Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: mmurek on March 15, 2009, 01:08:53 PM
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This is the first flight sim I have ever played and I have only been playing for a day so bear with me. I have been reading the websites and forums so I have found the answers to a lot of my questions already. I am flying a Spit8 as suggested for a first plane on netaces.org, I can get up and fly around OK even knock out the AI. All I am trying to accomplish at this point is getting from one airfield to another and land without crashing, I can do neither. Is there any way to tell where the heck you are while flying, besides just watching your compass and learning the terrain? Any tips on landing? I have read the guide on the trainer site but so far no luck. I am using a joystick, albeit a fairly ancient Wingman Extreme that I have to recalibrate everytime I boot my computer. Thanks in advance for any help.
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Welcome mmurek,
Each time you bring up the clipboard (ESC), the map centers on your plane (shown by the grey plane symbol in the center). INS & DEL is mapzoom, use mouse to drag map around, rightclick on map for more options and legend.
Change airfields when in tower by doublecklicking on them or type .move XX in the text chat box, XX being the field number.
Landing - there's a guide on the Training Corps webpage too. Just keep it as smooth & slow & gentle as possible. Shallow, slow approach.
If still having trouble, come to the Trainign Arena. Even when no official trainer is around there are usually several helpful players there that can help you with such basic problems.
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The ESC key brings up a clipboard with a map. You are the plane on the map. You are going in the direction the plane is pointing. In the Main Arena's, green dots are friendly aircraft and, withing the radar circle of a friendly airbase with functioning radar the red dots are enemy aircraft.
Landing is about getting slow enough to stop flying but not so slow as to fall out of the sky. Below 200mph you can lower your landing gear. It is really a balance between throttle and descent. Cut throttle enough to be able to descend at a speed between 180 and 120mph. Use flaps if needed for extra lift as you get slow. Try to keep your speed up above where you start to hear your stall buffet. Any slower and you'll hit the ground faster than you expected. As you touch down, cut throttle and apply brakes while gently pulling back on the stick to lock the tail wheel. If you launch back into the air, release back pressure until you are back on the ground.
Some advocate not using your gear at all as it cuts out the "bounce" aspect. You can usually ditch and slide in on your belly below 200mph as long as your decent angle is not too great.
wrongway
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Welcome to AH.
Logitech joysticks are generally worthless. Your best bet long term is to save your pennies for CH gear. Meanwhile the Saitek ST290 Pro should suffice for awhile.
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I saw someone with a printout picture of EVERY SINGLE Button and command in the game, if your watching pls post it for this guy.
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Thanks for the map info, new what it was and how it functioned, just never thought to hit esc to bring it up while flying, duh! Still working on landing, my main problem seems to be trying to make minor adjustments to get lined up with the runway, I always end up in the grass. I don't think the stick is the total problem, more the operator, but I will definitely take a change into consideration if I decide to get serious about this. Thanks again!
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That printout would be great! A lot to learn, a cheat sheet would certainly help!
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See the One Page Quick Reference PDF on the Aces High Training Corps Website (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com)
All important default keys as well as radio info and important .dot commands
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If you're swerving off the runway on landing, once your speed has bleed off enough try holding the joystick back, this will lock the tailwheel and should reduce the amount of rudder or brake input you'll need to keep the plane tracking straight down the runway.
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One thing to be aware of is the Spit has very narrow landing gear, which makes it tricky to land and take off. Although you can use auto T/O to save some hassle there is no auto landing LOL. Key points in the spit are flaps and gear can only be dropped below 160 MPH and it is best to touch down at about 100 MPH.
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Welcome to the game murek. You have a good approach in coming here and asking questions, many new players simply get discouraged, never seek advice and never learn the game (or worse, learn the game improperly). The advice you've been given so far is all good, the only thing I might add is something regarding landing. You said you have trouble lining up and actually touching down on the runway. This is where rudder is very useful. Use rudder to make minor course corrections and you will not need to take the time to roll one way or the other. Rudder also creates drag, which bleeds off excess airspeed, which can also help you in getting slow enough to land.
