Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SKJohn on March 11, 2009, 01:04:53 PM
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I was reading a book called “Fighter Pilots – Eyewitness accounts of Air Combat from the Red Baron to Today’s Top Guns.” By Jon E. Lewis. It is a series of short stories by actual pilots from the major conflicts of the past up to the present.
Anyway, in a piece by Chuck Yeager called “Flying High (p. 438)”, he was talking how fear affected different kinds of pilots, and he said:
“. . . There were still others who would fire a burst, then quickly break off; or watch somebody else hammer an airplane, then, when the German was already windmilling and going down, dive in and fire a quick burst, then try and share credit for the kill. I had a guy do that to me. Believe me, he never did it again. . . . “
I've read numerous actual accounts of HOing, now kill steaaling as well. How did Hi Tech know to allow for al these different types of realistic personalities in this game? It just truly amazes me. . . ;)
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IRL, I wouldn't call it exactly "kill stealing". More like "hatred of the enemy."
In game, you just have those who stand on the shoulders of others. That is why when someone is firing over my shoulder, I'm deliberately kill shooting them.
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Erich Hartmann was a kill stealer as well.
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In the arenas I think it is bad form. In a scenario type setting, where the enemy should be killed as quickly as possible, I'm happy to watch my wingman blow the enemy I've been fighting out of the sky.
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In the arenas I think it is bad form. In a scenario type setting, where the enemy should be killed as quickly as possible, I'm happy to watch me wingman blow the enemy I've been fighting out of the sky.
Same here. I mean, if I'm dead on someone's six in a scenario firing at them , I don't want someone swooping in and getting them, I'd rather them keep my six clear.
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In the arenas I think it is bad form. In a scenario type setting, where the enemy should be killed as quickly as possible, I'm happy to watch me wingman blow the enemy I've been fighting out of the sky.
Agree about the arenas, but it depends on the circumstances.
1) Running down a burning zero that's running just to hose it down = low-life move :furious
2) Firing on a burning bomber that's just about to drop on your CV = absolutely :aok
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Agree about the arenas, but it depends on the circumstances.
1) Running down a burning zero that's running just to hose it down = low-life move :furious
2) Firing on a burning bomber that's just about to drop on your CV = absolutely :aok
Agreed.
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You have to watch those burning zero's.... I've seen them fly long enough to come back at ya and still engage.
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You have to watch those burning zero's.... I've seen them fly long enough to come back at ya and still engage.
Only a matter of time before we see one land, rearm, and re-up. :rolleyes:
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Agree about the arenas, but it depends on the circumstances.
1) Running down a burning zero that's running just to hose it down = low-life move :furious
Now, what if it is going to take out your leader? Still no shooting it dead as a doornail?
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Now, what if it is going to take out your leader? Still no shooting it dead as a doornail?
I'm a Knight... what is this "leader" thing you refer to?
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If the roman candle zeke is saddled up on a buddy its getting hosed. Otherwise let em burn.
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2) Firing on a burning bomber that's just about to drop on your CV = absolutely :aok
I figure anything that's inbound and still a credible threat to drop troops or ords is fair game.
As far as history goes, my understanding is that kill stealing was very much NOT an acceptable behavior - not so much because of stealing someone else's glory but because if you were zooming in trying to shoot a plane that's already going down you were NOT doing your job which was to watch for other threats. Particularly if you were flying wing and the kill you were stealing was your lead's. Both pilots getting target fixated would defeat the whole purpose of flying in elements to begin with.
I'm not that familiar with Hartmann's career, but I imagine Sailor Malan or Tom Blackburn would have wrung the pencil-neck of any geek under their command who jumped in front of a squad mate to spray a plane that was already burning and out of control. :mad: Aggression in a fighter jock is a cardinal virtue but not at the expense of teamwork and discipline.
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I heard someone on range the other day yell out... " Hey.. Thanks for clearing my 12 o'clock " I just about pee'd my pants laughing... :rofl
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I'm a Knight... what is this "leader" thing you refer to?
Squad leader, wing leader, or element leader. Take your pick. For me it would be Saxman in FSOs, because he always seems to pick me as his wingman, even though I tend to break off to early to pursue other targets. For you it might be...ummm...someone in FSOs?
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The way kill-stealing is being described in this thread isn't kill stealing as I know it, it's bottom-feeding. Kill stealing as I know it is when you slip in and nail a target that a team-member has been trying to get guns on, and the longer he's been trying the higher quality the theft :D.
Bottom-feeders don't have the skill or the smarts to be true kill-thieves.
asw
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I suppose its alot like fighting on the ground, if i plug some guy two times in the chest with my m4, and another guy shoots him in the head with his m4, i doubt i would turn to him and say "you took MY kill!" more like "dang, good shot!, you alright?".
