Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: hazed- on January 14, 2001, 11:29:00 AM
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I know its been toned down but jesus christ!
today whilst climbing away from a base over the sea i sort of stumbled on the fleet ..i was about 13k climbing at 200. Flak bursts all around me made me jump (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) so i quicky dived away turning 90 degrees and 70 degrees inverted with wep.then began a hard weave in a general direction away from the fleet!!!
the damn flak chased me for what seemed like miles almost on me the entire time.weaving changing alt NEVER slowing i just wanted to get out the way but the damn flak killed me after several near misses with shrapnel hits!
I dont mind flak dont get me wrong but whoopee it HTC if i want to get shot by a computer ill buy a 1 player game!
When i was hit i could only just see the cruiser and flattop for gods sake! any gunner in real life would have no way of reading my direction whilst weaving diving climbing and running at over 300 mph! not unless he was blessed with eagle eyes!
Im getting sick of it! its happening far too much still.Ive had great missions ruined by wandering within fleet range(what is it 50 bloody mile or what?)
ok ok im ranting and im sorry for it but im sorry i just dont fly near the fleets anymore
because of the flak and the only time its safe'ISH' is when some poor other pilot is getting shot at while we slip past but you can garentee when hes dead it will switch back to you and within a few shots you'll be dead.
I liked it how it was at the biggining of 1.05.I actually saw and attacked fleets,now i dont want to and its spoiling it for me.
anyone who disagrees remeber to test the flak alone not with others around, you get a false impression of their accuracy when others are around.
hazed begging tone it down just a little more HT .
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Agreed. Flak may not hit you on the FIRST shot, but it is still ridicously accurate.
Just now I was helping A40 which was under attack from Bish CV to its SE. Upped from 39, flew to 40, ack started exploding around me, dove at 500mph in my YAK and died DURING the dive. This is simply IMPOSSIBLE for WW2 Flak.
Took off again in P-38. same crap. At a 450 mph dive (compressed) diving after a con, flak pings me and BEWM.
Went to 40's tower inmediately and looked up to where I had died. the flak trails followed my dive in a STRAIGHT LINE.
Please HT, fix the flak or remove it altogether until it IS fixed, this is absolutely intolerable. All a fleet has to do is park itself off a field and make any air defense coming from a friendly field be not only confronted by the hordes of Cv-borne fighters, but also by FOO FIGHTERS FIRING FLAK.
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just a footnote:
anyone noticed how now we charge the fleet into the enemy base area and just stay there?
why? because the fleet has become the ostie runway shooter from beta maps!remeber them? sitting just outside ack range shooting people taking off?
well now it requires no skill even to shoot.
If we want this base taking to degenerate into furballs in front of fleets with flak killing wave after wave of hapless defenders until the fleets flak range covers a base and kills everything lifting off them or the fleet is sunk after 20 repetative sorties trying to attack it, then just sit back and watch.
I no longer fly tbm which i loved for torpedo runs,I dont dive bomb them and its because of radar perfect flak.
hazed
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Stumbled on a nme fleet today, at 22k in a B-17. Flak opened up on me while I was on my bomb run over A53. Even though I was straight and level at 150 IAS, I took no hits from the flak, though it fire at me for at least a minute.
Maybe the key is to not show it any fear. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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popeye maybe at 22k i would have been ok but i think average height of fights are much lower.Im going to do some tests i think.
hazed
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Been making divebomb runs from 10-12k, the flak shoots a lot at me, but is rare to hit me, even rarer to do significant damage.
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Fatty i dont know why this would be the case.
Im no newbie to avoiding flak and ack i assure you.maybe its a net lag thing where im appearing slightly behind my position but the flak instead of exploding behind hits bang on?
If i fly through fleet flack it always bursts around me not behind.As for the flak hitting you and rarely damaging you htc said the lethality has remained unchanged.You must be lucky (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
hazed
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Do away with the flack you might as well just drop fleets from the game. Any jabo fighter will be able to remove the fleet simply by sinking one ship, the CV.
Parking the fleet is the result of mandating that high ranking players can control them and everyone else is out of the loop. Unless you are one of the top players forget it, you are not going to be able to make changes and salvage a fleet. Too many top scorers like to park the fleet and then use it for quick turnarounds right next to a base. This leaves the fleet vulnerable to a multi prong attack. Since PT boats now spawn from some bases, a combination plane and pt attack are surprisingly effective unless there are players manning the ack guns.
