Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: skullman on February 09, 2009, 05:27:51 PM
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we need to have them perk the new IL.It is almost impossible to get anywhere with them things around.The new patch made them too uber.Would really feel good unloading a weeble on em
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we need to have them perk the new IL.It is almost impossible to get anywhere with them things around.The new patch made them too uber.Would really feel good unloading a weeble on em
Perk your ww also?
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PTW!!!!!
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we need to have them perk the new IL.It is almost impossible to get anywhere with them things around.The new patch made them too uber.Would really feel good unloading a weeble on em
Again, the IL2 isn't worthy of being perked. If you don't want to be killed by one there are things you can do to prevent it.
1) Use AA GVs to defend the other GVs from air attack. I know, it's a novel concept and might be beyond your comprehension but it does work.
2) Bring along air support to defend the attacking GV force from air opposition. I know, another novel concept and one that probably doesn't appeal to you much because it does involve flying an airplane and I know how much you lemmings detest doing something that remotely takes any skill.
Just those two bits of advice will go a long way in preventing your GV from being killed by the nasty guy in the IL2.
ack-ack
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Sit in the spawn with Osti after dropping vehicle supplies & let the fun begin. IL-2 is not much chop when your hitting them 2k or so out.
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Sit in the spawn with Osti after dropping vehicle supplies & let the fun begin. IL-2 is not much chop when your hitting them 2k or so out.
Bingo. Osti rounds hurt an IL from distance.
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There are a lot of trump cards in this sim/game. No matter what aircraft or gv you or they are in, there is always a trump card. Always.
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Again, the IL2 isn't worthy of being perked.
Sadly, some are calling for the 37mm Stuka to be perked before it even gets released.
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I :salute HTC for the new IL2. It's these historical planes they modified that changes the complexities of the game. It's not just ords you have to kill now its BH's too. Before this BH's were never touched and HTC did the right thing. If you don't like your panzer being killed then up a WW with tanks. We all love to wing up and dominate in the skies why not the ground?
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mild hijack, anyone else love the cyclical nature of spawns?
1 up a tank into nme field
2 il-2 kills tank
3 tanker comes back in osti/wirb and kills il2
4 il-2 comes back in m8/tank to kill osti/wirb
5 repeat
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yep ya have to up in at least pairs due to it or my fav is up a tank to entice and the the weeble of death for the spanking.Over time I have learned to use the pintle and main gun for defense.Slow shallow dive and I will lay an he round in your cockpit.I wish the pintle was a lil stronger.Love ripping into a big radial engine.I forgot who it was but I was being strafed in an m3 and pilot wounded him with the 50.He started whining about it and I said I was using the same gun as him I just had 5 less
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No need to Perk the IL. It is a good counterbalance to the Wirbel. Proper tactics will ensure that it is a non-issue or a minimized threat.
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I must have killed a numbers guy a dozen times yesterday when he kept upping Panzers. He would upp, just sit there alone, try and launch the odd shell my way, and I'd kill him with a burst from my IL-2. While I admire his stubbornness he'll probably go to his grave thinking IL-2s should be perked. Thats the mind set of the tankers in this game. They think they should be allowed to upp, motor where they want, and run up kills with no interference. Thats pretty much what they had before the IL-2. If you saw a Lone 110 pulling a suicide to take out a bases ords I guarantee you 9 out of 10 times you'd see the same guy motoring in, seconds later, in his pimped out Tiger.
But now the game is much more multi-dimensional. I was in two big time combined arms battles yesterday in LWB. We lost the first one and won the 2nd. Each time the enemy used flak and fighter support to support their armor and it was very effective. Many times our Storm birds couldn't even get close to their armor. The first battle they got their flaks into town with very good gunners in them and a couple times I lost IL-2s from the flaks trying to kill M-3s. The Storm birds are NOT dominant. They are effective but not dominant. 20mm, 37mm flak chews them up. Tanks are actually very effective against them. I even had M-3s force me to land with good 0.50 gunning. The fact of the matter is the Storm birds do take a thumping. They get shot down all the time.
But the days of Low riding into a town or base with your frilled out Sherman are also over. What do you think the odds were of a single tank surviving on the eastern front when operating alone anyways?
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i Agree with ya rich-it is evened out and forces cooperation.I really like a capture when you can use all aspects of combat-sending in bombers with escorts and combined armour attack.Seems to be a more rounded attack
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I wonder what will happen if HTC ever gives the 25H its AP pumpkins....
:D
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I wonder what will happen if HTC ever gives the 25H its AP pumpkins....
:D
It would result in a whine that was heard around the world.
ack-ack
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It'd be worth it just to see the "Perk the 25!" threads on the Wishlist.
But seriously, give the 25 its AP!
