Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Cajunn on March 07, 2009, 12:27:34 AM
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Are we getting a WW1 arena, or was it just a survey?
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2 weeks.
:D
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It was just a cruel, horrible joke.
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It was just a cruel, horrible joke.
(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Sad/sad-049.gif)
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Yeah yeah, and I'm sure you're playing me a sad song on the worlds smallest Violin. :P
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:lol
No really, it expressed my own feelings.
Don't say it's just been a joke, don't say it again...
I'm a very sensitive little slug hoping for an Airco D.H. 2
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:lol
No really, it expressed my own feelings.
Don't say it's just been a joke, don't say it again...
I'm a very sensitive little slug hoping for an Airco D.H. 2
Sorry mate.. It's a joke :(
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(http://www.avatarcorner.com/data/media/93/Suicide.gif)
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I needs me my Albatros D.III.
Oddly enough, the German needs a Brit plane, and the Yank needs a German one. :confused:
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I'm a very sensitive little slug hoping for an Airco D.H. 2
Little? You're like 7 feet tall. ;)
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(http://www.avatarcorner.com/data/media/93/Suicide.gif)
LOLOL! I like that
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(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/WWhiskey/Dogfight-1.gif)
(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l370/stumbledupon/snoopdown.gif)
:noid :noid :noid
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W.W. I planes do not pass the criteria of: "Will it revolutionise the Main Arena"? .....so any attempt to provide this will be yelled down by the masses who only want 1945 airplanes .....sad aint it?
Helm ...out
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W.W. I planes do not pass the criteria of: "Will it revolutionise the Main Arena"? .....so any attempt to provide this will be yelled down by the masses who only want 1945 airplanes .....sad aint it?
Helm ...out
Maybe, but it will revolutionalize the "Early War" arena
:rofl
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I'd just love the see the "Perk the 2-gun Eindecker!" whines. :cool:
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Little? You're like 7 feet tall. ;)
:lol
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I want my S.E. 5.........
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Yes.
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I needs me my Albatros D.III.
Oddly enough, the German needs a Brit plane, and the Yank needs a German one. :confused:
Back in the Amiga days, I would come home after college or a date and stay up (way too late) to play this one game that was a ww1 fighter game. Was a blast. I always looked forward to becoming a full fledged adult (cough) and being able to afford a uber system that I envisioned would be available it today's day and age, to play uber flight sims. I think had I known that all we would have by now would be AH2, I would have probably been like.....eh?.........
Don't get me wrong, AH2 placed in front of me back then and I would have never left the house for about 3 months straight, but I think everyone expected more from game producers by now.
BUMP for a ww1 sim! :)
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fokker dr1 for me please
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There was a WWI arena in Air Warrior. It was always almost empty. I didn't like WWI. The problem is that you have no forward-up view. To get a taste for what it's like, map your forward-up view keys (or hat or whatever you use) to straight down (so you are looking at your cockpit floor -- i.e., no view). Then go try some stallfights, where your most-used view is forward-up. That's what it's like.
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There was a WWI arena in Air Warrior. It was always almost empty. I didn't like WWI. The problem is that you have no forward-up view. To get a taste for what it's like, map your forward-up view keys (or hat or whatever you use) to straight down (so you are looking at your cockpit floor -- i.e., no view). Then go try some stallfights, where your most-used view is forward-up. That's what it's like.
???? did you ever fly DoA Brooke? I mean back before IEN ruined it. It was a GREAT time and I don't recall having any "view" problems at all. I loved DoA and if Dale recreated it here I would be in that arena all the time.
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:aok I think an WWI arena would be kewl, but, I think maybe a Korean War arena should be added as well. You can have the perked rides such as the F-86 Sabre and the Mig 15's, 17's. Basic prop driven like the p-39's, P-51's, A-1 Skyraiders, etc. May be worth thinking about? :huh
:salute A8Chewey
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:lol
No really, it expressed my own feelings.
Don't say it's just been a joke, don't say it again...