Remember when landing, if you think you are slow enough and still flying, you can always get slower. The easiest landings are actually controlled stalls: the plane stalls just as the wheels are touching down. If you land as slow as possible (use flaps), and try when possible to use "3 point" landings (centerline wheels and tailwheel touch at the same time), your landings should not be any issue at all. Just takes patience, and practice. Good luck.
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I saw someone with a printout picture of EVERY SINGLE Button and command in the game, if your watching pls post it for this guy.
Not sure if this is what your refering to but Ciaphas made some keyboard cheat sheets that may be helpful. You can find them in this thread http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,259270.0.html
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I am getting better guys, I actually crashed ON the runway this last time! If I had remembered to drop my gear and hit the flaps I might have made it! Seriously though thanks for all the help and I am taking it all in, the response I have gotten here in such a short time is incredible. This forum is very impressive so far and thanks again!
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I am getting better guys, I actually crashed ON the runway this last time! If I had remembered to drop my gear and hit the flaps I might have made it!
Actually dropping gear isn't strictly necessary to get a successful landing message. As long as you and on runway you are fine.
In some situations, particularly when having lost one gear due to battle damage, it's even highly advisable NOT to lower your gear at all.
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Spit not easy to land...you might want to try something like a p38 to practice landing.
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Actually dropping gear isn't strictly necessary to get a successful landing message. As long as you and on runway you are fine.
In some situations, particularly when having lost one gear due to battle damage, it's even highly advisable NOT to lower your gear at all.
Here is proof you dont need to have gear down to get successful landing,,,,now people know why I took LawnDart as a name in game...
(http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo28/ebfd11/ahss32.jpg)
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Here is proof you dont need to have gear down to get successful landing,,,,now people know why I took LawnDart as a name in game...
(http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo28/ebfd11/ahss32.jpg)
but your gear (what's left of it anyway), IS down!
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Welcome to AH!
My advice to you is to practice other stuff first and landings will come.
When you up do it to practice something else then landing. After you have practice what you want to do you will get to do a landing.
What I suggest you practice is your ACMs. Air Combat Manouver (ACM) is the collective word for manouvers you use in combat. Basicly just a fancy word for all manouvers you can think of. But there are some that are inperticuallary important to master.
The four most important and basic are imho.
* Loop
* Immelman
* High YoYo
* Low YoYo
Practice these manouvers and practice chaining them together so that you do one after the other. Bascily just go out there and do your manouvers and learn to feel the plane how hard you can push it without stalling.
Do this and you will have no problem landing as you will have a greater feel for the plane.
Good luck and remember fun is more important then perfect.
Tex
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The P38 takes forever to slow down and the departure is pretty sharp. You should try the A6M2 or D3A to learn landings and take-offs with.
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Landing:
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/combatlanding/combatlanding.htm (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/combatlanding/combatlanding.htm)
I'd recommend Hurricanes for practising this stuff - very stable and great view over the nose. Spits' ground handling can be a bit ... squirrely :)
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Thanks for the map info, new what it was and how it functioned, just never thought to hit esc to bring it up while flying, duh! Still working on landing, my main problem seems to be trying to make minor adjustments to get lined up with the runway, I always end up in the grass. I don't think the stick is the total problem, more the operator, but I will definitely take a change into consideration if I decide to get serious about this. Thanks again!
To a large degree comfort level in landing is a reflection of overall comfort in low speed flying. Most planes are very stable at low speed if properly configured but very unstable if over handled or if stalled. For most planes the issues are controlling your rate of decent and torque. Rate of decent is quickly learned however torque can require rudder inputs. One nice training tip is doing low speed "fly by's". Drop down and fly the runway just of the ground at 120 mph or so and circle around at the same speed (you'll need just a bit of power on turns). Spend 15 minutes or so just making a few circuits like that and you'll be fine.
