Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: stroker71 on February 16, 2009, 12:34:41 AM

Title: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: stroker71 on February 16, 2009, 12:34:41 AM
Again it's not a whine just wana know why this sort of thing happens.  Why would 2 of the 3 sides fight heavier against 1 side when there is plenty of bases an all sides to attack?  I know it happens at times to all sides so this just happens to be Knights.  I don't like to fly with or fight against the huge hordes because you can't have a good 1v1.  Is it the lemming effect?  Every base I went to on rook and bish front I got ganged and only once (i think...got rammed) wasn't able to fly back and land.  Are knights easy easy kills?  Are they the biggest threat?  Is it fun to fly with a 4-5 plane advantage?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/jake_94pgt/ahss19.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/jake_94pgt/ahss18.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/jake_94pgt/ahss17.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/jake_94pgt/ahss16.jpg)
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Bronk on February 16, 2009, 12:36:29 AM
Path of least resistance.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Getback on February 16, 2009, 12:38:38 AM
I noticed that the other night. Don't have an answer but I've seen that from the Bishops and Rooks side as well. Just seems to be Knights turn. Hang in there it changes. Personally I always attack the most threatening side. If that helps.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: uptown on February 16, 2009, 12:40:25 AM
HEY! WTG 412th.

Anyway, back to your question. Fact is, no one likes the Knights. Some even call them nit-wits (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/Scared-1.gif)
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Getback on February 16, 2009, 12:44:38 AM
HEY! WTG 412th.

Anyway, back to your question. Fact is, no one likes the Knights. Some even call them nit-wits (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/Scared-1.gif)

Gawd!!  :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Masherbrum on February 16, 2009, 12:46:33 AM
All weekend the Rooks were ganged, less people and less bases.

Bronk is correct.   
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Chalenge on February 16, 2009, 12:50:38 AM
What I have noticed is the weekends bring more 'lunacy' in improbable engagements and the way individuals go about things. If you are going to die... stupidly... it will probably happen on the weekend. That said... the group dynamic is usually focused upon furballs and not land grabs at least where the bish are concerned the mood seems to be centered around engaging impossible numbers repeatedly without a consideration to strategy like porking or resupply (unless its HQ). We dont seem to have a problem getting people to do things when asked but I think the missions are very often over populated for all teams. Maybe a good move would be capping mission sizes or has that already been suggested?
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: bmwgs on February 16, 2009, 01:45:59 AM
All weekend the Rooks were ganged, less people and less bases.

Bronk is correct.   

The funny part of this is this.  Me personally I have never from day one paid attention who was Knights or Rooks.  When I meet a con in the air I never notice in their icon wheather they are Knights or Rooks.  I never look to see how many people are on any side.  I know when our numbers are up because the eny kicks in.

It has never matter to me which side someone flys or fights for.  It's all red to me and I just look for flashing home bases and either up a plane or GV.  It had never entered my mind to look to see which country the base was being attacked by.

Does everyone else really watch this?  Maybe I am missing something.

Fred
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Scotch on February 16, 2009, 01:48:55 AM
This is what the arenas have become.

We're supposed to just 'get used to it' or quit.
Wonder if anyone's interested in making a new sim...
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Lusche on February 16, 2009, 02:05:52 AM
I want to point that beyond all reasons like "walking past of least resistance" (which indeed does happen, I'm not going to argue this) there are sometimes other things causing such 2-1 situations as well.

For example distribution of starting bases after log-in. Many players don't really scan the map thoroughly after logging in. They just head for the fight closest to their start base. If know Rooks & Bish have their respective starting base (The one with lowest number) on the Knight front, both will start to attack Knights in big numbers without any consideration or hesitation. You can observe this effect quite well on maps like Baltic, NDisles or Sfma (with it's eternal A1-A2 Furball)

Another one the dynamic of the war. Moving fronts sometimes result in one front having much closer distances between opposing bases than the other one, or with less obstructions like 20k mountain ranges.

All those reasons can add up, then throw in some obvious gregariousness (often called "hording" ;)) and the result is one side getting thrashed.


--------------

And on the "that is what the arenas have become"... It's not a recent trend, it's exactly the same way it had been 4 years ago when I started.
In some respects, it's even less worse. Players seem to forget how things were working under the old "win teh war" conditions.




Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Getback on February 16, 2009, 02:12:35 AM
Personally I'd rather fly into a horde than fly with a horde. My last night flying I went to vbase 98 to defend from a cv attack even though there was a full dar bar there and no greenies. There were some gv'ers heading there though but they needed some air support. Now I like to survive as much as the next guy so I came in at 10k expecting the attackers to be low. However there was a co alt seafire but fortunately not co E. I dispensed with him and then began dodging puffy ack f6s etc. Soon another Rook showed up, Grackel, and we had some fun.  
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Dadano on February 16, 2009, 03:01:19 AM
Most just rather fight the green guys for kills than the red. Simple as that.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: 1pLUs44 on February 16, 2009, 03:43:37 AM
Shoot, maybe I should go knit? I'm guaranteed a fight.  :aok
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: caldera on February 16, 2009, 07:18:53 AM
In LW Orange yesterday, bish and nits were ganging rooks. Meanwhile, bish were taking nit bases left and right on the other front.
It doesn't matter what side you're on, it's always "so you can all gang up on the weaker ones, like winston."   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Ciaphas on February 16, 2009, 07:48:06 AM
UHm.... Since this is a simulated war and all... The object is to win, right? So... who cares how you win as long as it's all kept legit with the program.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: VonMessa on February 16, 2009, 07:52:04 AM
Path of least resistance.

Like electricity?  Or human nature?

Same reason I drink beer instead of pouring it up my nose.  Too much resistance that way (besides, I have to stand on my head to do it)
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: B4Buster on February 16, 2009, 08:29:18 AM
This happens to all three sies, of course you wouldn't notice when you're doing it to someone else  :aok

Just means more targets
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: BlauK on February 16, 2009, 08:47:42 AM
Usually people go to where the fight is and in some occasions it leads into 2 countries vs 1.

I personally prefer going where there are most enemies available, but if the other 2 coutries mainly fight between themselves, I go after the stronger country.

I see now other benefit in banging the smaller country than if there is an attempt to reset the map. Just milking an underdog for the sake of milking gives nothing to me.


ps. B4Buster, thanks for the recent lesson. I remember not to underestimate those twin tailed ones again for a while  :noid
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: 1Boner on February 16, 2009, 09:07:49 AM
Bronk is correct.   


Hey Now!!

Gonna hafta wash your mouth out with soap!!

Your grounded for a week!!

Now go to your room!!
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: bongaroo on February 16, 2009, 09:11:53 AM
Cattb in the dweebfire mark 8, tsk tsk.   :D
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Bronk on February 16, 2009, 09:15:08 AM
Cattb in the dweebfire mark 8, tsk tsk.   :D
Col. Mustard in the library with a lead pipe.
Ohh wait a tic. ;)
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on February 16, 2009, 09:52:00 AM
Flawed game design.

Why?

Because anytime you have 2 going into 1 its a bull crap situation.(No, its not? ask the nazi's.)
Hence why we need another front 2 vs 2, but that would not work because then it would just be 3 into 1.


Dang, no real way around it.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Shuffler on February 16, 2009, 10:00:12 AM
Flawed game design.

Why?

Because anytime you have 2 going into 1 its a bull crap situation.(No, its not? ask the nazi's.)
Hence why we need another front 2 vs 2, but that would not work because then it would just be 3 into 1.


Dang, no real way around it.


HT says 4 does not work.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: VonMessa on February 16, 2009, 10:03:45 AM
I would say that 90% of the time, I never notice what country I am fighting.  I fly into the furball and shoot at the red things.

It's only when I notice the red things shooting at each other that I realize that there is more than one chess piece enemy in the CZ.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: NOT on February 16, 2009, 10:17:12 AM
Make it 2 sided, with auto-balancing. If you have to send a whole squad, then so be it.




NOT
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: allaire on February 16, 2009, 10:22:21 AM
That is the only way to stop the 2v1 rants. Only have 2 chess pieces.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: stroker71 on February 16, 2009, 10:39:30 AM
I don't think 2 sides is the anwser and this wasn't put up as a rant.  AvA is a 2 sided arena and it's dead most of the time. 

If there is this "winz th3 war" mentality then by ganging one side has left you open to attack.  Lets say sides a and b are ganging c.  Side a is the low number team and should IMO keep up the attacks so maybe side b won't attack them.  Side b once again IMO should notice the number imbalance and run a few side a bases.  It's a matter of stratagy the way I see it.   

Thanks for the most part keeping this civil :salute
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: caldera on February 16, 2009, 10:45:35 AM
That is the only way to stop the 2v1 rants. Only have 2 chess pieces.

It would be even better if the teams were renamed as Team Jumbo Ta-Tas and Team Junk in the Trunk.

We may settle the age-old debate right here in AH2!  :)
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: VonMessa on February 16, 2009, 11:01:47 AM
It would be even better if the teams were renamed as Team Jumbo Ta-Tas and Team Junk in the Trunk.

We may settle the age-old debate right here in AH2!  :)

What if I prefer both?    :noid
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: caldera on February 16, 2009, 11:10:08 AM
What if I prefer both?    :noid

Then you'd be a side-switching spy!!!!
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: VonMessa on February 16, 2009, 11:18:20 AM
I refuse to believe that!!!