I'm a very sensitive little slug hoping for an Airco D.H. 2
I just got done reading Wm Burrows book on Richthofen, the huns use to call the DH2 the spinning incinerator. But put an angry gastropod behind the controls and i guarentee you could re write history. :D
Good book btw, get it if you get a chance
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Fokker D.VII please :D
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:aok I think an WWI arena would be kewl, but, I think maybe a Korean War arena should be added as well. You can have the perked rides such as the F-86 Sabre and the Mig 15's, 17's. Basic prop driven like the p-39's, P-51's, A-1 Skyraiders, etc. May be worth thinking about? :huh
:salute A8Chewey
Air Warrior had a Korean War arena as well. It hardly ever had anyone in it. The problem there was that it takes forever (by WWII standards) to do a 360 degree turn in an F-86 or Mig 15. Dogfights end up being glacial by WWII standards, and most of your shooting is at 1000 yards.
HiTech and Pyro flew a lot in Air Warrior. They might have the same opinion -- that WWI and Korean War arenas would have almost no players in them. For the same effort of making those arenas, they could do more in the Main Arena, which is the most-imporant and most-popular part of Aces High. Much more bang for the buck.
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Air Warrior had a Korean War arena as well. It hardly ever had anyone in it. The problem there was that it takes forever (by WWII standards) to do a 360 degree turn in an F-86 or Mig 15. Dogfights end up being glacial by WWII standards, and most of your shooting is at 1000 yards.
HiTech and Pyro flew a lot in Air Warrior. They might have the same opinion -- that WWI and Korean War arenas would have almost no players in them. For the same effort of making those arenas, they could do more in the Main Arena, which is the most-imporant and most-popular part of Aces High. Much more bang for the buck.
I doubt that AW would be the experience they would rely on since they have their own demographics from Dawn of Aces which Dale et al created to draw from. Korea is another kettle of fish and suspect would be quite abit harder to put together.
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fokker dr1 for me please
You mean the spitfire of WWI?* The D. VII was the Pony of WWI*. The S.E. 5 was the Yak of WWI, as it was a beautiful plane in it's element*.
*(according to my past experiences in Red Baron 3D)
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Air Warrior had a Korean War arena as well. It hardly ever had anyone in it. The problem there was that it takes forever (by WWII standards) to do a 360 degree turn in an F-86 or Mig 15. Dogfights end up being glacial by WWII standards, and most of your shooting is at 1000 yards.
HiTech and Pyro flew a lot in Air Warrior. They might have the same opinion -- that WWI and Korean War arenas would have almost no players in them. For the same effort of making those arenas, they could do more in the Main Arena, which is the most-imporant and most-popular part of Aces High. Much more bang for the buck.
:huh Ahhh.... I see Brooke, I never had the chance to play AW. I can totally understand what your saying about the dogfights in the jets, would be a lot of work to put together those kinds of arenas and have very little use of them. :aok Just sounded kinda kewl. Thanks for your input. :salute
A8Chewey
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You mean the spitfire of WWI?* The D. VII was the Pony of WWI*. The S.E. 5 was the Yak of WWI, as it was a beautiful plane in it's element*.
*(according to my past experiences in Red Baron 3D)
Pretty good assesment from my experience as well. Ill add the Camel to the list as the Ki-84 of WWI.
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Red Baron 2 and it's enhancement, Red baron 3D, were fun games.
I'd also take Albatros III. I'd characterize it as Bf109G-2 of WWI ;)
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Spad 13 must of been the Pony then!
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Spad 13 must of been the Pony then!
Naw, the Spads were the LAs, what with those crazy fast engines, you could get up to 180 in level flight on the deck. And the zoom climbs! Going from 1000 ft to 1750 ft in a few seconds was an experience like no other. The Nieuport 24 and 14 were wonderful planes to fly though; the 24 was easy to stall in a turn, so keep the rudder usage down to a minimum, but its 2 guns could mince almost anything up. The 17 had a weak engine, and the Sopwith Snipe was an EW version of the Camel (I think). SO comparing the two's usages would be like comparing the usages of the Spixteen and the Spit 9.