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but your gear (what's left of it anyway), IS down!
:rofl
We don't call him Lawn-Tard for nothing. (http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/smilies/rolleye0003.gif)
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A noob asking questions on the board is a GOOD thing!
FWIW, I rarely bother with landing gear. If the field is capped and facing a vulch, this will slow down your plane once it touches down much faster than if you had gear down. If you prefer to land with gear down and are having trouble steering the plane once you touch down, land the plane with as little airpseed as possible. It sounds so basic but it will really help you.
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Any tips on landing? I have read the guide on the trainer site but so far no luck.
I'm no real expert, but here's my take on landing:
Throttle controls descent rate, elevator controls airspeed.
Just for practice, come into the field around 1000-1500' (remember the altimeter shows above sea level, not above ground level). If the field alt is 300' (shown on the map as 0.3k) if your altimeter shows 1300' you are 1000' above the field. Try the Hurricane MkIIc if you want to practice with a taildragger. Approach speed 150mph, combat trim off (if you had it on), cut throttle a bit, flaps down, gear down. If your speed is over 160 you can't deploy flaps and your gear may rip off if lowered.
If you need to bleed speed, you can perform left and right S-turns (cut back on throttle and bank left, pull back on stick, fly 45-60 degrees left of airbase - bank right, pull stick back fly 45-60 degrees right of airbase - repeat as necessary) until your speed is around 170. Get lined up with airbase again and continue to slow until 160 where you can drop flaps. Once flaps are down you should be slowing fast, drop gear at 150 and throttle up a bit to make up for the drag.
Once you're stabilized, small throttle changes to keep your sink rate between 500-1000 feet per minute and pull back on stick and/or use elevator trim for neutral stick to adjust airspeed (which should be steadily decreasing). Ideally, when you are over the runway threshold, you should be 50' or so and airspeed around 70-90 mph, the stall buzzer should start sounding and your sink rate should be 10-100 feet per minute.
Chop throttle to idle and let it settle onto the runway. Since your stick is probably pulled back at least halfway, your tailwheel will already be locked once your tail settles onto the ground and steering should be minimal with the rudder. Apply brakes and you're down safe.
After you've done it a few times it'll be second nature and you can start practicing combat landings and other hard-manouvering techniques to come in hot and land quickly.
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ImADot seems to have it pretty close as far as I can tell. The only thing I would add to that my experince has been to not land with engine at idlebut to leave just a hair of throttle until wheels touch. For some reason this seems to help you remain more stable until your gear touches. You can then throttle back to idle and apply brakes to bring your aircraft to a stop.
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If you need to bleed speed, you can perform left and right S-turns
Sticking the rudder into the slip stream works even better. Full rudder with cross controls for a nice slip on approach will really slow you down. :aok
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Yup, was thinking about the fact that I didn't include the rudder-skid as I was driving home from work. :)
Some planes, especially the ones with huge rudders, can drop speed so fast in a skid that you can practically drop like a rock in no time.
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Just got home from work and finished reading all the post since last night, great advice from everyone you guys are awesome! I think the best advice for me right now was to just take some time working on ACMs and getting more used to the plane. I have only been at this a couple days, but of course expect to be an expert by now. If it was easy what would be the fun. Thanks again guys, off to do some loops and yoyo"s and stuff!
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If you've already started your free 2 weeks online, go to the training arena. Always lots of guys ready to help (and some really great Training Corps members too).
If you are still flying offline, keep asking questions and practicing; I flew offline for about a month while all the time reading and practicing. Once I started my 2-week trial I knew I was hooked. Of course, you don't have to wait a month...you'll actually learn more faster in the online training arena.
Be prepared for your house to get dusty and start to crumble down around you while you can't do anything else but fly against a world full of real people once you go online. :D
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One thing I can recommend when it comes to practicing ACMs is to get a "plane model" that you can play with irl. I write "plane model" because anything will do. I use my cellphone.
