Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Klauss on February 15, 2009, 06:51:28 PM
-
I decided to start working on the skin about 2 hours ago, here are some pictures with the plane that will be in-game soon enough. It is work in progress, nothing is final, i know i have to work a lot on it. It is just a simple preview. If you have helpful pieces of advice, they are welcome.
... Enjoy...Green 5
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/1.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/2.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/3.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/4.jpg)
I have a problems with it:
1) the rivets and panel lines get a green-like shadow/conture, why don't they stay black/grey (the same color in as they are in the layer)
-
Wow, that is DARK! I use HTML notation 252621 for RLM22 (schwarz) and fef8ed for RLM21 (weiss). With those colors you'll be able to tone down your panel lines to a normal level (3-6 usually works pretty good IMO).
Also, the font for the 5 is wrong, look for DIN 251 Mittelschrift.
Other than that, it looks pretty good.
-
Thank you, I know what RLM is, but what is "fef8ed"? Sorry but i am new to photoshop or any other program, so i am having big trouble understanding some things. How do i tone down my panel lines or the rivets? They are black in my layer, but when i combine it with the black layer and decals, etc, they get a green tint around them (pixelized tint).
-
Don't use PS, so I won't be able to show you the the steps visually (what buttons to press etc.) but i can try to help you with what you want to do.
How do i tone down my panel lines or the rivets?
Turn down the 'opacity' of the layer that they are on.
Thank you, I know what RLM is, but what is "fef8ed"?
'fef8ed' is the HTML notation (or hex code, whatever you want to call it) for I use RLM 21. There should be some bar in your color selection menu that will allow you to paste that in there. Alternatively I can give you the RGB values if you would like.
Not sure what's happening with your other problem, it's probably just photoshop distorting the image when it's converting it from 5,000+ colors to 256 for the game.
-
It may be an adobe problem, because when i get the layers together, from RGB to Indexed, nothing happens, rivets and panel lines are ok, but in-game the problem appears. I would very much appreciate it if you could help me with the RGB values, i know how to insert those. I will gather more info/material in the next few days, and will learn more about adobe and how to use it on skins.
-
Heya Klauss,
If you will, give us an internal view looking out over the wing. I'm curious to see the riveting and panel lines up a little closer (re: the green effect you mentioned.) It is really hard for us to critique anything with no effects being done to it yet. IMO that is where all the flavor of the skin comes from. If the panel lines and riveting lines up correctly then Good Job! :aok
I believe the weathering is going to help you with some of your problems of the very dark paint as well, though I agree the current RGB used is off somewhat. Once you dirty her up it helps tremendously.
ReDhAwK
-
RLM22-
37
38
33
RLM21
254
248
237
-
Also, to help you with the hex code that was mentioned....
In your color palette (when you are selecting a color in Photoshop) you will notice the 3 RGB values on the left hand side. Under the 3rd RGB entry place, you will find another entry location...this is the hex entry. I have circled it in Yellow on the graphic.
ReDhAwK
-
Thank you both for a better understanding of RGB, and that code.
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/5.jpg)
Notice the green-like tint around the writing and the rivets? and on the panel lines...
-
I think that's just the game. It has a tendency to distort things more than converting them to indexed does.
-
So there is no way to have just a simple RLM 22 background and with a nice black rivets/panel lines? There must be something... :(
-
Sure you can. It looks fine once you adjust the panel opacity and add weathering and all other such tomfoolery.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/weatheringandallothersuchtomfoolery.jpg)
-
Ok, well, i'll just figure it out in the morning. Think i will work on the panel lines and rivets tomorow, find the exact "5" font, will post more pictures tomorow.
-
There should not be any green effect to any of the black lines nor rivets after indexing the graphic. I believe I read that you are converting inside Photoshop itself rather than an external converter. That is fine. However, sometimes something like this crops up in Photoshop. This is one of the reasons I always use an external converter (I use a program called Bright.)
