Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: C(Sea)Bass on March 07, 2009, 04:06:45 AM
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I drive a 2001 F-150 (5.4 V8) with about 143,000 miles on it. Sometime early in January I went out start it to go to work. I noticed it was vibrating really bad as soon as it started. We had it towed tot the mechanic and he said a cylinder was misfiring due to a broken ignition coil. So they replaced the ignition coil, problem solved.... for 2 weeks. Same thing happened again, replaced another coil. 3 days later same thing happens again, so they replace all the ignition coils. Problem solved... until last night, coming home from work, the thing starts vibrating again. I'm taking it back the the mechanic today, I have a feeling its the same thing that happened before. The guy is a friend of the family we have been going to for 30 years so I doubt he is messing with us. Anyone heard of this before? or know what the heck is going on?
And I am fully prepared for all the "ford's suck" jokes about to come my way.
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My brother has gone through 6 coils in his and i think it's a 2001. The rest of the family drives chevy's.
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I assume that plugs and wires have been swapped out as well? Friend of mine has the same truck and 150,000 trouble free miles so far.
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If you can afford it, swap them all out.
I drive a Ford, but I'll be the first to say how badly they're made- mines got 70,000 miles and the entire suspension (shocks, struts, and springs all around) just had to be replaced, as well as one of the sway-bar arms (left front) and a ball join (right front). Even with most of the parts previously purchased, my bill came to almost $500 for parts and labor.
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If you can afford it, swap them all out.
I drive a Ford, but I'll be the first to say how badly they're made- mines got 70,000 miles and the entire suspension (shocks, struts, and springs all around) just had to be replaced, as well as one of the sway-bar arms (left front) and a ball join (right front). Even with most of the parts previously purchased, my bill came to almost $500 for parts and labor.
All 8 of them got replaced last month.
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Hmm...
Something else related causing the vibration but not getting picked up? Maybe something with the ignition or wiring?
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I drive a 2001 F-150 (5.4 V8) with about 143,000 miles on it. Sometime early in January I went out start it to go to work. I noticed it was vibrating really bad as soon as it started. We had it towed tot the mechanic and he said a cylinder was misfiring due to a broken ignition coil. So they replaced the ignition coil, problem solved.... for 2 weeks. Same thing happened again, replaced another coil. 3 days later same thing happens again, so they replace all the ignition coils. Problem solved... until last night, coming home from work, the thing starts vibrating again. I'm taking it back the the mechanic today, I have a feeling its the same thing that happened before. The guy is a friend of the family we have been going to for 30 years so I doubt he is messing with us. Anyone heard of this before? or know what the heck is going on?
And I am fully prepared for all the "ford's suck" jokes about to come my way.
was it the same coil every time? and which one? the 5.4's are notorious for blowing spark plugs out of their holes. you may have one going bad like that.
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was it the same coil every time? and which one? the 5.4's are notorious for blowing spark plugs out of their holes. you may have one going bad like that.
It was different coils each time.
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Some trucks with the 5.4 and expeditions were bad for having water run off the wiper cowl and onto the engine causing coil problems.
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It was different coils each time.
OK..then you probably want to replace the rest...........they tend to go bad. I HAD A 5.4 VAN, that i had to replace all 8 of them. back then they were somewhaere around $150 each or something like that....they've come down a bit since then though.
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I'd look for another electrical problem. Bad grounding wire might arc and kill the coils, bad voltage regulator might do the same, even a bad computer with a short might be killing them. If it's intermittant, you'll need to check all the wiring and connectors under the hood.
A trick - run the car at night when it's really dark, and look for little blue sparks or arcing under the hood. Have someone rev the engine while you look for little blue glowing spots. Remember it takes 30 minutes in total darkness for your eyes to fully adjust...
