Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: raiders on January 30, 2009, 11:36:10 AM
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I wish they would put a Catalina into aces high because we can use them to bomb enemy CVs plus socut out for enemy CVs.they can take off by any shore line airfields have two torps and a 500 pound bomb. plus this might be good if any pilot was to bail out instead of ending sorte they can shoot out a flare. and if any catalinas were in the area they would land and save the pilot and the catalina would land near base and the pilot can get his points. just a thoght plz coment on this form and see what u think :aok
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We already have a great bomber for sea bombing missions. They're known as lanc-stukas. Currently there's no use for a Catalina in the scouting role as there is no real use for scouting. We see all the icons on the clipboard, we have dar-bars, and we can just as easily spot CVs in a Spitfire as in a Catalina.
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ya but when the radar is out we cant see the cv any more. so instead of sending fighters up to find it we can use the catalina to find it while the fighters stay and protect the base. plus the catalina can carry ords.
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I want it, and would love to see it, but there's other things we need first.
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ya but when the radar is out we cant see the cv any more...
As far as I can tell, our radar doesn't display CV locations anyways. ;)
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ya it dose its a big red dot on the m :aokap.
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Could the Catalina drop troops? because that's something I want, just wait in the water till the base is ready, no need to dodge the trees.
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more useful would be Lockheed Ventura Pv-1
Helm ...out
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ya it dose its a big red dot on the m :aokap.
No, radar / map does not display the location of enemy CVs.
Regards,
Hammer
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She would much more accurately be used for cargo. She wasn't a troop transport in the same manner as the C-47, rather more for VIPs if anything.
However she WOULD be interesting both because of her use as a light cargo carrier and the fact she can carry ordinance as well (torpedoes, bombs and I think rockets).
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It would be fun to see if they would spawn for PT spawns and be controlled by VH availability or BH availability. Watching a recent show, it was disclosed that sea takeoffs were very long (maybe 3 miles) and had to gradually build up speed to avoid prop damage. Vulcher's delight.
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No, radar / map does not display the location of enemy CVs.
Regards,
Hammer
No but it does become quite useful when you look at it and see an entire Ocean Sector filled with Red and there is no base for 100-200 miles :) or its right beside your bases and there is none of their bases within 5-6 sectors it does seem to draw a tiny red flag :noid
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I want it, and would love to see it, but there's other things we need first.
I agree with Saxman.
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Just for some eye-candy :)
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s205/FrankTimmerman/ph20Catalina20PBY.jpg)
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s205/FrankTimmerman/Cats_Have_Claws.jpg)
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s205/FrankTimmerman/2226340211_13c6e20ea5.jpg)
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s205/FrankTimmerman/RAFcatalinaseaplanefindsthebismark.jpg)
And the best known:
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s205/FrankTimmerman/catalin2.jpg)
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If we can get the H8K with it I'm all for it.
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How about the Swordfish? :D
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I would like PBY solely because my Dad flew em in Pacific---would be hangar queen tho
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Ideally I'd like to see 2 varients of the PBY. A daylight long range scout version, and a Black Cats night attack version.
And Yes I want Mavis, Emily, and all the rest to go with it.
Its the one thing I've asked for consistantly for 10 years.
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It would be fun to see if they would spawn for PT spawns and be controlled by VH availability or BH availability. Watching a recent show, it was disclosed that sea takeoffs were very long (maybe 3 miles) and had to gradually build up speed to avoid prop damage. Vulcher's delight.
i think it was on the military channel it was called Great Planes
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Yup! That was the show. Also, learned the manufacturers went on to make the B24, and never noticed the similarity until that was mentioned. Great pics Frank, take a look for yourself.
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Would it be the -5, -5a, or both? not sure if the -6 saw combat to be included
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I don't care what others might think, this plane deserves a spot to be put into game. But, i never said it should be first on that list. ;)
-FYB
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The Catalina should be added along with submarines simultaneously. :aok
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I wish they would put a Catalina into aces high because we can use them to bomb enemy CVs plus socut out for enemy CVs.they can take off by any shore line airfields have two torps and a 500 pound bomb. plus this might be good if any pilot was to bail out instead of ending sorte they can shoot out a flare. and if any catalinas were in the area they would land and save the pilot and the catalina would land near base and the pilot can get his points. just a thoght plz coment on this form and see what u think :aok
I think a novel and good idea for FSO but not too much in the MA. Just my 2 cents. I am all for it. :aok
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Just look for 'search and rescue' at the search-option, you'll find plenty of similar ideas concerning the Cat :aok
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Short Sunderland, H8K2 'Emily' and PBY Catalina would all be fun additions, though of varying usefulness. The H8K2 would be used quite a bit in the MA, the Sunderland significantly less and the Catalina hardly at all outside of scenarios or the Early War Arena.