I would be curious to see a blown up portion of the actual indexed bitmap on the wing to see if any green distortion is there, in Photoshop itself. Not the .psd but the actual 8 bit indexed bitmap you imported to the game. (not trying to be insulting. I just dont know your level of expertise in graphics yet. Sorry on being "overly" descriptive) ;)
edit: Just thought about this. Is your screen resolution 1024 in game or is it 512? That distortion could be coming from a 512 distortion of a 1024 graphic.
ReDhAwK
-
Black paint doesn't wear very well. Smooth spots get polished into it by repeated access, footsteps chip away at it showing what was underneath, and in general black fades as it weathers in the sunlight.
Just leaving it a solid paint-bucket-fill of black color doesn't do it justice, IMO. You're really going to need to weather it, to sell the skin when folks use it.
-
Black paint doesn't wear very well. Smooth spots get polished into it by repeated access, footsteps chip away at it showing what was underneath, and in general black fades as it weathers in the sunlight.
Just leaving it a solid paint-bucket-fill of black color doesn't do it justice, IMO. You're really going to need to weather it, to sell the skin when folks use it.
As much as I'd like to agree with you, many players will use anything that's solid black. See the black 110 skin.
-
As much as I'd like to agree with you, many players will use anything that's solid black. See the black 110 skin.
ugh... I know.
But trust me, they will appreciate it that much more when it's got more depth.
-
I absolutely agree with this. However, I was gonna wait until I saw the weathering application and make my suggestion there. :aok
ReDhAwK
-
Noting the majority of "black" skins in the game don't have any, I wanted to head it off at the pass before it was fast-tracked to the outbox.
-
Just woke up, Redhawk, what do you want to see exactly want to see? The final product after "panel/rivets" + and solid color are put together? Krusty, i will listen to your advice, and i want to ask you if it is accepted to weather the skin by our own imagination, because the only pictures i have are from a miniature model (that does not show pretty much any weathering on the plane). It may just be me, but i see that the plane is not completely black, seems that it has some sort of dark blue "glow to it". I will try to make the skin after your suggestions, because my lack of "know how" in any picture editing program is almost zero. Motherland, i did put the RLM 22, instead of the black skin, look ok, but in the sun, looks more like a very very dark green/olive, is that right? or i should apply any other layers with diff. colours above it. Thank you all again for the help/tips
-
Don't be too alarmed by the green hue that you are getting. It is definitely possible to introduce noise into the skin during the conversion process. The Bright program mentioned is very clean. I was having a similar problem on a skin that I was working on, and was able to determine that my noise was a function of how the game renders the lighting effects on the skin. Try looking at the same spot with different sun angles and see if the green moves. An easy way to do that is to take off from different directions from the offline field. If the green moves, it is lighting. If it stays in the same place, it is noise in your skin. Once you have applied the age and wear to the skin, the effects will not be as noticeable. They will still stand out to you, but most of the rest of us will not be able to see them. Don't give up hope.
-
Photoshop has a 'Bright' plug-in that I use when exporting skins.
Try to pull back the intensity of that black a little... it is very, very deep.
If this makes sense... try to make it a more 'shallow' black with a bit of texture to it... Darker and lighter parts... bit more gloss and and matte here and there for scuffed areas and untouched areas.
-
Heya Klauss,
Geophro has a good point of light rendering the green effect and I completely agree that the weathering should take care of any of those issues. So I really dont have anything to offer until the weathering is done. When it comes to your weathering of the aircraft, everyone has their own ways of doing it. But you will probably have the following Layer Sets when you have it completed....
Background
Paint
Panel Lines
Rivets
National Markings
Weathering
Originals
So on and So on and So on. Typical skin for me (on the low side) around 10-15 Layer Sets. Multiple individual layers within each set. Now, that includes the panel lines 1-2-and 3. Rivets 1-2-and 3. Individual paint layers. Ect, ect. I actually make a Layer Set to manage my layers. Example..