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There was a WWI arena in Air Warrior. It was always almost empty. I didn't like WWI. The problem is that you have no forward-up view. To get a taste for what it's like, map your forward-up view keys (or hat or whatever you use) to straight down (so you are looking at your cockpit floor -- i.e., no view). Then go try some stallfights, where your most-used view is forward-up. That's what it's like.
It's been a LONG time since I played AW and I don't always remember them days real horrorshow, but from what I remember the thing I disliked was that the available engine power left you with an pretty limited toolbox in most situations compared to WW2 fighters. But it just seemed like every fight that wasn't over in 15 seconds or less always degenerated pretty quickly into flat turns at stall speed because that's all the planes (or maybe any of the pilots I encountered including myself) were capable of doing at that point unless one of them had a very large e advantage.
Of course, the low number of players and lack of effective bombing or base capture meant the tactical situations one encountered were also extremely limited: co-alt 1-1 duels, or 1-1 fights where one plane started with a big alt advantage. But that isn't inherent in the era.
One thing's for sure: any decent WW1 arena would HAVE to have balloon busting! And preferably trench lines bristling with MGs dividing the map.
I think Korea would have been workable if more people had tried it. The planes there are plenty capable, you just have to adjust to a new style of fighting.
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I doubt that AW would be the experience they would rely on since they have their own demographics from Dawn of Aces which Dale et al created to draw from. Korea is another kettle of fish and suspect would be quite abit harder to put together.
AW wouldn't be the sole experience to rely on but to dismiss the lessons learned from it and other WW1 online sims would be foolish. While there is a lot of vocal support for a WW1 online sim within the online flight sim community, that vocal interest does not necessarily mean that customers will pay for a WW1 online sim.
Brooke and others have brought up the example of the WW1 arena in AW. It was a fun arena to fly in but in most cases you'd only find 5-6 people in there but usually it was empty. Flying Circus was released around '96-'97 and was probably the best WW1 online sim to hit the market. Unfortunately, again, vocal support didn't translate into $$$ and the failure of Flying Circus helped lead to the demise of SimGuild.
You bring up DoA, same problems as AW and Flying Circus. Lot of vocal support, far more vocal supporters than players.
The fact is, the consumer has shown the gaming industry that while there is a lot of vocal support for a WW1 online sim, there is far less support for actually paying to play one.
ack-ack
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The bottom line. Making a profit. Nothing more important to keep a WWI sim online.
I don't think anyone has had the resources or
the knowledge to date to keep a WWI online sim running.
Hi Tech definitely knows how to keep a WWII online sim running......and I think they know how to keep a WWI online sim running.
I hope they decide to build one. They'll pack 'em in.
<S>
Mano
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I doubt they build another WWI sim, simply for the lack of sustained general interest.
However could imagine a very simple new arena, nothing fancy, just a few bases to lauch from and a couple of planes. Nothing that ties up lot resources in the long run in form of developing any new gameplay or such.
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Kinda like another arena with only WW1 planes available. :aok Could use the existing maps with WW1 planes. It would take many months to do all the modeling, but would be a fun option to see how the "old school" planes flew.
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Kinda like another arena with only WW1 planes available. :aok Could use the existing maps with WW1 planes.
I think we'd need a new map. 25-50 miles between bases can be pretty far apart when flying @ 100 mph ;)
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The fact is, the consumer has shown the gaming industry that while there is a lot of vocal support for a WW1 online sim, there is far less support for actually paying to play one.
I can't speak for anyone else but I genuinely enjoyed DoA and it was about the only thing I did in my last year with Warbirds. I had a tremendous amount of fun and the average numbers in DoA that last year were 15-20 online during the early evening hours. The WBs community was (and Im purely guessing here) probably one fourth what the AH community is today. I would expect that something along the lines of a single map on a single server with four or five choices for rides would probably bring in on average at least double what DoA had on at any given time. That would mean 35-40 players under average circumstances (about what we get in MW on average).
