Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: daddog on February 18, 2009, 07:22:02 PM

Title: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: daddog on February 18, 2009, 07:22:02 PM
Would be very cool for events and I would think a fun new element for the MA if you added some rockets sites. :)

Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: Enker on February 18, 2009, 09:42:22 PM
I could just be a new alternative to the "bomb and bail" crowd....
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: HighTone on February 18, 2009, 09:44:41 PM
I would like to see the for the FSO and some of the special events. I don't quite know how they would fit them into the MA.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: shreck on February 18, 2009, 09:52:53 PM
Would be very cool for events and I would think a fun new element for the MA if you added some rockets sites. :)



Chase them down with a Tempest and give them the "wing flip"  :rock
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: phatzo on February 18, 2009, 10:27:20 PM
they could auto fly to the stats or hq so there would be a disadvantage to not chasing them down, make them worth heaps of perks too.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: Lusche on February 19, 2009, 12:47:09 AM
they could auto fly to the stats or hq so there would be a disadvantage to not chasing them down, make them worth heaps of perks too.

How do you chase down a V2? ;)

But I wouldn't worry about enemy V1 / V2 at all, as long as they are modeled at least barely in accordance with real world stats...
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: Ghosth on February 19, 2009, 06:23:39 AM
At one point the russian freebirds version of warbirds had the V1 rockets as a somewhat player controlled option.

You couldn't steer it like a plane, but what you could do was set the bearing 0 - 360 and the distance. When you pressed launch you were a bug riding on the outside of the V1 rocket with no controls but an awesome view. If you were good, you could get enough clues from map, and terrain features so that after 3 - 6 try's you'd have the bearing and distance down and they'd be dropping on enemy buildings.

Would love to see something like this added to AH. Ideally with a limiter, ie everyone gets to launch exactly 1 of these each day, you pick launch site, and target. Or, launch site's would be limited to 3 -5 rockets per hour. So they couldn't totally overwhelm defenses with a wave of 100 + rockets.

Plus it would be a great add on to FSO, and special events.

Especially if we had a couple of nice V1 & V2 launch sites to attack.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: moot on February 19, 2009, 07:10:49 AM
And I can't see any reason for this to be hard to model... I mean, it's just a rocket.. :)  Would be very cool in raids.. e.g. have the rocket launch site raid hit early while the rockets are being fueled, and light the whole thing up   :devil
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: Lusche on February 19, 2009, 07:21:04 AM
And I always thought weapon & plane performance should be modeled at least loosely related to reality...
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: moot on February 19, 2009, 07:26:59 AM
?
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: spacer on February 19, 2009, 07:31:17 AM
I think that Daddog said SITES, not the actual vehicle!   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: Lusche on February 19, 2009, 07:32:09 AM
?

V1 & V2 were strategic weapons with abysmal accuracy, barely able to hit an area of the size of Greater London. In game terms you would hope to hit a specific sector, even a factory would be far to small to have any realistic hope of hitting it.


This
You couldn't steer it like a plane, but what you could do was set the bearing 0 - 360 and the distance. When you pressed launch you were a bug riding on the outside of the V1 rocket with no controls but an awesome view. If you were good, you could get enough clues from map, and terrain features so that after 3 - 6 try's you'd have the bearing and distance down and they'd be dropping on enemy buildings.

would be  a pure fantasy weapon.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: moot on February 19, 2009, 07:32:35 AM
It'd still be pretty cool to have in the MA, e.g. triggered to shoot at opposing HQs when a country was pushed back to its own.  In scenarios it'd be perfect.
I think that Daddog said SITES, not the actual vehicle!   :rolleyes:
The point of rocket sites without the rockets would be?
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: spacer on February 19, 2009, 07:34:44 AM
Moot I don't know!  Maybe as a target to attack.  I was just pointing out what Dad typed!  Don't attack me for correcting a misreading by everyone else.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: moot on February 19, 2009, 07:47:43 AM
I attacked you?  Why do you think Daddog would suggest rocket sites without rockets?  I don't know how young you are.. But discriminating inquiry, eloquence and critical thought in any discussion should come to you as positive prospects, not negatives like shunning or condescension.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: NoBaddy on February 19, 2009, 08:07:53 AM
they could auto fly to the stats or hq so there would be a disadvantage to not chasing them down, make them worth heaps of perks too.

