until about a month ago, I can tell you it aint no fun. If you want to gain an advantage at 25k without any interference then perhaps the MA isn't for you. From what I see, most of the action takes place down low where the real estate is located. And that is where you will find many determined nme (doesn't matter which country). You mention many options which involve you with an advantage, hmmm tough work if you can get it :)
Why don't you hang in there and work with your countrymen in place of a wingman, or a mission up to take out an nme base instead of hunting unsuspecting lone nme? :)
The other night there wree over 400 pilits in the arena, and HT seemed pleased. From my perspective there were a lot more targets, and I had fun :)
Hey I'm whining...so what, I'm extremely tired of the perpetual gang bang that exists in the Main Arena since the close of Air Warrior. Something's gotta be done with a good majority of these air warrior rejects. Engage a bandit at 25k only to gain his six, and see him flee toward the ground where innumerable other bad guys wait to kill you. I don't blame the guy for doing it as he's tryin to save his skin. But By the time you realize you're in deep it's too late. Looking back all you see are red planes and nowhere to go. Don't follow him down? That's an option but invariably, there are 3 or 4 others just south of you 5-10K higher who're on the way just because they saw a red dot in the sector and need to investigate/kill it. Another option: fly around at 35k waiting to pounce on someone lower. While it works, it's hopelessly impractical. 15 sorties might yield half a dozen kills if you're lucky
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I just started playing AH,and I am one of those AW "rejects".
I've been gangbanged,and have also returned the favor...but I have never once whined about it.
After all,if you blow 25k chasing a bogey to the deck,who's fault is it?
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Originally posted by EDO43:
:(
What a sissy.
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Since the first times, with less people and smaller maps, few people and bigger ones and now with overpopulation and big maps, each country has maintained and average of two defensive/offensive points. IMO, bigger maps will not solve the problem, you will have, again, the people of each country divided in two offensive/defensive places, these places will remain overpopulated while other sites, due bigger space will have a big decrease in planes density. The chances to find a fight in these places will be minimal.
A second arena would be a great idea. An arena for spits and another for the rest of us, overpopulation solved for us :D (sorry, cant resist)
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I agree with Mandoble.
At first I thought that with 200-300 players in the MA the MAP's needed to be bigger as well. But if you take a good look at the map, most of the time the players concentrate around a couple of fields. Many players only want to furball (which is fine by me).
EDO I think it is still possible to find some players at the not so concentrated area's. Just up a wing of a couple of fighters and sweep deep into enemy territory. Although you'll run into allot of players after a while (most buff chasing by then), there will be a time slot in which you can engage just a limited No of them, :) . Just goto make sure to bug out in time. Although it prolly takes longer to get into a 'fair' fight, mind you that if the MAP's are made bigger, it'll take even longer to find the fight your looking for!
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I think AH is the most fun now that we have more people in the MA. I agree with MANDOBLE that no matter how large you make the map it's going to end up with the "war on two fronts".
I would like wait until after the CT opens "new and inproved"...I think you will see the numbers in the MA drop some.
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Originally posted by skernsk:
I think AH is the most fun now that we have more people in the MA. I agree with MANDOBLE that no matter how large you make the map it's going to end up with the "war on two fronts".
I would like wait until after the CT opens "new and inproved"...I think you will see the numbers in the MA drop some.
Yep, wars will usually end on two fronts because gamer nature is to herd to the area with the largest radar bar. Generaly this is an area where 2 bases, or in the case of Mindanao, 3 bases of different country origin are only 25 miles apart.
I totaly agree with Raubvogel's statement that we need a bigger map. A map with more distance between the bases.
That is why I made my Celebes map.
Please take a few minutes to check out this thread. (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=013014)
I know it's not the greatest map, but I think it offers a good possible solution to the problem at hand.
I think it also offers a some room for growth and learning.
HT and crew keep coming into "Firsts" in their adventures and having 440 people on line at once is obviously one of them. I think there is some new strategy to be learned by us as players, and by HTC in the design of arenas that fit. :)
Thanks,
Viper
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Originally posted by Montezuma:
What a sissy.
What a squeak.
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"I totaly agree with Raubvogel's statement that we need a bigger map. A map with more distance between the bases."
