Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Belial on February 01, 2009, 04:32:45 PM

Title: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Belial on February 01, 2009, 04:32:45 PM
Ok when i'm bored one of my favorite thing's to do is join someone as a gunner.  I just wish you could attach more than 1 gunner at a time, 5 gunners firing at once in a b-17 would be wicked cool! ;)
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Spikes on February 01, 2009, 04:43:05 PM
I think they used to have this, it was removed because people would up a buff and get 11 gunners and go deathstar an airfield.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: NoBaddy on February 01, 2009, 04:50:26 PM
I think they used to have this, it was removed because people would up a buff and get 11 gunners and go deathstar an airfield.

No, never had multiple gunners here. HT says the choices are autogunners and 1 attached gunner or no auto and multiple gunners.

Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Spikes on February 01, 2009, 04:55:19 PM
No, never had multiple gunners here. HT says the choices are autogunners and 1 attached gunner or no auto and multiple gunners.


Was it in AH1, AW, or WB or something? I could have sworn that they had it somewhere and took it out.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Bronk on February 01, 2009, 04:55:40 PM
Was it in AH1, AW, or WB or something? I could have sworn that they had it somewhere and took it out.
AW
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Belial on February 01, 2009, 05:14:16 PM
I could see how they would argue against it because you have so much firepower, but it would make the game more fun.  And isnt the game about flying with your buddys and having fun doing it?
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: NoBaddy on February 01, 2009, 05:21:57 PM
I could see how they would argue against it because you have so much firepower, but it would make the game more fun.

Like I said, according to HT, the argument isn't about "firepower", it is about how vulnerable ungunned bombers can be. Because you have to chose between 1 gunner per position (means if you can't get a gunner...you are undefended) or what we have now. You can't have it both ways.

Quote from: Belial
And isnt the game about flying with your buddys and having fun doing it?

No, actually, the game is about combat and having fun doing it. :)

Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Spikes on February 01, 2009, 05:31:14 PM
AW

I knew it was one of those. :lol

Belial, the game also has to do with wingman tactics...not entirely stuffing your plane full of people and flying around in a buff all day.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Tec on February 01, 2009, 06:02:56 PM
I could see how they would argue against it because you have so much firepower.

Naw, having all guns locked together as they are is far more deadly than 5 dweebs all trying to aim at you would ever be.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Saxman on February 01, 2009, 06:18:11 PM
Until you put 5 999000's in those guns....

 :O
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: BnZs on February 01, 2009, 06:36:37 PM
Until you put 5 999000's in those guns....

 :O

...who told you about our cloning experiments....
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Belial on February 01, 2009, 06:54:08 PM
I dont know flying around in a guys plan eating pizza and drinkin beer waitin for a fight Bs'ing sounds fun to me. Oh and by the way multiple gunners is more realistic, real life didnt have drone gunners lobbing bullets.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: NoBaddy on February 01, 2009, 07:03:11 PM
I dont know flying around in a guys plan eating pizza and drinkin beer waitin for a fight Bs'ing sounds fun to me. Oh and by the way multiple gunners is more realistic, real life didnt have drone gunners lobbing bullets.


CLUE ENCLOSED: AH isn't reality....:)

Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: B4Buster on February 01, 2009, 10:07:16 PM
Would be too overpowering IMO. I up and buzz around a furball in 17s sometime, and by myself manage to get home after downing 3 or 4 planes...can't imagine what it would be like with 6 individual gunners
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: SectorNine50 on February 01, 2009, 11:33:08 PM
I say if you decide to have more than 1 gunner, your 3rd person view is disabled.  That view is enabled on bombers because you technically have gunners in all locations that could talk to the pilot.  With a gunner on every position, you would have them reporting to you.

This would be really fun in my opinion, would be really challenging for fighters as well.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Belial on February 02, 2009, 12:02:36 AM
Exactly it would be like hmm....being in real bombers with your squadron shooting with you...sounds like a good to me, everyone working together to accomplish a bombing run.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: EskimoJoe on February 02, 2009, 02:01:38 AM
I heard somewhere that they haven't done it because of lag issues. I could also be going crazy, so...
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: frank3 on February 02, 2009, 04:53:23 AM
Instead of having individual gunners for all positions, how about just assigning a single gunner to each drone?
That way you could have 2 gunners (with you gunning your own lead-plane) each with their 'own' aircraft.

I guess that should work?
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: FYB on February 02, 2009, 11:06:45 PM
I heard somewhere that they haven't done it because of lag issues. I could also be going crazy, so...
True, its been said and proven, 6 guys so close together can create lag.
I'd like this idea. it be funny watching 6 newbs trying to communicate saying check 6, no 12, no check 3, and then shooting at me, and missing 90% of the time.

-FYB
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Belial on February 03, 2009, 04:28:56 AM
True, its been said and proven, 6 guys so close together can create lag.
I'd like this idea. it be funny watching 6 newbs trying to communicate saying check 6, no 12, no check 3, and then shooting at me, and missing 90% of the time.

-FYB

What happens if the bombers get shot down and those "noobs" laugh and say lets do it again, and become good gunners who had fun?
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: frank3 on February 03, 2009, 05:35:14 AM
What happens if the bombers get shot down and those "noobs" laugh and say lets do it again, and become good gunners who had fun?

Then they've passed the age of 18  :)
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 03, 2009, 01:14:26 PM
What happens if the bombers get shot down and those "noobs" laugh and say lets do it again, and become good gunners who had fun?

It's rather a moot point considering this is a feature we'll never have in AH for the reason NB pointed out and for the lag/warp issues that would result.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 03, 2009, 01:15:08 PM
I think they used to have this, it was removed because people would up a buff and get 11 gunners and go deathstar an airfield.

