Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: 5PointOh on February 19, 2009, 07:45:14 PM

Title: P-40D/E
Post by: 5PointOh on February 19, 2009, 07:45:14 PM
So some of you may know that I'm a little bit of a P-40 dweeb.  I go to meetings for it so its ok.  Anyway, I'm looking for some help.  I recently bought a USAAF P-40 pilots manual. In the last couple of pages the manual talks about two things that made me wonder if anyone else had more detailed information about.

Quoted from manual:
1)Six bombs may be carried externally, three below each wing.

I'm curious to what size bomb could be placed underneath the wing of P-40? And when can we get them? :)

Quoted from manual (Gunnery Equipment,P-40D only)
2) Two .50 caliber fixed machine guns are mounted in each wing panel, and fire clear of the prop arc. THey are charge by placing the control valves in the "ON" position. Should the electric hydraulic pump fail, pressure may be retained by use of the manual hand pump. Structural provisions are made for extrernal attachment of two 20mm cannon, one the bottom surface of each wing.

DOes anyone have any more info on P-40s with 20mm cannons and Hitech or Pyro, can I have a cannoned P-40! hehe

Graciously yours,
Coprhead   
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: Enker on February 19, 2009, 09:06:19 PM
I am going to guess that the bombs were very small...as in 50-100 lbers. I have no idea about cannons in the P-40, but I suspect that the external mounting would have caused some drag, which in turn lowered the top speed.
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: theNewB on February 19, 2009, 09:50:50 PM
Extra firepower for ground CAS missions perhaps?

Haven't stumbled onto a site with more info about those 20's

EDIT: Alright found a few sites that mention the 20s on the D model

Quote
The fuselage guns were deleted, and two 0.50-inch machine guns with new hydraulic chargers were installed in each wing. There were additional provisions in the wings for two 20-mm cannon, but these were never actually used.
and the link http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p40_7.html (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p40_7.html) and another http://www.pioneeraero.co.nz/p-40d_version.htm (http://www.pioneeraero.co.nz/p-40d_version.htm)

Not 100% sure but wasn't the D model fighter/bomber version? could explain why 20's would be involved and 6 20lb bombs under each wing



Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: Shifty on February 19, 2009, 10:35:44 PM
Basically the same info Newb found. The bombs  on the wings were 20 lbs. 500 lb centerline.

The P-40D introduced a new shorter nose design that was retained by all subsequent P-40s. The 1150 hp V-1710-39 engine had spur gear reduction that raised the thrust line by six inches, giving a completely different nose geometry. The overall length was reduced by six inches, the cross section of the fuselage was reduced, and the undercarriage was shortened. The radiator was increased in size and moved forward. Some 175 pounds of armor were added. The fuselage guns were deleted, and two 0.50-inch machine guns with new hydraulic chargers were installed in each wing. There were additional provisions in the wings for two 20-mm cannon, but these were never actually used. Shackles were added under the belly to accommodate a 51-gallon auxiliary fuel tank or a 500-pound bomb. Wing rack attachment points were provided for six 20-pound bombs. Gross weight of the D model was increased to 8670 pounds. The climb rate and ceiling consequently continued to remain poor.

Found the info here

http://www.p40warhawk.com/Variants/P-40D.htm
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: theNewB on February 19, 2009, 10:55:05 PM
heh love how I read one site head to the next and find the same overall paragraph but one tells me engine was blah blah, go to next site weight was increased by blah blah, head to the next one..rinse and repeat. Either way spent like 10mins reading the same things over again only to find a tid-bit more info each time. :P
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: 5PointOh on February 20, 2009, 05:29:30 AM
See that was my problem, all websites said the same thing. Cant seem to find much documentation that were used in combat or pictures showing them mounted.
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: Krusty on February 20, 2009, 04:00:11 PM
It was not ever used, period. I don't even think it was ever mocked up or even factory tested.

It was a design convention in all models pre-E.

Give up. Move on. This one's a dead horse.
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: 5PointOh on February 21, 2009, 03:16:54 PM
It was not ever used, period. I don't even think it was ever mocked up or even factory tested.

It was a design convention in all models pre-E.

