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General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Dragon on February 17, 2009, 08:04:41 AM

Title: Computer rebuild
Post by: Dragon on February 17, 2009, 08:04:41 AM
I'm working on updating a friends comp and looking for a bit of advice.  He doesn't do any gaming but does tinker with video editing.  Budget is as close to $300 as possible.  Eide hard drive in machine(250G) is new, 2 external HD's (500 and 750 G) are new, CD and DVD are 6 months old.  Looking to replace motherboard, processor and ram only.  XP Pro

Looking at:
 I don't normally do AMD, but the price is right on this combo.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4362097&CatId=2417 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4362097&CatId=2417)

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2604150&sku=T925-1168 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2604150&sku=T925-1168)

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3079597&CatId=2368 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3079597&CatId=2368)

It's a Dell box and we are hoping the power supply will be OK, but if an upgrade is needed, it can be added.

Any thoughts, concerns, comments?
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Getback on February 17, 2009, 08:56:09 AM
I doubt if the PS will be okay. Dell builds their machines to the minimum. However, post the PS specs and I'm sure some folks will give you some solid advice.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Dragon on February 17, 2009, 09:05:29 AM
Just checked, 250 W. 
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Getback on February 17, 2009, 09:15:17 AM
Quote from: Dragon on February 17, 2009, 09:05:29 AM
Just checked, 250 W. 

Look at your components and see what they require.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Getback on February 17, 2009, 09:18:42 AM
I honestly don't think you are going to build this for $300. BTW you can drop the heatsink and fan. Have you looked at Newegg and Mwave.com.

I'm curious about the case too. I wonder if that Dell case is proprietary.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Wobbly on February 17, 2009, 09:52:57 AM
I'd make sure the mobo fits a Dell case, Dell is not always standard.

I read that Dell psus are actually quite good - they quote constant watts rather than peak.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: BaldEagl on February 17, 2009, 09:54:26 AM
Try this:

   
Update   GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3L LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #:GA-EP45-UD3L
Item #:N82E16813128372
Return Policy:30 Day Return Policy
In Stock
  $98.99   $98.99
   
Update   Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
Model #:BX80570E8400
Item #:N82E16819115037
Return Policy:Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
In Stock
  $164.99   $164.99
   
Update   Kingston HyperX NVIDIA SLI-Ready 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KHX8500D2K2/2GN - Retail
Model #:KHX8500D2K2/2GN
Item #:N82E16820104008
Return Policy:Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy
In Stock
  $34.99   $34.99
Subtotal: $298.97
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Denholm on February 17, 2009, 01:46:27 PM
Wow, nice find Bald.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Dragon on February 17, 2009, 03:31:17 PM
Quote from: Getback on February 17, 2009, 09:18:42 AM
I honestly don't think you are going to build this for $300. BTW you can drop the heatsink and fan. Have you looked at Newegg and Mwave.com.

I'm curious about the case too. I wonder if that Dell case is proprietary.

Can't drop the heat sink and fan, combo DOES NOT come with one.  Just looked at Newegg and Mwave.  Changed the order a bit:

RAIDMAX SMILODON Extreme Black ATX-612WEBP 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Foldout MB Computer Case With 500W Power Supply - Retail 59.99

OCZ Platinum Revision-2 2048MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 x 1024MB)  29.99

Thermaltake TR2-R1 / AMD Socket AM2/939/754 / Aluminum / 92mm Fan / CPU Cooler  19.99

EVGA nForce 730a Motherboard CPU Bundle - AMD Phenom X4 9550 Quad Core Processor 2.20GHz OEM  199.99

Total $310 and the customer is  :)

Bald, the AMD 9550 tests quite a bit better than the E8400 according to Toms hardware in the areas that this system will be used for.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Getback on February 17, 2009, 04:19:02 PM
Quote from: Dragon on February 17, 2009, 03:31:17 PM
Can't drop the heat sink and fan, combo DOES NOT come with one.  Just looked at Newegg and Mwave.  Changed the order a bit:

RAIDMAX SMILODON Extreme Black ATX-612WEBP 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Foldout MB Computer Case With 500W Power Supply - Retail 59.99

OCZ Platinum Revision-2 2048MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 x 1024MB)  29.99

Thermaltake TR2-R1 / AMD Socket AM2/939/754 / Aluminum / 92mm Fan / CPU Cooler  19.99

EVGA nForce 730a Motherboard CPU Bundle - AMD Phenom X4 9550 Quad Core Processor 2.20GHz OEM  199.99

Total $310 and the customer is  :)

Bald, the AMD 9550 tests quite a bit better than the E8400 according to Toms hardware in the areas that this system will be used for.

