Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: oakranger on February 09, 2009, 09:45:19 AM
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We really need to perk the Wirbelwind. It take a beating like a tiger and its guns are lethal up to 1.5k.
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Takes a beating like a Tiger??? Hmmmmmmmm, no it really doesn't normally. You usually see them getting killed with one shot or two at the most and I can tell you that auto ack can make very quick work of them. What's wrong with lethal up to 1.5K? Auto ack guns will pluck you right out of the sky way above that.
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Don't perk it.
Just randomize the rounds like they did with the Ostwind.
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We really need to perk the Wirbelwind. It take a beating like a tiger and its guns are lethal up to 1.5k.
Ive killed plenty of both and the wirbel isnt even close to a Tiger in toughness. And they are fairly easy to take out, all you need are 2 or 3 aircraft working in tandem and drop on the thing together. Against Tanks, any kind of tanks, they are chopped Liver. I'll bet even an M-8 or an Ostie can kill a wirbel almost every time. I get shot down by wirbels all the time but dont take it personal. Its my own fault Im in range of the thing in the first place.
On the other hand vulching is not quite so easy with wirbels around. However if you have ords for a VH and/or GVs they are easily dealt with.
One thing is I see a lot less of is those 45 min. score padding vulchfests going on. I dont see what perking them would accomplish, other then helping those few who think they have a right to fly low around enemy bases.
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Takes a beating like a Tiger??? Hmmmmmmmm, no it really doesn't normally. You usually see them getting killed with one shot or two at the most and I can tell you that auto ack can make very quick work of them. What's wrong with lethal up to 1.5K? Auto ack guns will pluck you right out of the sky way above that.
Too man y times i seem one get scarfed by 10-15-20 planes. we hit it with bombs, rockets, .50 cal, 20mm, 30mm. Just wont die that easy. As far as the ack, you have one than one shooting at you.
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Before you all get excited, read this thread: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257973.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,257973.0.html). The Wirbel did not have a powered turret like it does in AH, and consequently its rate of traverse was significantly slower than what we have. What's more, the ammo came in small clips and had to constantly be reloaded, and so the practice was to only fire two guns at a time.
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I'll bet even an M-8 or an Ostie can kill a wirbel almost every time.
We have noticed that 1 or 2 shots from an M8 kills the turret allowing you to bypass it or manuever for the kill. That is unless he has supplies. :(
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Maybe the Tiger has gone soft.
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Too man y times i seem one get scarfed by 10-15-20 planes. we hit it with bombs, rockets, .50 cal, 20mm, 30mm. Just wont die that easy. As far as the ack, you have one than one shooting at you.
I kill them all the time with a few shots from an IL-2, or a single shot from a tank. I dont take videos of it cause I dont think killing a wirbel is worthy of a video. I do however take videos of killing Tigers and I'll show you a few passes of what was a long ordeal, killing a overturned Tiger , driven by FBBob, in LWB last night. I went thru two IL-2s full of cannon and thats not even counting the bombs dropped. A wirbel would simply have taken a spritz of MG fire and a few hits of cannon.
They were, are, mounted on a tank chassis. You shouldn't expect to kill them with fighter rounds designed to kill other fighters. But you can at least put them out of action with 0.50s. Try doing that against a Tiger.
The Wirbel did not have a powered turret like it does in AH, and consequently its rate of traverse was significantly slower than what we have. What's more, the ammo came in small clips and had to constantly be reloaded, and so the practice was to only fire two guns at a time.
What about all the other GVs you'd have to do the same with? All the aircraft are modeled in ridiculous "easy mode" too. When I get this video uploaded I'll show it to you, even tho it only shows the end of what was a long ordeal. FBBob started off with a wirbel watching his back at the spawn. Had the flak stayed with him he probably never would have gotten killed, and without free wirbels the GV'ers would suffer heavily.
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Whirbles have little to no armor protecting the turret.
No need to perk, but perhaps you need to TA more.
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Too man y times i seem one get scarfed by 10-15-20 planes. we hit it with bombs, rockets, .50 cal, 20mm, 30mm. Just wont die that easy. As far as the ack, you have one than one shooting at you.