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the catalina mmmmmmmmmm now that would be awesome. we would be able to fly a boat :lol
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the catalina mmmmmmmmmm now that would be awesome. we would be able to fly a boat :lol
I know HT has mentioned that it is problematic to create a 'flying boat', as planes aren't allowed to come in contact with water....more than once
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that seriously blows but if they added the PBY and made a special thing that allowed the PBY only to touch and land on water :rock
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The Catalina hardly at all outside of scenarios or the Early War Arena.
I doubt this. She's slower than both and not as well-armed defensively, but carries double the ordinance (4000lbs of bombs, torpedoes or depth charges vs the 2000lbs I can find attributed to the H8K and Sunderland). She'll find a niche.
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I doubt this. She's slower than both and not as well-armed defensively, but carries double the ordinance (4000lbs of bombs, torpedoes or depth charges vs the 2000lbs I can find attributed to the H8K and Sunderland). She'll find a niche.
H8K2 carried eight 250kg bombs or two 800kg torpedoes or two 1600kg bombs.
And calling the PBY slower is a large understatement.
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I doubt this. She's slower than both and not as well-armed defensively, but carries double the ordinance (4000lbs of bombs, torpedoes or depth charges vs the 2000lbs I can find attributed to the H8K and Sunderland). She'll find a niche.
she has a big pay load for a CV attack than a TBM thats why i want it in AH.
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I believe the PBY could be used as a troop carrier to. Be great to land out at sea near the enemy base until it clear, hehehehe. :devil
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H8K2 carried eight 250kg bombs or two 800kg torpedoes or two 1600kg bombs.
And calling the PBY slower is a large understatement.
It would fly 200 knots for like 16 hours....neither very useful in here. If ya are leaving from land base, many other buffs ya might want
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plus this might be good if any pilot was to bail out instead of ending sorte they can shoot out a flare. and if any catalinas were in the area they would land and save the pilot and the catalina would land near base and the pilot can get his points. just a thoght plz coment on this form and see what u think :aok
I like that/ +1
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I believe the PBY could be used as a troop carrier to. Be great to land out at sea near the enemy base until it clear, hehehehe. :devil
Definitely a great use for the plane! :D
-FYB
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This has been discussed many times:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,248094.msg3044921/topicseen.html#msg3044921
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O yah im all in for it. it was part of my wish list so i totally support it. i like the flare shooting part great idea :rock
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This has been discussed many times:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,248094.msg3044921/topicseen.html#msg3044921
and will discussused many times again. oh, unless there's rule #42, if it's been mentioned, it's closed. discussion on i say.
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I would love to see an increased utility for Maritime Patrol in the game. But even as it stands, the Cat should find a role in Scenarios and Events (though really Scenarios more so than shorter term events).
I used to be holding out hope that the coming Combat Theater would open the nitch for her, but with that shelved, I'm at a loss. But I, for one, loved Flying MARPAT in support of operations in Midway many years ago, and flew in a similar capacity in an ETO ToD. I know that it's not everyone's bailiwick, but it was a vital role in the War, and I hope that it deserves a place in the game.
-Sik
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It would fly 200 knots for like 16 hours....neither very useful in here. If ya are leaving from land base, many other buffs ya might want
BJ has a point. It's actual use as a bomber or torpedo plane would be somewhere less than that of the Stuka. But with the addition of water landings and take offs or even troop deployment it will be utilized more than the jeep or SDk I believe.
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ya it dose its a big red dot on the m :aokap.
That would be the horde FROM the cv.
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I needed a PBY tonight to run supplys from Cv to airfield. Lvt spawned too far away. :aok
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How about the Swordfish? :D
Yes please.
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That would be the horde FROM the cv.
ya so that blows the cover for the cv :aok
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You know what would be kind of cool, is if the PBY (or any other scout aircraft) acted as a limited aerial radar tower (reduced range). That way if you lose your radar at a base, you take off w/ one and "scout" for enemy aircraft.
However I could see how some would consider this somewhat gamey.
There would have to be a limit on the radar's effective altitude, ie. 5k above and 5k below only. That way we wouldn't have PBY's at 30k detecting aircraft down at 5k who are unable to eliminate the PBY.