Ah rgr, I just automatically assumed that all CPUs come with heatsinks. That's been my experience. Guess they cut it out on the combo.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Dragon on February 17, 2009, 07:38:48 PM
I thought so too, but when I bought my parts for my build, I got the Intel 6750 OEM, came with no heatsink or fan, had to delay the build till my monster heatsink/fan showed up.  30 bucks more, but worth it.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: 1701E on February 17, 2009, 08:02:22 PM
Quote from: Getback on February 17, 2009, 04:19:02 PM
Ah rgr, I just automatically assumed that all CPUs come with heatsinks. That's been my experience. Guess they cut it out on the combo.

Combo deals normally ship items OEM, thus eliminating some cost and important parts.  Like with the GPU I have, OEM, thus nothing is the box but the card.
One of the reasons I always try to buy Retail over OEM. :)
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Fulmar on February 17, 2009, 08:50:43 PM
Yeah, any OEM CPUs will be just the chips.  OEM HD's will be just the drive in anti-static packaging.  OEM Optical Drives are shipped the same way.  I've bought OEM and Retail CPU's before, never had any problems.  But you won't get a heatsink.  They can be cheaper, but it depends on the CPU.  Say an E8400, I can't find an OEM for less than $160, when retail they're $165.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Getback on February 17, 2009, 09:04:04 PM
Quote from: Fulmar on February 17, 2009, 08:50:43 PM
Yeah, any OEM CPUs will be just the chips.  OEM HD's will be just the drive in anti-static packaging.  OEM Optical Drives are shipped the same way.  I've bought OEM and Retail CPU's before, never had any problems.  But you won't get a heatsink.  They can be cheaper, but it depends on the CPU.  Say an E8400, I can't find an OEM for less than $160, when retail they're $165.

If you have a lightscribe dvd rom and order it OEM it doesn't come with the related software right? Or does it need the software or will programs like itunes have that built in?

Sorry for the mild hijacking.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Dragon on February 17, 2009, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: Getback on February 17, 2009, 09:04:04 PM
If you have a lightscribe dvd rom and order it OEM it doesn't come with the related software right? Or does it need the software or will programs like itunes have that built in?

Sorry for the mild hijacking.

Can you repeat the question, I'm confused.  A lightscribe dvd rom will come with a driver/software disc.  is ther such thing as an OEM dvd drive?
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: skribetm on February 17, 2009, 09:36:53 PM
you cant go wrong with an amd quad for transcoding and video editing.   =)
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: 1701E on February 17, 2009, 11:03:31 PM
Quote from: Dragon on February 17, 2009, 09:35:57 PM
Can you repeat the question, I'm confused.  A lightscribe dvd rom will come with a driver/software disc.  is ther such thing as an OEM dvd drive?

Yes there is such a thing as an OEM DVD Drive.

Quote from: Getback on February 17, 2009, 09:04:04 PM
If you have a lightscribe dvd rom and order it OEM it doesn't come with the related software right? Or does it need the software or will programs like itunes have that built in?

Sorry for the mild hijacking.

OEM will have no software that I know of.  However!  The software needed for Lightscribe is a download and not included in a Retail package anyways.  Lightscribe software is an optional thing and is easy to download/install, and does not require Itunes/Windows Media Player.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Getback on February 17, 2009, 11:07:49 PM
Quote from: Dragon on February 17, 2009, 09:35:57 PM
Can you repeat the question, I'm confused.  A lightscribe dvd rom will come with a driver/software disc.  is ther such thing as an OEM dvd drive?

Do you need software to use lightscribe? I think my DVD was OEM and no software came with it.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Fulmar on February 17, 2009, 11:51:38 PM
My Retail Asus DVD-RW w/ lightscribe came with Nero 8 which had an older version of Lightscribe software with it.  Lightscribe software is free and is available here:
http://www.lightscribe.com/downloadSection/windows/index.aspx?id=810
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on February 17, 2009, 11:53:31 PM
Quote from: 1701E on February 17, 2009, 11:03:31 PM
Yes there is such a thing as an OEM DVD Drive.

OEM will have no software that I know of.  However!  The software needed for Lightscribe is a download and not included in a Retail package anyways.  Lightscribe software is an optional thing and is easy to download/install, and does not require Itunes/Windows Media Player.