Fighters at high speed cruising near a fleet will draw the AI gunners and the buff can lay eggs on the one ship needed to remove the entire fleet.
We need separate fleet options here. Those that want to shell a base at close range need a cruiser and a couple DD's. The cv needs to be kept away from the shore and launch planes, not try to shell a base with lousy gunnery accuracy and an almost total lack of ground hit sprites. A range finder needs to be implemented for ship to ship and ship to shore engagements.
Mav
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Hazed:
Flying straight while ack fires will hit you after a good while of being fired on.
However, when you MOVE (aka, dive, climb, barrel roll) you fly into one of the ack puffs and BEWM.
What REALLY pisses me off is when you change alts, from 15k to 12k then back to 15k and the ack follows you perfectly. It makes a tunnel of black puff through which you fly with. The day a flak battery, consisting of 5 or more individually manned flak guns can all set the shell bursting altitude, load and fire the guns at inside 200 ft of each other AT THE SAME TIME and each one of those guns adjusting their fire to follow me during a 500mph powerdive or a barreling climb will be the day computers will become obsolete.
And that definetely did not happen in WW2.
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On the bright side, kill shooter is not on for ack...or at least it doesn't seem that way. I've been killed several times trailing people through the fleet ack, which puts you directly in the ack puffs (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/redface.gif)
Whether it's on or off though, the historical situation might be a solution. i.e. if there is a friendly near the enemy plane, the ack doesn't fire. Course it's alot more complex then that, but so is target aquiring with a large AAA gun.
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(http://bigdweeb.homestead.com/files/sig.jpg)
33rd FW www.33rd.org (http://www.33rd.org)
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My squad has usually orders to stay away from enemy CV groups, even if flak is less Patriot-ish than before.
Great way to enjoy 1.05 eh? We want to find good dogfights not to avoid Patriots, Stingers and laser guided ack-ack.
You have to search carefully for a zone in the map far from those evil CV enemy groups and the fun is back (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Tac, how do you think the 5" guns on ship were controlled?
How do you think they were aimed?
How do you think the optimum shell burst hieght was a) determined and b) set?
I think you might want to do some research into these area before you say things like "The day a flak battery, consisting of 5 or more individually manned flak guns can all set the shell bursting altitude, load and fire the guns at inside 200 ft of each other AT THE SAME TIME and each one of those guns adjusting their fire to follow me during a 500mph powerdive or a barreling climb will be the day computers will become obsolete."
Real AAA guns, under battery control, manned by well trained crews and with a decent (not even state of the art) radar *can* do that.
It's not new technology.
It's not magic.
The USN got very, very good at this during WW2.
For the record, I have no real issues with the fleet ack. I've flown though it and lived, and I've flown through it and died. I live move than I die.
Originally posted by Tac:
And that definetely did not happen in WW2.
Wrong. Try telling the Japanese pilots that went up against the late war carrier groups that...
-Smut
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The guns are radar guided, and are firing proximity rounds.
Also, when players man them they get none of this, and are aiming them manually thru sights, which is wrong. You have mechanical computer aiming the guns, not a gunsight.
If anything, the AI is right, the player manned guns are hamstrung.
Hans.
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Originally posted by gatt:
My squad has usually orders to stay away from enemy CV groups, even if flak is less Patriot-ish than before.
Great way to enjoy 1.05 eh? We want to find good dogfights not to avoid Patriots, Stingers and laser guided ack-ack.
You have to search carefully for a zone in the map far from those evil CV enemy groups and the fun is back (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I know exactly what you mean. I was diving on an F6F yesterday in a 109 G2. Medium angle dive. I was closing on the F6F at approx. 450mph. I here the tell tail flack burst. I think WTF. I don't see the feet any place. The F6 still hasn't seen me and I hate to pass up a sleeper. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) So I jink a little for the ack (now I'm flat moving BTW so no super maneuvers are passable) and more flack bursts. I broke and happened to see the fleet out of the corner of my eye about 15k away. Then BANG! Engine dead. And the dang F6F STILL hasn't seen me! Now my gravy kill is a total loss. My previous kill will be reduced and I have to bail. This took a total of 6-8 flak bursts. I'm not real happy with the ack. I'm not happy at all having to constantly worry that I might accidently fly "over" a CV. If you can call over 15k away doing 450mph+, losing alt fast, and jinking "over" the CV. Large bore ack is for barrage fire not sharp shooting diving fighters doing 450mph+. If it had been the "machine gun" type and I was a 1000yrds or less away I would say that was the risk of flying thru that. Big ack is for big, slow, level, bombers on approach to target. Ships have always been vulnerable to planes. That's why they would cap there CV's with fighters. Here is an example (It may also show that the B17 might not have been accurate enough to hit a moving CV):
The fate of the Shoho at the Battle of Coral Sea. This is from a referance book of mine.