What I do with it is that I fly manouvers in the air infront of me. I visualize the manouvers and the positions I obtain through out the manouvers and what other manouvers I can do "within" the initial manouver.
For example I take my phone and I start doing a High YoYo at the top of the YoYo I notice that Im actually a quarter of a "lap" into a roll. So from there instead of finishing the YoYo I explore what other options I have. For example I can roll another quarter of a lap into a inverted position and do a split-s from there.
High YoYo+Split S isnt maybe that usefull of a manouver but its an example thats quite easy to visualize.
"Flying" through the manouvers and finding how you can chain them together is very good because it lets you try stuff when your actually not in the air. Then once you get in the game you can try out your ideas.
But as first step its just great way to visualize the instructions you read when you read them on the internet.
Tex
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Didn't have time to read all the posts and I'm not suer if anyone has mentioned this, but in some planes there is alot of torque and it's alot easier if you just turn the engine off just before you touch down. Lets you roll out in a nice straight line if you are looking for a clean looking landing or rearm. This is especically helpful in F4's and Typh/Temp's for newbies.
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Didn't have time to read all the posts and I'm not suer if anyone has mentioned this, but in some planes there is alot of torque and it's alot easier if you just turn the engine off just before you touch down. Lets you roll out in a nice straight line if you are looking for a clean looking landing or rearm. This is especically helpful in F4's and Typh/Temp's for newbies.
I'd hesitate to avoid this, because IMO it's just avoiding the problem and avoiding learning how to deal with it. Learning to deal with the control problems of landing goes a long way towards developing a feel for other slow flight aspects. Similarly, I wouldn't tell someone to use Auto Takeoff when they ask how to takeoff.
Specifically in the F4U, most landing difficulties can be eliminated by flaring and slowing to a stall just as your wheels hit. My touchdown speed in the F4U is around 80 (maybe slightly less). Holding the stick back after touchdown and a bit of differential wheel braking eliminates the nasty landing of that and any other plane in the game. I've helped a lot of people learn to land easily in an F4U. Every single one had problems due to excessive speed at touchdown, and every single one found it much easier to control if they held the plane off the runway until the plane slowed down.
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Here's how I land...
1> Approach the airfield at 10K+
2> Dive steeply
3> Approach the runway at 400+MPH
4> Apply full right rudder
5> At about 200MPH (faster in some planes) keep hitting the landing gear button until you hear CREAK CREAK CREAK
6> At about 150MPH (faster in some planes) keep hitting the flaps down button
7> Release rudder and center while touching down 2/3rds of the way down the runway, apply brakes
8> While approaching the end of the runway, veer to the left side of the runway, apply full right rudder and full right brake
9> Flip sideways (and upside down if I'm lucky) and skid to a stop on the pavement.
OK.. not the BEST way to land, but it sure makes things interesting!
Of course, the procedure has to be altered just a bit in cases such as.. lets say... no engine.. no rudder.. no elevators... no wing...
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I'd hesitate to avoid this, because IMO it's just avoiding the problem and avoiding learning how to deal with it. Learning to deal with the control problems of landing goes a long way towards developing a feel for other slow flight aspects. Similarly, I wouldn't tell someone to use Auto Takeoff when they ask how to takeoff.
Specifically in the F4U, most landing difficulties can be eliminated by flaring and slowing to a stall just as your wheels hit. My touchdown speed in the F4U is around 80 (maybe slightly less). Holding the stick back after touchdown and a bit of differential wheel braking eliminates the nasty landing of that and any other plane in the game. I've helped a lot of people learn to land easily in an F4U. Every single one had problems due to excessive speed at touchdown, and every single one found it much easier to control if they held the plane off the runway until the plane slowed down.