Layer Set Name... Weathering
Individual Layers in set..... o Chipping
o Scratches
o Oil
o Dirt
o Bleaching
o Gunpowder
o Scorch
The only reason I write all this down for you is where you mentioned you dont know really where to start with the weathering. Think about the way an aircraft weathers over its lifetime. Sharp chipping of the paint (access hatches) vs. worn down areas of paint (walkways.) Think about the discoloring on the wing as old paint is worn away, sun bleached, dirtied by mud on the shoes of the maint personnel and then wiped away, areas re-painted to cover paint that has went away (due to weathering or replacement.) What would the aircraft look like at this point in history. Best resource you could EVER have will be a period photo of the aircraft. Then, as a skinner, you use your toolbox of tricks to emulate that exact paint-scheme! Emulate that exact weathering! If you cant find that exact aircraft, find another in that unit and base your skin from that.
Anyway, wrote far more than intended. Everyone on this board will be very happy to help you with anything we know. I guess I just wanted to give you an idea of what generally goes into a skin as this is really your first one and you seem to want to do it historically accurate.
ReDhAwK
-
Sorry that i haven't posted in hours. Just got back, thank you all for the help on my problem, nice idea with the layers RedHawk! I will try and research more about what you said. I think the best way to learn without bothering you gents with my "how do i do.." type of questions is by trial and error and by following/reading tutorials for photoshop.
One last question, though it may sound childish, how many like the skin? I, personally am very happy about me finding this skin ( always tried to found a all-black 109G ).
-
I think it's great, any new skin I see is great.
-
One of the best (IMO) things to do is to research your a/c if you can.
When was it used? (will help determine what was available for materials for paint, and the quality of the paint, how fawst did it need to be painted?)
How often was it flown? (more air time = more wear & tear)
What theater did it operate in? (a sandy African plane would have different wear then a late war, muddy dirt field Easter front plane, etc)
I, personally have about 50 layers going (I make a copy of a few to see how different changes look immediately without having to undo a lot. I just turn the different layers on and off)
Weathering is a personal preference, I guess) I try to approach it like it would happen in real life. i.e. Primered, 1st coat of color, 2nd coat of color, top coat, etc. Instead of adding the weathering (for the most part) I remove it.
With each above layer of paint (as mentioned above), I start erasing my weathering and exposing different layers of paint in different degrees, just like in real life where paint would wear, layer by layer.
Also don't forget about the ground crew guys opening/prying hatches open, putting wrenches to things, and walking on the plane.
As for my opinion, I will agree that the black is much too dark as well as the other observations offered. It's not a quick or easy process.
Also play with the material file (No offense to HTC, but the default is too cookie cutter) On the other hand, if they tweaked each and every one, what fun would be left for the skinner guys? :D
The best advice that was given to me which , as time goes by, I realize to be true is.... DO NOT RUSH the job. There is no hurry to submit it. Most guys will respect the fact that you have called "dibs" on a skin. Another thing is to just walk away from it for an hour, a day, a week. You will get a different perspective some times.
-
Man that is one sexy 109 G6. :O
-
oakranger, you are damn right my friend ;), all our search was worth it. Will work hard in the next days to post new pics.
-
Motherland, the font for the "5" is not that one, it's NL PREWAR, check the photo. I can send you the font if you need it.
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/DSCN4526-1.jpg)
-
Interesting. I've never seen that before.
-
Man that is one sexy 109 G6. :O
Do you still think I'm sexy? (Yes I will put this in another post, and no, I have not beat it up, yet cause I'm still trying to line some stuff up)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/G6%20Eyeball/Image2.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/G6%20Eyeball/Eyeballg61.gif)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/G6%20Eyeball/ahss212.jpg)
-
^^^^^^^^ Never seen that plane before that will be popular in the game.
-
I seen that pic many time before. Surprise nobody hasn't done it yet.
-
I seen that pic many time before. Surprise nobody hasn't done it yet.
Where do you think the last pic came from? :D
-
7 is the wrong font.. ;)
-
Yeah, yeah, and it looks like crap. :lol blah, blah, blah....
How's about helpin out the Klauss man while you are here?
-
Yeah, yeah, and it looks like crap. :lol blah, blah, blah....
How's about helpin out the Klauss man while you are here?
