Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mechanic on February 14, 2009, 09:31:25 PM
-
See Rules #4, #8
-
Batty...
Funny how even though the instructions are clearly printed on the heel of the boot....they still can't empty the piss out of it. :devil
-
i will remember that phrase, thank you sir :lol
-
Don't sweat it! Base capture types have a quantifiable outcome to justify their exertions. They even get a fancy "in lights" recognition for each capture. So they feel like they are the rulers of the AH world.
See how far they get without the furballers on their side keeping the skies clear. There is no quantifiable data for "kill efficiency", but dedicated A2A types can knock bandits out of the sky exponentially faster than capture types. The kill that will take you two passes and 30 seconds might take a "capture type" two and a half minutes of dead six pursuit, and an entire clip of LA-7 20mm before that kill is made. Keeping the skies clear efficiently, or at the very least maintaining air combat balance, keeps IL-2's and A-20's from busting GV's. All sides play a part in winning the war, and whether furballers care or not, they play a very valuable role.
-
I'm really really trying hard to bite my tongue here...
-
true trotter. Another point that relates is that even the best pilot in the world can be defeated by a relative noob, due to the very fact you mention with the la7 20mm clip. I have often mused on the fact that after winning numerous encounters my sortie can easily be ended by an enemy who doesnt care how much ammo he uses as long as he gets one kill now.
*waves at lusche* hi :D
-
See Rule #4
-
I hope you feel good about yourself ruining the knights chances batty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltwxC19s5u8
"Of course, how selfish of me. Lets do all the things that YOU wanna do." :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
Yay I'm the star of the show!
batfink, I had a great time furballing with you guys this morning, happy you guys weren't trying to take the base sir, was too much fun.
<S>
-
I will say it again, just so all can understand:
Those who get accused of "furballing" to the exclusion of everything else and landing big kill numbers while bases get taken, THOSE SAME are the ones who typically do the most to "win the war" in Special Events, where the missions and objectives are actually realistic-hint, they AREN'T realistic in the MA. Read my lips: Running an NOE with a crowd of 110s and and one C-47 full of troops to an undefended base does *not* much resemble in any way how the "map was moved" in WWII. Suicide-porking a base, suicide buffing, or anything else with "suicide" in its name does not resemble "war", because in war (and Special Events) you get ONE life and attrition is a dominant factor. The squad you see flying high-cap and either killing or putting to flight everything that comes their way are the ones who are good at realistically simulated war. And you know the lone nutjob flying low into 20 or so bandits in an inferior ride who still pwns and kills 5 or 6? He's usually even BETTER than the mass-killers I just mentioned when he goes to the "Big Show". Any situation where he can engage semi-fairly or with the advantage will seem super-easy to him.
-
I will say it again, just so all can understand:
Those who get accused of "furballing" to the exclusion of everything else and landing big kill numbers while bases get taken, THOSE SAME are the ones who typically do the most to "win the war" in Special Events, where the missions and objectives are actually realistic-hint, they AREN'T realistic in the MA. Read my lips: Running an NOE with a crowd of 110s and and one C-47 full of troops to an undefended base does *not* much resemble in any way how the "map was moved" in WWII. Suicide-porking a base, suicide buffing, or anything else with "suicide" in its name does not resemble "war", because in war you get ONE life and attrition is a dominant factor. The squad you see flying high-cap and either killing or putting to flight everything that comes their way are the ones who are good at realistic simulated WWII combat. And you know the lone nutjob flying low into 20 or so bandits in an inferior ride who still pwns and kills 5 or 6? He's usually even BETTER than the mass-killers I just mentioned when he goes to the "Big Show" because situations where he's allowed to try to engage favorably will seem super-easy to him.
Good post. You did a good job taking into consideration two of the major view points in AH. The furballers who don't care if they die because it's just a game. and The guys who fly "like real life" Neither are wrong IMO. Some people just play yhe game different. The view point I don't like is the "win the war, let's vultch/horde/run an NOE mission type" Which is probably the view point our country channel hero has. 71 was just there to have fun. They did a good job in providing a good hour or so of it too :aok
-
I will say it again, just so all can understand:
Those who get accused of "furballing" to the exclusion of everything else and landing big kill numbers while bases get taken, THOSE SAME are the ones who typically do the most to "win the war" in Special Events, where the missions and objectives are actually realistic-hint, they AREN'T realistic in the MA. Read my lips: Running an NOE with a crowd of 110s and and one C-47 full of troops to an undefended base does *not* much resemble in any way how the "map was moved" in WWII. Suicide-porking a base, suicide buffing, or anything else with "suicide" in its name does not resemble "war", because in war (and Special Events) you get ONE life and attrition is a dominant factor. The squad you see flying high-cap and either killing or putting to flight everything that comes their way are the ones who are good at realistically simulated war. And you know the lone nutjob flying low into 20 or so bandits in an inferior ride who still pwns and kills 5 or 6? He's usually even BETTER than the mass-killers I just mentioned when he goes to the "Big Show". Any situation where he can engage semi-fairly or with the advantage will seem super-easy to him.
