Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Klauss on February 05, 2009, 04:18:04 PM
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I've changed my mind on what 109G6 skin to make, but in order to get in in the game, i need more information on this if anybody can recognize this plane. This is all the information i have on it: "Bf 109 G-6AS “green 5” from 2.Erg. JG 2, Hagenow, Autumn 1944". I looked up many hours on the internet for it ( for the real plane ), didn't found anything. The plane has some sort of nose art, a yellow owl on a blue background. Maybe somebody can recognize it. I would apreciate all the help! <S> :aok
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/DSCN4514.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/DSCN4521.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/bf109g6asgreen5fw_1.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/bf109g6asgreen5fw_2.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/DSCN4528.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/DSCN4537.jpg)
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No info on the plane for ya, but I saw in the other thread you needed panel line help with the G-6. Here's what I got for ya:
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8779/800pxbf109g3seitenneulm5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109g6asgreen5fw_1.htm (http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109g6asgreen5fw_1.htm)
Same article, more pics(?)
http://www.ipmsusa2.org/reviews/Archive/Kits/Aircraft/Monogram_48_Bf109G6/Monogram_48_Bf109G6.htm (http://www.ipmsusa2.org/reviews/Archive/Kits/Aircraft/Monogram_48_Bf109G6/Monogram_48_Bf109G6.htm)
This is where the decal sheet came from:
http://www.luftfahrtverlag-start.de/EHomepage/DecalsEnglischOther/decalsenglischother.html (http://www.luftfahrtverlag-start.de/EHomepage/DecalsEnglischOther/decalsenglischother.html)
So far I can neither find the pictures the modeler referred to nor a profile anywhere.
wrongway
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USRanger, thank you for the picture, i had something very close. Wrongway, i'm stuck with the same 2 websites, i knew about the decals, but i just can't find where did that nose art came from (what JG). I am still looking for info on the plane. Nothing so far.
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USRanger, thank you for the picture, i had something very close. Wrongway, i'm stuck with the same 2 websites, i knew about the decals, but i just can't find where did that nose art came from (what JG). I am still looking for info on the plane. Nothing so far.
Open the file I sent you with the various JG emblems. See if you find one in there that matches.
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Getting Closer
http://www.owl.cz/pictures/max_navod_72004.jpg (http://www.owl.cz/pictures/max_navod_72004.jpg)
wrongway
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Good Job! Yes we are my friend! Think this plane is some sort of night based fighter (squad art is "yellow owl on dark blue background=dark sky/night), maybe that why the plane is all black. Look at the title of that link :D. And seems there were other type of planes in this "all black" sqd. Serenity gave me a pretty much complete list of sqd insignia, no yellow owl on blue background :(, maybe it was some sort of special sqd frome late in the war, or didn't have much action, that's my only explenation i can think ( in why we can't find real-life data on the plane ). Still, we are gettig close wrongway .Nice job once again! :salute
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It looks like it belongs to Nachtjagdgeschwader 1. But they had 109E-4
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Very interesting website http://images.google.ro/imgres?imgurl=http://www.michael-reimer.com/CFS2/CFS2_Profiles/ETO_AXIS_Luftwaffe_NJG1-Dateien/Messerschmitt_Bf_109E-4_G9JV_400x150.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.michael-reimer.com/CFS2/CFS2_Profiles/ETO_AXIS_Luftwaffe_NJG1.html&usg=__UArGhb0nSUGihhMrKlZjCdlR-PM=&h=150&w=400&sz=29&hl=ro&start=200&um=1&tbnid=nMdOpdL30hXTgM:&tbnh=47&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dme%2B109%2Bgreen%2B5%2Bnight%2Bfighter%26start%3D189%26ndsp%3D21%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dro%26sa%3DN . From what i understood, they took "normal" daylight planes, and did a 2 small things to make them night fighters, paint them black and have a letter or a number painted green. If somebody "saw" something i missed...i would be happy to know.
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Very interesting website http://images.google.ro/imgres?imgurl=http://www.michael-reimer.com/CFS2/CFS2_Profiles/ETO_AXIS_Luftwaffe_NJG1-Dateien/Messerschmitt_Bf_109E-4_G9JV_400x150.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.michael-reimer.com/CFS2/CFS2_Profiles/ETO_AXIS_Luftwaffe_NJG1.html&usg=__UArGhb0nSUGihhMrKlZjCdlR-PM=&h=150&w=400&sz=29&hl=ro&start=200&um=1&tbnid=nMdOpdL30hXTgM:&tbnh=47&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dme%2B109%2Bgreen%2B5%2Bnight%2Bfighter%26start%3D189%26ndsp%3D21%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dro%26sa%3DN . From what i understood, they took "normal" daylight planes, and did a 2 small things to make them night fighters, paint them black and have a letter or a number painted green. If somebody "saw" something i missed...i would be happy to know.
Thats where i get the info to.
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Erg. is an abbreviation for Ergänzungsgruppe. This aircraft seems to have been part of a training unit attached to JG2. Not sure why it would be black.
Night fighter units were quite simply 'NJG', 'Nachtjagdgeschwader', 'Night Fighter Wing'.
Edit; you know it's 3AM when you type 'Jagergeschwader'
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Ok, new info, i'll use that right now, see what i can find. Thank you. :aok
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Erg. is an abbreviation for Ergänzungsgruppe. This aircraft seems to have been part training unit attached to JG2. Maybe a night fighting training unit.
AH, i was wondering what "Erg." stood for. But Jg2 never have 109G in 44', They only flew them in 42-43. By 44-45 they where flying 190A,D
http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg2.htm (http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg2.htm)
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If what you say is 100% accurat with real-life, then "Bf 109 G-6AS “green 5” from 2.Erg. JG 2, Hagenow, Autumn 1944" is useless. The truth is it has no "bumps", May the decal manufacturer got it wrong? and it's in fact a whole other variant? F,G (not g6)?