Its too black. There happy? :lol
-
I think I feel the buyer's remorse setting in on that request. :D
-
I think I feel the buyer's remorse setting in on that request. :D
109G2 of JG77, I already got my dark ride young Padawan.
(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/109G2_JG77_1.jpg)
(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/109G2_JG77_2.jpg)
-
109G2 of JG77, I already got my dark ride young Padawan.
(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/109G2_JG77_1.jpg)
(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/109G2_JG77_2.jpg)
I don't like the scenery :furious
Is that the nude beach you frequent? I demand that you change it !
:rofl
-
my skin is too
black :aok
-
New pictures.
In these days I've mostly learned about photoshop, and how to use for making skins. Found the font, i respected RLM for everything (thank you motherland ), still trying to find a good quality owl decal, if not, will try and work with this one now, for the moment, i know it's not perfect, lots of work to be done, the 5 is off, the crosses are not in a perfect position, need a little adjustment, that the prop swirl is off, the panels the rivets, and so on. Here are a few pics with the diff. All constructive and helpful tips/advices are welcome
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss318.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss316.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss320.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss311.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss329.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss323.jpg)
-
Looking good! :aok
Now it needs some weathering :)
Oh, and no swastika, unfortunately.
-
Wow, somebody said that it's looking good, nice to hear that. I know that isn't allowed, i think they said something like...where the swastika was, i should leave blank or put a iron cross. I was thinking since we have some other type of swastika in game, on FAF skins, maybe i can put one of those? Instead of a regular swastika, just rotate it till it has a square shape, like on the skins we have.
-
I don't think that will work. A blue swastika on a black skin would look silly anyway.
-
I can't change the color and make it white right? :D , well, i'll leave it blank then. Btw, any help for the skin in the current phase? Except weathering and other things i know i need to fix.
-
Das hakenkreuz ist Verboten !!
The "other" swastikas that you have seen are Finnish (which I believe are still in use, today). They are blue on white background, rotated the opposite direction, and have a totally different connotation.
Putting a different one in the same place will not fly, as the skin must be historically accurate (something you are required to provide proof of, by the way)
Leave it blank.
As far as the skin goes....
Still very "shiny". Play with the material settings (the text file).
Let's see some cockpit views. I can't make out any panel lines or rivet lines (or any other details for that matter)
The crosses are very bright and way too new looking. (think of the daily rigors, and environmental conditions that a wartime aircraft would be subject to in all aspects of skinning... scratches where hatches are being opened all of the time, ground crew with greasy hands touching thins, an sirty feet walking on th wings, scuffing the paint, etc)
Other than that, you seem to be making good progress :aok
It's a long road
-
The "other" swastikas that you have seen are Finnish (which I believe are still in use, today). They are blue on white background, rotated the opposite direction, and have a totally different connotation.
Nope, the FAF has changed their roundel to a more PC trio of rings, white on the outside then blue and then white in the center.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Finland_roundel_border.svg/80px-Finland_roundel_border.svg.png)
-
Nope, the FAF has changed their roundel to a more PC trio of rings, white on the outside then blue and white in the center.
Fixed :aok
-
I know everything is new, the numbers, etc, that i will do tomorrow morning. As for the panel lines and rivets, it's the photos on the photobucket that don't show them, they are visible in the game. I will make the rivets a little more visible. I don't know how to "play" with the material file/files. What does that do? Maybe you can show me a "before/after" sort of thing. Got it with the swastika, will leave it blank. The skin itself it's simple, a black paint, green numbers, white crosses, and usual decals (that i forgot to put :D ). I will put pics from the cockpit tomorrow morning, i prefer working on it until i go to sleep. Thank's for the advice.
-
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss311-1.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss312-1.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss316-1.jpg)
-
Since your skin is so dark to begin with, try making a 1 pixel drop shadow (on a new layer) next to your original panel lines.
Soften or blur it (just a bit) and turn down the opacity til you start to see the panels start to look like each one is separate.
I like to soften the edges of almost everything as, in real life, no paint would have sharp lines after hours of flying.
-
Took a printscreen from my workspace. Is this it?