AW had the Deathstars and they were never removed from the game. 


ack-ack
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: LLogann on February 03, 2009, 01:24:00 PM
Great for the bomber pilots who can't hit the "4" key. 

I need more gunners like I need more bad manners. 
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: thndregg on February 03, 2009, 01:40:39 PM
I gun for myself just fine. Just ask some that go after my Ki67's and meet the 20mm.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: AWwrgwy on February 03, 2009, 03:55:04 PM
AW had the Deathstars and they were never removed from the game. 


ack-ack

Also, in AW, without a gunner or gunners, you had no gunner.  It's easier to just gun for yourself than to find a gunner every time you want one.


wrongway
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: RMrider on February 03, 2009, 06:14:45 PM
I would love for this to happen, better this than 20 (or so) lazer guided .50s from 3 B17s all converging right on me.  :O   :lol
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Belial on February 04, 2009, 12:01:33 AM
i think you guys are missing the point, it isnt to make the bomber "deadlier" it is to encourage teamwork and a sense of realism of a bomber crew :lol
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Karnak on February 04, 2009, 12:56:16 AM
I would love for this to happen, better this than 20 (or so) lazer guided .50s from 3 B17s all converging right on me.  :O   :lol
They don't converge on you.  The guns from a single bomber fire in parallel to each other.  Each bomber's parallel streams of fire converge with the other two bombers parallel streams of fire at 500 yards or so.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: NoBaddy on February 04, 2009, 12:36:24 PM
i think you guys are missing the point, it isnt to make the bomber "deadlier" it is to encourage teamwork and a sense of realism of a bomber crew :lol

Actually, you are missing the point. HT has said that the choices are gun yourself with 1 possible gunner added or you can't gun yourself and can have a full load of gunners.  :rofl

Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Wedge1126 on February 04, 2009, 01:02:21 PM
They don't converge on you.  The guns from a single bomber fire in parallel to each other.  Each bomber's parallel streams of fire converge with the other two bombers parallel streams of fire at 500 yards or so.
AH is non-Euclidean?
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Karnak on February 04, 2009, 01:47:42 PM
AH is non-Euclidean?
This is what I mean:

(sorry about the bitmaps, but I needed to keep the images precise)

This is how most people seem to think bomber guns in AH work.  This is wrong:
(http://members.arstechnica.com/x/karnak/Not.bmp)

This is how they actually work:
(http://members.arstechnica.com/x/karnak/Yes.bmp)
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Anaxogoras on February 04, 2009, 01:49:36 PM
...and while you're at it, remove the warping drones from the game.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: aenigma on February 04, 2009, 01:52:07 PM
Was it in AH1, AW, or WB or something? I could have sworn that they had it somewhere and took it out.

Someone already answered but in AW we had a lot of fun in a fully manned buff and having that option now would be another element of game play worth having.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Lusche on February 04, 2009, 01:55:33 PM
AH is non-Euclidean?

In addition to Karnak's images:

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/fuzeman/Bomberguns.jpg)
(picture by Fuzeman)
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Wedge1126 on February 04, 2009, 02:19:43 PM
I was actually just making a jab at Karnak saying the streams were "parallel" and that they converge in the same sentence.

Otherwise, great illustrations for new players to learn from. Thanks.

Edit: I just noticed Karnak said the guns on a single bomber fire parallel streams, not that each bombers stream is parallel to the other bomber's stream. So, I was in error. Seriously now, is this true? The guns on a single bomber do not converge?
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Karnak on February 04, 2009, 02:25:56 PM
Wedge,

That is correct.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: JHerne on February 04, 2009, 04:03:01 PM
Technically, there would be a convergence point, albeit a slight one, given that different gun positions are just that - different gun positions. A top turret and a ball turret, for example, would have the height of the fuselage difference between them. With both turrets firing at a co-level target, one would be firing upward, one downward, with the convergence point being at the target, correct?

J
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Karnak on February 04, 2009, 04:10:42 PM
Technically, there would be a convergence point, albeit a slight one, given that different gun positions are just that - different gun positions. A top turret and a ball turret, for example, would have the height of the fuselage difference between them. With both turrets firing at a co-level target, one would be firing upward, one downward, with the convergence point being at the target, correct?

J
No, not correct.  The guns do not point at the target.  Look at my illustrations again.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: JHerne on February 04, 2009, 04:18:52 PM
Then what the hell is the sense of having linked guns, aside from wasting ammo?
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: NoBaddy on February 04, 2009, 06:30:46 PM
Then what the hell is the sense of having linked guns, aside from wasting ammo?

It looks really cool!! :)
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Anaxogoras on February 04, 2009, 06:44:28 PM
Then what the hell is the sense of having linked guns, aside from wasting ammo?

Besides the obvious function of allowing you 3 chances to hit instead of one when you fire at ranges past convergence?
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: Karnak on February 04, 2009, 08:25:26 PM
Then what the hell is the sense of having linked guns, aside from wasting ammo?
It is a shotgun effect.  It increases your odds of scoring hits.
Title: Re: Please add this if you care for bombers
Post by: RMrider on February 05, 2009, 10:30:29 AM
They don't converge on you.  The guns from a single bomber fire in parallel to each other.  Each bomber's parallel streams of fire converge with the other two bombers parallel streams of fire at 500 yards or so.

Yessir i know this, I should have worded that more correctly, as when i am in my own bombers  i can see that the cross at 500 yards or so. What i mean is that with every available gun still firing in your direction, nothing but bad things can happen for an attacking fighter. In WW2 many bombers could not fire their guns in fear of hitting a friendly Buff. This is where real life compares to the game i guess.