I think you are confusing cheaper bulk packaged and OEM licensed software. You can get bulk packaged hardware with retail pricing that come in a white box without any typical accessories and/or manuals. Then you can get cheaper OEM licensed software that are tied to a hardware purchase.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: 1701E on February 18, 2009, 12:00:50 AM
Quote from: MrRiplEy[H] on February 17, 2009, 11:53:31 PM
I think you are confusing cheaper bulk packaged and OEM licensed software. You can get bulk packaged hardware with retail pricing that come in a white box without any typical accessories and/or manuals. Then you can get cheaper OEM licensed software that are tied to a hardware purchase.
I go mostly by what I have found through the years.  The last OEM (Was listed as OEM on Newegg) DVD drive we got had the drive and a cable and no CD.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Getback on February 18, 2009, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: Fulmar on February 17, 2009, 11:51:38 PM
My Retail Asus DVD-RW w/ lightscribe came with Nero 8 which had an older version of Lightscribe software with it.  Lightscribe software is free and is available here:
http://www.lightscribe.com/downloadSection/windows/index.aspx?id=810

Thanks fulmar!
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Skuzzy on February 18, 2009, 09:52:47 AM
I would not use Nero any longer.  Nero 6 was about as good as it got.  The later versions do some insidious things to your computer which can impact other applications that want to use your burners.  I made the mistake of installing Nero 9 and it screwed up my Premier Pro and Vegas Pro applications so badly I had to re-install the operating system.  Keep in mind, Nero does have a tool you can use to completely remove thier application.

Whenever you see a company having to create a tool to remove thier software, you can bet they are doing things they should not be doing (i.e. replacing system files).

Imgburn (http://www.imgburn.com/) is a free burner tool which works better than any other commercial burner application I have ever used.  It is also very computer friendly.  I like it well enough I donate to the developer.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Fulmar on February 18, 2009, 10:16:17 AM
Quote from: Skuzzy on February 18, 2009, 09:52:47 AM
I would not use Nero any longer.  Nero 6 was about as good as it got.  The later versions do some insidious things to your computer which can impact other applications that want to use your burners.  I made the mistake of installing Nero 9 and it screwed up my Premier Pro and Vegas Pro applications so badly I had to re-install the operating system.  Keep in mind, Nero does have a tool you can use to completely remove thier application.

Whenever you see a company having to create a tool to remove thier software, you can bet they are doing things they should not be doing (i.e. replacing system files).

Imgburn (http://www.imgburn.com/) is a free burner tool which works better than any other commercial burner application I have ever used.  It is also very computer friendly.  I like it well enough I donate to the developer.
I threw the disk away before I threw the box away.  A +1 to ImgBurn, I found it a while ago and one of the best little burner programs I've ever used.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: skribetm on February 18, 2009, 10:24:46 AM
i use this thing. it's free too.

http://infrarecorder.org/ (http://infrarecorder.org/)
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Fulmar on February 18, 2009, 10:33:26 AM
Quote from: skribetm on February 18, 2009, 10:24:46 AM
i use this thing. it's free too.

http://infrarecorder.org/ (http://infrarecorder.org/)
I used infrarecorder for a while too, but IMO found ImgBurn to be better.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Skuzzy on February 18, 2009, 10:44:50 AM
Quote from: Fulmar on February 18, 2009, 10:33:26 AM
I used infrarecorder for a while too, but IMO found ImgBurn to be better.

Ditto.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Getback on February 18, 2009, 11:00:33 AM
Thanks folks. Imgburn it is. I'm really looking forward to trying it out.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Dragon on February 20, 2009, 08:20:29 AM
Another question.  I was looking over the board and noticed 1 EIDE connection.  Customer has 1 hard drive, 1 CD, and 1 DVD.  Can any of the above be plugged into a SATA with an adapter?
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: BaldEagl on February 20, 2009, 08:27:11 AM
Quote from: Dragon on February 20, 2009, 08:20:29 AM
Another question.  I was looking over the board and noticed 1 EIDE connection.  Customer has 1 hard drive, 1 CD, and 1 DVD.  Can any of the above be plugged into a SATA with an adapter?