So there would be 2 gun packages, the scout package which is unarmed, and perhaps the resupply/troop (I could see only 5 troops or so) carrier which has guns. Would be like a C-47 that could defend it's self. This of course is based on the assumption that the PBY was actually used for resupply or troop transport, I know they did rescue missions, but I don't know how many the a/c could carry.
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I can see the PBY carrying supplies, but I don't think they could drop troops like that.
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It would fly 200 knots for like 16 hours....neither very useful in here. If ya are leaving from land base, many other buffs ya might want
It couldn't do 200 knots flat out, let alone at cruising speeds. It has a top speed of 196mph.
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1mph = 1.15kts
So...
196mph = ~225kts
:P
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Sax - you got that backwards - 1kt = 1.15mph.
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You know what would be kind of cool, is if the PBY (or any other scout aircraft) acted as a limited aerial radar tower (reduced range). That way if you lose your radar at a base, you take off w/ one and "scout" for enemy aircraft.
However I could see how some would consider this somewhat gamey.
There would have to be a limit on the radar's effective altitude, ie. 5k above and 5k below only. That way we wouldn't have PBY's at 30k detecting aircraft down at 5k who are unable to eliminate the PBY.
So there would be 2 gun packages, the scout package which is unarmed, and perhaps the resupply/troop (I could see only 5 troops or so) carrier which has guns. Would be like a C-47 that could defend it's self. This of course is based on the assumption that the PBY was actually used for resupply or troop transport, I know they did rescue missions, but I don't know how many the a/c could carry.
It dosent carry troops only injerd ones and the PBY only had a sonar detection on it. and they never carred supplys that i dont know.
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The PBY-6A had a radome mounted above the cockpit just forward of the wing mount. Black Cat PBYs were also field-modified with MAD systems (Magnetic Anomaly Detectors) to locate enemy shipping in the darkness, and could also be used to track submarines running shallow.
PBYs WERE used for carrying supplies. The early Black Cats (or at least their forerunners) were extensively pressed into helping resupply Guadalcanal, although their carrying capacity was understandably limited. However they were NOT utilized as troop transports. The closest they came was air-sea rescue operations ("Dumbos") and occasionally as long-range VIP transports.
Sector9,
All PBYs ran armed, including those operating as scouts. Standard armament in the PBY-5A was 1 or 2 .30cal in the nose, a .30cal aft, and a .50cal in each waist blister. Most of the 5As had the twin .30s, so this is the package that should be modeled. The PBY-6A replaced the bow .30s with a pair of .50cal.
A large number of Black Cat PBYs added an additional four fixed .50cal in the bow where the glass panel would normally be, just below the turret and which didn't interfere with its operation. It was technically a field mod, but was standardized enough among the Black Cats to IMO justify its inclusion as a gun package option. The bomb sight was removed in this configuration, so it could be treated like the glass vs. solid-nosed B-25C. Some Black Cats were mounted with a pair of 20mm in this position instead, however this required removal of the guns in the bow turret. I don't have any numbers for aircraft with this armament, so I don't know if it could be justified as a gun package or not.
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Sector9,
All PBYs ran armed, including those operating as scouts. Standard armament in the PBY-5A was 1 or 2 .30cal in the nose, a .30cal aft, and a .50cal in each waist blister. Most of the 5As had the twin .30s, so this is the package that should be modeled. The PBY-6A replaced the bow .30s with a pair of .50cal.
There was also a gun in the keel section but rarely used manned in combat because it was so uncomfortable for the gunner that had to kneel for as long as 12 hours on some missions.
What surprised me is that the Black Cats (and I'm also guessing PBYs in general) didn't have internal bomb racks. Instead, they stored the bombs internally where they could and the crew would then just drop the bombs out the bay themselves.
Still think beer bottles should be a weapon package selection, though I would imagine it would be perked. :rofl
ack-ack
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It couldn't do 200 knots flat out, let alone at cruising speeds. It has a top speed of 196mph.
WHATever.... Anyhow, it's major failing in here would be that it hasn't the ability to fly where fighters can't go, thus we would see a goon with a few .30's
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There was also a gun in the keel section but rarely used manned in combat because it was so uncomfortable for the gunner that had to kneel for as long as 12 hours on some missions.
What surprised me is that the Black Cats (and I'm also guessing PBYs in general) didn't have internal bomb racks. Instead, they stored the bombs internally where they could and the crew would then just drop the bombs out the bay themselves.