As long as you've left unknowns in the tools you use, you add one more thing that could distract you or otherwise handicap you come showtime.
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Just got home from work and finished reading all the post since last night, great advice from everyone you guys are awesome! I think the best advice for me right now was to just take some time working on ACMs and getting more used to the plane. I have only been at this a couple days, but of course expect to be an expert by now. If it was easy what would be the fun. Thanks again guys, off to do some loops and yoyo"s and stuff!
Download some of the offline missions, instant immersion. and many of these mission planes put up better fights then folks in the game
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Welcome aboard :salute
While the game is one of the best dogfight sims around you do need to learn to crawl before you fly...errr....walk...
ACM is air combat maneuvering. This is used to gain a kill using BFM which is basic fighter manuevering.
What all of these acronyms means is..once you learn how to fly they become important. Until then suggest you fly a Japanese plane. They have big red targets painted on them which allows folks align more easily for a shot. :)
Ok, all jokin aside, first learn to fly. You asking how to land shows us how far you need to go. The good news is it sure is a lot of fun learning.
Ref: landing, speed is everything. When you want to land you are telling the plane you want it to stop flying. Under Control
As long as its moving forward with x amount of wind flowing around the wings it will fly. When you slow it to the point the air is no longer supporting the wing it will stop flying. For you to know what speed the plane flies at you need to be able to look at and read all the instruments on the ole dashboard. When you give her the gas and she begins rolling keep track of the airspeed indicator. Note the speed she wants to lift off. She will lift off when she gets flying speed. Now you know what speed she can fly at in a clean configuration. It may be 120 mph. It could be more or less depending on the plane. Now is where it gets tricky.
You speed will now depend on how high you have the nose as you climb out. There's an old saying. "pull back stick, houses get smaller". "Pull back stick more, houses get bigger". That can be taken two ways. You have enough speed to come over the top in a loop or (and more appropriately) you pull the nose up high enough until the engine/propellar can no longer sustain enough forward speed to continue flying and she stalls. Ergo, houses get bigger....so if you continue a gentle nose up climb the plane can and will accelerate. No comes the fun part. If you level off the plane really wants to get moving. If you stay level for 5 minutes the plane will actually get up to her cruisin speed. It may be 280 mph or up to 325 mph again depending on the plane.
Altitude also plays a role in speed but that not required in this discussion at this time. So now you're cruisin along in level flight
at say 300 mph. Yer getting kind of used to it. Wow, this is fun and I can turn and go or down. Cool! There in lies the problem for first time flyers. They get used to the speed. Now we get back to the topic...landing.
You got up up and climb out and did some basic flying around having a good time.
But now you wanna land it. You have a lot of altitude as you near the field. If you push the nose over gravity helps you and the next thing you know yer doing 400 mph. Hmmm...lessee I took of at 120 mph...I'm screaming outa the sky at 400 mph. Not very conducive to landing my plane in one piece. No problem I pull the throttle back to idle. Hmmm...not much change in speed. Wow, now I'm getting real close to the airfield. I level off a lil bit but the speed seems to still be up there in the 300 mph range. Since I have learned to look at the airspeed indicator I can see I'm way to fast...So how do I slow down? Easy, keep the throttle at idle and stay level for a while. The plane will begin to slow. If you dip the nose even a little bit the slower process takes longer. Stay level and let the plane continue to slow. Let her slow all the way down to that initial take off speed of 120 mph. Try flying at that speed with easy shallow banked turns. Hmmm... she still flies ok. So you know she took off and can fly at 120 mph. If you're level and you slow her by cutting the throttle just a little she begins to drop her nose and starts down again. At 110 mph she is nose down but under control. Its because you are not asking her to go up or even stay level but do a gentle descent.
Ok, now you have an idea that planes like speed, they also get sluggish when slow. They are sometimes hard to slow down. There are ways to speed up the slowing process...Is that an oxymoron? But your kinda new and it's better that you get a handle on a normal landing. You notice I haven't told you anything about landing yet? Read on...