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/1-1.jpg)
-
Try the drop shadow. Do it for the rivets, also. it wall add some "depth" to the places where the panels meet and some "height" to the rivets.
After all, this is a 3-D world we are in :D
-
Those half circles are ventilation ports for the spark plugs. They stick up out of the cowling, even though they aren't modeled in 3D in game. Most people add 3D effects to them.
-
Ty VonMessa. Motherland, should i remove them?
-
No. Wait a second, I'll post an example of what I've done to them as well.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/vents.jpg)
Note that there's also a vent beneath the windscreen. This is present on the right side on all 109 models F and later, and on the left side in some G2's, most G4's, and all models G6 and later.
Basically, I brushed some black airbrush up past the bottom most area of the port, and then white on the top portion, to create a 3D effect.
-
wait....i'm.......i'm seeing something......i want it! :D How did u make that "Vorsicht beim Offnen, Kuhler ist im Haubenleil eingebaul" decal so clear?
-
Just looks that way because of the distance :D
Just typed it in, just like that completely unreadable wing marking that's close to the camera :uhoh
Good thing it's unreadable though (the wing marking that is), I couldn't read it on the decal sheet so it probably doesn't make any sense (I just fudged the characters I couldn't make out :D )
-
Hmm...that engine decal i too clear, my letters are 3-4 pixels MAX. I will try and do one myself ( the engine decal ). I'm sorry that the wiring on the wing is blury. I think it says "Nur hier Betreten!" - Step here only!. Can you please send me the PSD fie containing only the engine decal? I think my writing will look good till i scale it down to put it on my skin. :D
-
Btw what is the font for the engine writing decal?
-
Added some decals, made the panel lines more visible. By the way, I've left the panel numbers visible, any ideas on what color did they use for them when the plane was black? on the deafult skin the numbers are black. I would let them black, but they will become invisible since the "paint" is the same color as the numbers. Any ideas?
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss329-1.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss324-1.jpg)
-
Motherland, maybe you can help me with the font from the engine decal. I can't find the right one :uhoh
-
Ah sorry, working on projects of my own :D
It's DIN 251 Mittelschrift.
-
The numbers on the fuselage panels were only on one side, and they only came painted on factory-direct paintjobs. When planes were repainted in the field, they did not repaint the stencils like these numbers and many other stencils/warnings/symbols. In fact with these field-painted-black planes I don't even think they had the fuel spouts or oil spouts marked.
They definitely wouldn't have wing walk lines, either. Even as early as the BOB those were being overpainted and not re-outlined.
SOMEtimes, for some reason, they masked off the chin oil cooler warning before painting, so these would be intact. Other times, they were painted over, and sometimes painted over and reapplied.
You really need to find a source for the oil cooler warning labels, but all the others (especially the latch position lines, the slat/flap warnings, the trim tabs and all those other goodies) probably need to be removed on this particular skin.
EDIT: Which is why it's important to make the skin look good, because it doesn't have many details
-
Ty Motherland, apreciate it :aok . Krusty, only pictures i have of it and i think exist on the internet are with a 1:32 model. There are pictures of it in a magazine "Luftwaffe im Focus nr. 4", but i can't get my hands on it because it's out of stock, and don't know if/when will it ever be again ( if it ever was ) available. The 1:32 Model has no fuel caps, no decals,no trim tabs, just a all-black model, the numbers 5, white LW crosses, and...that's about it. There are two things that come in mind...First one would be that the author of the 1:32 model didn't respect all de small tiny detailes, decals, and so on...tho the person who does this is a pro at making models respecting historical accuracy. And second, it's as you say...being a night fighter, they got rid of as many colored parts as they could, that could explain the lack of so many decals, trim tabs, etc. My biggest question is....Do i stick to the 1:32 model? Simple black skin with green numbers? Or try and assume that the real plane in real life had what other planes of the period had as standards. ( Personaly i like it with decals, not so "bright" as they are now, will make them less visible" ).
-
On the deafult skin the panel numbers are on both sides...
