Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: redman555 on February 07, 2009, 10:05:08 PM
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Atleast in my view, the P-40 was a great plane back in WWII, but seems to me like in game its not very good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxu02bNuma4
-BigBOBCH
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Atleast in my view, the P-40 was a great plane back in WWII, but seems to me like in game its not very good
And on what facts are you basing this opinion other than a TV show?
Any hard data about power, climb rates, speed or turning performance that doesn't match the ingame performance?
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And on what facts are you basing this opinion other than a TV show?
Any hard data about power, climb rates, speed or turning performance that doesn't match the ingame performance?
in general, if you watch that video, talks about all of its great features and how great it was
-BigBOBCH
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in general, if you watch that video, talks about all of its great features and how great it was
-BigBOBCH
thought so...
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:lol
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This smells suspiciously like bait.
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And then there was someone in OClub yesterday telling us about the Military Channel:
they are not trying to entertain you, they are trying to educate you.
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This smells suspiciously like bait.
No hes not joking that is what makes it so funny!
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This smells suspiciously like bait.
Remembering all the previous messages I have read from the OP, I don't think so :uhoh
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in general, if you watch that video, talks about all of its great features and how great it was
-BigBOBCH
Pay very close attention to what you watch on the History Channel and you will find that, often, their accuracy is.........suspect. :noid
Quick example...show on the AVG...said their P40b's were armed with 20mm.
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Quick example...show on the AVG...said their P40b's were armed with 20mm.
SHH! Don't say anything like that. Next thing we know another dweeb will be on the Wishlist whining about it.
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thought so...
Snailman you're such a 'facts' bully. ;)
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Kinda funny that it says 'and fear it's six .50 caliber guns' as an earlier version with .30 cals in the wings flies past.
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Pay very close attention to what you watch on the History Channel and you will find that, often, their accuracy is.........suspect. :noid
Quick example...show on the AVG...said their P40b's were armed with 20mm.
However, they weren't flying P-40Bs..... Tomahawks, unique to the AVG... They got their own model, literally.
These fighters were not delivered with "government supplied equipment". IE: Guns, gun sights and radios. They were mostly equipped with commercial radios. Guns varied. All had two .50 cal Brownings, but there was a shortage of common caliber wing guns. So, some flew with US .30 cal (M1906 ammo) Brownings, some were fitted with British .303 Brownings and about 50% were armed with 7.92mm Brownings (standard Chinese caliber as adopted from Germany in 1899).
Curtiss built several variations of the P-40/Tomahawk.
H81: P-40/P-40A
H81B: P-40B and P-40C
H81A-1: Tomahawk I, Tomahawk IA, Tomahawk IB
H81A-2: Tomahawk IIA and Tomahawk IIB
H81A-3: AVG Tomahawks
Many historians have assumed that since the AVG planes came from a British order, they were Tomahawk IIB types as the serial numbers indicate. Wrong assumption. Serial numbers were assigned upon acceptance of the British contract, well before any procurement or manufacturing occurred. Since the Chinese didn't specify some of the items called for in the Brit contract, Curtiss didn't build them to the British specification. They had on hand, a large stockpile of externally seal fuel tanks remaining. These were written off when the USAAF contract specification was amended to require internal sealing of fuel tanks and the addition of plumbing and mounting for an external drop tank.
Curtiss nearly scrapped these, but the Chinese specification provided a use. In addition, engines were not available as Allison's entire production was already allocated. At considerable expense to the Chinese, Allison agreed to set up a special assembly line for manufacture of 170 engines (100 to be fitted and 70 spares). Additional engines would be backlogged into the regular production, but would not be available prior to 1942. This production line would build engines without much of the special tooling found on the main line. To facilitate faster delivery, Allison used parts rejected for the main line for tolerance discrepancies. To use these parts, the engines would have to carefully hand built, matching parts.