:aok
This game is FSO. Everything else is just practice.
Although, I have to say, that when I fly FSO I still really don't care about winning, just completing the mission and getting home safe, and helping my squadies do the same, while having a great time!
-
It's easy to be a war winner in the MA. There is no death penalty. You can die as many times as it takes and still be rewarded with a field capture. The same weiners most likely blow chunks when it comes to scenarios or FSO. Heros of AH.... :rolleyes:
-
ROX doesn't like Batfink either? Don't worry Batfink, I'd wear it as a badge of honor, the rest of us do. :salute
-
I'd wear it as a badge of honor, the rest of us do. :salute
Badges? Bfink don't need no steenkin' badges!!!
(sri..couldn't resist :D)
-
hehe funny replies. I hoped it might get a chuckle, and maybe highlight to the generals how they were barking up the wrong tree, we could have helped them. I thought MrJumper's last comment was quite funny when you see the 5 solid fighters i had as wingmen there, couple more out of shot.
Buster you did a fine job of deffending our BnZ sorties for that hour. At least once i remember having to throttle up and run as you sent 50cals flying past my ear. S!
-
Don't sweat it! Base capture types have a quantifiable outcome to justify their exertions. They even get a fancy "in lights" recognition for each capture. So they feel like they are the rulers of the AH world.
See how far they get without the furballers on their side keeping the skies clear. There is no quantifiable data for "kill efficiency", but dedicated A2A types can knock bandits out of the sky exponentially faster than capture types. The kill that will take you two passes and 30 seconds might take a "capture type" two and a half minutes of dead six pursuit, and an entire clip of LA-7 20mm before that kill is made. Keeping the skies clear efficiently, or at the very least maintaining air combat balance, keeps IL-2's and A-20's from busting GV's. All sides play a part in winning the war, and whether furballers care or not, they play a very valuable role.
Absolutely right!!! Ignore that drivel.. I for one, REALLY APPRECIATE
having some good fighter guys watching my back.. When the town is down,
our friendly GV's are rollin, but too far away, and me and my trusty A20 are
the only thing denying the capture.. I NEED the fighter guys, or I'm a ded man..
You guys keep them off my back, long enough for me to take care of BIZ!!!
:salute from a mud pilot!!!
RC
-
Here's a soothing gif to calm the nerves.
(http://FilthsHangar.homestead.com/redgreen.gif)
-
Here's a soothing gif to calm the nerves.
Strange...I merely got a hardon. Go figure. :rolleyes:
-
:rofl
:noid
-
Dont give a crap about the base taking guys whatever side they are on. As long as I have fun i dont care about the rest of you :)
-
In.
-
how can you dislike batfink when he isnt even shooting you down...
:salutebat
-
The question I have is why ROX and the other guy needed any help taking an undefended base? Not like either of them will readily attack a base under attack if they can help it.
Oh, and congratulations Bat, any time you can make ROX look like a fool in or out of the game is a treat to behold.
ack-ack
-
Strange...I merely got a hardon. Go figure. :rolleyes:
LOL
-
I was really glad when I saw it was ROX. I'd love to give my 2 cents about this self appointed general but I'd probably break like 3-4 rules and get a ban stick.
-
mr jumper needs a new tinfoil hat. :noid
-
It gets even better then this, I was in Blue after they logged from Orange. You should have heard them then.
Classic :cry :cry
Got my $14.95 worth this month :rofl :aok
Crims
-
If base-takers would attack deFENDED bases, furballers would then converge for THEIR reasons, giving all concerned something to do....to some extent, base-taking provides a context in which to HAVE furballs. Of course, 40 planes noe negates all of that :frown:
-
Hey Bat!
Our guys like to defend or cap bases also. If ya get lucky you can drag one from the Ack and get a one on one!
Hordes don't like that......they prefer the 20 on 2. Still....usually 10 of them get shot down fighting the 2.
Dontcha just love the hordes??? ;)
-
this is what the knights have turned into.
wonder why they always outnumbered :rolleyes:
-
One thing nits are good at is furballing. Useless wasters!