You could get an IDE expansion PCI card or a USB/IDE external enclosre.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: skribetm on February 20, 2009, 09:58:38 AM
Quote from: Dragon on February 20, 2009, 08:20:29 AM
Another question.  I was looking over the board and noticed 1 EIDE connection.  Customer has 1 hard drive, 1 CD, and 1 DVD.  Can any of the above be plugged into a SATA with an adapter?

look at newegg, they have ide/sata adapters there too.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Dragon on February 20, 2009, 11:12:22 AM
Ordering 1 from Egg.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Fulmar on February 20, 2009, 05:11:42 PM
Quote from: Dragon on February 20, 2009, 11:12:22 AM
Ordering 1 from Egg.  Thanks.
Occasionally I've seen compatibility problems with some IDE to SATA converters.  Drives not being recognized etc.  Quality amongst these can vary greatly.  $10-$25+.  For $22, you can get a brand new DVD-RW drive, either IDE or SATA.  The new drives may be faster and they will be newer equipment.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Dragon on March 01, 2009, 05:37:57 PM
Finished build this morning.  Ended up with an Asus M2N72 MB due to a backorder on the one originally posted.  All went well, runs good, another happy customer.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: TilDeath on March 02, 2009, 01:02:25 AM
Quote from: 1701E on February 17, 2009, 11:03:31 PM
OEM will have no software that I know of.  However!  The software needed for Lightscribe is a download and not included in a Retail package anyways.  Lightscribe software is an optional thing and is easy to download/install, and does not require Itunes/Windows Media Player.
Both DandH and ASIpartner offer OEM Optical drives with software (Nero etc) and some have the lightscribe option within the software
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Getback on March 02, 2009, 02:25:06 AM
Quote from: TilDeath on March 02, 2009, 01:02:25 AM
Both DandH and ASIpartner offer OEM Optical drives with software (Nero etc) and some have the lightscribe option within the software

Never heard of those optical drives. I had to download even the drivers for my Samsung DVD drive. At first I thought it was a bad drive. However, I reinstalled after about a year sitting on my table thinking I may have not had it installed correctly. Then got the brilliant idea of checking for drivers on the samsung site and walla it worked.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Skuzzy on March 02, 2009, 06:52:42 AM
Quote from: skribetm on February 17, 2009, 09:36:53 PM
you cant go wrong with an amd quad for transcoding and video editing.   =)

The following are the times it took to run a standard HD encoding test.  All CPU's were at stock clocks.  The test clip has a runtime of 15 seconds.

AMD TL-60 510 seconds
AMD X2 5000+ 380 seconds
AMD FX-60 357 seconds
Intel E6300 313 seeconds
AMD Phenom 9850 194 seconds
Intel E8400 166 seconds
Intel Q6600 142 seconds
Intel Q6700 121 seconds
Intel Q9450 99 seconds
Intel i7 920 70 seconds
Intel i7 940 58 seconds

Anyone serious about videographer work does not consider AMD an option at all.  I am very familiar with that industry as I spend a lot of my free time working on videos.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Fulmar on March 02, 2009, 09:15:25 AM
Quote from: Skuzzy on March 02, 2009, 06:52:42 AM
The following are the times it took to run a standard HD encoding test.  All CPU's were at stock clocks.  The test clip has a runtime of 15 seconds.

AMD TL-60 510 seconds
AMD X2 5000+ 380 seconds
AMD FX-60 357 seconds
Intel E6300 313 seeconds
AMD Phenom 9850 194 seconds
Intel E8400 166 seconds
Intel Q6600 142 seconds
Intel Q6700 121 seconds
Intel Q9450 99 seconds
Intel i7 920 70 seconds
Intel i7 940 58 seconds

Anyone serious about videographer work does not consider AMD an option at all.  I am very familiar with that industry as I spend a lot of my free time working on videos.

For real, nobody who really does it for a living using AMD.  When Apple started using Intel chips, it was a big win for them in their graphic design market.  Much quicker over the IBM chips.  My first GD job out of college I was pretty disappointed that when they gave me a new computer, the IT department went budget.  An AMD chip with only 512mb of RAM.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: skribetm on March 02, 2009, 10:07:43 AM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3602/3323006776_d7dca6d385.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3591/3322175465_68423d81a7.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3614/3323006730_95af1c1c93.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3575/3322175433_5e44a0e85e.jpg)

NEWEGG PRICES 3/2/09

core i7x58 motherboards
920- $289 / 940- $560 / 965- $1,009asus p6t6- $369 / dfi jrx58-t3h6- $229
phenom2am2+ motherboards
940be- $229 / 920- $189asus m3a79-t $194 / dfi dk790fx-m2rs- $119

amd phenom2 940be(not even overclocked) doesn't look to shabby to me in anand's reviews. the total system cost really tips me to amd platforms when i consider price/performance, as it really highlights value. they were also using ddr2 on amd boards, not ddr3 memory, which would have affected the times by at least a few seconds. now i don't mind waiting a few more seconds to get an encoding job done, specially if it saves big $$$. also, am3 will bring in support for ddr3, and you wont have to change motherboards to do that, just a bios update and drop in the new chip. upgrading intel platforms would mean buying new motherboards, everytime.