I don't know who was doing all of that attacking on one Wirbel, but something was either up or they need some TA time or something. I usually never have a problem with killing them with bombs, now with rockets and anything else, I'm not that good but usually with 1000 lb. bombs it's pretty easy. I'll shoot you a pm explaining how I do it.
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What about all the other GVs you'd have to do the same with? All the aircraft are modeled in ridiculous "easy mode" too.
Please be more specific.
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We really need to perk the Wirbelwind. It take a beating like a tiger and its guns are lethal up to 1.5k.
my wirbles seem to die rather quickly.
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Another vulch gone Bad? Why perk any ground vehicle on here. To easy to get the perks to use them, what if you die you going to lose 5 perks. These post on perking the WW are to funny. As far as WW and M8 I very seldom lose one to an M8 cause with supps it will eat M8 up, same with an IL2. Before I attack a base I will lay a line of supps out just for IL2s and eat em up. Perking is not the answer. Kill VH and all WW before you start the vulch.
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Another vulch gone Bad?...Kill VH and all WW before you start the vulch.
If you're implying that the Wirbelwind is only used defensively, then we must be playing different games. ;)
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Hello Oaktree,
I respect the heck out of you Sir. With that said, I disagree with any perk being placed on the Wirbel. Like any other plane or vehicle in this game, it is vulnerable to attack/destruction when handled properly.
<Salute>
Way
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We really need to perk the Wirbelwind. It take a beating like a tiger and its guns are lethal up to 1.5k.
The Wirblewind in no way of being worthy of any perks, it's not indestructable and can be easily rendered useless due to its open turret.
If you're in a fighter, just dive on one from, coming straight at it and when you get within run range, fire and your rounds will hit the open turret. It usually only takes a nice solid burst to take out the turret. If you have bombs, it makes it so much easier to kill. The IL2 is also pretty decent at taking them out but unfortunately, you do have to get within run range of the WW and that might present some risk. You can also use a B-25H (my preferred ride for this) and use the 75mm to take out the WW from beyond its gun range.
ack-ack
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I am not saying that it should be perk like a tiger. Just a little perk. Also, how many times have any of you guy come across the 251? I must have seen it 5 times since it came out.
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I am not saying that it should be perk like a tiger. Just a little perk. Also, how many times have any of you guy come across the 251? I must have seen it 5 times since it came out.
If you're gonna perk something, PERK IT!!
None of this "just a little perk" stuff.
How would a "little" perk on the WW affect the way you or anyone else plays the game?
I'm guessing it wouldn't change it at all.
I really don't get the "perk this" and "perk that" all the time on these boards.
How will it affect game play overall?
It won't.
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If the wirble gets perked then perk the IL2 and the B25H to 1 strafe run on a wirble puts you in the tower.
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If the wirble gets perked then perk the IL2 and the B25H to 1 strafe run on a wirble puts you in the tower.
IL2 - maybe. never been in one but be shot down but a few.
B25H- NO. Takes to long to reload and a lot can happen in between.
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Lower the eny and I'm good. orrrr fix the turret traverse speed and the ability to tape the trigger down in quad mode.
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Lower the eny and I'm good. orrrr fix the turret traverse speed and the ability to tape the trigger down in quad mode.
+2.
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+3
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The WW and Oswind should be perked for the same reason the 262 is, they just didn't make many of them.
Most of the German mobile AA was truck mounted and suseptable to destruction from the air by GUN fire, both the 37mm and 20mm guns were truck mounted and later halftrack mounted, the WW and OW were tried and found to be too expensive for the results.
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Well no one posted it yet so perk the:
spit16
LA7
N1K
Let the complaining begin.
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Well no one posted it yet so perk the:
spit16
LA7
N1K
Let the complaining begin.
Of those 3, only one actually merits a perk based on performance and over-all ability.
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Of those 3, only one actually merits a perk based on performance and over-all ability.
Ya but i felt like stirring the pot.
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They didn't make many FlakPanzer's? Stop reading wiki, it's always wrong.
The WW and Oswind should be perked for the same reason the 262 is, they just didn't make many of them.
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The WW and Oswind should be perked for the same reason the 262 is, they just didn't make many of them.
Most of the German mobile AA was truck mounted and suseptable to destruction from the air by GUN fire, both the 37mm and 20mm guns were truck mounted and later halftrack mounted, the WW and OW were tried and found to be too expensive for the results.