-
The problem is the HUGE maps. HUGE maps give the landgrabbers the false sense that they are an autonomous faction, somehow ordained by the God of AH to be his personal real estate agent. On HUGE maps, the landgrabbers can simply choose to not fight for fields. They can smash n' grab, NOE or GV sneak, ultra-high alt bomb to oblivion and if substantially resisted in time they have the oft exercised option of augering it in to simply evaporate at one field just to appear 3 minutes later at a vacant field 10 sectors away. Eventually, any would be defenders tire of chasing "ghosts" and find their pleasure by other means.
When we had a plethora of small maps the angst landgrabbers had for furballers was extremely curtailed almost to the point of nonexistence. The reason being, without furballers on a small map, the landgrabbers would be unceremoniously bare-bottom spanked long before getting into visual range of any field as all of a country's bases can be adequately and simultaneously defended against such a one dimensional attack .
-
I wonder Zazen, do you have any ideas on the pros and cons of a 'sector control' style of game play, rather than base taking. You control a sector and any fields in it by doing a set task for that sector. I have been wondering about it for a while.
-
I wonder Zazen, do you have any ideas on the pros and cons of a 'sector control' style of game play, rather than base taking. You control a sector and any fields in it by doing a set task for that sector. I have been wondering about it for a while.
Sounds similar to something Guppy/CorkyJr used to talk about from time to time. He was kicking around an idea that historically in many cases you didn't have a single airfield as a strategic target, even in the south pacific were airfields were often times the objectives a more accurate description would be a base complex comprised of several airfields in relative proximity to each other. Port Moresby I think had six different airfields if I remember right. The idea being that the field is near to but not the objective itself, would be harder to cap or shut down and would serve to funnel players into the same sector but still allow defenders to up and mount a defense.
BTW was great flying with you gents last night, tanks for letter me tag along. :)
-
was our pleasure Soul! I wonder, how easy a sector control gameplay would be to make?
-
Would this be like, having multiple airfields attached to a 'town' (probably closer to the size of a city, considering the increased value)?
Sounds interesting.
-
I wonder Zazen, do you have any ideas on the pros and cons of a 'sector control' style of game play, rather than base taking. You control a sector and any fields in it by doing a set task for that sector. I have been wondering about it for a while.
I like that idea in theory. But, I fear that level of abstraction may be a put off to those requiring more "concrete" empirical reinforcement of the relationship between their efforts and the resultant outcomes. But, indeed, in actual warfare the concept of sector control is actually how it works and is thought of in the overarching strategic planning phases of battle preparation and subsequent execution.
WWII taught the world's armed forces that if local air superiority was achieved the success of the land/sea based effort was all but a forgone conclusion, a mere consummation of that which had already essentially been obtained by virtue of unrelenting air dominance. Conversely, if local air superiority was not achieved, it wasn't even that the land/sea based effort was made more difficult, it actually made ultimate success by conventional means (IE: non-guerilla actions) virtually impossible.
Of course a lot would depend on how it was implimented. But, while the conept of sector control appeals from the stand-point of dogmatic strategic military thought, I think for the purpose of making AH easily relatable to and consistant with the visceral gaming experience to which players have become accustomed, it would be too obtuse and abstract.
-
Understood Zaz. For me I see something like motherland says as being a great way to play. Bigger cities and factories as the focus of capture, with airfields as property connected to the capture point. I think This would make one very significant change to the current game play. It would mean that people flying over enemy airfields are there for one reason only, to vulch. The current setup allows constant vulching with the mislead belief that it is in aid of a capture, for the most part. Without airfields to capture, rather 'zone cities', there would be no logical reason to engage the enemy deep in his machine gun nests and flak wagons. Ergo more combat in the air, of course in theory this should work. Doubtfull in reality. Worth a shot though, imo.
-
ROX doesn't like Batfink either? Don't worry Batfink, I'd wear it as a badge of honor, the rest of us do. :salute
lol That is true.
-
this is what the knights have turned into.
wonder why they always outnumbered :rolleyes:
Of course my opinion is biased and utterly subjective... but last month, I was finally flying knights again for a whole tour after a long time.
But I discovered all the reasons for leaving them long ago were still there:
Not being outnumbered - I like that.
Not being ganged - I love a good target density
But the paranoia and cluelessness on countrychannel was often almost unbearable. Yes, all chesspieces have their share of armchair generals, squeakers and conspiracy theorists... but the amount of whining about hacks, furballers wasting resources, Hitech being biased against knights, players being "too dumb" to pork fields, ENY never hitting the enemy, bla bla bla still seemed to be much bigger than on Bish or Rooks.