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I was just in Tard-Tues. and got sick with all the heavy bombers used as dive bombers on GVs. At A1 Nits just kept re-upping, it was like a shooting gallery. I may kill a lot of GVs with IL-2s but I use strictly cannon, never use bombs "cant hit nothin anyways", and any GV'er who has a problem with IL-2s should probably focus more on getting rid of the Lancs flinging 1,000lb bombs in steep jabo-dives.
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mild hijack, anyone else love the cyclical nature of spawns?
1 up a tank into nme field
2 il-2 kills tank
3 tanker comes back in osti/wirb and kills il2
4 il-2 comes back in m8/tank to kill osti/wirb
5 repeat
lol That irritates the crawlers to know end. :lol
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Sadly, some are calling for the 37mm Stuka to be perked before it even gets released.
I had a good laugh when I saw those posts, I really couldn't believe people would even think that.
ack-ack
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I had a good laugh when I saw those posts, I really couldn't believe people would even think that.
Pretty much the same here at the opposite side of the window. Why some people fail to understand "I can kill them easily" hardly means anything, is also a constant source of amazement.
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I had a good laugh when I saw those posts, I really couldn't believe people would even think that.
ack-ack
Given the specs on the thing's guns people were putting out it would kill a Tiger, through the front armor, easily. Nobody ever claimed it would be very survivable, simply that it would kill any and all GVs excessively easily.
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the Il has had a surprising addition to the game-it is forcing cooperation among the squad.I use to just attack a field or town but have had to change tactics-take squaddies-some aa and some hvy armour to provide mutaual support.Then when the horde of hvy ground attack fighters up the fighters sweep in to remove em.sure does make for a nasty surprize when they up ground attack and fast movers swoop in.
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the Il has had a surprising addition to the game-it is forcing cooperation among the squad.I use to just attack a field or town but have had to change tactics-take squaddies-some aa and some hvy armour to provide mutaual support.Then when the horde of hvy ground attack fighters up the fighters sweep in to remove em.sure does make for a nasty surprize when they up ground attack and fast movers swoop in.
Even that can't stop the Il-2. When I see tanks/wirbels trying to over-run our airfield, I up an Il-2, kill 1 or 2 and die. Up another, kill 1 or 2 and die, rinse, repeat, until they're all back at the spawn. Enemy fighters don't want to go low enough to shoot at Il-2s, and so the wirbels are the only (still inadequate) defense the gv's have.
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Hmm, disable F3 view and somehow attach the UBER gun package to the Ord. Also remove all enemy GV icons! Then all would be right with the world :aok
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Even that can't stop the Il-2. When I see tanks/wirbels trying to over-run our airfield, I up an Il-2, kill 1 or 2 and die. Up another, kill 1 or 2 and die, rinse, repeat, until they're all back at the spawn. Enemy fighters don't want to go low enough to shoot at Il-2s, and so the wirbels are the only (still inadequate) defense the gv's have.
You've hit the nail on the head there, with a very excellent example of how the Il-2 is flown.
That's specifically the reason behind why perks have nothing to with perceived performance of a aircraft/vehicle in regards to "how easy it is to kill or stop it." The only thing to consider is in terms of balance... and when the matter at hand is a case of an aircraft armed with a very powerful anti-tank gun versus a ground vehicle, the balance simply swings drastically in favor of the aircraft.
A capable pilot wielding the standard 23mm can single-handedly hold back a hefty column of armoured vehicles. Even an average guy like me can usually disable 2-3 vehicles and maybe kill one or two. The drive from the GV spawn point to the target base usually takes a long time, whilst the Il-2, as an aircraft, can fly at least 5~10 sorties against the GVs in the same amount of time. Being KIA during the ground attack means nothing, since one can simply respawn and up an Il-2 again and again and again. Add to that a much more powerful, capable 37mm AT gun and the prospect of ground warfare as many people have enjoyed upto date, is simply gone.
When HTC introduces a "perked ordnance" system into place, the 37mm guns are definately one of many prime candidates waiting to receive a listed price.
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Yeah, it's not the way I prefer to spend my time in this game, but 10 minutes of Sturmovik suiciding can stop a gv raid in its tracks (pun intended). ;) My hope is that the more people who use this tactic, the sooner they'll perk the 37mm Il-2. :D
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OK, make the IL2 a bomber only, that way if the killin is terribly ridiculous you could always take down the bomber hanger for some relief :aok still remove F3 view, as it is stupid and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay UNREALISTIC, this would make aquiring ground targets a little more tedious, and please remove enemy GV icons making them just a tad harder to spot by air! "pretty much how it probably was in RL" :aok
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I'd agree on removing icons for stationary GVs, but a moving vehicle WOULD be displaying a big neon sign saying "Here I am!" to overflying aircraft.