Ummm when was the last time you witnessed a 500+ mph osti/ww?
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Ummm when was the last time you witnessed a 500+ mph osti/ww?
Last time I discoed in one :D
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They didn't make many FlakPanzer's? Stop reading wiki, it's always wrong.
and YOUR authority is...........??? I NEVER quoted Wiik or whatever, but I get a kick out you kids that look at historical facts and then say they are incorrect. Sorta like the idiots that say the holocost didn't happen.
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The WW and Oswind should be perked for the same reason the 262 is, they just didn't make many of them.
Most of the German mobile AA was truck mounted and suseptable to destruction from the air by GUN fire, both the 37mm and 20mm guns were truck mounted and later halftrack mounted, the WW and OW were tried and found to be too expensive for the results.
I think there is a bit more to perking 262s than based on their number.
Wirbles and Ostis, take out their turrets. Wirbles do seem to sometimes take an inordinate amount of hull damage to kill, however. Once the turret is gone, they're hard to finish off.
wrongway
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Sorta like the idiots that say the holocost didn't happen.
What's holocost?
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What's holocost?
Mel Gibson? I loved that Irish movie you made.
:noid
wrongway
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Ummm when was the last time you witnessed a 500+ mph osti/ww?
and your point is???? I made my comment based on availabilty NOT performance.
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No really...what's holocost?
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The WW and Oswind should be perked for the same reason the 262 is, they just didn't make many of them.
The ME 262 is not perked because of rarity and by the way, the ME 262 wasn't a rare aircraft at all, with 1400 being built over all.
Perks are based on whether or not a particular aircraft will unbalance the game play if it wasn't perked.
ack-ack
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I made my comment based on availabilty NOT performance.
The 262s perk is based on performance NOT availability.
AKAK beat me to it. He's like the forum ninja.
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Call me oldschool but I stick to my ostwind!
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What's holocost?
If thats a shot at my spelling go see Hitech ;)
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Perks are based on whether or not a particular aircraft will unbalance the game play if it wasn't perked.
ack-ack
Bingo :aok
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Call me oldschool but I stick to my ostwind!
Word, I think I need to get back into the Osti for a while. Getting too used to the WW ballistics.
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The ME 262 is not perked because of rarity and by the way, the ME 262 wasn't a rare aircraft at all, with 1400 being built over all.
Perks are based on whether or not a particular aircraft will unbalance the game play if it wasn't perked.
ack-ack
How many saw action?? You count all those that were in production at the close of the war?? AND if it so unblances game play WHY is it even in the MA and not just held for senario's (which IMO is where it belongs)
Even 1400 compared to the 109 or 190 numbers is small indeed.
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We really need to perk the Wirbelwind.
No.
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How many saw action?? You count all those that were in production at the close of the war?? AND if it so unblances game play WHY is it even in the MA and not just held for senario's (which IMO is where it belongs)
Even 1400 compared to the 109 or 190 numbers is small indeed.
The numbers argument for perking doesn't hold up. Just look at the Ta-152, or for a less extreme example the 3-cannon La-7.
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The numbers argument for perking doesn't hold up. Just look at the Ta-152, or for a less extreme example the 3-cannon La-7.
:aok Yuppers
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The numbers argument for perking doesn't hold up. Just look at the Ta-152, or for a less extreme example the 3-cannon La-7.
Well I was around when perking first began and KNOW why it began, and while numbers are not THE reason for perking a vehicle it has been bandied around for years as a reason some should be.
The Chog caused the first whine about unbalance and wanting a way to limit them, and perking was born. Just because I don't post much doesn't mean I haven't been around for awhile.
The WW and OS are tuff for aircraft to kill in this game (without bombs) and are used in ways that were never intended when introduced IMHO and therefore (to use your words) unbalance the game and need to be perked.
I doubt that they will be but I think they should be, but then again I am of the opinion that we should all get a certain amount of perks per month and lose them if not used and ALL vehicles be perked except for a few basic planes and as your perks go down your plane choices go down (gives you a reason to not want to die in your toon plane)
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Well I was around when perking first began and KNOW why it began, and while numbers are not THE reason for perking a vehicle it has been bandied around for years as a reason some should be.