Oh my yes. They would automatically fly FROM the country in the bucket to hit the HQ's of the other 2 countries. This could be entertaining.  :devil


Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: waystin2 on February 19, 2009, 08:34:35 AM
I vote yes for addition.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: Ghosth on February 20, 2009, 06:35:16 AM
And just how many square miles was greater London back then?

Don't get me wrong, I was not asking for the way it has been done.
I was just saying that it had been done this way before.
I fully expect HTC would do it better.



V1 & V2 were strategic weapons with abysmal accuracy, barely able to hit an area of the size of Greater London. In game terms you would hope to hit a specific sector, even a factory would be far to small to have any realistic hope of hitting it.


This
would be  a pure fantasy weapon.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: Lusche on February 20, 2009, 07:36:27 AM
And just how many square miles was greater London back then?

Don't get me wrong, I was not asking for the way it has been done.
I was just saying that it had been done this way before.
I fully expect HTC would do it better.




The "Luftwaffe Handbook 1939-1945" states the V-1 accuracy as follows:

Range up to 210 km: 50% zone radius = 13km. That's a circle with a diameter of 16 miles, which only 50% of fired V-1 are expected to hit
Range up to 320 km: 50% zone radius = 20km
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: moot on February 20, 2009, 07:56:28 AM
It gives us something cool to shoot at, and is one more piece in the WWII immersion puzzle.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: opposum on February 20, 2009, 09:34:37 AM
I also vote yes for the rockets




Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: nipper on February 20, 2009, 09:57:30 AM
The "Luftwaffe Handbook 1939-1945" states the V-1 accuracy as follows:

Range up to 210 km: 50% zone radius = 13km. That's a circle with a diameter of 16 miles, which only 50% of fired V-1 are expected to hit
Range up to 320 km: 50% zone radius = 20km

When I was a lad they dug the remnants of one out of a field a couple of miles from my house and we lived 100 miles north of London.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: USCH on February 20, 2009, 11:24:39 AM
The "Luftwaffe Handbook 1939-1945" states the V-1 accuracy as follows:

Range up to 210 km: 50% zone radius = 13km. That's a circle with a diameter of 16 miles, which only 50% of fired V-1 are expected to hit
Range up to 320 km: 50% zone radius = 20km

Perk it! like the 262... and make it only launchable to the HQ...
so we get ride of bomber perks and use it on a rocket that has a 1 in 1,000,000 (or more) chance of hitting HQ
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: 442w30 on February 21, 2009, 12:39:53 PM
And just how many square miles was greater London back then?



At the beginning of the Blitz, greater London was 720 square miles. The largest city on earth when measured that way.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: moot on February 21, 2009, 12:41:46 PM
Daddog did you mean rocket sites with or without rockets?
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: nipper on February 21, 2009, 01:38:15 PM
At the beginning of the Blitz, greater London was 720 square miles. The largest city on earth when measured that way.

Strange, London's only 650 square miles or so now. Can't see how it would have shrunk.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: Nwbie on February 22, 2009, 01:59:06 PM
Oh my yes. They would automatically fly FROM the country in the bucket to hit the HQ's of the other 2 countries. This could be entertaining.  :devil




I aim a slap at the side of your head for insinuating reality should enter this discussion


Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: daddog on February 22, 2009, 01:59:44 PM
Sorry moot, Spacer, I did word that poorly, but I did mean rockets too. My bad.

Just to clear up what I was asking for, but first realize that my focus is always events. If I request something and it could be used in the MA, all the better. I do realize that HTC and most players look at most things from the MA perspective as it is the bread and butter. :)

I was asking for V1/V2 rockets and the sites. As NB mentioned and what I kinda envisioned was some occasional rocket launches to enemy HQ or other strat targets. I did not really picture anyone ‘flying’ them, but putting in some simple coordinates and letting them fly. I remember reading that most sites could not launch more than 10 a day so we could see about 1 every hour from a V site. Early V1’s had a speed around 380mph so they could be caught by some of our faster AC. V2 speeds not sure.