"The Japanese carrier Shoho was heading for Port Moresby on the 6th of May 1942 when at 10:30 she was sighted 60 miles south of Bouganvill by four B-17's. All four B-17's attempted a high-level bombing attack on the Shoho, but caused light damage. In a desperate attempt to find the US carriers, the Shoho launched reconnaissance planes for a dawn sweep on the next day. At 7:30 they reported a carrier and a cruiser and the two accompanying carriers Shokaku and Zuikaku lunched a large strike. The "task force" turned out to be a US navy oiler and destroyer escort. This was a fatal error. The US task force was able to discover the Shoho's carrier group. The Shoho had been ordered to launch all available aircraft for attack on the "task force." At 9:50 the Lexington's strike spotted the Shoho turning into the wind. All the planes of the Japanese carrier group were away or on the deck of the Shoho. No resistance was encountered. The first strike scored no hits on the Shoho, but a near miss blew five of her aircraft off her deck. At 10:25 a second strike arrived, from the Yorktown. This strike scored two 1,000lb bomb hits on the flight deck, in spite of a curtain of anti-aircraft fire from the Shoho's escorts. The carrier reeled under the blows, and as she began to lose speed more bombs and torpedos hit her. According to Japanese records as many as 11 more bombs and seven torpedos hit, and the shoho burst into flames. Only six minutes after the last American plane had departed the order was given to abandon ship, and 10:35 the burning carrier rolled over and sank. Only 255 men out of and estimated 800 onboard were saved. It was the first Japanese carrier loss of the war."
A carrier is defended by it's planes and not it's ack. The unfortunate Shoho was caught with no air cover and all her planes on deck. The flack batteries didn't stop all of those bombs and torpedos form hitting her. Four B-17's dropped at her and scratched the paint.
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Just kill the CV. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Take a B-26 with 4 1000 lb bombs, attack bow to stern at 12,000 ft, reduce rpms and salvo all 4 at approx 1/3rd the CVs length in front of it.
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Smut:
You telling me that flak in ww2 could follow a target in a 90 degree high speed dive PERFECTLY?
Gee, I really dont see how they couldve missed LARGE bomber FORMATIONS that flew straight. I mean, hey they fly relatively slow, in one vector and one altitude. Or maybe it was easier to hit a plane that was 1/3rd the size of a bomber, manouvering at high speeds?
Most kamikazes were either shot down by fighters or GUNFIRE (aka those XXmm guns and those pretty tracers that follow you when near fleet), a good number of them LIVED thru it and MISSED the target, and some did hit. FLAK did not smack down fighters by following them into the dive, they had preset barrage alts where the enemy planes would meet a "wall" of flak (if no friendly aircraft were around) and then the hail of lead from the fleet anti-aircraft guns. Watch some History Channel specials on the kamikazes.
"I've flown though it and lived, and I've flown through it and died. I live move than I die."
Same here.What we are trying to say here is that flak is waaay too accurate against a manouvering fighter. Look at the picture I posted in another thread on this. Then get airborne and watch the poor guy that is being flak'd as he dogfights at 15k over a fleet.Watch him for a while and you will see he WILL get killed in a minute or so. You will see the "perfect" tunnel of flak following the fighter's every move. THAT is the problem.
Oh, and also that flak picks on one person and ignores the others... kinda funny to see a fighter getting flakd while the torpedo bombers, lancasters and others that are attacking the fleet fly unmolested. Heehee.
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Originally posted by Tac:
Smut:
You telling me that flak in ww2 could follow a target in a 90 degree high speed dive PERFECTLY?
Gee, I really dont see how they couldve missed LARGE bomber FORMATIONS that flew straight. I mean, hey they fly relatively slow, in one vector and one altitude. Or maybe it was easier to hit a plane that was 1/3rd the size of a bomber, manouvering at high speeds?
Most kamikazes were either shot down by fighters or GUNFIRE (aka those XXmm guns and those pretty tracers that follow you when near fleet), a good number of them LIVED thru it and MISSED the target, and some did hit. FLAK did not smack down fighters by following them into the dive, they had preset barrage alts where the enemy planes would meet a "wall" of flak (if no friendly aircraft were around) and then the hail of lead from the fleet anti-aircraft guns. Watch some History Channel specials on the kamikazes.