-
Finished the skin in terms of panel lines, rivets, decals, etc, still need to apply weathering, play with the opacity on many layers, and a bit to work on effects, blur, fade, etc. Here are new pics from what i have worked one for the last hours.
Sorry for the poor quality of photobucket. They look much better in-game.
1. Front wheels.
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/Gear_01.jpg)
2.Tail wheel.
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/Gear_Back_01.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/MG_Tip_01.jpg)
Redone the Mg's.
-
Looking good to me Klauss :aok
-
Thank you! Nothing compared like a bribed squadie to give a thumbs up :rofl, joking :D.
-
Very nice looking MG's!
-
Thank you Motherland, want me to send it to you? By the way, Tell me if you need/like anything. You helped me so much in the skin's development, so if you need anything, or help with anything, just tell me. Ok? Are the wheels ok? They look good in the game, but it's not about how i see them, need your oppinon there.
-
No, thanks, I usually do them myself. Thanks for the offer, though :)
-
Motherland, maybe you can help me with the font from the engine decal. I can't find the right one :uhoh
Dig through the packets I sent you. Every standard marking on a Bf-109 is in there, from the Brunos to the Kurfursts. The modeling info, while in japanese, is good for telling you which decal goes where.
-
Found them :D, Ty, did u recieved my e-mail?
-
Do i stick to the 1:32 model? Simple black skin with green numbers? Or try and assume that the real plane in real life had what other planes of the period had as standards.
Once painted over they did not bother repainting these in most (if not all??) cases.
P.S. The default skin has it wrong, I am fairly sure the numbers are only on one side of the fuselage.
-
Ok Krusty, will leave panel numbers only on one side. I noticed that with so many decals on it, it doesen't look good, don't know why... to much color on the plane, IMO it gives it a "toy" look, to much red/light blue/orange/yellow/bla bla....Will stick to the 1:32 model, and i think you've got it right, Night fighters were painted all black, i will remove the engine decal as well, and the decals on the wings. I am working on simple weathering now, will post pics in a short time.
-
Can somebody help me with the smoke and wingtip lights?
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/smoke01.jpg)
-
Found them :D, Ty, did u recieved my e-mail?
Yes, thank you!
-
Anytime buddy :aok
-
Finished the skin, going to submit it. Thank you all for the help.
-
8 days :noid
World record ?
-
Screenshots?
-
Screenshots?
Same thought.
Just didn't want to be rude (i.e, my normal self) :D
-
will post screenshots in a few h. :aok
-
Hope it gets out there Klauss..
Now see if you can find a black G2 and G14 if they ever painted them in black in real life. :aok
-
Here are the screenshots, as always, excuse me for not looking for a better photo uploading website, photobucket being for me the fastest way to put pics on a website. Most of the weathering details will/may not be visible or low quality, I've tried to imagine the weathering on this plane as best as i could, so, if you don't like it, or think it's wrong, please let me know, that way i can at least improve my future skins. Here are the in-game pictures:
1) Took a picture of the weathering process for the 109g6, This type of weathering is found on most of the aircraft, more or less. Again, quality is not at it's best. In-game looks more clear.
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/W_01.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss381.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss382.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss383.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss385.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss386.jpg)
(http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr151/Klauss_C/ahss387.jpg)
-
I did promise i will make a All-black 109 G2 or G14 for you ( if i find one ) :aok, will start looking tomorrow. If you allready have one in mind, please let me know.
-
Still waiting opinions.... ;)
-
From looking at other planes, I think it needs a bit more weathering on the edge of the wing near the cockpit. How long did this particular bird see service if you can find any info on that? It might give you a rough estimate on how much to put on it.
-
There is some weathering there, not visible in the pictures from photobucket.I did look at most 109G6 skins, not to much weathering around the cockpit for them either. It saw action about 1 year. This 109 flew from night to 11 a.m with other 109's to hunt down mosq.
Glad you didn't say something about to much weathering :lol
-
It is a bit over-weathered IMO. And there's no panel line around landing gear fairings.
-
The panel lines are there, but for some reason they are not so visible in the picture, maybe because the sun. Well, too weathered, not to weathered, i've allready sent it. All that remains is to wait for it to be in-game. Thank you all for the help once again.