Nope, wrong solution. A map with MORE bases, as Raub also suggested, could be workable. So could having a good second arena. But NOT a map with dramatically increased distances.
Why?
Not everyone plays when there's 450 people in the MA. Try playing during late-night or early-morning sometime--there's often between 100-200 people playing and sometimes under 100. Increased base distances would ruin the game for these people.
J_A_B
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I agree, something has to be done about the massive furballing in MA...
Its a funny thing, for me its not hard to tell where all those AW-rejects come from...
At about 24:00 every night, gameplay deteriorates, and the furballing "ANNNNNNNNNYYYYYYYYYYONNNNNNNN NNNNEEEEEEEEE WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN NNNNAAAAAAAAAA BBBBBBBBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEEEE MMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYY GUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNEEEEE EEERRRRR?"-stuff begins...and that, funny enuff, is right at the time ppl in the EST zone have eaten their supper, had their nappies changed, and go to daddys computer to play AH...
:D
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hmmm intersting member rating stomper,
I cant imagine how that happened.
I still have to say that more space between nme lines and more distance between bases is a good thing. Furballs will happen, and even the late nighters who unfortunatly have to fly with people like stomper, could still accomplish things. It would just be more important to protect and work from captured enemy bases. It would be more difficult to get that first nme base, but once you had it game play would change. It would also favor the defense alittle too, since recapture of taken bases would be easier than trying to go into nme territory to get new ones.
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Yup.I'm sure all the furballs are nothing but lame ol' Airwarriors. :rolleyes:
Better get used to us.We are here,and there are some very good sticks.
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Look it all boils down to what's on the menu.
Right now the menu is limited in choices to either:
Many on many low-alt furballs.
Buffing / buff interception.
But the main goal is taking the other guy's bases.
Why not a fightertown arena? Each side gets 4 uncapturables bases. 1 front-line furball base, 1 med alt cherry picker base and one high alt-monkey base.
Just a thought.
And I'd actually limit the numbers in the main arena to 400. By capping it you encourage folks to either a) keep trying to get in if they really want to (it shouldn't take long) b) go to a different arena and try something new.
~Lemur
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What the almost monkey said!
Can we turn off KS in the DA and move the furballers out of the TA?
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I must admit it does get abit frustrating to face a guy or 2 and co-alt then see 10 more come blazing in from 25k.
Hey BUT on a postive note I'm being forced to furball that 38 and I almost think its helping me. I am running outta of speckling though to patch those joy-stick sized holes in the wall...
xBAT
P.S. The AW guys will be AH guys with in say... a month or so and they'll be squeaking at silly arse "newbies" on this board soon, lol
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I'm not sure I understand this whine....
Your upset because you get gang banged??? Why not be the banger. You fly alone, you die alone, its always been that way to a certain extent. AH is a game of cooperation and teamwork, and if that teamwork is on the NME side and your flying solo....you are going to die, and it doesnt matter how big the map gets...smart people fly with teammates.
Personally Ive found kills very easy to come by in the MA lately. I flew the IL-2 for about 15 sortes today, and ended up with a 2-1 or better K/D ratio (GOD I LOVE ITS GUNS).
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The fields need to be closer together not further. Right now, everyone concentrates on the areas where there is some contact. Face it... you have to force people to spread out and fly around doing NOTHING and, as mandoble points out, even then... people go where the action is.
If you figure out a way to make a map with not possibility of action then you will figure out how to get rid of the AW guys.. and everyone else except for a half a dozen guys... HTC realizes this.
With closer fields there will be more pockets of action.. You will have choice and not be forced to cherry pick at the one or two hotspots on the map.... It will be good for you... You can have more choice in your timid cherry picking. You won't have to come down where you might come in contact with other players who will shoot you down.
lazs
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Wing up with one or two squaddies. Sweep deep into enemy territory. Furball problem solved.
Wing up with one or two buddies. Load eggs, hit field with little activity. Problem solved.
Furballs are where it's easiest to get kills in and live. No small wonder the newbies are drawn to it.
Haven't been on when there's been 440 on, but with 330, our squad could avoid the gangbangs, when we wanted to.
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so...stsanta... you COULD do really really well in a furball and survive but because you are noble and skilled you would rather fly around doing nothing or milkrunning deserted fields?