Instead, moving GVs show icons like they do now. When the vehicle stops after a set amount of time dependent on the surrounding cover the icon fades out. IE, a tank sitting in the middle of an open field would take longer to fade out than one sitting in the woods. This would simulate the tank crew putting up camo netting or taking other measures to disguise their vehicle. This could be based on the terrain tile (grass vs forest vs rock, etc.).
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C'mon guys. When you kill fighters you force them to respawn at a far away airbase so whats the difference?
Any vehicle or plane in the game can be flown suicidal. I have tons of Spits and Mustangs always suiciding HO into my IL-2s even when they hold great advantage, "which is always". Theres no valid reason a small nimble fighter should throw away all their advantage and HO an IL-2 yet it happens to me all the time.
I dont fly IL-2s like that, any other plane like that, or GV like that. My intent is always to kill and then land them, as is the other dedicated Rook IL-2 sticks that always show up with me at GV fights. You cant compare IL-2 with the nimrods who upp Lancs, fling 1,000lb bombs in Jabo dives, and then bail to rinse and repeat. I dont even carry bombs in my Storm birds. You just cant attribute dweebery to an airplane used in its historically correct manner. If you have a beef it should be with the Lanc-stuka crowd.
And I'm good in them yet there is no way, even with the 37mms, I can single handedly stop an entire column of GVs when they are supported with flak. The WWs and Osties chew up IL-2s like they are paper. Its hard enough dealing with a single tank when its got a well placed WW behind it. Kill an enemy fighter, or get killed, and how long does it take to get back, at Alt., into the fight? Whats the difference between that and a GV spawn? A fighter plane killed by its base can "up and fly 5 to 10 sorties" against an enemy too. Why should GVs be any different? Flying an airplane back to a fight, after being shot down, takes no less time then does re-upping a Tank and getting back to a fight. Again? Whats the difference? One thing I would like to see however is concrete pads to tower GVs out at near spawns. But thats a question that doesn't concern IL-2s.
The true answer is because prior to an effective tank killing air craft AH tank warfare was a joke, "tho I can understand why some miss it". Suicide the ords, take out the VH, and then motor into position for the baby seal clubbing. Nothing was left that could hurt you, "very few bothered with upping with ords from other bases", and the advantage was always with the guy sitting in ambush. Kill rates from spawn camps were in the dozens at a time. It wasn't "war", it wasn't even "cartoon war", in fact I never even really bothered with it.
Heres some stats on tour 103, last month before the IL-2 37mm update, and last months tour. The K/Ds anyway. Read them and then tell me how overwhelming this new "wonder plane" has been. At least for those who weren't the great campers towering out with 50 GV kills at a time.
Tour 103 K/D Aug. 2008 Tour 108 Jan. 2009
IL2- 1.12 1.09
Jeep-0.10 0.10
M-16-0.48 0.43
M-3-0.13 0.18
M-8-0.61 0.62
Ostie-1.27 1.16
Panzer-lV-0.82 0.80
SD-251-0.19 0.19
Sherman VC-2.25 2.48
T-34/75-0.66 0.60- T-34/85 = 1.49
Tiger-l-3.48 3.69
WW-1.80 1.71
So we are left with the question of exactly who is the IL-2 now overwhelming? Its not the Tigers or the Shermans, whom are both killing more even now in the age of the 37mm IL-2s. The Panzer-lVs are about the same. Osties and WWs have it a bit rougher "which is why we needed the 37mms anyhow". M3s and M8s are about the same, or, killing more. The addition of the 85mm T-34s is allowing them to kill more and the IL-2 is actually killing less per death. :huh
So where is the justification for the perk price? The airplane is slow, doesn't have much range, has a very unimpressive bomb load, has 4 rockets a notch above useless, poor climb rates and turn rates, and while fairly tough is no tougher then some Yank Jabos. Yes it is far more involved but its also paying a price and the thing is we needed an equalizer. Most of all one that actually existed and actually was a terror to GVs during the war.
The only "style" the IL-2 is "crimping" is the electronic pin ball crowd that would upp a single Tiger, motor safely to a spawn camp, and then club seals at least until the ords came up again. That is if they came up at all.
Now you might actually get killed when you motor in with your Tiger, pork ords from the safety of nearby woods, and then club the little seals coming out of the VH "that you have ranged". I'm sorry guys but life isn't fair, and as unfair as it is its far easier to take then was the eastern front when Panzer columns had to actually deal with IL-2s. AH Storm birds might crimp your style but that doesn't mean they should be perked.
You've hit the nail on the head there, with a very excellent example of how the Il-2 is flown.
That's specifically the reason behind why perks have nothing to with perceived performance of a aircraft/vehicle in regards to "how easy it is to kill or stop it." The only thing to consider is in terms of balance... and when the matter at hand is a case of an aircraft armed with a very powerful anti-tank gun versus a ground vehicle, the balance simply swings drastically in favor of the aircraft.