Still think beer bottles should be a weapon package selection, though I would imagine it would be perked. :rofl
ack-ack
I thought the bombs were fit to racks on the wings.
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I thought the bombs were fit to racks on the wings.
The smaller anti-personal bombs were stored internally.
Now the Cats took a page from the Japanese handbook of dirty tricks. One night Jim Cobb took off for Guadalcanal where he would spend several hours giving Japanese troops ashore a taste of their own medicine. Wing racks were loaded with heavy ordnance while inside the aircraft smaller anti-personnel bombs were stashed wherever there was an unoccupied niche. All night they flew back and forth across enemy lines, sometimes making a single drop and sometimes letting their weapons go in a stick of three or four. The bombs which were stowed internally were flipped out of the waist hatch by gleeful crewmen on signal from the pilot. After each pass the PBY would depart the area for a time, suggesting to the enemy that all was clear. Then it would return to repeat the performance. These operations came to be called "Louie the Louse" flights.
That particular night, Cobb may have unwittingly coined the name by which PBYs would become known throughout the South Pacific. As he departed Espiritu Santo for the flight north, he sent word ahead to General Geiger on Guadalcanal that they were coming. In an effort to minimize radio transmissions his short cryptic message read simply, "THE BLACK CAT FLIES TONIGHT."
ack-ack
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There was also a gun in the keel section but rarely used manned in combat because it was so uncomfortable for the gunner that had to kneel for as long as 12 hours on some missions.
What surprised me is that the Black Cats (and I'm also guessing PBYs in general) didn't have internal bomb racks. Instead, they stored the bombs internally where they could and the crew would then just drop the bombs out the bay themselves.
Still think beer bottles should be a weapon package selection, though I would imagine it would be perked. :rofl
ack-ack
bombs were carryed externally becuse the PBY had too much stuff internally especially the Black Cats. :O
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bombs were carryed externally becuse the PBY had too much stuff internally especially the Black Cats. :O
No, they carried small anti-personal bombs internally which were dropped out of the bay by the crew. In addition to the small anti-personal bombs, Black Cats frequently dropped grenades, recovered shrapnel from Japanese bombs and beer bottles during their night time harassment raids.
ack-ack
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No, they carried small anti-personal bombs internally which were dropped out of the bay by the crew. In addition to the small anti-personal bombs, Black Cats frequently dropped grenades, recovered shrapnel from Japanese bombs and beer bottles during their night time harassment raids.
ack-ack
ookkk then prove it.
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I'm pretty sure that a fair few carried a payload of sharks.
With frickin' lasers.
-Sik
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It is mentioned in 'Black Cat Raiders of World War II on page 71:
http://books.google.com/books?id=cNoCLmvjj60C&pg=PA71&lpg=PA71&dq=PBY+Catalina+drops+anti-personnel&source=web&ots=T3pM8opVPk&sig=29TBKRR6VF00wNJbMQ4lcfTkVEg&hl=en&ei=0ZaYSajFG4OftwfdvKC6Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result
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The PBY-6A had a radome mounted above the cockpit just forward of the wing mount. Black Cat PBYs were also field-modified with MAD systems (Magnetic Anomaly Detectors) to locate enemy shipping in the darkness, and could also be used to track submarines running shallow.
PBYs WERE used for carrying supplies. The early Black Cats (or at least their forerunners) were extensively pressed into helping resupply Guadalcanal, although their carrying capacity was understandably limited. However they were NOT utilized as troop transports. The closest they came was air-sea rescue operations ("Dumbos") and occasionally as long-range VIP transports.
Sector9,
All PBYs ran armed, including those operating as scouts. Standard armament in the PBY-5A was 1 or 2 .30cal in the nose, a .30cal aft, and a .50cal in each waist blister. Most of the 5As had the twin .30s, so this is the package that should be modeled. The PBY-6A replaced the bow .30s with a pair of .50cal.
A large number of Black Cat PBYs added an additional four fixed .50cal in the bow where the glass panel would normally be, just below the turret and which didn't interfere with its operation. It was technically a field mod, but was standardized enough among the Black Cats to IMO justify its inclusion as a gun package option. The bomb sight was removed in this configuration, so it could be treated like the glass vs. solid-nosed B-25C. Some Black Cats were mounted with a pair of 20mm in this position instead, however this required removal of the guns in the bow turret. I don't have any numbers for aircraft with this armament, so I don't know if it could be justified as a gun package or not.