Just another element of play for the MA and certainly adding rockets sites with working rockets for our events would be a great addition for our later Euro war events. They (I can only imagine) would be easy to model and give players an additional element for air combat and strat targets in the Late War MA.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: moot on February 22, 2009, 03:10:44 PM
I think it'd be very cool.  Permanently aimed at the city, and at all strats in the HQ zone (HQ included) when the rockets' country is down to some arbitrary number of fields or something like that.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: NoBaddy on February 22, 2009, 04:39:00 PM
I aim a slap at the side of your head for insinuating reality should enter this discussion

...and I accept your slap and say....


"THANK YOU SIR!! MAY I HAVE ANOTHER?!"

 :devil

Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: shotgunneeley on February 23, 2009, 03:45:31 PM
OK, what if each zone base was capable of launching a V1/V2 rocket at any target within the rockets range. In my mind, the targeting system would be similar to that of the heavy cruiser in land mode. All you have to do is select the rocket from the hangar, click spot on the map to target it and press "H" to launch. I know that the V1/V2 was a wildly inaccurate weapon, but for the sake of the game and for it to have any usefulness, the rocket payload would have to be proportional to its inaccuracy. In other words, the more inaccurate the rocket the larger the destructive power of its warhead. On the other hand, the more accurate the rocket the smaller the destructive power of its warhead.

Like other posts have said before, this rocket would need to be heavily perked (probably from bomber or attack points) and if you launch it, your going along for the ride until the end of the flight. It doesn't count as a death to you, just a "you have landed successfully" when the flight is over and it costs you those perk points wether you hit your target or not.

Just remember, for the sake of the game and for it to be fair to both sides should a V1/V2 be included in the next update some compensations to realism would have to be made so the rocket can be defended against just as good as it can be used as an offensive weapon. Basically, AH is not World War III so there shouldn't be clouds of missiles that once they are launched there is no stopping them until they hit something.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: AWwrgwy on February 23, 2009, 06:17:03 PM
I know that the V1/V2 was a wildly inaccurate weapon, but for the sake of the game and for it to have any usefulness, the rocket payload would have to be proportional to its inaccuracy. In other words, the more inaccurate the rocket the larger the destructive power of its warhead. On the other hand, the more accurate the rocket the smaller the destructive power of its warhead.

Herein lies the problem.  The V1 and especially the V2 were neither accurate nor powerful, as has been previously stated.  So, for the sake of "game play" we should throw out historical accuracy in this case?


wrongway
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: moot on February 23, 2009, 07:40:05 PM
They can't be gamed into behaving any other way than they really did, which doesn't sound invulnerable. 480mph is something a large part of the planeset can manage.  If the sites are static (random sites popping up along the fixed strat/supply lines could be pretty cool), anyone can be at the right place.. and the right time would depend on how the rockets are implemented.
The targetting could be made by players, but what's the fun of twiddling dials? Unless you roll a 262 and manage to catch the rocket to watch the end of its flight, or HTC allows players to sit on the rocket, it's not going to be very appealing. A lot less than shooting them down, anyway.

What perk category would it be tied to?  It doesn't really add up.  It's better to have it as an automated (which it was IRL) mechanism when a country's pushed back to a certain point.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: shotgunneeley on February 23, 2009, 08:36:55 PM
OK I see what WrgWy and Moot are saying. But if it were automated and each country continuously put out waves of missiles like supply convoys, would AH not loose its focus as a "flight simulator"? Like I said before, having clouds of rockets would look like something out of a global thermalnuclear World War III scenario. Furthermore, if the V1/V2 rocket were to be brought into the game exactly how it was in 1945 (inaccurate, underpowered and a small payload) it would become more of a novelty that no one would use after the first week of service in AH.

However, AH is great because it sticks to realism just like it happened during the war, so as much as I'd like to see the V1/V2 I dont want to see AH become just another WWII game.

Oh, and for all the A-bomb guys out there we could compromise that when a V1/V2 rocket is detonated it emits an EMP field that disables any plane or vehicle within the immediate area!  :O (This is a joke, please don't blast me  :lol )
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: moot on February 24, 2009, 02:45:50 AM
So make them not continuous, make them match WWII reality. Inaccurate gyro guided rockets launched intermittently. Like, as I suggested, when a country's pushed back to (e.g.) it's last couple of bases around the HQ. Weapons of terror and desperation like in WWII.
Title: Re: V1 /V2 Rockets
Post by: chris3 on February 24, 2009, 03:24:53 AM
moin

why not this variant of v1 lounching? and arming like the cruiser fire control.
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cu chris3