A capable pilot wielding the standard 23mm can single-handedly hold back a hefty column of armoured vehicles. Even an average guy like me can usually disable 2-3 vehicles and maybe kill one or two. The drive from the GV spawn point to the target base usually takes a long time, whilst the Il-2, as an aircraft, can fly at least 5~10 sorties against the GVs in the same amount of time. Being KIA during the ground attack means nothing, since one can simply respawn and up an Il-2 again and again and again. Add to that a much more powerful, capable 37mm AT gun and the prospect of ground warfare as many people have enjoyed upto date, is simply gone.
When HTC introduces a "perked ordnance" system into place, the 37mm guns are definately one of many prime candidates waiting to receive a listed price.
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You just cant attribute dweebery to an airplane used in its historically correct manner.
What is historically accurate about F3 view and icons ? :rofl :rofl
Heres some stats on tour 103, last month before the IL-2 37mm update, and last months tour. The K/Ds anyway. Read them and then tell me how overwhelming this new "wonder plane" has been. At least for those who weren't the great campers towering out with 50 GV kills at a time.
Tour 103 K/D Aug. 2008 Tour 108 Jan. 2009
IL2- 1.12 1.09
Jeep-0.10 0.10
M-16-0.48 0.43
M-3-0.13 0.18
M-8-0.61 0.62
Ostie-1.27 1.16
Panzer-lV-0.82 0.80
SD-251-0.19 0.19
Sherman VC-2.25 2.48
T-34/75-0.66 0.60- T-34/85 = 1.49
Tiger-l-3.48 3.69
WW-1.80 1.71
Could you possibly add exactly "how many sorties " each has flow ? I think this would shed some light on this for you ;)
So we are left with the question of exactly who is the IL-2 now overwhelming? Its not the Tigers or the Shermans, whom are both killing more even now in the age of the 37mm IL-2s. The Panzer-lVs are about the same.
A single IL2 pilot can up continuously, suiciding himself over and over again completely influencing the GV fight with little consiquence, Now add 2 or 3 more IL2s and the effect is overwhelming, " disproportionately " I would suspect.
[/quote
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C'mon guys. When you kill fighters you force them to respawn at a far away airbase so whats the difference?
Any vehicle or plane in the game can be flown suicidal. I have tons of Spits and Mustangs always suiciding HO into my IL-2s even when they hold great advantage, "which is always". Theres no valid reason a small nimble fighter should throw away all their advantage and HO an IL-2 yet it happens to me all the time.
I dont fly IL-2s like that, any other plane like that, or GV like that. My intent is always to kill and then land them, as is the other dedicated Rook IL-2 sticks that always show up with me at GV fights. You cant compare IL-2 with the nimrods who upp Lancs, fling 1,000lb bombs in Jabo dives, and then bail to rinse and repeat. I dont even carry bombs in my Storm birds. You just cant attribute dweebery to an airplane used in its historically correct manner. If you have a beef it should be with the Lanc-stuka crowd.
And I'm good in them yet there is no way, even with the 37mms, I can single handedly stop an entire column of GVs when they are supported with flak. The WWs and Osties chew up IL-2s like they are paper. Its hard enough dealing with a single tank when its got a well placed WW behind it. Kill an enemy fighter, or get killed, and how long does it take to get back, at Alt., into the fight? Whats the difference between that and a GV spawn? A fighter plane killed by its base can "up and fly 5 to 10 sorties" against an enemy too. Why should GVs be any different? Flying an airplane back to a fight, after being shot down, takes no less time then does re-upping a Tank and getting back to a fight. Again? Whats the difference? One thing I would like to see however is concrete pads to tower GVs out at near spawns. But thats a question that doesn't concern IL-2s.
The true answer is because prior to an effective tank killing air craft AH tank warfare was a joke, "tho I can understand why some miss it". Suicide the ords, take out the VH, and then motor into position for the baby seal clubbing. Nothing was left that could hurt you, "very few bothered with upping with ords from other bases", and the advantage was always with the guy sitting in ambush. Kill rates from spawn camps were in the dozens at a time. It wasn't "war", it wasn't even "cartoon war", in fact I never even really bothered with it.
The only "style" the IL-2 is "crimping" is the electronic pin ball crowd that would upp a single Tiger, motor safely to a spawn camp, and then club seals at least until the ords came up again. That is if they came up at all.
Now you might actually get killed when you motor in with your Tiger, pork ords from the safety of nearby woods, and then club the little seals coming out of the VH "that you have ranged". I'm sorry guys but life isn't fair, and as unfair as it is its far easier to take then was the eastern front when Panzer columns had to actually deal with IL-2s. AH Storm birds might crimp your style but that doesn't mean they should be perked.