Give up. Move on. This one's a dead horse.
Oh horay its the every wise Krusty, its was a question for those who might have an extra bit of info other than what I have. If I had asked for it in the game, I would have placed this thread in the "Wishlist" forum. But I sure you were bored and just needed to interject your "Give up. Move on. This one's a dead horse." mentality for a simple request for assistance in some information collection.
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: Serenity on February 22, 2009, 01:12:51 AM
Oh horay its the every wise Krusty, its was a question for those who might have an extra bit of info other than what I have. If I had asked for it in the game, I would have placed this thread in the "Wishlist" forum. But I sure you were bored and just needed to interject your "Give up. Move on. This one's a dead horse." mentality for a simple request for assistance in some information collection.

Hate to say it, but the quotes specifically say that it wasn't ever used so while my squaddie may have been a bit... abrasive in his wording, this was obviously never used.
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: trotter on February 22, 2009, 03:49:23 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: Krusty on February 22, 2009, 04:01:54 PM
The only thing "psychotic" (kudos for spelling such a large word properly! You must have looked it up) is your response and your pal 5pointoh's.

I was blunt and to the point. Every other frickin' post on the BBS has been to add 20mm cannons to some plane that NEVER used them, or SHOULD never have used them. It's overly repetitive, and 5pointoh's glee in shouting that the 20mms be added to the P-40E is just ...

(to be blunt once again)

retarded.

Wing bombs did not show up until later models. Most notably the M/N models come to mind. These were single mount points on each wing but larger size bombs, perhaps 100lbs or 250. I've only seen photos, I don't know what the weight of the bomb was.

Again, NOT something the P-40E used.

5pointoh can also request P-59s that fly at the speeds they were designed and intended to fly, but it doesn't mean they ever historically got anywhere near these specs (FYI so you don't have to look it up, the plane was a total flop, worthless compared to even prop planes of the time, but was intended/designed to be a jet fighter better than anything else)
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: 5PointOh on February 22, 2009, 06:03:14 PM
The only thing "psychotic" (kudos for spelling such a large word properly! You must have looked it up) is your response and your pal 5pointoh's.

I was blunt and to the point. Every other frickin' post on the BBS has been to add 20mm cannons to some plane that NEVER used them, or SHOULD never have used them. It's overly repetitive, and 5pointoh's glee in shouting that the 20mms be added to the P-40E is just ...

(to be blunt once again)

retarded.
Well oh wise Krusty, if you read the original post the 20mm was for the D model only.   Also assumed most people would figure out that the "hehe" part was meant as a joke.  I was looking for more detailed information on fitment or usage of either of the fore mentioned armourments on the D/E models.  I do not want any changes for the 40s (although a couple of extra bombs would be nice).  To be honest the  only thing I'd like to see for the P40 is an update to its graphic in game.  I would like to thank you for small bit of info you did spout off, and if possible could you direct me to the location of the picture of the P40 fitted with wing ords. All this post was ever about was a quest for extra knowledge. I am very appreciative to the gents that assisted in the extra info. 

Thanks,
Coprhead 
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: Serenity on February 22, 2009, 07:25:22 PM
Irrelevant. The OP raises two main points for discussion in his thread. They are:

"I'm curious to what size bomb could be placed underneath the wing of P-40? And when can we get them?"

"DOes anyone have any more info on P-40s with 20mm cannons and Hitech or Pyro, can I have a cannoned P-40! hehe "

Only half of each of these statements has anything to do with requesting anything to do with the game. The other half is just a request for information. There's absolutely no need for Krusty's psychotic pessimism in an information seeking thread.

To the contrary, it is completely relevant. He asked for info on P-40s equipped with 20mm cannons. Research quotes from others show that this was never equipped, therefore, there is no service information on it. While Krusty may have been rather abrasive in his post, the fact is, that there is no information to be found because it didn't exist.
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: GGhost on May 28, 2009, 11:35:32 PM
Here is some help from the 79th Fighter Group library. The 79th FG flew the P40F and L models during the African campaigns. They were the highest horsepower P40's. They had the Merlin / Packard built engines with a 1 stage supercharger. They carried some bombs.

Enjoy, this book gives allot of information on all the P40 models.

P40 History (http://79thfg.low-ping.com/user/59132/WWII%20-%20Planes/P40%20Curtiss/curtiss_p-40.pdf)

- GGhost
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: SmokinLoon on May 30, 2009, 08:31:46 AM
P40D/E???  While I very much enjoy the challenge of flying the P40x in AH2, the addition of the P40N would go along way in beathing new life into an aircraft that rides the shortbus in the world of online flight sims.

