Aces High Bulletin Board

Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: FiLtH on February 23, 2009, 09:50:13 PM

Title: FSO medals
Post by: FiLtH on February 23, 2009, 09:50:13 PM: Seeing how Saxman and a few other squads do the medal thing,which I think is very cool, I was wondering if a standardized system of medals could be created for certain things. Individual most kills, most objects, squad most kills, most objects. Do a ribbon, add bronze stars to it, then to silver if 3 stars on a ribbon. Upgade to a higher medal if those are surpassed. Other medals like a DFC or air medals could be awarded for the stuff that happens during an event that sets folks apart for the above and beyond stuff.

To make it fair since some squads are bigger, and could get more kills as a norm, do a formula for kills per squad size. Say a 16 man squad got 16 kills, and a 6 man squad got 11, the smaller squad should be awarded the ribbon.

You could create a medals display for your avatar.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Delirium on February 23, 2009, 11:02:06 PM: If something like that is instituted you'll see far less cooperation and more score monkeys. If individual squads want to highlight their efforts and share their exploits with the rest of us, great, it will also give more publicity to the FSO event.

We have enough score monkeys in the MA already, thank you.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Saxman on February 23, 2009, 11:43:15 PM: I have to agree with Delirium on this. Let the squads do their things, let's not involve HTC.

Another thing is how do you decide which nations' medals to use? Base it on the US and everyone else will throw a fit. For that matter, base it on the USAAF and you'll have us Marine and Navy types up in arms (the game design is Euro-centric enough as it is :furious ).
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: 68falcon on February 24, 2009, 12:40:49 AM: Ummmm...No. for all the stated reasons and more
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: 33Vortex on February 24, 2009, 05:25:53 AM: Euro-centric game design? Interesting... :huh I mean, don't want to sound hostil, do you want more pacific content?

Anyway, no to standardised FSO medals. It would not make anyone happy.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Saxman on February 24, 2009, 07:37:23 AM: Quote from: 33Vortex on February 24, 2009, 05:25:53 AM
I mean, don't want to sound hostil, do you want more pacific content?

Look at the terrain objects and default textures we have to work with in the Mains. Pretty sure there weren't big red barns and windmills scattered across the South Pacific.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: apcampbell on February 24, 2009, 08:49:29 AM: I agree, medals and ribbons should be an individual squad's policy. Sax's awards severed as a basis for the 353rd's awards program. It's relatively easy to do, if you have the correct programs. (In our case, we us Word, Excel, SnagIt, and occasionally MS Paint)

Example:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3040/2829239458_aa94027be8.jpg?v=0)
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: VonMessa on February 24, 2009, 08:57:04 AM: No.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: 33Vortex on February 24, 2009, 09:35:05 AM: Quote from: Saxman on February 24, 2009, 07:37:23 AM
Look at the terrain objects and default textures we have to work with in the Mains. Pretty sure there weren't big red barns and windmills scattered across the South Pacific.

:lol

Good point, and I completely agree!
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: captain1ma on February 24, 2009, 10:56:35 AM: i think you should have medals! :)
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: texastc316 on February 24, 2009, 01:46:52 PM: i lke the idea, but on a squad basis. I actually have been wanting to talk to saxman for tips on how to do it. I love how his squad does it. Classy.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: apcampbell on February 24, 2009, 04:08:28 PM: Tex, if Sax can't help, I can provide you what we have
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Saxman on February 24, 2009, 04:48:26 PM: Tex,

Do you mean as far as the graphical look, or how we issue them?
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: texastc316 on February 25, 2009, 12:27:09 AM: Quote from: Saxman on February 24, 2009, 04:48:26 PM
Tex,

Do you mean as far as the graphical look, or how we issue them?

Well all of it. Just saw a post you did a while back publicly handing out a medal and i thought it was cool. we have alot of new guys in our squad, and it seems like something to work for. Something we can put on our little website. Ive done a few searches on USAAF medals, looking at them, seeing what the qualifications are. We ve earned alot of purple hearts and western unions to our mothers lately. Ill hit you up after I get back home and flying, when me and the wife get outta the hospital. Have a newborn and not sure how much flying time Ill get at first. I may only have time to hang out on the forums lol. :salute
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: texastc316 on February 25, 2009, 12:28:14 AM: Quote from: apcampbell on February 24, 2009, 08:49:29 AM
I agree, medals and ribbons should be an individual squad's policy. Sax's awards severed as a basis for the 353rd's awards program. It's relatively easy to do, if you have the correct programs. (In our case, we us Word, Excel, SnagIt, and occasionally MS Paint)

Example:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3040/2829239458_aa94027be8.jpg?v=0)
that is seksie, strong work there :salute
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Stampf on February 25, 2009, 08:17:18 AM: I say Awards should generally be left up to the Squadrons.