Agree totally.
I'm seeing alot more instances of enemy gv's rolling onto a base lately. The IL-2's must need an upgrade.
:noid
wrongway
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What is historically accurate about F3 view and icons ?
About as accurate as it is in a tank. Get rid of F3 in IL-2s and you have to do it with every bomber and attack plane, not just one.
Besides you dont shoot or bomb in F3. While were at it lets accurize load times and traverse times for tanks too, or a million other inaccuracies in every other vehicle/airplane in Aces High? Yes? No?
Could you possibly add exactly "how many sorties " each has flow ? I think this would shed some light on this for you
No matter how many the sorties if the ratio is the same, or even more deaths then kills is occurring, then what would overall sorties have to do with it? Its true there has been a shift, and air power is having a bigger impact on the ground war. Nobody is questioning that. Point being it "didn't" before and "before" didn't reflect what actually happened in the war where air power had a huge impact in ground operations. WW-ll was when the term "combined arms" began to have meaning.
Almost every ground offensive/armor offensive had large air components. Allied air power caused the Germans to move armored columns almost entirely by night.
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While were at it lets accurize load times and traverse times for tanks too, or a million other inaccuracies in every other vehicle/airplane in Aces High? Yes? No?
Yes.
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About as accurate as it is in a tank. Get rid of F3 in IL-2s and you have to do it with every bomber and attack plane, not just one.
Besides you dont shoot or bomb in F3. While were at it lets accurize load times and traverse times for tanks too, or a million other inaccuracies in every other vehicle/airplane in Aces High? Yes? No?
No matter how many the sorties if the ratio is the same, or even more deaths then kills is occurring, then what would overall sorties have to do with it? Its true there has been a shift, and air power is having a bigger impact on the ground war. Nobody is questioning that. Point being it "didn't" before and "before" didn't reflect what actually happened in the war where air power had a huge impact in ground operations. WW-ll was when the term "combined arms" began to have meaning.
Almost every ground offensive/armor offensive had large air components. Allied air power caused the Germans to move armored columns almost entirely by night.
I agree with F3 view for NONE except maybe 4 engine bombers, Yes shooting and bombing in F3 mode is regular and easy!!
You can not hardly compare kill to death for "whatever " vehicles without knowing the quantity of sorties each has flown. It just isn't a good measure. Vehicles that are routinely used very liberaly and with no concern for loss ( IL2 )cannot be accurately compared against vehicles that are used very conservatively ( TIGER ).
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Tour 108
Il-2 has 189 Kills of Tiger I
Tiger I has 477 Kills of Il-2
Il-2 has 4463 Kills of Panzer IV H
Panzer IV H has 1295 Kills of Il-2
Il-2 has 769 Kills of Sherman VC
Sherman VC has 692 Kills of Il-2
Il-2 has 508 Kills of T-34/76
T-34/76 has 627 Kills of Il-2
Il-2 has 559 Kills of T-34/85
T-34/85 has 694 Kills of Il-2
Il-2 has 765 Kills of Ostwind
Ostwind has 1006 Kills of Il-2
Il-2 has 3053 Kills of Wirbelwind
Wirbelwind has 5453 Kills of Il-2
Ignoring the light vehicles, the UberTankKiller had 10,306 kills to 10,244 deaths against actual armored opponents, microscopically above 1 to 1.
It's K/D ratio is over 1 to 1 only against Panzers and Shermans. In fact, remove the fragile Panzer from the mix, the K/D ratio is only .65.
It is a PATHETIC .396 against the Tiger. It would seem the IL-2 is more a danger to itself than to a Tiger.
Exactly what is the complaint again?
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The Il-2 player can get 5-10 sorties in the time it takes a tank to drive from the spawn point to the base it is attacking, giving the Il-2 a much better return for time invested as well as allowing a single player to effectively swamp a small number of GV players as though they are being hit by a full squadron.
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Ignoring the light vehicles, the UberTankKiller had 10,306 kills to 10,244 deaths against actual armored opponents, microscopically above 1 to 1.
It's K/D ratio is over 1 to 1 only against Panzers and Shermans. In fact, remove the fragile Panzer from the mix, the K/D ratio is only .65.
It is a PATHETIC .396 against the Tiger. It would seem the IL-2 is more a danger to itself than to a Tiger.
A prime example of what I've mentioned earlier - total irrelevance.
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Respectfully this is a vast exaggeration. A "sortie" includes taking off, flying to the action, killing or getting killed, and then flying back.