Rarity or numbers produced should not dictate what planes gets perked. Not saying that you're one of them but those that cry for planes to be perked based on numbers are those that usually find themselves on the wrong end of the plane they want perked. The current determination on whether a plane deserves to be perked on whether or not they unbalance the game play is the way to go.
So using that determination, the WW nor the Ostie deserve to be perked.
The WW and OS are tuff for aircraft to kill in this game (without bombs) and are used in ways that were never intended when introduced IMHO and therefore (to use your words) unbalance the game and need to be perked.
No one has shown a valid reason for either GVs to be perked. They are not tough to kill as long as you use the proper tactics. I find it very easy to render an Ostie or a WW useless by diving on its turret and taking it out with .50 cals (if I'm in a P-38) or with the 75mm howitzer on the B-25H. Sure, I get shot down from time to time but more often than not, I leave a smoking, useless AA GV instead.
Please show some valid reasons why any of these two GVs unbalance the game.
I doubt that they will be but I think they should be, but then again I am of the opinion that we should all get a certain amount of perks per month and lose them if not used and ALL vehicles be perked except for a few basic planes and as your perks go down your plane choices go down (gives you a reason to not want to die in your toon plane)
The above comment is all I need to know about what kind of player you are. You expect things to be handed to you without having to work for it and cry when it isn't. I'm sure you also want planes like the Spitfire Mk XVI, N1K2, LA-7, P-51D, FW 190D-9 and many other planes perked because you just can't take the time to learn how to fight them. Yep, you're just one of the lemmings.
ack-ack
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You know, I decided to pull a Lusche and look up some stats.........
There may be an argument for perking the Wirble. Last tour it had the highest K/D of any non-perked ride.
Same with this tour..... Aside from a slight K/D advantage by the ta152.
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The number of posts you have show the type of player you are ack-ack, not sure who you think you are but I have been playing these as long as you and perhaps longer. Your self back slapping and your HUGH post numbers in no way make you KING of the hill.
I remember waay back when it was 6 bucks an hour to fly AW and I posted that I thought it was too much and all the fanboiz like you started telling me how it couldn't EVER be done to lower the price yada yada yada and now here we are....guess Dale didn't believe them either.
When I started playing these things it was on the Sierra network with 4 plane max with Red Baron (where by the way the AK's first started as a squad ALONG with the Pigstompers, my handle then was BigJim as it is now in the game just stuck with this boxboy thing on the bbs), I moved to AW when Finn and KESMAI brought it to the USA from Japan if I recall correctly.
So you can get off your horse about telling folks who they are or what they want, you have no right to do that whatsoever.
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Well no one posted it yet so perk the:
spit16
LA7
N1K
Let the complaining begin.
La 7 = YES
Spit16 = Maybe
N1K = Not worthey to be Perk
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La 7 = YES
Spit16 = Maybe
N1K = Not worthey to be Perk
Try again. :P
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Try again. :P
spit perk?
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For you young-dume bucks. He is something on Flak Units.
http://www.ww2.dk/ (http://www.ww2.dk/)
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We ran up on a V-base in a flight of 7 or 8 jugs and after it was all said and done all hangars were down, and all the wirbles were dead and the only remaining one was turreted.
all the jugs were out of ord by now and just had guns.
long story short then wirble drove over and parked at the map room, soaked up around 18,000 5 cal rounds plus some 20mm from a spitty that was around all the aircraft in the area completely emptied their guns on it, and it just sat there, we figured MAYBE since it had been hit so much that the hull gun was dead, so we rolled in troops.. nope.. picked em all off, and jsut remained sitting there till the first hangar popped and of course came the wirble flood and it was over (we had ord on the way but it was too late, was a long flight)
thats the only beef I have with the wirble, it cannot be tracked and the hull gun cannot be killed with MG fire.. no matter from what angle or how much of it.. granted its a tough chassis, and you shouldn't be able to pop one with a couple rounds of 50 cal.. on the extreme other hand though it shouldn't be literally immune to over 15,000 hits either... you strafe anything from that era with that much 50 cal its going to be out of commission.. the tracks would be for sure.
that and the only place you will see a M16 now is.. nowhere.