When the first engines were ready for run-in testing on the dynometer, Allison was stunned to discover that every engine produced between 1,225 and 1,270 hp. In some cases, more than 200 hp greater than the standard V1710-33 coming off of the main production line. A good thing, right? Well, yes and no. Yes, because the extra power enabled AVG Tomahawks to reach almost 370 mph as opposed to the 350 mph of the P-40B, or 340 mph for the heavier, higher drag P-40C/Tomahawk IIB. A bit better climb and acceleration were also added benefits. There was a downside. Allison knew that the spur geared reduction gear assembly of the V1710-33 was not designed for more than 1,100 hp (which is why the P-40D/E employed the V1710-39 with much stronger helical cut reduction gearing). They never said anything to the Chinese about this potential problem.
In service with the AVG, as hours piled up on engines, reduction gears began failing; shearing teeth. At least 17 AVG engines suffered these failures and 5 Tomahawks were written off or damaged in crash landings as a result. That was more than 20 times the frequency of failure seen for American and Brit models, where engines were worn out before the reduction gears required repair.
Trust me, you'll never get that type of history on any television show....
My regards,
Widewing
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This smells suspiciously like bait.
Didn't you see 420ace's old signature line?
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I don't think he has that one anymore.
I laughed my bellybutton off the first time I read that. I couldn't even think of a response, I don't think.
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Pay very close attention to what you watch on the History Channel and you will find that, often, their accuracy is.........suspect. :noid
Quick example...show on the AVG...said their P40b's were armed with 20mm.
The P-51 packed six 50mm guns.
Or the one show that had P51s fighting 109Es in 1943 but said the 109 packed two MGs and one cannon in the nose.
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They use gun camera footage from wherever and whenever. I have seen shots of a Spitfire Mk I firing its guns, camera tight to the wing, on a show about P-47s that never mentioned the Spitfire.
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YOU'RE KIDDING ME??????????? The p-40 has no power???? the p-40 is slow?????? Man my life is over.......kills in a p-40 must feel good though....although I cant recall one :o
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Hmmm WideWing why not on a TV show? I find nothing unusual in the utube video, the P-40's in that time frame were not going up against the zero but rather Mapes if I recall correctly.
TV often gets it right for the time frame discussed but then tends to make "general" statements which don't hold true over the course of the war.
I did find your info VERY interesting none the less.
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the P-40's in that time frame were not going up against the zero but rather Mapes if I recall correctly.
You mean KI-27 Nates I'm guessing?
(http://avia-hobby.ru/mb/pic/WW2_Jap/Ki27_la.jpg)
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You mean KI-27 Nates I'm guessing?
(http://avia-hobby.ru/mb/pic/WW2_Jap/Ki27_la.jpg)
Yes, Ki-27s were the predominant fighters in China/Burma at the end of 1941. However, they fared very badly against the 80 mph faster AVG Tomahawks. First generation Ki-43s were soon introduced. However, they weren't much faster than the Nate and suffered the same problem. The Tomahawks could disengage at will. Zeros were never in combat against the AVG. Being Naval fighters, they were not deployed in that theater. Early examples of the Zero were combat tested against the Chinese, but this was many months before the AVG deployed. Besides, the AVG was undergoing training in Burma until the Pearl Harbor attack. They had to learn the Tomahawks and Chennault's tactics.
My regards,
Widewing
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the P-40 sounds like a hairdryer
*ducks*
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LOL ok Nates at my age I forget why I went into a room in my house :o
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I'm not a bigbobCH fan, but I'm going to throw in with him on this one.
I have absolutely no performance numbers to actually back up this statement. But, I too feel that the P-40's performance is less than spectacular compared to what the 'history channels' say about it.
Yes, there are some folks in AH2 that can make the plane absolutely sing and dance. Dedalos comes to mind, but there are plenty of others. But for a normal, middle of the pack player, the P-40 doesn't do anything amazing compared to plenty of other planes in around the same timeframe in the planeset.