And you cant get any "more" in an IL-2 then you can a fighter, even a fighter on defense. And probably less given the fact of its awful speed and climb rates. And then you have the fact that people are shooting back at you. If they aren't dancing around you slaughtering you in fighters then they are killing you from 2 k out in monster Osties and WWs. Sitting in a WW an IL-2 looks like a pregnant turkey coming in at you. You guys seem to think IL-2s upp, kill GVs uncontested to thunderous applause, then land and re-rinse uncontested. Most of the time I'm landing IL-2s with a lot of holes in them, "The Nits and Bish can be downright nasty at times and take shooting at their tanks personal".
It is a PATHETIC .396 against the Tiger. It would seem the IL-2 is more a danger to itself than to a Tiger.
Exactly what is the complaint again?
The "complaint" E252 is that GVs and/or planes and/or gun packages are sometimes introduced that crimp the style of a few players in the game. One thing the IL-2 has crimped a bit is the GV equivalent of those extended, sad, pathetic, silly, little vulch sessions we still sometimes see on air fields. You Know? The kind where you see 40 green dots around the air strip for 30 mins and when you finally fly over there 30 mins after that you still see the 30 guys vulching and the nearby town untouched. We used to have the same thing with GVs and you might have noticed you dont see as many "KingTiger had landed 97 kills in his Tiger-l" messages.
The reason you dont see it as much is because there is now an effective attack plane/gun package that has leveled the playing field and actually made "combined arms" a term that now has a little meaning in the game. No disrespect Karnak but for to long to many of these Tank Kings have had their own way and figured they had a right to motor anywheres they wanted alone, as long as ords were down, and sit on a camp unchallenged running up these silly kill counts as if they meant something. Now they might actually have to fight. Now they might actually die.
F3 ? The reason, of course, for the F3 view is because bombers and many attack planes had "no views" to the rear. Not "bad views" but "no views". They did however have gunners who kept in contact with comms, which is I guess the justification for F3 in the first place.
Besides these voices that all of a sudden want the IL-2 to be historically accurate, to the N'th degree, are strangely silent when the talk turns to the unending cheesy gaminess of AH GVs. Load times, views, zoom views, traverse times/angles,shooting aircraft with mains, 100 mph runs down hillsides, instant repairs. If you want everything 100% accurate then it all has to be. That or none of it. Demanding historically perfection only with the vehicle currently shooting you down is dweebish in the extreme.
The Il-2 player can get 5-10 sorties in the time it takes a tank to drive from the spawn point to the base it is attacking, giving the Il-2 a much better return for time invested as well as allowing a single player to effectively swamp a small number of GV players as though they are being hit by a full squadron.
Lastly my friend we have the above statement, which leaves me speechless. How can a single IL-2 stick "swamp a small number of GV players" as if "hit by a full squadron". I "bombrich" am a pretty good IL-2 stick but you must be far better then I if you can consistently "swamp" GV columns when they have any flak with them. Even when they dont tank main guns are pretty effective, "unlike they were in real life", and MGs too. I think you are vastly inflating all this and cant for the life of me get where you keep going with this "sortie" thing. The IL-2 cant sortie any faster then any other aircraft in the game, "probably far slower then most". Many times Ive landed and re-upped in fighter planes when on the defense 5 to 10 times as well. Whats the difference? And whats the relevance?
I guess you cant remember the first 103 tours when, on a base where ords were porked, a "single Tank"/"single player" would park his Tiger where he could shoot everything launching, landing, or coming out of the VH, with no worries whatsoever. And no way for the defenders to take him out, "KingTiger landed 86 kills in his Tiger-l", and then when supplies were dropped for him he'd land another 86. Are you sure that isn't the "single player" you are referring to?
Well starting with tour 104 KingTiger has a little something to worry about. The 100 cannon rounds may not kill him but it will put a hurt in him, and now its actually a fight. A multi-dimensional "fight" of combined arms and not an electronic pin ball game dominated by a very few "score guys" racking up silly kill counts with their gamey tactics. I would think the land war/armored "purists" would be thrilled with the changes both made and to come. And while The fight may not be as "easy" as it was I'd say its a lot more challenging and a lot more skill/teamwork/sound tactics are needed to be successful at it.
I actually have enthusiasm for the ground war now that I never had before. I think great things are to come and the ground war is going to heat up.
And nobody should "fear" the 37mm IL-2. You might have to change your tactics but they are not some overwhelming airplane your at the mercy of. :salute
The Il-2 player can get 5-10 sorties in the time it takes a tank to drive from the spawn point to the base it is attacking, giving the Il-2 a much better return for time invested as well as allowing a single player to effectively swamp a small number of GV players as though they are being hit by a full squadron.
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The Il-2 player can get 5-10 sorties in the time it takes a tank to drive from the spawn point to the base it is attacking, giving the Il-2 a much better return for time invested as well as allowing a single player to effectively swamp a small number of GV players as though they are being hit by a full squadron.
you can do the same in a B-25H and A-20, both are just as effective killing GVs as the IL2. So by your logic, those should be perked as well since they can easily swamp a small attacking GV force as though they were being hit by a full squadron.