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I drive a 2001 F-150 (5.4 V8) with about 143,000 miles on it. Sometime early in January I went out start it to go to work. I noticed it was vibrating really bad as soon as it started. We had it towed tot the mechanic and he said a cylinder was misfiring due to a broken ignition coil. So they replaced the ignition coil, problem solved.... for 2 weeks. Same thing happened again, replaced another coil. 3 days later same thing happens again, so they replace all the ignition coils. Problem solved... until last night, coming home from work, the thing starts vibrating again. I'm taking it back the the mechanic today, I have a feeling its the same thing that happened before. The guy is a friend of the family we have been going to for 30 years so I doubt he is messing with us. Anyone heard of this before? or know what the heck is going on?
And I am fully prepared for all the "ford's suck" jokes about to come my way.
Get a Chevy.
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I'd look for another electrical problem. Bad grounding wire might arc and kill the coils, bad voltage regulator might do the same, even a bad computer with a short might be killing them. If it's intermittant, you'll need to check all the wiring and connectors under the hood.
A trick - run the car at night when it's really dark, and look for little blue sparks or arcing under the hood. Have someone rev the engine while you look for little blue glowing spots. Remember it takes 30 minutes in total darkness for your eyes to fully adjust...
he won't see anything. this is a COP.....coil on plug setup. the plugs are in wells that are about 2 inches deep. the boot(which is part of the coilpack) is down in that well, with 2 bolts holding it down, and then a 2 wire connector.
these types of coil packs have been historically bad problems for ford. it only takes a very very tiny nick in the boot, and it'll arc. the voltage output is that high.
if he wants to check them himself, he can pull them one at a time, and look very closely at them. there'll be a light white almost transparent powdery look around where the voltage is leaking.
other than that, the only other option is to replace the rest of them.
it is very rare for a ford computer to cause this/
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I have a 99 F-150 with about 150k on it and had to replace one coil-pack so far. Been a great truck....coil-pack and EGR sencor have been the only things I have had to replace.
I would have him look deeper into the ignition system. Plugs, wires..ect. Does it do it when it's damp/raining out only or all the time?
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I have a 99 F-150 with about 150k on it and had to replace one coil-pack so far. Been a great truck....coil-pack and EGR sencor have been the only things I have had to replace.
I would have him look deeper into the ignition system. Plugs, wires..ect. Does it do it when it's damp/raining out only or all the time?
there are no wires. C.O.P. system.
the ECM is the ignition system. it's an EEC5 setup.
and ya.....the DPFE sensors go bad on almost all fords all the time too
just for the record, i still like fords better. :D
another thing to look for is oil or antifreeze in the spark plug wells. this'll trash a coil pack fast
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A friend of mine has a 250, and he always complains about going through coils all the time. When it was at the worst, he went through like 2 a month.
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Ford - tough body, horrible engines. Owned one. Owned everything almost. Pontiac the worst.
Nissan Frontier's seem to go forever, the Titan has mixed reviews. I don't think they figured out the mega truck yet.
I was going to buy a f150 a few years ago, planned on dumping it around 60-80k miles (before the engines start to give) Couldn't get anyone to wait on me and my phone calls discussing lot stock resulted in me hanging up the phone wondering how they stay in business. Not surprised to see the America motor co's doing poorly.
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I drive a 2001 F-150 (5.4 V8) with about 143,000 miles on it. Sometime early in January I went out start it to go to work. I noticed it was vibrating really bad as soon as it started. We had it towed tot the mechanic and he said a cylinder was misfiring due to a broken ignition coil. So they replaced the ignition coil, problem solved.... for 2 weeks. Same thing happened again, replaced another coil. 3 days later same thing happens again, so they replace all the ignition coils. Problem solved... until last night, coming home from work, the thing starts vibrating again. I'm taking it back the the mechanic today, I have a feeling its the same thing that happened before. The guy is a friend of the family we have been going to for 30 years so I doubt he is messing with us. Anyone heard of this before? or know what the heck is going on?
And I am fully prepared for all the "ford's suck" jokes about to come my way.