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It is real. Found two decal site that has that exact info. As far as the other sites, nothing on Jg2 flying in 109G-6. However, you may have problem getting that skin on AH unless you can find documentation on it.
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But do go to this site. This guy worked hard to get as much info of FG/BG in WWII and so far i haven't found any real big error.
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I've e-mailed them few days ago, or more, and showed them the pictures of the plane, they didn't say anything about it, just that in order to get it in-game i must offer them exact info on how many combat/action it saw. I really hope i get some info on this sooner or later, and i am sure i will, since there is a model on the market, i assume it wasn't a plane that saw no action. I may get it very wrong, and in fact this model is on the market because it diff. then most (it's all blacK) and no action to it.
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What website, you sure you pasted the link :D
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Sorry
http://www.michael-reimer.com/CFS2/CFS2_Aircraft_Profiles.html (http://www.michael-reimer.com/CFS2/CFS2_Aircraft_Profiles.html)
Yea, i hope you find more info on that. She look sexy in black.
Go to NJG, you will find some black 109 and 110 on there.
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If what you say is 100% accurat with real-life, then "Bf 109 G-6AS “green 5” from 2.Erg. JG 2, Hagenow, Autumn 1944" is useless. The truth is it has no "bumps", May the decal manufacturer got it wrong? and it's in fact a whole other variant? F,G (not g6)?
It's a G6/AS, as listed. The AS variants of the G5, G6, and G14 had a modified engine for high altitude performance. Because of the engine, the whole cowling had to be enlarged, coincidentally where it had to be enlarged for the MG131's. As a result, they don't have the easily noticeable 'bumps', but the engine cowling does, more subtly, expand near the backward section.
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Thank you oakranger. Yes she is :D That's why i want her in-game. Motherland, got it, but why can't i find any reference on the internet about this plane? except same pics of the 1:32 model? If i only knew who flew that :rofl
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Keep this in mind. We are fortunate that AH expand the skin package for ppl to make them. But before you can get it on AH, they want to make sure that skin are accurate to that particular aircraft and accuracies of that skin. I enjoy seeing all type of skin for any plane and thankful for ppl doing them. I am trying to do one my self but not as talents as trulkill, Fester or krusty are.
As far as that web site. It is the only kind out there that i can find. He has been doing this since 2004 or 05. It is my understanding that there was somebody that had a better set up and a lot more pics. Supposedly he paid anyone that summit ed and kind of graphic skin work to him. Well, some ppl screw him over with inaccurate skin. There are other site you can used as back you, which is better to have more than one reference.
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Klass, got some good news. that 109 was once with Ergänzungs-Nachtjagdgruppe 2 in April 1944 before it was re-designated Ergänzungs-Jagdgeschwader 2 in November 1944.
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Another model. More info on the plane though.
http://www.ffmc.de/modelle/Frida/BF109G6AS/109G6.html (http://www.ffmc.de/modelle/Frida/BF109G6AS/109G6.html)
It's in German.
wrongway
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oakranger, wrongway, VERY GOOD JOB! :salute..oh...i'll start reading now....i'll light up a ciggar for that :D, very very good job, well, since this was a real plane in real life, i should get started on the skin, just imagine that all-black 109 :t
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When I've emailed HTC about this plane they said they need proof, or some kind of solid information that this plane saw action. What do they mean by "saw action". Do they reffer to the fact that they won't accept a plane that didn't shot down other plane/planes? or "action"= was used in the war/missions (with or without) taking down any other planes. By the way, do they only accept planes that saw "heavy" action or any kind of plane, even if it saw not so much action. I know I'm not fluent, but you guys understood what i am asking. <S>
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Not sure, you have to asked them to clarify "saw action". I hope they will accept it, nothing better then a black 109.
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By "saw action" they mean that it had to have made armed missions looking for the enemy. It doesn't necessarily had to have been in combat. Just was in a squadron and it flew into harms way during the war.
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Yes, maybe somebody from HTC answears here. But, until that happens, this is what I've found out so far: This plane "green 5" or "grune 5" by the ENJGr. 1. ,and on 02.11.1944 the name was changed in EJG 2. This change of name didn't alter in any way the squadron's planes/equipment/pilots, so our "green 5" was still there by this date. I personally wasn't able to find a real picture with the plane, nor something close, even a drawing, Just very accurate models of it. I will use the models to continue. This plane "green 5" flew with other Bf 109's G-6/AS and shot down british Mosq. at night.
This first picture shows the model at the airport of Hagenow (south of Berlin) in the winter of 1944/45.
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/Grune_5_winter03.jpg)
Second picture, "Green 5" in the autumn of 1944, Hagenow.
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/DSCN4521.jpg)
I found something about this plane in this book/magazine called "Luftwaffe im Focus", it's from the 4th edition of this book/magazine. Unfortunatly it was sold out.
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/Grune_5_book_Lufwaffe_im_focus_edit.jpg)
As you can see there are pictures with the real plane. (see the 5th bullet)
I admit i can't find any concludent info that this plane "saw action", but, as you can see, many people build models after it, write it about in books/magazines. All this after more than 60 years. I myself can say that this plane saw at least some action, more than enough than it needs to enter the game as a skin. Maybe somebody can give me a thumbs up/down from HTC staff. If it's a thumbs up, tomorow morning i will start working on it. :D
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Thank you for the clarification Larry, then this plane has 99.9% chance of getting in the game. Still need an official response, don't want to work on it and then get a big "no", anyway, good news so far.
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This should answer the quesion on its action during WWII
http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/ejg2.htm (http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/ejg2.htm)
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Very good website, nice find :aok, still waiting for some official response.