-
I think it looks great. Black doesn't show weathering nearly as much as a lighter color imo. The crosses... those are borderline too much but still ok imo. It looks like they've never been touched up once since they were originaly painted on... and that might be my only problem with it (if ground crews would touch up the crosses at all then I think they should look a little less weathered). Otherwise I like that they're dirty on the black background, I don't want to see them look too clean or brand new at all. The crosses being heavily weathered I think go well with the black background... I would think an aircraft painted black would get repainted/touched-up/cleaned a lot less than a lighter-colored aircraft would... not to mention how many times a mechanic probabley didn't even bother to wipe off some black smudge that they got on the black exterior from their hands and working on the oily/greasy inners.
-
Now that cheers me up :) , Well, i wanted it to be a "worn and torn" aircraft, i personally like it the way i weathered it, I did try to imagine that it was the last part of the war, no time for cleaning up aircrafts, they were all in a hurry to up/repair the planes, this plane only flew in autumn (mud/cold/rain/rust/fog) and winter (snow/extreme cold/wet), so i didn't imagine they had time to paint/repaint the airplane too much. I looked at many 109G6 skins in the game, IMO they look too new, and you must zoom to much to really see some weathering. I could have done a lot more to the skin, but i personally can't recreate real life facts in a 1024 picture. Too much details in it and it would be too "full". I preferred to skip some things, and keep it simple...black plane, worn out...I noticed that everybody has a unique style in the skins they make, i personally want to see the plane "used", don't like for example brand new crosses or decals, I've put dirty oil hands, smoke, dirt, chipping,etc, it will look at least OK in the game. I would send you the bmp file for the skin, to see with your own eyes the work, but that would ruin the surprise :rofl
-
That may have been it, I don't do skins, so my judgment isn't too good on these things.
:salute
-
The problem isn't so much that there's too much weathering... it's just that it's not really realistic. There's a relatively indiscriminate layer over the entire aircraft, and though that's fine for a 'base', you really do need some area-specific weathering. On top of that, your area weathering doesn't really resemble much what you'd see on even the most heavily weathered aircraft.
To be honest, I feel that many aircraft, particularly German, in game are extremely over-weathered. Really, although aircraft did start to look weathered as time went on, in very few cases did the aircraft look like total chit. There are probably several reasons for this, I imagine some of which is related to moral. The Germans really did take pretty good care of their aircraft, early in the war they even painted over areas along the wing roots in black to hide the exhaust stains. This practice became more scarce as the war went on, but general cleanliness of the aircraft remained.
Generally, as time went on, aircraft did become visibly weathered, but it was not in the way you have it. One of the big things is that the paint, which from the factory was fairly bright and sharp, with a fair amount of contrast between the colors, would wear down and become darker and less sharp and contrasting. In extreme cases, and in areas of high traffic (pretty much just around the wing root, where pilots had to walk over to get in and out of their aircraft), the paint would completely chip away revealing the dulled metal underneath. This is very common on all Luftwaffe single engined fighters around that area.
In your specific case, the fighter you have is most likely over painted in temporary, or maybe permanent black. In either case, especially considering it was in use for a year, this would start to wear away in some areas and reveal the 74/75/76 finish underneath. These types of finishes also tended to either overlap or not quite meet the markings that were not meant to be overpainted (which was almost always only the fuel filler triangles and the crosses).
Another thing largely absent from your 109 is really localized dirt. This would particularly be around the radiators and landing gear fairings.
The big thing, in my opinion, is to remove yourself completely from the presidents of other skinners, not using their work for reference, and really completely on period photographs. This will give you the most accurate, and thusly in my opinion the best result.
-
No problem 1plus44. I may have it all wrong, maybe other skinners can say that. Overall i am pretty happy how it came out, since it's my first skin, and my first work as a photo eiditing process. Motherland, maybe in the future i will do better. :aok
-
BTW... the stock panel lines for the 109 series are about as accurate as a 14th century model of the universe. I've spent a while getting them pretty close to the real thing, and I've decided I'll put them out there for skinners to use.
http://www.mediafire.com/?2dj2k2mtkaz
Also made this for anyone who wants some quick reference.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/WWIIRLMCOLORPALETTE.png)
-
Your underwing crosses look wrong. Too big and narrow, perhaps?