But I think Knights were glad when I switched back to Rooks, you can't trust a spineless countryswitcher anyway ;)
Just my perception of course. Your can and probably will be different...
-
Hmmm, did you guys ever think of multiple maprooms at a base?
For example.. Would a big military post, like our Airbases, just
fold up and quit because the little town nextdoor fell to enemies?
HELL NO!!! LOL!!!
I say, put a maproom next to the tower, for the brultra melons to hide...
If they want the base, make them FIGHT onto the field to take it..
If there was a VH in the town, which was bound to the town MR..
Capture the town MR, you own the town VH too...
That would break a fight into outer and inner defenses.. With the
fight intensifying the closer they get to the goal...
It would also eliminate the simple smash and grab NOE stuff... It
would still be "possible", but far more complicated to achieve...
You would have to take BOTH maprooms to sieze the base..
Just an idea... I'm sure some won't like that, LOL!!!
IMO, that would be VERY interesting...
RC
-
Rox just can't help himself.
-
See Rule #4
-
It is apparent that you are not trying to improve your flying at all.
-
It is apparent that you are not trying to improve your flying at all.
Adonai :confused: :noid
-
I agree with Buster..... Great point made by BnZs, as usual, but.....
Read my lips: Running an NOE with a crowd of 110s and and one C-47 full of troops to an undefended base does *not* much resemble in any way how the "map was moved" in WWII.
2 problems with this, very common, statement.
...to an undefended base...
The mission planners of NOE mission's..... No matter how you slice it, are not in charge of enemy base defense.
...to an undefended base...
And quite honestly, my lips would be licked as I up an LA7 to say hello to 10 NOE 110's with nothing but E. Oh but were they waiting for the goon... Not even so much E then.
...to an undefended base...
And NOE's did happen in WWII, and they had to be perfect. I don't know who is running these perfect NOE missions, but in any of FALCON23's, there is always some noob who can't keep it down. NOE's are NEVER that invisible.
-
Well as if I don't have my own thread to defend, I'm jumping in here. Frankly I'm with batfink on this. Why in the world would someone try to tell another how to play!! But then again, that should work for how any one plays as long as it is in the confines of the game.
-
I love how its always the furballers fault that the winthe war types can take or hold a base. I was flying knight the other day, spying of course, and watched as horde after horde went after one base for hours. The first run they took the hangers down but got killed by defenders. Then they went back in and got the fighters, but couldn't get all the town down. They then roll a third mass and take the town down, but while waiting for the goon the hangers pop and the get killed. Again they roll to take the hangers down but this time are able to kill the defenders as well. Well by the time to goon gets there (he was killed thew first time) the town starts popping. So another horde rolls and takes the town down. About that time I'm bored and log off but when I log back on a few hours later they still haven't got the base and theres still a big green darbar over the base and people crying orders out.
Seems to me the guys/kids that scream the loadest during a base capture are the ones that upped a goon minutes before any attackers even rolled and is circling the town waiting for the others to do all the work just so he can get another capture. These types are usually the ones who have ten sorties in a fighter with 20 K/D ratio, two hundred sorties in attack with a 3-5 K/D ratio, and twenty or more captures in each bomber and vehicle category.
-
Seems to me the guys/kids that scream the loadest during a base capture are the ones that upped a goon minutes before any attackers even rolled and is circling the town waiting for the others to do all the work just so he can get another capture. These types are usually the ones who have ten sorties in a fighter with 20 K/D ratio, two hundred sorties in attack with a 3-5 K/D ratio, and twenty or more captures in each bomber and vehicle category.
Ahhhh that's my fav... people driving an M3 with troops to a untouched base, then yelling all the time about nobody supporting them. "I have troops at AXX, just need to get town down and base capped". And then they complain about how rooks/bish/nits do suck for not being teamplayers at all :rofl
But I beg to differ on the last one. Usually that aren't the guys with a 10-1 K/d. Yes, often they don't have many fighter sorties at all, but they have more like K/S 0.17, K/H 1.5, K/D 0,3 ;)
-
Ahhhh that's my fav... people driving an M3 with troops to a untouched base, then yelling all the time about nobody supporting them. "I have troops at AXX, just need to get town down and base capped". And then they complain about how rooks/bish/nits do suck for not being teamplayers at all :rofl
But I beg to differ on the last one. Usually that aren't the guys with a 10-1 K/d. Yes, often they don't have many fighter sorties at all, but they have more like K/S 0.17, K/H 1.5, K/D 0,3 ;)
Ah yes lusche but that's a whole other breed of tard. The ones with those kind of starts usually are the ones that are shouting that stuff in caps lock and/or on 200. :aok