Despite all the rhetoric, no one has yet to show any facts as to why the IL2 should be perked. Yes, it can kill GVs but then so can other planes and just as well.
ack-ack
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A prime example of what I've mentioned earlier - total irrelevance.
It is actually absolutely relevant. It puts the lie to your claim a single IL can easily hold up an entire column of tanks by itself and is therefore unbalancing.
Unless the tanks are heading to the field rather than the town, an IL-2 pilot will take a good 2-3 minutes from upping just to get into position for his first run. According to the statistics, he will take out one tank, and then die. If the enemy tank column is Wirby/Osti heavy, he may not even do that. Then it is another 2-3 minutes to take off, climb, and set up his next run.
If that kind of a pattern can stop a "hefty" column of tanks, then the tankers have no clue what they are doing, which is no fault of the IL-2.
Now, can he keep popping the M-3 before getting slaughtered, thereby preventing a base capture? Sure! But then, so can any number of cannon armed aircraft, so the IL-2 is nothing special in this regard.
I still do not see any imbalance that the IL-2 brings that does not have a counter-balance.
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We did it again today! :D Our base was being over-run with tanks and flaks, the vh was down, and even the fh's were down for a while, but a few of us kept upping Il-2s and fought them off. At one point I was rolling down the runway firing the 37mm at an M4 who was sitting in my path. I probably died as many times as I scored a kill, and even after we cleared the initial attack more were rolling onto the base and into the town, but they couldn't arrive as quickly as we could re-up. There's no way we could have kept that base if not for the new Il-2. :aok :devil
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We did it again today! :D Our base was being over-run with tanks and flaks, the vh was down, and even the fh's were down for a while, but a few of us kept upping Il-2s and fought them off. At one point I was rolling down the runway firing the 37mm at an M4 who was sitting in my path. I probably died as many times as I scored a kill, and even after we cleared the initial attack more were rolling onto the base and into the town, but they couldn't arrive as quickly as we could re-up. There's no way we could have kept that base if not for the new Il-2. :aok :devil
Sounds like the only reason you kept the base is that the attacking force didn't have any air cover to keep the IL2s down. I seriously doubt you would have kept the base if the opposition had a CAP in place.
ack-ack
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Yeah, they only had one or two guys vulching, when they needed 3-4 at least. :lol
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Just came from a big fight in LWB where the Nits rolled tanks and really had their act together. They rolled about 6 to 10 tanks right to the field and shut it down, I was able to get a few IL-2s up but only by the skin of my nose, and only then by coming out of hangars. Had we "rooks" responded faster we may have won but we didnt and we "didnt". The IL-2s took a beating and were themselves beat.
Were talking sound tactics here but the Nits really showed them in LWB tonight :salute to them. It was a great fight and we seem to be getting numerous ones like it in LWB lately. If your not fighting in blue lately then you are missing some terrific combined arms armor fights. Congrats to the Nits tonight at, I think it was A198. That was a great battle.
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It is actually absolutely relevant. It puts the lie to your claim a single IL can easily hold up an entire column of tanks by itself and is therefore unbalancing.
And you assume K/D is an adequate indicator as to how Il-2s are not very impressive against GVs, which shows your total lack of comprehension in this matter. I could go kamikaze one GV at a time for 5~6 times straight and I'll be able to hold off as 5~6 GVs approaching the base alone. Woop-dee-too, the K/D's probably abysmal, but who the fek cares. The job's done.
Unless the tanks are heading to the field rather than the town, an IL-2 pilot will take a good 2-3 minutes from upping just to get into position for his first run. According to the statistics, he will take out one tank, and then die. If the enemy tank column is Wirby/Osti heavy, he may not even do that. Then it is another 2-3 minutes to take off, climb, and set up his next run.
So?
With the possible exception of a very well coordinated GV mission led by dedicated GV squadrons, the gross majority of GV assaults to a base is participated by around 5~10 average people with mixed GV compositions with variances in priorities, GV positioning, and skill level. Leave the Wirbs/Osts alone, target the most unprotected tanks one by one, and every GV destroyed in that manner is another person set back to the spawn. The initial grouping of GVs are scattered every 2-3 minutes a single IL-2 makes flight, and after that it just gets easier and easier.
From spawn to the town takes on average 12~15 minutes drive. Repeat the 2-3 minute process for five times and effectively, enemy tanks are decimated and sent back to the spawn, which leaves only the AA GVs around the town, at which point another player can simply up a single tank and stop all of them. Or, if enemy GV players are frustrated by the repeated assault and simply quit upping tanks, you can land the IL-2 and do it on your own.
If that kind of a pattern can stop a "hefty" column of tanks, then the tankers have no clue what they are doing, which is no fault of the IL-2.