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We ran up on a V-base in a flight of 7 or 8 jugs and after it was all said and done all hangars were down, and all the wirbles were dead and the only remaining one was turreted.
all the jugs were out of ord by now and just had guns.
long story short then wirble drove over and parked at the map room, soaked up around 18,000 5 cal rounds plus some 20mm from a spitty that was around all the aircraft in the area completely emptied their guns on it, and it just sat there, we figured MAYBE since it had been hit so much that the hull gun was dead, so we rolled in troops.. nope.. picked em all off, and jsut remained sitting there till the first hangar popped and of course came the wirble flood and it was over (we had ord on the way but it was too late, was a long flight)
thats the only beef I have with the wirble, it cannot be tracked and the hull gun cannot be killed with MG fire.. no matter from what angle or how much of it.. granted its a tough chassis, and you shouldn't be able to pop one with a couple rounds of 50 cal.. on the extreme other hand though it shouldn't be literally immune to over 15,000 hits either... you strafe anything from that era with that much 50 cal its going to be out of commission.. the tracks would be for sure.
that and the only place you will see a M16 now is.. nowhere.
THANK YOU FOR STEPPING UP AND SPEAK. This is what i and other come across. That dam thing can take a beating like a tiger.
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THANK YOU FOR STEPPING UP AND SPEAK. This is what i and other come across. That dam thing can take a beating like a tiger.
No, it takes a beating like a panzer. Try using only 50's to blow one of those up and call me.
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I doubt that they will be but I think they should be, but then again I am of the opinion that we should all get a certain amount of perks per month and lose them if not used and ALL vehicles be perked except for a few basic planes and as your perks go down your plane choices go down (gives you a reason to not want to die in your toon plane)
LOL, we should be given perks every month? The first few days of each camp are bad enough with score weenies scampering about in tempests and 262's, that'd you like to exagerate the issue? Thankfully most of the guys blow their perks and their scores early and settle into actually fighting each other (sometimes) instead of popsiclefooting around.
What's the matter, can't earn enough perks to fly those select rides that they have to be given to you? Sad thing is I bet a lot of players would love it if HT did give everyone a monthly stipend of perks. Thank god he won't though.
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Sad thing is I bet a lot of players would love it if HT did give everyone a monthly stipend of perks. Thank god he won't though.
I am in for a one day that all perk rides are free.
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I am in for a one day that all perk rides are free.
And that day would make me long for Titanic Tuesday.
Like I said...
:(
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That dam thing can take a beating like a tiger.
M8 can kill a WW in 4 hits, 3 if you want to be brave and skip the first hit to turret it. Try that on a Tiger and see how it works out for you. A bomb landing near a WW can kill it, a tiger requires a direct hit(unless using the cookie or the VW). A handfull of 50's can turret a WW, 50s x infinity won't do anything but annoy the driver in a Tiger. As far as the tracks go every tracked vehicle in game can be tracked by well placed 50s or 20mm.
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they are free in the DA just no 262. of course you know what goes on in there. lol
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LOL, we should be given perks every month? The first few days of each camp are bad enough with score weenies scampering about in tempests and 262's, that'd you like to exagerate the issue? Thankfully most of the guys blow their perks and their scores early and settle into actually fighting each other (sometimes) instead of nosefooting around.
What's the matter, can't earn enough perks to fly those select rides that they have to be given to you? Sad thing is I bet a lot of players would love it if HT did give everyone a monthly stipend of perks. Thank god he won't though.
whats the matter stang you afraid someone might get ya in a 262?? In my world of AH there would be NO 262's in the MA, perk or otherwise. My idea was to to perk ALL rides and make it so when you lost those "hot" rides you would be down to P-40's or FM2's. As far as "earning" perks I could get all I want if that was what I wanted to do in fact not sure what I have now but I pick my ride for preferance not score.
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No, it takes a beating like a panzer. Try using only 50's to blow one of those up and call me.
That's exactly what I was going to reiterate. Using just 50's and maybe a few 20mm is going to do absolutely nothing to most of the gv's. Little bomblets and rockets will do wonders that's if the rockets hit in the right spot and don't go glancing off to the side.