No, closer fields would help everyone. The people who enjoyed action would have more than one or two locations to fight and there would be furs of different sizes. Those who eschew fighting for noble "sneak up and run away" would have more variety also and still be able to find a deserted field to milkrun if the desire struck them.
lazs
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Originally posted by StSanta:
Wing up with one or two squaddies. Sweep deep into enemy territory. Furball problem solved.
Wing up with one or two buddies. Load eggs, hit field with little activity. Problem solved.
Furballs are where it's easiest to get kills in and live. No small wonder the newbies are drawn to it.
Haven't been on when there's been 440 on, but with 330, our squad could avoid the gangbangs, when we wanted to.
Yeah what he said! Deep sweeps are a blast with wingmen. That's good P51D territory.
With all the new folks on it has sometimes been like clubbing baby seals on occassion. The other day I was in a P51D with alt and attacked a formation of three enemy fighters, while maintaining my e advantage. I shot one down on my first past and the other two spun their aircraft into the water before I could get a second shot.
Happy Holidays!
Rogue out
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I think that if we sterilize all the Bishops the problem would be solved.
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Originally posted by EDO43:
Hey I'm whining...so what, I'm extremely tired of the perpetual gang bang that exists in the Main Arena since the close of Air Warrior. Something's gotta be done with a good majority of these air warrior rejects. Engage a bandit at 25k only to gain his six, and see him flee toward the ground where innumerable other bad guys wait to kill you. I don't blame the guy for doing it as he's tryin to save his skin. But By the time you realize you're in deep it's too late. Looking back all you see are red planes and nowhere to go. Don't follow him down? That's an option but invariably, there are 3 or 4 others just south of you 5-10K higher who're on the way just because they saw a red dot in the sector and need to investigate/kill it. Another option: fly around at 35k waiting to pounce on someone lower. While it works, it's hopelessly impractical. 15 sorties might yield half a dozen kills if you're lucky. Fly with a wingman? I do that as much as possible. Usually what happens is you both end up being gang banged. You just cannot plan an attack any more. You can't use ACM training because there's too damn many hard ups that need to engage you while you're attempting to fight it out with one or two others. Gang bangs are a fact of life; it happens to us all. Up until very recently, I would just call it what it was and let it go. Nowadays, they're almost unavoidable.
Solution: Either make the maps extremely larger or make more than one main arena. These "bee swarm" gang bangs gotta stop. There is no point in trying to achieve an objective when there is no way in hell that it can physically be accomplished. 60-70 guys on each front facing like numbers is ridiculous. nothing is gonna happen until one of the three teams has substantially fewer numbers. Then it's "Katie bar the door, cause it's raining Bish/Rook/Knights". This game has become extremely disheartening and highly unenjoyable. I fly to win and I usually fly smart but the numbers negate all that. I realize that higher numbers make for better business/profits and I congratulate HTC on their success. I also see the loss of the personality of the game. Just too much happening in too little an area.
I can go play another game and for awhile, it might be a better alternative to the aggravation that has got the better of me. I just got a nice,new set up of CH Products, all USB so I may go fly Falcon 4.0 for awhile. If you get gang banged in that game, it's because of a major offensive underway. Not because there's 50 million dweebs flyin around lookin to shoot something other than the breeze.
Here endeth the Whine....without the cheese thank-you. :(
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think of thiws.. if this was real combat , which it is suppose to simulate.. would you go to the real enemy and whine that there are to many of you will you all please land so i can shoot someone... not in real life.. the name of the game is to win and if you work with team work well.. your supposed too.. that is the name of the game. OBject of war to kill the opponent any way possible.. and it is just a game.. lol which i forget sometimes...War is hell but at least when you die here you can fly again.. s ;) :eek: :p MP Sgt 72-86
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Keep field distance the same,make new maps bigger.. :cool:
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Look at the map closer, there's always a sector with only 2 or 3 cons
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LOL , EDO must been drunk to post a whine like this, since the solution is simple self control to avoid that scenario. Hope the blow off of steam has done its job. <S>
As far as the map goes, hecks its pretty big already. Take a b17 to 20-24k and you can cook a meal waiting for it to get to alt and never see a red icon the whole mission.