"I've flown though it and lived, and I've flown through it and died. I live move than I die."
Same here.What we are trying to say here is that flak is waaay too accurate against a manouvering fighter. Look at the picture I posted in another thread on this. Then get airborne and watch the poor guy that is being flak'd as he dogfights at 15k over a fleet.Watch him for a while and you will see he WILL get killed in a minute or so. You will see the "perfect" tunnel of flak following the fighter's every move. THAT is the problem.
Oh, and also that flak picks on one person and ignores the others... kinda funny to see a fighter getting flakd while the torpedo bombers, lancasters and others that are attacking the fleet fly unmolested. Heehee.
You got it. Not only 1/3 the size of a bomber (or less) and maneuvering but at over 3/4 of the flack guns maximum range. The flack shot down fighters and bombers that were trying to fly directly over or at the carrier. Both of these attack positions make it much easier to hit the attacking plane. You people that say the ack is fine because it historically shot down enemy planes attacking the CV are forgetting this fact. And as Smut says the ack was not really a direct fire weapon. Especially the big bore stuff. Give me a plane flying on a direct course at the CV to fire at anytime. You can't be doing barrel rolls and high G maneuvers in your TBF right up to the point of dropping your torpedo. Or how about jerking that Lancaster all over the sky until just moments before you release your bombs. For the ack to be adding close fire support to the friendly fighter 15k away in a dog fight is just flat ludicrous!
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Make flaks also kill friendlies because this way its kinda rediculous to get killed by a 5 inch gun while in a tight turning fight with an enemy near his cv, while the bad guy has nothing to worry about.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Make flaks also kill friendlies because this way its kinda rediculous to get killed by a 5 inch gun while in a tight turning fight with an enemy near his cv, while the bad guy has nothing to worry about.
Yep a huge shrapnel hurling explosion is indiscriminate. As I and others said, those guns just weren't used to target an individual fighter and track it like a laser all over the sky. As I said above they fired at planes approaching the ship on a nice steady course. You can't be throwing your plane all over the sky right up to the second you release your bombs.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ:
Make flaks also kill friendlies because this way its kinda rediculous to get killed by a 5 inch gun while in a tight turning fight with an enemy near his cv, while the bad guy has nothing to worry about.
Yes with some type of killshooter so the gunner is also penalized for shooting down one of his own.
Eagler
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Originally posted by Tac:
Smut:
You telling me that flak in ww2 could follow a target in a 90 degree high speed dive PERFECTLY?
Wait a second...you are diving straight down on the carrier and getting blown up?
Well duh.
A zero deflection shot with prox fused shells...lol...how does it get easier I wonder?
Clearly, this is not what you meant to say.
What *I* am saying is that late war (late 44 and onward) USN ship based AAA was very deadly. Not perfect, but very deadly nonetheless.
-Smut
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Originally posted by Jimdandy:
The fate of the Shoho at the Battle of Coral Sea. This is from a referance book of mine.
"The Japanese carrier Shoho was heading for Port Moresby on the 6th of May 1942
*SNIP*
How is this relevent?
Are you really trying to compare early war Japanese ship based AAA with USN late war, radar guided AAA?
Talk about apples and oranges...
-Smut
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No smut, I wasnt over carrier. I was almost half a sector away from it.
AAA in late war US navy ships didnt get deadlier. It got more numerous. A hell of a lot more numerous.
See it for yourself Smut. Try dogfighting while you get flak firing at you. its UNREAL. It will follow your loops, dives, twists and any crazy manouver you can try or whatever the con you're tailing tries. Its PERFECT in its ranging and altitude. I tried filming it but flak puffs dont show on films.
Or better yet, have one of your wingmen fly into the ack and manouver. You stay above and watch him. You will see the magic.
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Smut.
Well if that's not a great example wow I'm so sorry. I'm upset as hell that didn't spin your crank. The fact is the ack wasn't as accurate at ANY time in the war as it is on here. Flush the example above. I and others have already made a case for the fact that the ack is far to accurate. If that example is your only line of defense your grasping.
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-15-2001).]
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I think Grunherz is right. IMHO, Flak is OK now. You can avoid it pretty well, if you are far enough. Very hard when you are close to the ships. But definitely friendly fire has to be implemented, both human controlled weapons and for AI when fused projetciles used.
How about killshooter off for field gunners, and substracting perk points when killing a friendly?