Right. Pit up the mediocre IL-2 pilots against the best case GV drivers "who have a clue". Why not the opposite? What happens if you pit some IL-2 pilots who have a clue? You still think the K/D means anything?
Now, can he keep popping the M-3 before getting slaughtered, thereby preventing a base capture? Sure! But then, so can any number of cannon armed aircraft, so the IL-2 is nothing special in this regard.
Hence, another stupid remark.
You up IL-2 to stop tanks from reaching the town and destroying it, so you don't have to worry about scurrying M-3s in the first place... and also, to protect the VH and the field from getting overrun, at which point there would be "no number of cannon armed aircraft" since they can't get up.
I still do not see any imbalance that the IL-2 brings that does not have a counter-balance.
That's because you view balance as a "skill" or "performance" issue, when in fact it has nothing to do with how "skillful" a pilot is, nor how well a certain plane "performs" in the K/D sense.
It's only about how the game is played, and how certain ordnance type breaks it.
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Sounds like the only reason you kept the base is that the attacking force didn't have any air cover to keep the IL2s down. I seriously doubt you would have kept the base if the opposition had a CAP in place.
ack-ack
VHs down, field overrun, and even CAP over the field.
A total vulch session in place... and only when that happens, the IL-2 can be stopped.
Good argument.
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And you assume K/D is an adequate indicator as to how Il-2s are not very impressive against GVs, which shows your total lack of comprehension in this matter. I could go kamikaze one GV at a time for 5~6 times straight and I'll be able to hold off as 5~6 GVs approaching the base alone. Woop-dee-too, the K/D's probably abysmal, but who the fek cares. The job's done.
<Snip>
It's only about how the game is played, and how certain ordnance type breaks it.
I comprehend just fine. You have misplaced your disdain for suicidal tactics by the players to the airframe itself.
With the possible exception of a very well coordinated GV mission led by dedicated GV squadrons, the gross majority of GV assaults to a base is participated by around 5~10 average people with mixed GV compositions with variances in priorities, GV positioning, and skill level.
Oh, no! The attack must be coordinated for it to succeed! The HORROR! :O Please, you really think it is a better situation to have 2-3 tankers camping airfields with impunity when the ords are down?
This is no different than a single player upping (plane of choice) against 5-10 average flyers, kamakaze HOing them one by one, forcing them to re-up at their far away base for the long flight back to the fight. That you can attrit an opposing force and string them out is not confined to GVs.
You seem to have a complaint against a certain type of game play, in which the player is allowed to up ad nauseum against an attack, using suicide tactics to break it up. That happens irrespective of plane type. So, I will repeat: I do not see any advantage to the IL-2 that does not have an easy counter-balance, ergo, I see no reason for a perk. All your blather aside, you have not refuted this point. Take another try.
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I think the real difference with the new Il-2 is that it completely blunts the weapon of taking out vh+ords.
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I think the real difference with the new Il-2 is that it completely blunts the weapon of taking out vh+ords.
And that is precisely why it was "upgraded". Way to many pork and auger then roll gv with impunity pre 1337 IL-2.
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Right now the AH staff/planners have to build on this momentum and further enhance the land war, which would further enhance the over-all air war.
Yesterday I was flying around in M-8 Greyhounds taking out M-3s, M-16s, and WWs. I found myself yearning for M-8 speeds attached to a large High Vel tank killing gun, we need a Tank Destroyer in the game. TDs would further balance armored actions by allowing armor guys to get back into the fight quickly, and, allowing them to use the high speeds of the M-18, or M-36s, for fire and maneuver on an even more fast and lethal manner.
I'm seeing visions of missions consisting of M-18 Hellcats, M-16 quad 0.50 AA, M-8 Greyhounds, M-3 halftracks carrying troops/supplies, along with Jeeps, and the entire shebang rolling along at 45 mph to 50 mph. Simply to fast for the enemy to react quickly enough, IL-2s or not. With such a combination of speed and firepower you can not only hit an enemy fast and hard but you can also sustain it.
I use to run British set missions made up of Mossies, Typhies/Temps, Spit-16s, and with goons in Brit skin for troops. I loved this mission profile because the Mossie has a top speed at tree top of about 340 mph with wep, compared to about 317 mph for the 110s. Believe it or not but the extra few minutes a faster attack package gives you means an awful lot towards any chances for mission success. The same holds true for GVs, actually it would hold true even more so then with aircraft. Fact is when you can deliver speed, along with overwhelming firepower, you hold the cards and control the battle. "Shock and Awe" was as sound a concept in 1944 as it was in 2004.
The 37mm IL-2 has enhanced the game. It added a new dimension and created a corp of dedicated tank killers. :salute
Want to balance things out even more? Then give us the M-18.