This is a game, in that.. every one's concerned with "score". In war, and battle you just want to get home alive, and probably would not care too much for someone shooting down the same A/C you shot at. not to say some greedy "aces" like bong and yeager would not get butt hurt to the ability of boasting about killing a few more "enemy". Most servicemen would be happy just to get feet back on land, and couldn't give a dang about kills or score when it comes to bangin' the wife back home one more time. :rock
Shucks.
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Erich Hartmann was a kill stealer as well.
Who, what now?
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Erich Hartmann was a kill stealer as well.
What shades account is this? He needs to crack a book, whoever he "is".
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If you can not take a Kill from another WOT Your out of the squad. Its our only rule.
KAM
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I was reading a book called “Fighter Pilots – Eyewitness accounts of Air Combat from the Red Baron to Today’s Top Guns.” By Jon E. Lewis. It is a series of short stories by actual pilots from the major conflicts of the past up to the present.
Anyway, in a piece by Chuck Yeager called “Flying High (p. 438)”, he was talking how fear affected different kinds of pilots, and he said:
“. . . There were still others who would fire a burst, then quickly break off; or watch somebody else hammer an airplane, then, when the German was already windmilling and going down, dive in and fire a quick burst, then try and share credit for the kill. I had a guy do that to me. Believe me, he never did it again. . . . “
I've read numerous actual accounts of HOing, now kill steaaling as well. How did Hi Tech know to allow for al these different types of realistic personalities in this game? It just truly amazes me. . . ;) Because DaLE (hitech) is a plane GEEK besides computer GEEK too.
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I heard someone on range the other day yell out... " Hey.. Thanks for clearing my 12 o'clock " I just about pee'd my pants laughing... :rofl
Was that me? I use that line when it happens but you forgot a few colorfull adjectives. And I through in "JERK" for good measure.
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IRL, I wouldn't call it exactly "kill stealing". More like "hatred of the enemy."
-BigBOBCH
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IRL, I wouldn't call it exactly "kill stealing". More like "hatred of the enemy."
No, I have read a quote like that from Yeager too. The guy doing it was specifically do so to get it in his gun camera and get credit for a kill. The reason he didn't do it again is because Yeager punched him (in the face, IIRC) when they got back to England and told him to never do it again.
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The reason he didn't do it again is because Yeager punched him (in the face, IIRC) when they got back to England and told him to never do it again.
If only that could be enabled in game. :D
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What shades account is this? He needs to crack a book, whoever he "is".
Ummm...that was a joke.
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" Hey.. Thanks for clearing my 12 o'clock "
:lol
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I like the part we he talks about the 1st person to get a kill in his unit winning a bottle of cogniac, he closed his eyes and fired lol...
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This is from a book on Kidd Hofer, titled " KIDD HOFER-THE LAST OF THE SCREWBALL ACES ".
Another time he was on the tail of a Jerry blasting away. He could see the half-inch slugs ripping into the Hun, but the Hun suddenly pulled away and left him, for Hofer had used up the gas in his fuselage tank and had forgotten to switch over to his wing tanks. Meanwhile, another pilot whipped in and opened fire on Kid Hofer's Hun. "Break! Break!" shouted Hofer. The pilot, led to believe that a Jerry was barreling in on his tail, broke sharply to port and Hofer zoomed in to resume his firing and destroy the Hun. :aok
Frodo
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No, I have read a quote like that from Yeager too. The guy doing it was specifically do so to get it in his gun camera and get credit for a kill. The reason he didn't do it again is because Yeager punched him (in the face, IIRC) when they got back to England and told him to never do it again.
I'm not disputing whether or not it happened to Yeager. I merely explained why it happened.
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If only that could be enabled in game. :D
There is a consortium of online gamers in internet trying for years to develop a new protocol for online gaming, but they are still pondering would it be better to be "Hammer-over-IP" or "Flail-over-IP"... It would solve alot of these daily problems :devil
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I'm not disputing whether or not it happened to Yeager. I merely explained why it happened.
I know, but your explanation was wrong.
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I know, but your explanation was wrong.
Got it, you're correct as always.
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Got it, you're correct as always.
Don't be absurd or insulting. You were just making excuses for the guy without knowing anything more about it so far as I could tell from your posts. WWII vets did great things for us, but they are not higher beings. They had flaws and did bad things too.
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Indeed, Douglas Bader was a bit of a **** by some accounts.
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Don't be absurd or insulting. You were just making excuses for the guy without knowing anything more about it so far as I could tell from your posts. WWII vets did great things for us, but they are not higher beings. They had flaws and did bad things too.
I never made excuses. Again, you prove that "you will be right." Get over yourself Karnak.
Ask a PTO Vet. Then make your ridiculous accusations.
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The more i hear about yeager the less i like about him.
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The more i hear about yeager the less i like about him.
You aren't the only one. But I'll be damned if someone like Karnak is going to attempt to tell me "how he thinks I treat Vets."