When you say vibrating, I would also assume you are also getting an PO30X (1-8) misfire code from the PCM?
Is the vibration steady or only at certain speeds, certain loads?
The COP for 01 only has one water-debris retention ring on the Coil pack itself. When you pull a coil pack for any Modular family motor, just under the coil assembly itself where the boot starts (the area that goes into the head) will have a single or series of three rings for sealing. Single ring COP's don't last as long as the latter Three Ring units (Ford updated the design in late 02) and will fail on other cylinders besides the #6 and #3.
Also, you need to check the plug(s) for traces of carbon arcing on a COP that went bad. If you look at it closely the porcelain of the plug, it will have small black spider web like traces on it. Swap the plug if that occurs.
When a Coil Pack is reinstalled, it is also important to make sure that the COP boot has a good coating of Dielectric Grease inside of the boot as well.
If you are not getting a PO30X code indicating misfire, you might just have a shuttering torque convertor which is common the trans if you have went over 50K between servicing it. That will cause a buck-shudder at 45-50 mph under a light tip-in throttle in Overdrive.
Just as an FYI, Modular motors don't blow plugs from the #4 (or any hole) just because. What happens is the Mass Air Flow meter starts to fail, this causes an intermittent extreme lean condition usually on #3. Those cylinders actually have a single point overheat in the combustion chamber which expands the cylinder slightly. The plug machining onto the head was never deep enough and the plug can work its way out.
The issue is most prevalent on 4.6 Police Interceptors and certain 5.4's Trucks where the driver uses WOT (wide open throttle) quite frequently.
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When you say vibrating, I would also assume you are also getting an PO30X (1-8) misfire code from the PCM?
Is the vibration steady or only at certain speeds, certain loads?
Just as an FYI, Modular motors don't blow plugs from the #4 (or any hole) just because. What happens is the Mass Air Flow meter starts to fail, this causes an intermittent extreme lean condition usually on #3. Those cylinders actually have a single point overheat in the combustion chamber which expands the cylinder slightly. The plug machining onto the head was never deep enough and the plug can work its way out.
The issue is most prevalent on 4.6 Police Interceptors and certain 5.4's Trucks where the driver uses WOT (wide open throttle) quite frequently.
i was told......by a couple of dealer techs, that these engines(the 5.4) blow the plugs out due to a problem with the threads in the spark plug holes. i was told some of them came through with only 3 threads?
i also thought i saw a tsb alluding to the same. i'll have to wait till tomorrow when i can get into my information system.
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i was told......by a couple of dealer techs, that these engines(the 5.4) blow the plugs out due to a problem with the threads in the spark plug holes. i was told some of them came through with only 3 threads?
i also thought i saw a tsb alluding to the same. i'll have to wait till tomorrow when i can get into my information system.
What happens is during a lean out condition or quasi lean condition (not enough to effect the long term fuel trim in the cylinder bank but, causes a wild lean back in the short term fuel trim skewed by an errant Mass Air Signal), the poor machining of the head comes into play. The combustion chamber temperatures increase rapidly (usually in #3 or #4) which slightly expands the plug well area. This coupled with the poor machining makes the plug work its way out.
I left Ford in 01 (for much greener pastures in the Rail Industry :D :D) and probably investigated about 75 of these occurrences. There is a TSB for a new head but obviously anything from that date is well out of warranty and replacing a head on any Modular is big money and tremendous work.
Mostly it was present on 4.6 Crown Vicki Police Interceptors. The biggest thing to prevent it was to make sure the MAF was correct (verify the Barometric Pressure PID is equal to your true Baro at any given altitude) and to change the Fuel Filter from the smaller FG-872 to the larger FG-800. When they went to the PWM controlled returnless fuel system, they also changed to a smaller FG-872 filter. The FG-800 being much larger (and was the original in line filter for all Panther platform vehicles) also acts as a quasi-reservoir which combats the lean out condition at WOT.