I like both Jumbo Ta-Ta's and some Junk In The Trunk  :furious

What's a guy supposed to do?     :D
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: LLogann on February 16, 2009, 12:05:59 PM
You know I never thought about it until just now..... So I looked.

I'm an equal opportunity killer, but it seems that the Rooks are a little tougher to kill, for me.

Current Tour:
Kills of:
Knights - 52
Rooks - 55

Killed by:
Knights - 17
Rooks - 50

Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: stroker71 on February 16, 2009, 01:27:12 PM
Guess I like to spead the love out a bit more:

Current tour:
Kills of:
Bish - 182
rooks - 222

Killed by:
Bish - 39
Rook - 33

I guess rooks are easier kills for me. :rock
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Getback on February 16, 2009, 01:32:57 PM
Country   Kills As   Kills Of
Bishop   116             0
Knight   0            82
Rook           0            34


Country   Killed As   Killed By
Bishop   48             0
Knight   0           41
Rook          0           7

oops been picking on the Knights. But they picked back.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Animl on February 16, 2009, 02:20:41 PM
UHm.... Since this is a simulated war and all... The object is to win, right? So... who cares how you win as long as it's all kept legit with the program.

It's just cheesy. A sign of weakness on the ganging sides. I mean, you can't do it unless you have 5-1 odds? That's kinda like street punk gangs feeling like they are bad because 5-7 of them beat up one guy. It's dweebery. Catch one alone and you could stomp him senseless. Because it takes 5 whimps to beat up one guy. <shrug>

Although I wasn't sniveling, it was target rich for us, and the kills were somewhat easy. AND for the hordes used didn't get very far for the out numbering. That horde should have owned the Rook nation. So it's not like I wouldn't call it successful for the gangers.

Animl
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: uptown on February 16, 2009, 02:57:56 PM
I just left blue arana and rooks and bish were ganging on the nits. Rooks have over 100 fields, bish over 80 and nits are down to 40 some. Nits were pretty slim pickens on rook front. Most were fighting the bish off. Pretty boring. :frown:
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: bongaroo on February 16, 2009, 03:06:40 PM
Anyone remember when one side would sometimes be down to 3 or 4 bases?  A couple would be completely porked and the vulch light would be on at all of them.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: 715 on February 16, 2009, 03:13:04 PM
I agree with others that one side being ganged is the natural outcome of a three sided war.  It's true that AvA (a two sided war) is almost always empty but, when it does have people, the sides are usually pretty well balanced.  Still, that probably doesn't say much about how the MA would turn out if it were forced to be a two sided war.  Would be nice if it were at least tried once.  I know almost everyone's response will be "grow some [insert body part here]" but fighting against overwhelming odds almost always has a very predictable and boring outcome.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: NOT on February 16, 2009, 03:38:38 PM
i dont think the AvA is a legitimate  reference, due to the limited planeset. most people want to fly what they want.




NOT
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Animl on February 16, 2009, 03:54:26 PM
Country   Kills As   Kills Of
Bishop   116             0
Knight   0            82
Rook           0            34


Country   Killed As   Killed By
Bishop   48             0
Knight   0           41
Rook          0           7

oops been picking on the Knights. But they picked back.

I'm noticing Knits have tendency to go into instant vulch mode and seem to be into the gang bang or nothing tactics. Seems as soon as they meet equal resistance they drag up and move to a less protected base. I've watched this on many occasions, not just a single observation, it has a distinct pattern to it. Maybe it's just certain squads and not the whole country, but it is a realistic observation.

The night you initially talked about was that exact example. And if a country gives them a taste of their own medicine in return they get their panties in a wad  <shrug> to each their own I guess. I mean, you're ganging a base, vulching and the whole 9 yards and complaining that the defenders landed too many kill and lost too many bases... any light bulb going on?

Its very hard for me to take this whine thread too seriously. If anything this thread should be about the uber gang banging, 5\7-1 odds. Not that the defenders were giving better then expected defenses.

2 cents

Animl
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: NOT on February 16, 2009, 03:58:26 PM
Quote
I'm noticing Knits have tendency to go into instant vulch mode and seem to be into the gang bang or nothing tactics.

the exact same thing can be said for bish and rooks. as part of a squad that rotates monthly, i can say from experience, its the same in all 3.




NOT
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: stroker71 on February 17, 2009, 12:10:02 AM
Wow tonight in blue...just wow.  Rooks even was attacking an uncapturable base instead of going after the bish for the reset.  But on a lighter side thanks for the kills <S>!

Current tour:
Kills of:
Bish - 204
Rook - 249

Deaths by:
Bish - 41
Rook - 40

Keep ganging!  Overall K/D of 5.52 not to bad for me
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Lusche on February 17, 2009, 12:19:35 AM
Wow tonight in blue...just wow.  Rooks even was attacking an uncapturable base instead of going after the bish for the reset.

