Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Jochen on July 20, 2001, 03:37:00 PM

Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Jochen on July 20, 2001, 03:37:00 PM
Took these photos today, more to come soon:

   (http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/jannousiainen/galleries/storage/nice_try_smarty_pants_01.jpg)  

   (http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/jannousiainen/galleries/storage/nice_try_smarty_pants_02.jpg)  

   (http://sivut.koti.soon.fi/jannousiainen/galleries/storage/nice_try_smarty_pants_03.jpg)  

Tony Williams can't attend...

[ 07-20-2001: Message edited by: Jochen ]
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: funkedup on July 20, 2001, 03:46:00 PM
Looks like a poorly designed aerodynamic shape of some sort.  Would probably tumble and have low velocity and a lot of drop.
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Fatty on July 20, 2001, 03:47:00 PM
Heh Funked, the latter two do look somewhat familiar after seeing Pyro's lineup photo.
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Westy MOL on July 20, 2001, 03:48:00 PM
Great

BIG

Nipples!!
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Jochen on July 20, 2001, 03:59:00 PM
Quote
Looks like a poorly designed aerodynamic shape of some sort. Would probably tumble and have low velocity and a lot of drop.

Well, atleast they are bit more advanced technology than solid steel slugs one nation was able to produce.
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Nashwan on July 20, 2001, 04:17:00 PM
Which nation was that?
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Jigster on July 20, 2001, 04:36:00 PM
Have you ever seen the normal Hispano HE shell? The dang thing looks like an egg! It has two sealeants, the compression ring, and where the shell flares out towards the tip, but it makes for a very odd shape, even with a fuse larger than the MG 121/20.


Btw the British did make some, but they never did like HE rounds...something jaded them early, and it tended to come back and haunt them  :D Let alone anything like the M-G rounds.
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Tac on July 20, 2001, 04:44:00 PM
Fatty's daily Vitamin Dweeb supositories?
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Fatty on July 20, 2001, 04:45:00 PM
Complete with fuse to smoke out any leftover hamsters.
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Nashwan on July 20, 2001, 04:52:00 PM
If the British didn't like HE rounds, why did the RAF standardise on a 50/50 mix of HE/I and SAP/I?
The HE/I/T rounds designed for the Hispano by the original French manufacturers were poor, detonating either at the surface of the target or, worse still, just after leaving the gun.
The replacement rounds designed by the British were found satisfactory by the RAF, in tests they always penetrated the target before exploding, unlike German mine shells.
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Wmaker on July 21, 2001, 05:47:00 AM
It's a Mauser MG 151/20 Minegeschoss round without the gardridge.

--------------

1Wmaker1
   (http://koti.mbnet.fi/~paulusk/Lelv34.jpg)

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: Wmaker ]
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Jochen on July 21, 2001, 06:21:00 AM
Correctmundo Widowmaker. Do you happen to have any (cutout)drawings about the fuze or the round in general?
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Nashwan on July 21, 2001, 07:03:00 AM
Tony Williams (I am suprised he hasn't posted in this thread) has a photo of various sectioned rounds at his website. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/ (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/)
for the main page
 http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/webimgs/WW2aircart.JPG (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/webimgs/WW2aircart.JPG)
for the photo of the rounds themselves
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: brady on July 21, 2001, 07:05:00 AM
look for TM-1985-( 1 or 2 I think), I have Japanese series of these and this book will have the cutaway you want, i have seen theam in it just dont own the German Volume  :(

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: brady ]
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Wmaker on July 21, 2001, 03:15:00 PM
Here ya go jochen   :).

  (http://koti.mbnet.fi/~paulusk/151minegr.jpg)  

BTW, where on earth did you get 'em?!? Me want!!  :D

-----------------

1Wmaker1
  (http://koti.mbnet.fi/~paulusk/Lelv34.jpg)

[ 07-21-2001: Message edited by: Wmaker ]
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Jochen on July 21, 2001, 03:56:00 PM
Thanks wmaker! Looks like my fuzes are missing the actual explosive chamber but I guess that is understandable...