Looking at it as simply an added choice for those interested is win/win for HTC and all of us players. The only genuine concern the hardcore WW2 guys have is that it would draw resources away from those arenas. Indeed it would, but only for a short period, and doing so would simply make AcesHigh a better game, imo.
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OK, back the reason I posted this thread, why was the survey taken? Was it on request or just to see how many player's were interested.
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I doubt they build another WWI sim, simply for the lack of sustained general interest.
However could imagine a very simple new arena, nothing fancy, just a few bases to lauch from and a couple of planes. Nothing that ties up lot resources in the long run in form of developing any new gameplay or such.
An arena would be the more sensible solution for the reasons you mentioned.
ack-ack
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OK, back the reason I posted this thread, why was the survey taken? Was it on request or just to see how many player's were interested.
It seemed to be more to gauge interest than anything else.
ack-ack
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Air Warrior had a Korean War arena as well. It hardly ever had anyone in it. The problem there was that it takes forever (by WWII standards) to do a 360 degree turn in an F-86 or Mig 15. Dogfights end up being glacial by WWII standards, and most of your shooting is at 1000 yards.
HiTech and Pyro flew a lot in Air Warrior. They might have the same opinion -- that WWI and Korean War arenas would have almost no players in them. For the same effort of making those arenas, they could do more in the Main Arena, which is the most-imporant and most-popular part of Aces High. Much more bang for the buck.
I not only disagree with you putting words in HT's and Pyro's mouth, but I disagree with most of your post.
WWI = no sissified runners. Noone's running from anyone, pure dogfights. I'd never set foot in the WWII arenas again. As would many others. The current Arena players are laughable and more worried about "stats" than just fighting.
Korean would be even worse than it is now, with even more runners.
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I not only disagree with you putting words in HT's and Pyro's mouth
I'm not meaning to put words in anyone's mouth. I do not mean to imply in any way that I speak for others or that I know others' thoughts. I am just pointing out history and speculating. "Might" always means that "might not" is possible, too.
WWI = no sissified runners. Noone's running from anyone, pure dogfights. I'd never set foot in the WWII arenas again. As would many others. The current Arena players are laughable and more worried about "stats" than just fighting.
Maybe, but the planes all have the same mix of stats as in WWII: some are faster than others, some turn better than others, etc. If a person in a faster plane is being chased by a slower one that turns better, he might still just disengage -- same dynamics apply.
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Maybe, but the planes all have the same mix of stats as in WWII: some are faster than others, some turn better than others, etc. If a person in a faster plane is being chased by a slower one that turns better, he might still just disengage -- same dynamics apply.
Yep. Instead of an LA-7, they'll use a Spad.
ack-ack
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WWI = no sissified runners. Noone's running from anyone, pure dogfights. I'd never set foot in the WWII arenas again. As would many others. The current Arena players are laughable and more worried about "stats" than just fighting.
Yup. The slower the planes, the more actual fights & the less running and less play for points one can see. Just see EW arena... oh wait.... :lol
(In other words: I fully agree with akak & bronk)
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Yup. The slower the planes, the more actual fights & the less running and less play for points one can see. Just see EW arena... oh wait.... :lol
(In other words: I fully agree with akak & bronk)
Actually, it's all relative. There will still be planes with the speed to avoid other planes....and folks will still use them that way.
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It'll be a different environment. The previous thread dealing with this proved it.
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First I would like to point out that in AW the WWI and Korea arena's were the ugly step sister to the main thrust which was WWII, after IEN took over WB it was the same for DoA, the lack of interest by the producers of those games led to the small numbers which played those games.
The plane comparison is just silly on the face of it, there were NO CANNONS so the HO is alot less effective, not to mention much easier to avoid in those kites, I played all of those sims and for my money when Dale and company were running the show DoA was BY FAR the best WWI game/sim I had played.