Cheers,
Pepe
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Originally posted by Tac:
AAA in late war US navy ships didnt get deadlier. It got more numerous. A hell of a lot more numerous.
Bzzzttt...Wrong, thanks for playing.
Ship based AAA got considerably more deadly as the war progressed. It got more accurate as radar technology improved (in 1941-42 few if any USN ship had radar guided AAA), as prox shells were perfected, and as weapons were improved. .50 MG's were replaced by 20mm mounts, and 40mm replaced the near worthless 1.1" quads. The 5" / 38 cal really came into it's own.
Did ships mount more guns? Sure...again, that also helped to make the AAA, on a whole, more deadly.
Why do you think they mounted all of those guns? Just to scare the hell out of the enemy?
I'm still not sure what you are squeaking about. Fleet AAA is not magic now. It may track you a bit too well, but it has been toned down so much that only a direct hit will kill you. I think the overall *effect* of the AAA is correct. Sometimes it will get you, and other times it won't. And our fleets probably only have 1/4 to 1/8 the number of AAA mounts they should have.
Are you squeaking about the effectiveness of the ack, or how it looks?
-Smut
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Originally posted by Jimdandy:
Smut.
Well if that's not a great example wow I'm so sorry. I'm upset as hell that didn't spin your crank. The fact is the ack wasn't as accurate at ANY time in the war as it is on here. Flush the example above. I and others have already made a case for the fact that the ack is far to accurate. If that example is your only line of defense your grasping.
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-15-2001).]
I'm sorry, I disagree with you. I do not think that currently the ack is too accurate.
You cited an example that did nothing to prove your point...sorry I burst your bubble.
-Smut
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Originally posted by Smut:
I'm sorry, I disagree with you. I do not think that currently the ack is too accurate.
You cited an example that did nothing to prove your point...sorry I burst your bubble.
-Smut
It has me all shaken up. I can see you think the ack is fine. I don't and so do some of the people above. Like I said I think you've latched onto my oh so inferior example because that's all you got to go on now. LOL Run with it. I'll be your scapegoat. I bear on my head the sins of the children of Israel! Forgive me Father for I have been a bad example! But I have given Smut refuge in his time of need Lord. Will that be any consolation for my sin? Please Lord let there only be one set of foot prints in the sand where I carry Smut thru his time of need. Is there anyway I can make up for destroying the examples that have come before me. I'm at your mercy Lord. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-16-2001).]
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I only really have two issues with the flak.
1. If it locks on to you, it stays locked on regardless. Even when I go below 3k feet, it won't switch targets... it's on me until I am out of it's very long range. I would think the flak gunners would switch to the closest targets, but maybe I'm wrong. I think this can be exploited to a degree. If I can get the flak locked on to me, I then just cruise around in range but at 2,800 feet. My buddies should be relatively un-molested by flak at this point.
2. I can fly perfectly straight and level and take no hits. If I maneuver I tend to get killed. Kinda strange. Not a big deal, but not what I expect. Am I wrong to expect it to work this way?
Now that said, I think there is an issue with how the flak works. I think HT has changed some things on the host to make it playable for now, but it doesn't seem to be a permanent solution. I'd bet that in a furuture patch or release, HT may be able to fix whatever is causing the functional issues. For now I think the balance is not bad, and I find I can play around CV's now without too much of a problem.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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Lephturn, I agree. It has been made more playable. I've observed the same things. I know that no matter what part of the war you want to talk about the aircraft of the CV are it's prime defense. The flack is a last ditch effort. I think when further changes come to the ack I would like it to reflect that.
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I myself am not real happen with the distance and range at which I'm being shot down by the flak, but most times I've found that it's the player manned guns that are killing me at those ranges. I think it's the usual super player gunner that's affecting this. The same as the buffs. Some are REAL good shots and others suck.
Bane
13th TAS
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Originally posted by BaneX:
I myself am not real happen with the distance and range at which I'm being shot down by the flak, but most times I've found that it's the player manned guns that are killing me at those ranges. I think it's the usual super player gunner that's affecting this. The same as the buffs. Some are REAL good shots and others suck.
Bane
13th TAS
I don't remember seeing any kill message for mine other than You've been killed at the long ranges. I'll have to look again when I get hit at 15k and see.
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I don't remember seeing any kill message for mine other than You've been killed at the long ranges. I'll have to look again when I get hit at 15k and see.
You might try that.. not necessarily what's happening but could be <shrug>. Just seems to be the case for me is all, but yes the ack in general is very lethal as it is and I usually avoid CV's if I can.