I paid 20$ + toll for MG 151/20 M round and casing, delivery took few months because of little trouble with new addres... if you are interested getting one, send me e-mail and I might be able to help!  :)
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: mauser on July 22, 2001, 04:23:00 AM
Here's mine.. unfortunately I don't think the fuze will come off.  Jochen, are the walls of the shell really thin?  

 

  (http://www.pixi.com/~brlau/20.jpg)  

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: mauser ]

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: mauser ]
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Nashwan on July 22, 2001, 05:18:00 AM
Here's the picture I posted the link to earlier. It shows exactly how thin the walls are
 (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/webimgs/WW2aircart.JPG)
The picture comes from Tony Williams website at http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/ (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/)
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Jochen on July 23, 2001, 04:04:00 AM
Mauser, the fuze can be unscrewed so you can see what is inside, usually nothing. It might be bit tight if it has been unopened for 50 years but it definitely should be openable unless it has been welded close which I doubt.

You round too is Minengeschoss with thin walls, it can be recocgnized by the round bottom.

I am also hopefully getting MG 151/20 AP round, MG FF AP round and MG 151 HE round soon  :)
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: mauser on July 23, 2001, 11:43:00 PM
Thanks Jochen.. I was able to unscrew the fuze and lift it off.  I guess I didn't try when I first received it because I was affraid of crushing the shell walls (that's why I asked how thin they really were).  But no worries, the walls aren't THAT thin.  
Cool that you're getting the other shells, I'm satisfied with just one mine shell.  


Btw, I was wondering, with all the fuss over how things are modelled here and all, does anyone have access to what I'd call design specs?  In other words, what requirements were given to the manufacturer/engineer in order to come up with the design of the MG151 and it's rounds?  What tradeoffs were made for what reasons, etc.  Not because I want to whine, but b/c I'm curious as an engineer.  


mauser

[ 07-23-2001: Message edited by: mauser ]
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Vermillion on July 27, 2001, 09:10:00 AM
Brady, email me your address again plz.  I lost my HD a while back, and I'm still recovering.
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Jochen on July 30, 2001, 02:25:00 AM
I have already made net page for photos about rounds I have, hopefully I have time to take the photos today and put them on the net.

I also found a net site that has explanations about codes found in fuzes, primers, cases and rounds. Quite interesting to find out where the rounds have been made  :)
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: mauser on July 30, 2001, 02:57:00 AM
That would be great Jochen! Would love to see the codes on the base interpreted.  Looking forward to seeing your collection too.

mauser
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Nashwan on July 30, 2001, 06:11:00 AM
Jochen, can you give a link to the site that lists the codes on the shells, fuzes etc?
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Jochen on July 30, 2001, 08:18:00 AM
Quote
Jochen, can you give a link to the site that lists the codes on the shells, fuzes etc?

 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/1325/ordcodes.txt (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/1325/ordcodes.txt)

This is not the list I used (the link is on my home computer) and seems like it is not as complete.

There is a book about these codes and it has over 800 pages! The net versions naturally do not have all that information, only the most interesting ones.
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Jochen on July 30, 2001, 08:20:00 AM
Oh, if you are looking info about allied ordnance you will disapoint, those codes at the site were used on german ordnance only.
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Nashwan on July 30, 2001, 11:17:00 AM
Thanks Jochen.
I am after the details for 2 shells marked
eey 10d 40 (yellow)
and
eey 6e 40 (yellow with blue band)
The shells were used in a test report, and I am trying to work out the exact details of their fusing. I presume the 40 refers to year of manufacture, and your link tells me eey is place of meanufacture. Do you have any idea what 10d and 6e mean?
Title: What the shreck are these!?!?
Post by: Jochen on July 30, 2001, 11:33:00 AM
eey means that the component has been built by Metallwarenfabrik Treuenbrietzen GmbH, Roederhof plant. Was that text in base of case or in actual projectile?

40 quite propably means year as you said.

10d and 6e might be lot numbers but I am not sure, they do not seem like standard codes which do not mix letters and numbers together.

I think only way to know what fusing they used is to inspect the fuze itself, it has similar markings stamped. If you look photo of fuze in top of the page you can see it has some markings saying:

ZZ 1505A | efc | 378 | 44 |

Which reads out somethin like:

Fuze type | manufacturer | lot or other numer | year.