I've always chalked it up to the fact that after flying LW hotrods all the time, the P-40 will necessarily feel underpowered in comparison.
But, again, I have no evidence of how its numbers stack up to the real deal.
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I'm not a bigbobCH fan, but I'm going to throw in with him on this one.
I have absolutely no performance numbers to actually back up this statement.
Compare it to the p-39 or the f4f/fm2.
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I'm not a bigbobCH fan, but I'm going to throw in with him on this one.
I have absolutely no performance numbers to actually back up this statement. But, I too feel that the P-40's performance is less than spectacular compared to what the 'history channels' say about it.
Yes, there are some folks in AH2 that can make the plane absolutely sing and dance. Dedalos comes to mind, but there are plenty of others. But for a normal, middle of the pack player, the P-40 doesn't do anything amazing compared to plenty of other planes in around the same timeframe in the planeset.
I've always chalked it up to the fact that after flying LW hotrods all the time, the P-40 will necessarily feel underpowered in comparison.
But, again, I have no evidence of how its numbers stack up to the real deal.
When it flies against nada but D3a's (the equivalent of it's opposition) and Betty's, it does pretty well. There's a reason it was relegated to the back-water areas by '43, the same reason they built the P38....P47....P51
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A P40 with alt to work with is a dangerous machine. It can drop flaps at will and will stall turn with the best of em. It will turn on a dime if done right. That, added to the fact that every red icon within ID range will run at you with wild abandon expecting an easy kill makes it one sneaky bird. Like Mr. Eastwood said, "A man's gotta know his limitations". Well flown, a P40 can be a killer.
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Pay very close attention to what you watch on the History Channel and you will find that, often, their accuracy is.........suspect. :noid
Quick example...show on the AVG...said their P40b's were armed with 20mm.
I believe the C or D did have a mount for the 20mm's in the wings although never poroduced at the factory, it may be possible to have a few field modded? The mount was removed in the E model.
"The radiator was increased in size and moved forward, 175 pounds of armour was added, the fuselage guns were deleted, and two 0.50 inch machine guns with new hydraulic chargers were installed in each wing. There were additional provisions in the wings for two 20 mm cannon, but these were never actually used"
" An order dated February 18, 1941 increased the armament to six guns in the wings, and subsequent aircraft equipped with this armament were designated P-40E (Model 87-B2). The cannon mounts (which were never used in any case) were deleted."
?
H81: P-40/P-40A
H81B: P-40B and P-40C
H81A-1: Tomahawk I, Tomahawk IA, Tomahawk IB
H81A-2: Tomahawk IIA and Tomahawk IIB
H81A-3: AVG Tomahawks
"During 1941, 100 RAF Tomahawk IIBs were released and diverted to China and served with the American Volunteer Group (AVG), the famous "Flying Tigers". Curtiss company records list them as Model H81-A3. The Tomahawk IIB was more or less equivalent to the P-40C, but some sources list the Flying Tiger Tomahawks as being equivalent to the P-40B. As previously mentioned, there are some discrepancies between Curtiss records matching Tomahawk designations to RAF serials and to equivalent US Army P-40 models, so there is confusion on this point. Erik Shilling, who was a member of the AVG and who was also a flight leader and an engineering officer for the group, maintains that the aircraft with the AVG were actually export models of the P-40B and not the C (after all, he was there and he ought to know). He says that the aircraft did not have the equipment to carry the external 52 gallon drop tank, nor were they equipped with bomb shackles. In addition all of the fuel tanks had external self-sealing material, not internally mounted sealing material as in the "C" model. Also the Model "C" had armour plate in the front, ahead of the pilot, installed on the firewall between the two 50 calibre's, the AVG's planes did not."
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When discussing how the P-40E is modeled in-game, please consider it's actually OVER-powered, as-is. I think it was WW or somebody else that pointed out the power and climb curves for our in-game P-40E more closely match those of a P-40K (or was it L?), and that the real P-40E did not have WEP like ours does.