Anand Tech Review (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3492&p=1)

now for peeps who have to have absolutely the best, i'd say go ahead and get the 965 for $1,000.00. but for me, i'd rather keep some of my money specially now that the stocks are waaaaay down to 1997 levels(isnt today 2009?). saving money for more rainy days right here!

on another note, an overclocked amd940be(3.64GHz) is just as good as an overclocked intel 920(3.8GHz) on my favorite benchmarks (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/overclock-phenom-ii,2119-8.html).

and have i told you how crazy these chips overclock?

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3626/3323108348_d8b3206c77.jpg)

but really, i just use my pc to play aces high 2. and it idles at 32c/25% load while doing so. i absolutely love this game and would like to donate my other kidney if need me for the new patch to come along!!!  :lol

by the way, ati radeon 4870's are getting a price drop soon!

4870 goes down to $149, 4850 to $129. (source (http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12330&Itemid=1)) (yes it's fudzilla!)

Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: skribetm on March 02, 2009, 11:26:38 AM
finally found this on my browser's history folder; benches with regards to encoding. i think this is why i said amd quads, although months behind production after intel's, offer better value. investing in intel core2 extremes six months ago would have meant paying big $$$, only to be equaled a few months later by a $229.00 cpu. upgrade paths on amd platforms also offer more value,as you wont have to upgrade mobo's. just drop in the cpu and it's a go.

a little oc would bring it to par with the intel c2 extremes.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3548/3322482993_45ac309418.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3599/3323316054_6e87d8a4a5.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3656/3322482973_6c1867eb80.jpg)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3558/3323316032_c2eebcf9b1.jpg)

"Overall though it looks like AMD has a solid product to compete with the mid-range Intel quad core chips. Unfortunately these are the fastest AMD chips and they still can't compete with Intel's higher-end models, but AMD's don't cost $1,000 a pop either. These new processors deliver affordable performance for AMD systems."

SOURCE: Extreme OC (http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/processors/AMD_Phenom_II_X4_940_920_1.html)



Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Skuzzy on March 02, 2009, 01:36:22 PM
Now you know why videographer professionals do not use benchmarks and do not trust some PC WEB site test-wannabe to make the decisions for them.

The numbers I quoted are from a professional videographer site.  The suite they have collectively developed is the standard for performance measurements in thier field.  It is comprised of real footage and uses real programs for encoding/decoding.  The CODECS are professional grade.  All the WEB sites you listed are using generic CODECS.  There is no way they would pay for the CODECS being used in the professional side of the industry.

These professional videographers will not take you seriously if you are using AMD.  For those who make a living at it, speed is everything.  They also have a "overclocked" comparison as well.  You do not want to know how bad it was for AMD in that list.  An $80 Intel Dual Core CPU blows away AMD's fastest quad core CPU.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: skribetm on March 02, 2009, 02:23:53 PM
you may be talking about codec optimization. in previous generations, dreamworks skg used proprietary software optimized for amd opterons (instead of intel's underperforming xeons). now that they have signed up with intel's nehalem/core i7, they have re-architected their software for optimation on intel platforms. sure intel has great processors, but for an $80.00 intel core2duo to blow out an amd phenom2 quad would really be a sight to see (and at what codec, too).

is the next patch in two weeks?  :pray i just want to play..
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: TheZohan on March 04, 2009, 10:45:17 AM
phenom II 940 is the way to go unless your gonna shell out money to own a I7. 

also the new AM3 chips are out and are cheaper then the Phenom II 940 but havent seen the benchmarks on those

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

is a list of the current benchmarks

with the phenom II you get

a quadcore at 3.0ghz that people are OCing to 3.5ghz + on air
fits most AM2+ boards 
uses DDR2 1066
about 500 less then owning a X58 + DDR3 memory
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Skuzzy on March 04, 2009, 11:05:31 AM
Using Flash to display charts?  I don't think so.  How gimmicky is that?  The fact that site requires Flash pretty much wrecks thier credibility with me.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Masherbrum on March 04, 2009, 11:08:28 AM
Quote from: TheZohan on March 04, 2009, 10:45:17 AM
phenom II 940 is the way to go unless your gonna shell out money to own a I7. 