Give the P40B/E thier graphics update and add in a later war model (P40N) with both the 4 or 6 50cal gun packages and the different ord options.  Oh, but wait, since the P40x isnt a late war or uber plane like the Me262, Nik2, F6F5, or Typhoon, I doubt it will ever again see attention.  I hope I eat my words.   :aok
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: vonKrimm on June 08, 2009, 09:48:11 PM
Give the P40B/E thier graphics update and add in a later war model (P40N) with both the 4 or 6 50cal gun packages and the different ord options.  Oh, but wait, since the P40x isnt a late war or uber plane like the Me262, Nik2, F6F5, or Typhoon, I doubt it will ever again see attention.  I hope I eat my words.   :aok

F6F a LW uber plane?  F6F is available in MW, so it must be an uber-uber plane.  Why does my k/d ratio not reflect this uber-uberness in MW then?  :huh

<hi-jacked safely negotiated to an amicable ending>
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: swareiam on June 11, 2009, 02:06:31 PM
P40D/E???  While I very much enjoy the challenge of flying the P40x in AH2, the addition of the P40N would go along way in beathing new life into an aircraft that rides the shortbus in the world of online flight sims.

Give the P40B/E thier graphics update and add in a later war model (P40N) with both the 4 or 6 50cal gun packages and the different ord options.  Oh, but wait, since the P40x isnt a late war or uber plane like the Me262, Nik2, F6F5, or Typhoon, I doubt it will ever again see attention.  I hope I eat my words.   :aok

Loon,

I said the same thing until I did my homework and made a few forum post on the subject. The P-40N provides very little performance difference over the "E". I believe it was Krusty that pointed out that the "E" in this game has the best of both worlds. It mistakenly has the performance of the "N" or "L" with the long range of the "E". This was based on indicated climb & cruise speeds. So, adding any P-40 later than the "E" only gets you another fuselage and aircraft designation.

Really, all the "N" was was a striped down version of the Warhawk with two less 50 cals. and smaller fuel tanks that allowed for a cruise speed of 378 mph. Even after all of that it couldn't meet the performance of its contemporaries, i.e P-51, P-38 etc.

So, when my previous request was met with "You need to search the forums", I didn't resent the statement . I actually learned something new about my favorite mount in this game.

(http://www.far148.com/TOM06_Leestown%20Aviation%20Warhawk%20Inc%20P-40N%20Warhawk.jpg)

Cheers...

Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: GGhost on June 11, 2009, 03:13:25 PM
For some information about the P40 history. Information from Squadron  / Signal books - PDF format. (Need Acrobat reader)

Click Here >>>History of the P40 (http://79thfg.low-ping.com/user/59132/WWII%20-%20Planes/P40%20Curtiss/curtiss_p-40.pdf) <<< Click Here

The "F and the L" verisions has the Packard built Merlin engine - with the most speed and performance. And was also used in WWII battle.

 :salute
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: swareiam on June 11, 2009, 03:15:58 PM
So some of you may know that I'm a little bit of a P-40 dweeb.  I go to meetings for it so its ok.  Anyway, I'm looking for some help.  I recently bought a USAAF P-40 pilots manual. In the last couple of pages the manual talks about two things that made me wonder if anyone else had more detailed information about.

Quoted from manual:
1)Six bombs may be carried externally, three below each wing.

I'm curious to what size bomb could be placed underneath the wing of P-40? And when can we get them? :)

Quoted from manual (Gunnery Equipment,P-40D only)
2) Two .50 caliber fixed machine guns are mounted in each wing panel, and fire clear of the prop arc. THey are charge by placing the control valves in the "ON" position. Should the electric hydraulic pump fail, pressure may be retained by use of the manual hand pump. Structural provisions are made for extrernal attachment of two 20mm cannon, one the bottom surface of each wing.

DOes anyone have any more info on P-40s with 20mm cannons and Hitech or Pyro, can I have a cannoned P-40! hehe

Graciously yours,
Coprhead   

Coprhead,

Salute Sir, I believe our paths have crossed in the MA in opposing P-40s before, nice work... While I was doing some research for the Dawn of Battle. I stubbled across a picture of a bomb rack under a P-40 with the configuration that you read about. They were incendiary bombs. Try a google search on P-40 Warhawk Aces of the MTO. The picture is within the preview of the book. Cool stuff...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418MASY8V8L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click-to-search,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

 :salute
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 11, 2009, 05:38:34 PM
Loon,

I said the same thing until I did my homework and made a few forum post on the subject. The P-40N provides very little performance difference over the "E". I believe it was Krusty that pointed out that the "E" in this game has the best of both worlds. It mistakenly has the performance of the "N" or "L" with the long range of the "E". This was based on indicated climb & cruise speeds. So, adding any P-40 later than the "E" only gets you another fuselage and aircraft designation.