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whats the matter stang you afraid someone might get ya in a 262?? In my world of AH there would be NO 262's in the MA, perk or otherwise. My idea was to to perk ALL rides and make it so when you lost those "hot" rides you would be down to P-40's or FM2's. As far as "earning" perks I could get all I want if that was what I wanted to do in fact not sure what I have now but I pick my ride for preferance not score.
HEY! Don't knock the FM-2! :furious
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You know, I decided to pull a Lusche and look up some stats.........
There may be an argument for perking the Wirble. Last tour it had the highest K/D of any non-perked ride.
Same with this tour..... Aside from a slight K/D advantage by the ta152.
Think about it ... in order for a WW to get a kill on a planes ... the plane has to attack it ... it can't chase them down.
The only thing that that stat tells me is that there are a whole lot of people who have not figured out how to neuter a WW and think that they might get lucky flying straight at it with guns ablaze.
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HEY! Don't knock the FM-2! :furious
Shhhhh ... let him think the FM2 is not a threat ... :noid
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spit perk?
Between the La-7, Spit XVI, and N1K, the Spitfire XVI is the only one that has no exploitable weakness other than only having a good top speed.
The La-7 cannons have poor ballistics, and the lion is tamed above 5k ft, and becomes a kitten above 10k ft.
The N1K cannons also have poor ballistics, but it's less of an issue because it's not a big deal if you miss. Still, its roll rate is poor, and its top speed is mediocre.
The Spitfire XVI performs well up to 20k ft, which is what counts for the main arena. Its weapons package has great ballistics, resulting in a flat trajectory that is easy to aim at most distances. Its climbrate is comparable to the 109K-4, at 200mph it has the best roll-rate in the game, and unlike its brother and sister Spitfires, it rolls very well at 400mph ias. It even accelerates better than the Spitfire VIII (even if you reduce the VIII's fuel load). Did I mention it turns extraordinarily well? Lastly, it carries 1k lbs of bombs, an ability which receives less attention than it should in the game. Admittedly, the XVI is not as fast as the main arena speed demons; its top speed is only in the "good" category. ;)
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Think about it ... in order for a WW to get a kill on a planes ... the plane has to attack it ... it can't chase them down.
Or the plane has to be attacking a hangar or ammo bunker, or it might be chasing another plane over a spawn point, etc.
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Or the plane has to be attacking a hangar or ammo bunker, or it might be chasing another plane over a spawn point, etc.
Again ... it's not the WW's fault ... chalk it up to bad SA and/or a poor attack plan.
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Can't argue with that! :aok
Again ... it's not the WW's fault ... chalk it up to bad SA and/or a poor attack plan.
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I love how when I point out that wirbels kill aircraft in more ways than simply being attacked, it gets twisted into an assertion that it's the wirbel's fault that it shoots someone, e.g. attacking a hangar. All I'm saying is that we can't believe the fantasy that most wirbel kills are in self-defense of the wirbel itself; the majority are in defending something/someone else from attack, or are purely opportunistic using the element of surprise.
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I don't think either has to do with eachother. Have you ever killed ord while 2 WW's are on the base? Yes, me too. But it certainly is the nice direct attack, no you got to think about your angles a little better. That's what Chalenge is saying. And what your saying is also true, but that is still WW defense of.... itself, a tank, a building.
I love how when I point out that wirbels kill aircraft in more ways than simply being attacked, it gets twisted into an assertion that it's the wirbel's fault that it shoots someone, e.g. attacking a hangar. All I'm saying is that we can't believe the fantasy that most wirbel kills are in self-defense of the wirbel itself; the majority are in defending something/someone else from attack, or are purely opportunistic using the element of surprise.
It all comes down to how you want to slice it.
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Simple reason it will not be perked.
ITS TOO MUCH DAMN FUN PISSING EVERYONE OFF.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,231665.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,231665.0.html)
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All I'm saying is that we can't believe the fantasy that most wirbel kills are in self-defense of the wirbel itself; the majority are in defending something/someone else from attack, or are purely opportunistic using the element of surprise.
That may well be the case, but I don't agree ... from my perspective in using the WW (or an Ostwind) over the past 7+ years, unless your in the "Zazen Zone" (and 98% of the players aren't ... me included), I would tend to believe that most of the WW's kills are by defending itself due to the fact that it is not simple hitting a target that is moving 300+ mph ... unless it's coming directly at you.