Even the upper wing crosses look a little big.
The weathering on them is nothing like anything I have ever seen either. Only on late war G10 + aircraft have I seen intentionally 'toned down' national markings. An early/mid Gustav should be sporting distinctive markings.
Unless you have evidence that the night crews toned down the markings?
Did the did they even have the underwing crosses at all on night fighters?
Your actual crosses look like late war crosses too, should they not have the black in the centre? or the Black/white/black?
This is an important part of your skin and I think you should look into it.
You can re-submit a skin at any time.
-
"Did the did they even have the underwing crosses at all on night fighters?" - don't know, maybe, all i know is this plane had them.
"Your underwing crosses look wrong. Too big and narrow, perhaps?
Even the upper wing crosses look a little big." - Check another topic "Anybody have more info on this?", you will find pictures there.
"About the weathering" - Like motherland said, i did a "chit" skin, but hey...just the first one, will do better in the future right? Tho i saw horrible skins in-game.
"Your actual crosses look like late war crosses too, should they not have the black in the centre? or the Black/white/black?" - The plane flew from october 1944 to last days of the war. ( I guess that's late )
-
Are there any actual "photographs" of the aircraft, or just the pics of the model that you posted?
One can't accurately reference from a model. A model is an artist's rendering which is, more or less, an opinion.
Admitting a skin looks like, or in fact is, a "chit" skin, in the skins forum, is probably not a good way to have it accepted.
.02 Pfennig
-
Buy nr. 4 of "Luftwaffe im Focus", pictures of Grune 5 there. They have euros now.
-
I still have a container full of Marks, etc. :D
Seems odd that the prewar markings survived repainting til late war.
-
Yes, funny it's found on a late plane.
-
My comments were not intended to be anything other than constructive criticism. I am curious because I have never seen markings on a Luftwaffe aircraft that look like that.
VonMessa is right about the model thing, I have a bunch of profiles of an aircraft that I am currently building an aircraft of. Not one of them is the same as the other and there are a few photos of the aircraft in books and floating around on the internet. Even with these photos to work from people seem to be able to come up with very different interpretations of what the aircraft actually looked like. Mine will be no different.... an interpretation of a black and white photo that was taken 60 years ago by American soldiers on the victory lap of a war-front.
My interpretation could certainly be incorrect and this is why most skinners try to post (or at least work from) as many photos as they can.
The Nachtjager side of the Luftwaffe is even less well documented than the late-war aircraft from the front lines, so you've picked a difficult subject.
Have you come across any digitised photos of this aircraft? I'd be very interested in seeing them.
-
"Have you come across any digitised photos of this aircraft? I'd be very interested in seeing them." - Me and some other in another topic searched more than one week photos of it, we have found none.
-
It looks good klauss, keep it up!
-
Thank you mechanic :aok
-
I will be looking forward to your new skin, Klaus! :salute
-
I can't wait either, i've finished the skin +30 days ago...no confirmation yet. Since there are no pictures of the real plane on the net, aproving the skin should take 10-15 min, there is nothing to compare it (except they have nr.4 of the magazine "Luftwaffe im Focus". If this is the usual duration before skins get in the game, i'm pretty sure this was my last skin, was working on a Sonderkommando "ELBE" skin, but i think i'll scrap it, no use in working 6-7h per day, and then waiting more then one month for a job that can be done in 20 minutes.
-
I think the duration between the last two skin packs was ~6 months.
-
How long before you submited the skin and it got in the game? how many days?
-
They don't send out any kind of notification until they're ready to put out the new skin pack.
-
aha..i thought: I create the skin, i send them the skin, they check it out, i recieve confirmation that skins is ok (historicaly, bla bla), they get the skin in the game, ppl download it.
Nice to know what you said. Thanks...