Really, all the "N" was was a striped down version of the Warhawk with two less 50 cals. and smaller fuel tanks that allowed for a cruise speed of 378 mph. Even after all of that it couldn't meet the performance of its contemporaries, i.e P-51, P-38 etc.

So, when my previous request was met with "You need to search the forums", I didn't resent the statement . I actually learned something new about my favorite mount in this game.

(http://www.far148.com/TOM06_Leestown%20Aviation%20Warhawk%20Inc%20P-40N%20Warhawk.jpg)

Cheers...



If they introduce the N, one could assume they'd fix they E (similar to the 109G-10 travesty perhaps?).  Hard to tell these day, I 'spose.   One of the fuel tanks was removed on the N, so the range was shorter vs the E, no doubt. 

 The N was faster at all altitudes vs the E and it also accelerated faster than the E.  Seeing as how it is not only had a more powerful motor, the frame was lighter, so could one gather that the N could turn tighter than the E as well???

Regarding the 4/.50 cal guns... the reading I've done from multiple sources say less than the first 1000 of them rolled off the production lines with only the 4 guns.  THe other 4000+ were produced with the 6/.50 cals and the earlier versions were "up-gunned" to the 6.  HTC could have both options available???
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: Krusty on June 12, 2009, 12:54:36 AM
Only the stripped down versions had a performance boost, as you say the "light" planes with 4 guns and lighter airframes.

However, many of the P-40Ns out there were needed for hitting ground targets, so they were strengthened, carried underwing/fuselage bombs, and had 6 guns back again, negating any real performance gains over previous versions.

It would be nice to get a "real" -E, something intermediate (F/L/M??) for ground pounding, and then a stripped down N speedster (when compared to the E that is), but that's just a general "P-40 wishlist"
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: swareiam on June 12, 2009, 12:16:57 PM
If they introduce the N, one could assume they'd fix they E (similar to the 109G-10 travesty perhaps?).  Hard to tell these day, I 'spose.   One of the fuel tanks was removed on the N, so the range was shorter vs the E, no doubt. 

 The N was faster at all altitudes vs the E and it also accelerated faster than the E.  Seeing as how it is not only had a more powerful motor, the frame was lighter, so could one gather that the N could turn tighter than the E as well???

Regarding the 4/.50 cal guns... the reading I've done from multiple sources say less than the first 1000 of them rolled off the production lines with only the 4 guns.  THe other 4000+ were produced with the 6/.50 cals and the earlier versions were "up-gunned" to the 6.  HTC could have both options available???

Well I have to say, that a P-40 with any better climb performance than the current "E" is a danger to my opponent. A few things a Warhawk pilot has to learn in this game is;

1. A P-40E is not going to runaway from most of the popular MA birds, that is a given. That almost requires you to keep a medium to low altitude. Just incase you need to make an NOE escape.
2. Two hundred thirty five rounds per gun means that you will learn how to use the plane as a dogfighter. Spray "N" Pray is not an option in a furball. Your gunnery skills will improve.
3. With time in bird you will come to realize that P-40E turns quite well.

So, with a hightened skill level, more aircraft performance in the "N" model (Climb and Excelleration) The Warhawk starts to enter an all new level of aggressiveness. Image that the P-40 feared and respected in the MA.

Yes, I would like to see the translation as well, lighter, faster and more horses = tighter turn radius and a rate of climb at about 2800 fpm.

I'm all for that, count me in...
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: swareiam on June 12, 2009, 12:21:15 PM
Only the stripped down versions had a performance boost, as you say the "light" planes with 4 guns and lighter airframes.

However, many of the P-40Ns out there were needed for hitting ground targets, so they were strengthened, carried underwing/fuselage bombs, and had 6 guns back again, negating any real performance gains over previous versions.

It would be nice to get a "real" -E, something intermediate (F/L/M??) for ground pounding, and then a stripped down N speedster (when compared to the E that is), but that's just a general "P-40 wishlist"

So, if all were properly and appropriately fixed and expanded we'd end up with the;

P-40B, "E", "L", and  "N"

How does that sound?
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: Widewing on June 12, 2009, 05:43:16 PM
So, if all were properly and appropriately fixed and expanded we'd end up with the;

P-40B, "E", "L", and  "N"

How does that sound?