So much for the theory most players are being basegrabbers & win-teh-war! guys. ;)
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Lusche on February 17, 2009, 12:23:29 AM
Anyone remember when one side would sometimes be down to 3 or 4 bases?  A couple would be completely porked and the vulch light would be on at all of them.

That was pretty much standard when winning the war was accomplished by just having most bases of the country that had been whittled down to three airfields. So there was never any need to attack the other country also running for the reset.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Animl on February 17, 2009, 01:23:26 PM
Wow tonight in blue...just wow.  Rooks even was attacking an uncapturable base instead of going after the bish for the reset.  But on a lighter side thanks for the kills <S>!

Current tour:
Kills of:
Bish - 204
Rook - 249

Deaths by:
Bish - 41
Rook - 40

Keep ganging!  Overall K/D of 5.52 not to bad for me

<blank stare>

Anyone who post incomplete data can't be totally honest. I was in the Blue arena, I didn't not see what you saw. I saw Bish and Knits ganging Rooks. and When rooks dropped in numbers and just fought Bish,.. Knits kept on taking undefended bases, as they do on a nightly basis. I don't repeat single observation, I report stuff I see over and over,.. so don't try to push a single 5 minute instance on me like it must be rule of thumb,.. we all know what the truth is, no matter what comes out in text here. We're not missing half our brains.

And keep on ganging is exactly what they did.... obviously it's total dweeb mentality and exactly what people have been complaining about for a long time now.

Seems to me people are taking moans from the BB and exploiting them because the BB tells them what's working. Complain anout HO and they increase, complain about ganging and they increase.

HT is perfectly correct. Large squads are a negative impact to the game and other players in it. Because if the large squad leader is a dweeb,... then arena becomes dweeb infested.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: stroker71 on February 17, 2009, 01:36:32 PM
Maybe it was orange then...Pizza map.  I don't really pay much attention to what arena I am in...my bad.  I am generally the first/only one on in my 4 man squad so arena caps don't bother me.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Chalenge on February 17, 2009, 01:39:48 PM
I prefer to escort my squads bombers when they hit fields. Knights defend more often then rooks do and knights attack bishops more often then rooks or so it seems. I kill knights at a ratio of something like 5:1 over rooks and overall k/d is something over 23:1 not that I see any of those details have anything to do with the OP. I fly where I feel I can have the most impact and if knights are putting pressure on us I will try to help in removing the pressure and the same goes for rooks.
Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: Animl on February 17, 2009, 04:30:53 PM
I prefer to escort my squads bombers when they hit fields. Knights defend more often then rooks do and knights attack bishops more often then rooks or so it seems. I kill knights at a ratio of something like 5:1 over rooks and overall k/d is something over 23:1 not that I see any of those details have anything to do with the OP. I fly where I feel I can have the most impact and if knights are putting pressure on us I will try to help in removing the pressure and the same goes for rooks.

The best defense under bad odds is offense. A horde mounts and deploys from known base,..too much to defend? Hit the source. They aren't just flying do nothing. And over-hording produces predictable outcomes. In other words, why waste all those planes and pilots defending against a massive horde, when you can just go kill the base they came from while they are all out in the horde.

I think it's kinda ridiculous to say one country defends more then another. When you're getting pummeled by two horrendous hordes how can you even see through all that kack to know if they are defending or not? If they are upping then that's all the defense they have. How can you expect anyone to have an in your face defense against that? Upping from a capped base, in which the horde starts off right off the bat vulching the base to pieces and chronic HOing when the odds are in their favor? I go up against 7 knits alone, 5 out of 7 pulled the HO.

It's not that Rooks don't defend, it's the odds they are up against that makes it appear that way. A lot of them will just tire of the dweeb hordes and log off, or try to find a corner to see if there is actually anyone on an opposing side to have a 1-1

You do not need 50-70 planes (from one country alone) to take a base that has 7-10 uppers, if you do, then the problem is within, lack of tactic is probably one issue, dweebery is probably #1. As Moot pointed out, several pilots can take a base. 50-70 (from each side) is pure nonsense.  >IMO< A sign the dweebs have consumed the arenas.

It's one thing to over-horde a single country (better yet constant milk running),.. whateva, to each their own,.. but then for others from that kack come on the BB and complain that the target was a push over, or rooks don't defend.....my mind cannot compute that. Of course I am referring to another thread, along with this one.

I don't want to hear any whining when Rooks tire of it and mount some devastating hordes themselves. Because that's all it promotes,.. more senseless hordes.

Title: Re: Not a whine...just wana know
Post by: caldera on February 17, 2009, 04:35:51 PM
Oh puleeeeze! Rooks horde just as much as bish and nits. You should have seen LW orange last night. Horde after horde after horde.

All the while bish/rook front had way smaller dar bars.  Every country gets ganged, even the bish.  ;)