The only unofficial one needed, we already have:

The Grand Order of the Kracken!

(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8678/kracken.jpg)
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: ImADot on February 25, 2009, 09:03:57 AM: My MA squad doesn't issue medals and such, but it might be nice for FSO. But, instead of arbitrarily handing out citations based on objects/planes killed, perhaps squad CO's or frame CiC's could nominate someone based on performance and the CM team could vote on who should receive it.

Citations and medals don't have to be based on real life ones, someone could create Aces High "branded" ones so people don't complain about earning a German medal or a US medal, etc.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Nefarious on February 25, 2009, 09:22:10 AM: Quote from: Stampf on February 25, 2009, 08:17:18 AM
The only unofficial one needed, we already have:

The Grand Order of the Kracken!

(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8678/kracken.jpg)

:rofl
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: 33Vortex on February 25, 2009, 10:32:54 AM: Great avatar Nefarious! :aok
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: apcampbell on February 25, 2009, 10:41:10 AM: We had that issue when creating our own SOP. Using real awards as the basis, we had some long discussions trying to balance the spirt of the actual award to the virtual environment of AH2. It's very hard to quantify some awards because of this. And then, some awards we felt were inappropriate to give because of what they represent in real life to the awardees and their families (such as the Purple Heart and MoH).

What we ended up with was that certain Medals were awarded for FSO performance, and a select few ribbons that were awarded in other areas (like the Battle of Britain and Battle of Aces Ribbons)

It works our rather well and the guys in the squad enjoy the "cabbage" on their virtual uniforms.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Saxman on February 25, 2009, 12:07:03 PM: The closest we could get to Purple Heart was to award it to a pilot who records a SUCCESSFUL landing at an airfield while PW'ed. So far we've only issued one.

CMH is going to be virtually impossible to find something within the game that adequately reflects it.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: 33Vortex on February 25, 2009, 12:35:23 PM: CMH could be awarded in a similar fashion to the Ritterkreuz, that is, after a long and proven record of successfully destroying enemy fighters. A FSO record would let a squad track each member's progress and achievements. That's how JG11 (http://www.sonderstaffel.org/killboard.html/) do it.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Saxman on February 25, 2009, 12:45:00 PM: We track our score as well. I'd hate to degrade the CMH to an indicator of kills, tho.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: 33Vortex on February 25, 2009, 01:55:32 PM: Well the problem is there's only one degree of CMH right? There are no variations to it, and don't belittle a feat such as 250 aerial victories.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Halo46 on February 25, 2009, 02:27:06 PM: Quote from: Saxman on February 25, 2009, 12:45:00 PM
We track our score as well. I'd hate to degrade the CMH to an indicator of kills, tho.

I respectfully disagree with your position. There is nothing degrading about using it in that manner. Pilots earned the CMH for shooting down enemy aircraft. If you take that course of action, then using any award for the purposes of this game is degrading. It is the spirit to which you use it that is important in my opinion. If you choose not to use it, so be it, but to say it is degrading is a little over the top. I would have to say the Purple Heart is a much more dear award that might be degraded by use in a game as if you actually injured yourself playing, it was your own darn fault. :D

I take it that most squads which incorporate an awards system based on actual awards do it for immersion and out of respect for those who earn them. As long as an award is made for merit, I fail to see any reason to reject it out of hand. I do not object to someone who plays the game faithfully and who does not disgrace his squad from earning a commendation medal, though I, possibly you, and many others spent the time earning one in real life. I am certainly no hero, but it is in the same vein that we are discussing. It is up to the squad to maintain the spirit of an award system. Done respectfully, I think it is appropriate.

Many men have been awarded the medal based on the large numbers of enemies they dispatched. York and Murphy come to mind, and many others. Here is just 1 instance of number of aircraft being shot down being included in a citation, maybe not the best example, but one none the less:

BONG, RICHARD I. (Air Mission)

Rank and organization: Major, U.S. Army Air Corps. Place and date: Over Borneo and Leyte, 10 October to 15 November 1944. Entered service at: Poplar, Wis. Birth: Poplar, Wis. G.O. No.: 90, 8 December 1944. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action above and beyond the call of duty in the Southwest Pacific area from 10 October to 15 November 1944. Though assigned to duty as gunnery instructor and neither required nor expected to perform combat duty, Maj. Bong voluntarily and at his own urgent request engaged in repeated combat missions, including unusually hazardous sorties over Balikpapan, Borneo, and in the Leyte area of the Philippines. His aggressiveness and daring resulted in his shooting down 8 enemy airplanes during this period.