also the new AM3 chips are out and are cheaper then the Phenom II 940 but havent seen the benchmarks on those

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

is a list of the current benchmarks

with the phenom II you get

a quadcore at 3.0ghz that people are OCing to 3.5ghz + on air
fits most AM2+ boards 
uses DDR2 1066
about 500 less then owning a X58 + DDR3 memory

This is the third thread so far with this statement.   Intel is better and SUPERIOR for Video Editing. 
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: TheZohan on March 04, 2009, 11:21:46 AM
i agree that intel is faster if you have the money to own it...

but if your said person is going into video editing, personally they should be using a workstation MB with Quadro/Fire Video cards
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Skuzzy on March 04, 2009, 11:47:56 AM
Videographers do not need workstation video cards.  Typically they need very little in video card.  They need fast CPU's (the more cores, the better) and a lot of fast RAM.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: TheZohan on March 04, 2009, 12:19:53 PM
that being the case a 8 Way AMD system blows away the core i7 system
and i would go with the Xeon class procesor instead if i was to go intel 

the xeon x5482, 5472 are both 50% faster then the i7

and a 8 way Opteron 8354 is almost 3 times as fast as the i7

and for graphics rendering .. a openGL card is better for that application
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Skuzzy on March 04, 2009, 12:27:35 PM
Not for video work it doesn't.

A 4 way Xenon system kills AMD for video work.  The AMD CPU's implementation of the SSE instruction sets are just too slow.  A dual core E8400 just beats a Phemon 9850, for example, even though the Phenom has 2 more cores available.

AMD just cannot compete against Intel in that area of business, regardless of cost.

OpenGL cards are irrelevant.  Professional video applications use DirectShow for the video display work on a PC.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: TheZohan on March 04, 2009, 12:30:10 PM
yeah but the phenom 9850 sucks it is half the speed of a phenom II 940, anything not phenom II core is gonna suck

the E8400 is 164.99
the Phenom II 940 is 229.00
the phenom 9850 is  142.00

i couldnt find stats on the PII 940 but

in ciname 4D benchmarks the 9850 beat the the E8400 by almost 50 secs.
in studio 3D max the 9850 beat the E8400 by 13 secs

thought the i7's slaughter just about everything else

Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Skuzzy on March 04, 2009, 12:36:19 PM
I know, it was one of a few AMD CPU's listed in the professional videographers database.  They have a tendency to laugh at people who use AMD for video/audio work.

One of the threads in here has a short listing of some of the sample performance comparisons between AMD and Intel I drew from the database.

Silly me.  Here it is. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,258701.msg3221452.html#msg3221452)  If someone shows up and submits the test from a new Phenom, I will nab it.  So far, no one has submitted one.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: skribetm on March 04, 2009, 12:41:35 PM
Quote from: Skuzzy on March 04, 2009, 12:27:35 PM
The AMD CPU's implementation of the SSE instruction sets are just too slow. 

i was reading a few months ago about the sse pipelines for both cpu's where amd uses two, while intel's c2d series uses 4 pipelines. it's not just the large cache in c2d's that beat the older phenoms but also the sse clock cycles.

i'd have to disagree about cost, however.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Skuzzy on March 04, 2009, 12:48:42 PM
Zohan, Cinema 4D and 3D Studio Max have nothing to do with professional videography.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: TheZohan on March 04, 2009, 12:48:54 PM
thats where AMD has failed for sure. thats why the new Phenom II's are getting a second look .. the 6MBs of cache has made these Processors shine.. i know that the second half of 2009 there will be the 6 -core processors coming out.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Skuzzy on March 04, 2009, 12:57:44 PM
I would like to see AMD come up with something competitive in this area.  They need to stay alive, just to keep Intel in check.

This year should be interesting.
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: TheZohan on March 04, 2009, 01:02:26 PM
but again if i was soley going into video editing i would go with the Xeon Workstation rather then the i7 setup
Title: Re: Computer rebuild
Post by: Dragon on March 04, 2009, 03:02:37 PM
I wonder if this hijack will ever end.  They just keep going back and forth, back and forth, round and round and again and again.  :O  


Oh, sorry I got distracted, where was I again, oh yeah, this case was a dream to work in and with.  Very solid, came with 4 fans installed and all the lights worked and look quite cool.  The best part was both sides fold down on hinges for wonderful access.

 RAIDMAX SMILODON Extreme Black ATX-612WEBP 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Foldout MB Computer Case With 500W Power Supply - Retail 59.99