Also, the PBY-5A had landing gears, which allowed the Catalina to land in water or on a small airfield.
-FYB
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more useful would be Lockheed Ventura Pv-1
Helm ...out
Agreed :aok
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We already have a great bomber for sea bombing missions. They're known as lanc-stukas. Currently there's no use for a Catalina in the scouting role as there is no real use for scouting. We see all the icons on the clipboard, we have dar-bars, and we can just as easily spot CVs in a Spitfire as in a Catalina.
But the Catalina could also carry troops and is armed and can be outfitted with bombs. It would be nice to have a troop transport with a little defensive fire just for "peace of mind" aspects. hehehehe
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
PS.. they could also rescue downed pilots so they don't get a "captured" or "ditched" label
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The extent of the PBY's transport role was as VIP transports and light cargo. They didn't carry troops like the C-47 could.
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Quick question..... would we have to expand the CV decks to allow a normal take off?
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I don't think PBYs operate from carriers. I'd imagine they'd be available at PT boat spawns.
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we need a flying boat :aok
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i think they should be able to spawn next to the cv like pt boats. could carry field supplies or a limited number of vehicle supplies. love the idea of picking up ditched pilots, but honestly how many ppl would wait for the pby to show up?
would sure make logistics of taking a field with a cv a lot better though. would definatly find a niche here. good for torpedoing other cvs too
besides, flying boats rule :cool:
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the PBY blister gun looks familular
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HECK YEA WE NEED A CATALINA IT COULD LAND ON WATER HAVE 2 TORPS 2 BLISTER TURRETS ON HE SIDES WITH 50 CALS. A CANNON AND A MG IN THE FRONT FOR A GUNNER A RADAR WOULD ALSO B GOOD PLUS ITLL GO GOOD WITH MY SQUAD NAME BLACK CATS THEY CAN ALSO FLY IN FORMATION :salute
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The extent of the PBY's transport role was as VIP transports and light cargo. They didn't carry troops like the C-47 could.
Good observation Saxman. Maybe if it is allowed cargo, limit the amount like in the Jeep.
Also, I agree that it should only spawn from PT spawn or Carrier deck. It shouldn't be allowed to spawn after carrier is down, for obvious reasons.
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if they add the Catalina i think they should add a smaller float plane :aok
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if they add the Catalina i think they should add a smaller float plane :aok
Look no further; Vought Kingfisher :aok
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s205/FrankTimmerman/Kingfisher.jpg)
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Floatplanes, if modeled, could be useful.
They could be available in ports, currently are none. I've long argued that there is no reason to exclude Vals, Kates, and SBDs from ports--short takeoff and get the hanger queens flying. MG/small (100-250 lb) ordinance-armed floatplanes could ward off a landing party, no?
They could also be used as AI-controlled objects scouting for enemy carriers. That is, if you have a CV group in the area and an AI controlled floatplane identifies you by being within x range, the "surprise" attack by Milkman CV groups is out, or if on the ocean blue and in attack range of an enemy CV group, the enemy CV group in the area is alerted to your presence. Thus, you send CAP out to cover your convoys/CVs or take your chances.
If they were used like a port launched C-47, only some would have the proper payload and I don't know if any Seaplanes were used to drop paratroops--doubtful but since I don't know I'll leave it to you folks to figure out.
But some could carry substantial payloads and would be useful for resupply.
Also, if resupply convoys and merchant shipping become important, they'd be valuable for spotting those (again AI), or attacking as a bomber (H8K, PBY, Short Sunderland, some of the Italian jobs I think the Cant Z506 Heron carried a Whitehead Fiume or maybe as much as 2k in ordinance). They could grant perk points for succesful convoy escort as well (lose no ships = x points, etc.).
And, they make a nice addition if Submarines ever entered as an AI-controlled object for sub patrol or attacking.
If they are used in a recon role by a player, they should get an increased visibility range so as to make them useful enough to up. That is, a recon flying PBY/Sunderland/Emily would be able to identify an enemy CV group at a greater distance, making them a worthy ride. Since you had spotters with naval binoculars in those planes, this is not historically inaccurate as a fighter pilot watching his butt and dipping his wings to see with his 20/20 vision won't have the visibility a spotter would have had. You could get bomber perk points for doing so (call in a CV from a floatplane, rewarded x points). This makes them useful.
No reason we couldn't rescue downed pilots so that they got a better score for their ride (they were, after all, returned to base) and you got perk points for collecting their butts. The downed pilot could act as a gunner as well.