When it comes down to it, I feel a well thought out, merit based awards system is a great tool for adding a measure of immersion and gratitude for those you fly with. Remembering that real people are out there earning these same awards keep them in our minds and hopefully our hearts, regardless of the country of origin. Thanks.

Regards,
Hobo
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Saxman on February 25, 2009, 02:31:48 PM: We do utilize victories as a requirement for some decorations (we have a full breakdown on the squad's Decorations page).

Still, there's something sacred about the CMH that makes me reluctant to utilize it.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: 33Vortex on February 25, 2009, 02:36:38 PM: Is it the medal that honor the man or the man that honor the medal?
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Kuhn on February 25, 2009, 04:28:49 PM: The heck with medals, I want a promotion!! :D
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: FiLtH on February 25, 2009, 04:33:27 PM: LOL Stampf!

LOVE IT!

I see everyones point on the awards thing. I do like how we got a ribbon from another squad, I thought that was real nice. As far as the ribbons I had in mind I have made a handful of homemade medals for various things AH related and was leaning in that direction rather that official medals or ribbons. I think I'll talk to the Mares and see if we could put together our squad ribbon we would present to a squad we felt deserved it.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: lowZX14 on February 26, 2009, 08:52:05 AM: Quote from: Kuhn on February 25, 2009, 04:28:49 PM
The heck with medals, I want a promotion!! :D
Nope, I've got it from a good source that you're stuck peeling taters.
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: haasehole on February 26, 2009, 09:59:34 AM: A while ago I thought I saw something about FSO patch's ? I think medal/ribbons should be left up to the squads to take care of. :salute the JG II fellars really got their medals/ribbon stuff tight :salute
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Stampf on February 26, 2009, 10:16:45 AM: Thanks haase. :salute

Alot of work went into our programs. Mostly designed by 'Hammer' and 'Hobo'. Both US Vets. Also Hammer spent many hours removing the political symbology from our Awards, and created some really beautiful medals and ribbons for us. The guys enjoy the programs, which we use not as a chain of kommand but rather as recognition, and immersion aides. Hobo has done, imo, a bang up job on our website, and the tracking and updating that goes on to maintain these programs real time, is considerable.

www.sonderstaffel.org
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Stampf on February 28, 2009, 03:19:15 PM: I'd like to recognise two good friends and a pair of JG11's finest.

Frame 3 -August Storm Awards

By Order of Ober Kommando der Luftwaffe:

(http://www.sonderstaffel.org/Sonderstaffel/awards/kvks-kc.gif) - Ritterkreuz des Kriegsverdienstkreuz mit Schwerter - Awarded to pilots after they have scored 30 aerial victories in FSO. - Oberfeldwebel 'Frodo'.

(http://www.sonderstaffel.org/Sonderstaffel/awards/kvks-kc-ol.gif) - Ritterkreuz des Kriegsverdienstkreuz mit Schwerter mit Eichenlaub - Awarded to pilots after they have scored 50 aerial victories in FSO. - Major 'TheBug'.

(http://www.sonderstaffel.org/Sonderstaffel/awards/ribbon-highfso.gif) - Ehrenblatt Spange des III Gruppe - Awarded for the highest JG11 score in an FSO Campaign. - Major 'TheBug'.

Congratulations Gentlemen. :salute
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Odee on February 28, 2009, 04:24:38 PM: It's not a bad idea for a Squad to do something of this sort "In House". That is something they should discuss amongst their squad mates.

But to ask HTC or the CM's to implement it? Naw, I don't think that'd be very smart, for reasons already stated way above.
:salute
Title: Re: FSO medals
Post by: Fencer51 on March 01, 2009, 03:34:11 PM: We also do medals, Hammer has spend alot of time working them up and we update them at the end of every MA tour and FSO tour.

We started doing Campaign Ribbons for the FSOs..

Anyone is free to use them..

Bougainville: (http://www.51hangar.net/FSO/Bougainville_CM.jpg)

August Storm: (http://www.51hangar.net/FSO/AugustStorm_CM.jpg)