Our P-40B isn't.... It displays P-40C performance. The B model was lighter and cleaner (lacking the external fuel tank shackles and plumbing). Our P-40E isn't.... It has WEP, the actual E model didn't have a "combat" power setting. Our E model closely resembles a P-40K.

So, there is some work to do to get the P-40s sorted out.


My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 12, 2009, 05:57:27 PM
Well I have to say, that a P-40 with any better climb performance than the current "E" is a danger to my opponent. A few things a Warhawk pilot has to learn in this game is;

1. A P-40E is not going to runaway from most of the popular MA birds, that is a given. That almost requires you to keep a medium to low altitude. Just incase you need to make an NOE escape.
2. Two hundred thirty five rounds per gun means that you will learn how to use the plane as a dogfighter. Spray "N" Pray is not an option in a furball. Your gunnery skills will improve.
3. With time in bird you will come to realize that P-40E turns quite well.

So, with a hightened skill level, more aircraft performance in the "N" model (Climb and Excelleration) The Warhawk starts to enter an all new level of aggressiveness. Image that the P-40 feared and respected in the MA.

Yes, I would like to see the translation as well, lighter, faster and more horses = tighter turn radius and a rate of climb at about 2800 fpm.

I'm all for that, count me in...

I like starting at 15,000ft in the P40E for dogfighting, it sprints average, turns well at high speeds (and good at low speeds, too.  1 notch flaps are a MUST), and can roll just as good or better than everything but the 190's and Spit16.  I'm not sure I've ever tried to "escape" in NOE form, though.  As stated, the guns have short belts and landing the hits is more important than other 6/.50 cal fighters.

It never fails though, I take up the 'ol Warhawk and the first fighter I see is usually a friggin Spit16, La7, George, or other such uber-noob fighter.  I enjoy taking on the P51's, though.  The ground is much more even in a dogfight.  Speed is obviously on the side of the pony... but all else is a much closer roll of the dice.   
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: froger on June 13, 2009, 03:19:16 PM
So some of you may know that I'm a little bit of a P-40 dweeb.  I go to meetings for it so its ok.  Anyway, I'm looking for some help.  I recently bought a USAAF P-40 pilots manual. In the last couple of pages the manual talks about two things that made me wonder if anyone else had more detailed information about.

Quoted from manual:
1)Six bombs may be carried externally, three below each wing.

I'm curious to what size bomb could be placed underneath the wing of P-40? And when can we get them? :)

Quoted from manual (Gunnery Equipment,P-40D only)
2) Two .50 caliber fixed machine guns are mounted in each wing panel, and fire clear of the prop arc. THey are charge by placing the control valves in the "ON" position. Should the electric hydraulic pump fail, pressure may be retained by use of the manual hand pump. Structural provisions are made for extrernal attachment of two 20mm cannon, one the bottom surface of each wing.

DOes anyone have any more info on P-40s with 20mm cannons and Hitech or Pyro, can I have a cannoned P-40! hehe

Graciously yours,
Coprhead   



<------P 40 dweeb

I want the one with the gondolla cannons please  :rock
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: AKP on June 14, 2009, 10:51:57 PM
Im sure this is posted somewhere on these forums... but this is where it belongs :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40t6ys8pgNo

And a perfect example of why you shouldnt full size your clipboard in flight...
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: Noir on June 15, 2009, 04:59:18 AM
Fear ? P40's ? LOOOL :)
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: AKP on June 15, 2009, 09:59:27 AM
Personally, I give pilots who fly the P40 a lot of respect... and I never underestimate them.  Yea, there are planes that are faster, can turn better, and have a couple more guns...  but in the right hands, a P40 can really ruin your day.
Title: Re: P-40D/E
Post by: 5PointOh on June 15, 2009, 12:43:43 PM
For me it's a blast flying the P-40.  Most don't respect the capabilites of the plane.  I find often its like flying a big target, personally I also think that flying the P-40 has improved my aiming, and SA. Im an arena full of Spits, 51s, and LAs it fun to be the underdog.

Redtail, I remember many P-40 vs P-40 engagements with you.  <S> Excellent time sir.  If I'm in a P-40 and I see another P-40 thats my target. Usually to only have an LA7 or Spit16 to also jump in. But I respect all that dare to take it up in a arena full of ENY 5 planes.