Flaps. Flaps increase the wing area which there by increases lift. What does that mean? It means you can fly the plane at a slower speed than you took off with in the clean configuration. If you take off at 120 and she flies then adding flaps allows you to slow and still fly to around 100 mph. Again speeds are relative to the diffferent types of planes. So if you added flaps and let the plane slow to 100 mph she will fly about the same as if you had the flaps up at 120 mph. Again if you cut the throttle to slow to 90 mph her nose drops and she starts down again.
Gear. Scraping the belly of the plane gets yer mechanics mad cause they gotta fix it before you go back up. Gear is what you land on. Its a good thing cause you might wanna use that same plane again. Kinda like a fuel and go. Putting the gear down increases drag on the airframe. When you put it down the plane will want to slow some. To maintain level flight you will need to add a little throttle.
Just about every plane (there are some exceptions) has a gear over speed limit. At 200 mph if you dump the gear out it's a good possibility that the gear will rip off. Not a good thing. You also know that your plane flies ok at 120mph clean. So what's a good speed to dump gear? 190 mph? 130? 150? what? Here's an easy way to confirm you wont rip your gear off. Most (not all) AH planes will usually not extend flaps over 160 mph. If your speed is in excess of 160 mph they just won't go down. Hmmm, if I can put my flaps down at 160 mph then why not put in flaps at 160 mph when they go down then put out the gear? If the flaps on that spitfire you took up will go down then the gear will also safely extend. One number to remember for that plane. That's kinda easy! In fact, if you use 160mph for all planes in the game (for landing) and you add flaps then extend the gear you will never lose it.
So let's take a spitfire mkV for a ride. Go into the hanger, take 1/2 tank of gas. Take a runway like SW or W. Take off, note the speed she breaks ground. Got it? cool! Climb out and fly around some. Enjoy the ride. You probably flew a few miles from the field. Turn back and cut the throttle and let the nose drop some. Let her descend until she is within a few 1-2000 feet above the field and level off. Ok lets doa checklist.
1) Yer level and cut throttle to slow at 2000 ft near the field its easier to circle for the approach away from the field. Although you can use a landing pattern which is designed to take you out of cruise flight into landing pattern alt and speeds. For now, just stage out away from the airfield a bit.
2) You get down to 160 mph and hit flaps down the plane will continue to slow because the throttle is back and you're level
3) Dump the gear. Now the plane really begins to slow and you must add some throttle to maintain level flight. At this point you are flying near the airfield and have slowed to a point you can begin an approach. There is no VASI or PAPI (approach light guidence systems) so the easy way is to use your gunsight and point yer guns at the near end of the runway. Now you are actually aiming yer plane at a landing point. Cut throttle and let the plane slow to 100 mph.
4) As you near the end of the runway cut throttle a little more and let the plane slow to 90 mph.
5) As you come over the end of the runway you will be low and you need to look down to the far end of the runway for
alignment.
6) Ease throttle off more and gently ease the nose up. The will slow you a lil more and the plane will begin to settle on the runway. Let it.
7) When you hear the thump and see she's down cut throttle and pull stick gently and slowly all the way straight back.
8) Backspace key is wheel brakes...use it to stop.
Alternatively, you can read through this a few times then come for a ride with me in my plane in the Training Arena (TA).
As I take you throught the landing I can call out the speeds and when Im doing what (as mentioned above) and you can see it unfold.
Hope this helps
Ren
Aces High Training Corps
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Actually dropping gear isn't strictly necessary to get a successful landing message. As long as you and on runway you are fine.
In some situations, particularly when having lost one gear due to battle damage, it's even highly advisable NOT to lower your gear at all.
Quoted for truth. In the MA, FSOs, etc. some pilots who have taken damage choose to land without their landing gears down in order to get down faster, particularly if the air is losing oxygen and gaining bullets.