Bane
13th TAS
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Smut, no flak will EVER follow a fighter into ACM manouvers the way AH flak does.
Think about it: If the flak could NOT follow your fighter in that "tunnel of death" as it does in AH, what are the chances of it HITTING you?????? THAT is what pisses me off. If there was a wall flak at certain altitudes trying to hit me i'd accept it and try to constantly switch alts (which is what WW2 fighter pilots DID). Problem is, I cant do it because the flak is as attached to me like flies are attached a pile of dung.
Flak in AH should fire a huge wall of flak at an alt close to yours in an effort to whack you. This would be dangerous to bombers (but not more dangerous than the current flak) and to fighters... but fighters would have a far wider margin of safety from flak because they can climb or dive quickly to avoid it (plus being smaller targets)
In AH, fly straight and level and the flak will rarely hit you. Manouver and you WILL get hit. Ridiculous aint it? Thats because of the nature of the "flak tunnel", not because the flak is uber. Make the tunnel become a real flak barrage, covering a quarter of a mile or something and things would be a LOT different.
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Check the news section. Ack change(s) on way
-Westy
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cc Westy thx. I figured they were. I got on this forum (as far as Smut is concerned) to bear the weight of all the flack gripers around the world. Doing his best Elvis--> "This time Lord you gave me a mountain, a mountain that I may never climb..." How am I doing? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-16-2001).]
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<rolls eyes>
What exactly did I say to you to provoke this kind of reaction from you??? You need to get a grip dude, it's only a game.
-Smut
Originally posted by Jimdandy:
cc Westy thx. I figured they were. I got on this forum (as far as Smut is concerned) to bear the weight of all the flack gripers around the world. Doing his best Elvis--> "This time Lord you gave me a mountain, a mountain that I may never climb..." How am I doing? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-16-2001).]
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Originally posted by Smut:
<rolls eyes>
What exactly did I say to you to provoke this kind of reaction from you??? You need to get a grip dude, it's only a game.
-Smut
LOL! Don't worry Smut I'm just bored and trying to entertain myself. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) All in jest.
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-16-2001).]
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I've been killed by fleet flak a grand total of one time. I'm not finding any kind of "patriot" capability here, if anything the ack is too limited - for ships equipped with radar, it takes the AI AA awhile to lock on to and commence firing at a target. Enemy buffs can get one, maybe two passes in at medium altitude before they're even fired upon, and I've never seen fleet ack kill a level buff. Nor have I seen fleet ack kill anything that wasn't attacking the carrier.
Does anyone have any film evidence of these deaths by ack at "50 miles while manuvering", etc.? If not it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that you either:
1. misjudged the distance to the CV
2. were killed by flak from another source (e.g. an enemy land base)
3. were killed by an enemy aircraft
4. sustained fatal structural damage due to other factors, e.g. dive speed
5. had a minor (and lucky) flak hit added to previous damage from other sources, thus causing the actual destruction of your aircraft
6. lagged at the time of death, causing your plane to "drift" into the trailing flak fire
The deadliness of the AAA is apparently another point of contention - but it has to be the way it is. The difference between the flak effectiveness on WWII ships, like the Shoho, and AH ships is that attack forces in WWII consisted of multiple squadrons, potentially adding up to hundreds of aircraft. Flak fire isn't very effective when you have a small task force without radar firing at two hundred attacking planes, all aiming their bombs at a single ship. The AA in AH is, as it should be, designed to counter single attackers or small groups. If you haven't noticed, it's not very good at dealing with large attack forces - all the guns concentrate on one target at a time until it is destroyed, and then select a new target until that is destroyed, and so on. A force of probably ten bomb-equipped aircraft could sink the fleet, since the carrier seems to be made out of gasoline-soaked paper.
[This message has been edited by Specterx (edited 01-17-2001).]
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"Does anyone have any film evidence of these deaths by ack at "50 miles while manuvering"
Got pics, but unfortunately the film does not film FLAK PUFFS.
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Ditto to that,,,,,,i had the same experience
yesterday,,,,,radarguided cannons with very long range,,,,,,,
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When you make a bombrun,,,just shout BANZAI
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I think with the latest patch they the ack is better. You can actually maneuver and get away from it. It hasn't shot me down nearly as many times as before. I'll call it liveable.
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"I'll call it liveable."
Same. It's still hard to take out the planes (vulch) taking off at the fleet but unless I'm the sole enemy around and the sole focal point for all that fleet ack I can handle the it ok now.
-Westy