I think it would add some "new" to HTC to bring back a WWI arena and give it as much attention as it requires to make it fun, I find the existing MA to be a boreing litinany of cannon birds and I would drop my subscribtion were it not for FSO and some other senario's which have been done by some pretty dedecated folks. If HTC were to add an WWI arena, I suspect you find alot of "old timers" in there most of the time, plus when the word got out I suspect it would draw alot of the WWI community now scrabbling to fine SOME venue and so increase income for what I suspect (because they have the past knowledge) be a fairly low out lay (as compaired to a new JET arena).
I agree that most of the naysayers have an "agenda" which has nothing to do with WWI, but as a former member of the "original" PigStompers I say Squeeeeeeeeeee let the fun begin :rock
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As all ex-DoA people know, mano, boxboy etc the thinning of numbers was due to crappy fm's with iens update. I think a lot of people that like DoA but are frustrated with only two or three useful planes. If hitech don't get in soon rise of flight will probally corner the market.
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Hell, it would be great if HTC could write a whole line of different era flight sims. Hitech is apparently the only WWII flight sim designer who has ever hit upon such notions as a snap view system that actually allows you to do ACM without tearing your hair out in frustration, readable instruments, a G-meter to compensate for the fact that your butt ain't really in the seat feeling the Gs, built-in coms, and other things that put AHII head and shoulders above other flight sims. This sim'll spoil you. After you play AHII, just trying to look around you in Il2 or CFS or some Thirdwire sim seems like a big PITA.
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As all ex-DoA people know, mano, boxboy etc the thinning of numbers was due to crappy fm's with iens update. I think a lot of people that like DoA but are frustrated with only two or three useful planes. If hitech don't get in soon rise of flight will probally corner the market.
http://www.riseofflight.com/en/video7.html
Sorry but this looks fun to me!
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I think WWI with HTC flight engine would be awsome fun.
Ive always loved the Red Baron series and really enjoy the Thirdwire First Eagles games. First Eagles shows very well that WWI can be amazing fun but itīs a single player game so it doesnt give me the reall WWI fix that I need.
I for one would spend at least 70% of my time in a WWI arena.
Tex
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WWI = no sissified runners. Noone's running from anyone, pure dogfights. I'd never set foot in the WWII arenas again.
You....you mean there would be no...no winning the war...? No....goal....? No lofty chess-like strategeries...?
Sounds good to me. I wasn't a fan of WWI back in the AW days, but that was mainly because WWII air combat was still fresh. A WWI arena might just appeal to long-time flyers who are, or are becoming, jaded with the present circumstances. Arena maintenance would be comparatively easy, once a representative plane set was created. One map should do nicely more or less forever.
I doubt it would ever be well-populated. I'd expect 20-30 people a night. Of course, in my view that is just about the ideal number of people.
- oldman
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I fail to see how WWI would have less running.
If a plane is faster it will outrun a slower plane. As long as there is different planes then some planes will always be better for flee(tm).
This said given the fact that the accelleration of WWI planes is so much lower it means that you will stay in gun range longer. But then agian gun range is shorter.
WWI saw the best flee(tm) ace of all time in the baron. His tactics built around flee if your not gonna get the kill.
Basicly there wount be that much of a difference.
Combat is still about ACMs, E management and gunnary.
Slower speeds and lower acceleration just means that the maps have to be smaller. Smaller maps work well since the front was so long and narrow. The slower climb speeds just mean that the fights will be on a lower alt but it will still take the same time to get to "high alt".
WWI is just WWII divided by 3 and in much cooler planes.
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WW1 arena.....How long did it take them to say they were giving up on CT? Around 5 years or so right? Why make a WW1 arena when there's a lot more stuff they can put in for WW2.
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WW1 arena.....How long did it take them to say they were giving up on CT? Around 5 years or so right? Why make a WW1 arena when there's a lot more stuff they can put in for WW2.
Because those of us that WANT WWI are not on that "agenda" :cool: