Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: killjoy1 on June 18, 2001, 06:02:00 PM
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Problem: 1) Knights aren't attracting enough numbers to make a viable country. 2)AH can't support enough numbers to make an HA.
Solution: 1) Encourage nits to go bish or rook and phase out that country. Viola! no more nit problem. 2) Now that we only have 2 countries we can create half a map for HA by having historical matchups at opposing fields and half a map with "anything goes" AG just like we have now.
Seriously folks, the major impediment to an HA arrangement in the MA is 3 and 4 countries. But with 2 countries the setup is easy. Think about it. If one side is over powering the other in MA side, the HA side could make up the lost ground. The HA side could also feature new matchups at certain times of the day or week and with resets.
Since we are loosing nit numbers anyway, lets formalize it so we can move on to the MA/HA.
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A good idea, but in Aces High situation, it's a bad one.
Let's face it, this problem has been around since Air Warrior and unfortunately there is no easy solution. :(
Change it to a historical arena and you'd upset a lot of players. For a lot squads that play online, they have a particular bird they fly with. The squad I fly in (412th Mustangs) wouldn't have a ride in a 1939 HA. I'm sure there are FW190 riders out there who would be in the same boat.
It's a nifty idea if we had over 500 players in the arena all the time, but we don't. We need the numbers to support a historical and FFA arenas.
(http://www.telusplanet.net/public/brandor/images/412.gif)
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Vruth: 1st Lt
412th Braunco Mustangs
[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Vruth ]
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Ahhh but remember, half the map always has every plane available. Let just a corner of the map be HA even.
But you can't do it unless you have just 2 countries.
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You are talking about a serious architecture change to the game just to accomidate a particial historical arena.
As a programmer and knowing code, this would be a MAJOR overhaul of the existing engine which I'm sure Dale and Doug are not about to spend money on when they have more important items like Trains and Road to put in for 1.08.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just not possible here.
V.
[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Vruth ]
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Well here's the approach I would take:
1. Compliment people you fight against
2. Tell them you'd like to wing with them.
3. Tell them you want them in your squad.
4. Ask them to change countries and invite them into your squad.
Recruitment is much better than whining and sounding like a looser.
Nexus
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S!
Where this idea that there would need to be a major overhaul in the game's archetecture in order to create a Historical Arena comes from I don't know. As far as I'm concerned it is a complete Red Herring.
The game currently incorporates land units, sea units and air units. They are now saying they will incorporate Trains and better terrain momentarily. As far as I can see that covers the whole spectrum of the HA I proposed in my earlier post. ("Hey Hitech and Pyro...") The only aspect which might now work with the current enviroment is Submarines, due to the fact there is probably no allowance for the 3D terrain to continue below the surface of water bodies.
They already have building entities, so they can design other 3D terrain. They already have animations for paratroopers, so they can create animations for Squads of soldiers.
They have demonstrated the Sims ability to handle AI demands, in this case, the AA and Naval Task Forces.
It is simply a matter of deciding that some or all of their their future creations will be structured to fit a particular historical period. ;)
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knits aren't out numbered per se. No one is saying give me more knits lol.
How about reading the friggin roster.
What we, atleast me anyway, are saying is that everynight for 7 weeks bishops have twice the number of rooks/knights combined. Thats everynight.
The fact that knights are always en masse raped by bish only adds to the frustration.
Rooks haven't done crap but hide behind bish. I was rook when they were raped in the first tour with the Uterous map by the knights but that lasted a couple of weeks not 7. Go back and check the rook threads full off whining about them days. It took much more to get knights pissed.
I was bish when the first island map came out and they were raped over several days. You should of heard the beetchin they put up.
The reason you are hearing it now and often 'cause 7 weeks is to damn long.
You had all these posts by hypocrits about "what type of community" we have here but then just add to its degeneration. The constant reduction of 1 side by the quantity of another no matter what side your on gets boring and people will leave. If you think less people in AH is good keep up the good work.
Don't gimme that for everyone that leaves crap. Numbers are back down to 150-160 a night where they were when I started during tour 3. Yeah you will get 2 week wonders flying buffs begging for "someone I need a gunner".
Keep deluding yourself that this is a knit problem. Do some research back when the tables were turned.
Solution? dunno not paid to come up with them. I do know that it can be handled by people in the game but like all other things left to the mob we'll just keep on like it is.
This is directed at all those "cling-ons" who jump on the pile as if they have the slightest understanding of whats up.
(http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/rot3jv44.jpg)
[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]
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Wotan, I think you have a good point about numbers being down overal.
They are down.
I have to confess, I only suggested closing nitland because I can't find a solution to put an mini HA in the MA even between 2 fields without changing to 2 countries.
I would dearly love some historical matchups available in the MA, but it loooks doubful with 3 countries.
I hadn't noticed the numbers going so low.
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In Warbirds, we had a country numbers problem. Pyro asked a few of the squadrons within the higher numbered countrys to switch their squadrons to the lower numbered countries. Thats the solution, guys, and the honorable thing to do, but if your squadron does not, it just shows the rest of us that you NEED to have numbers to do what you do best...which anyone can do...I challenge some of you higher numbered squadrons flying bish to switch to Knits or Rooks...bet ya can't do what ya did with numbers.... :)
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Ripsnort,
I'll bring this issue up with my squad.
Traditionally, we have always stuck to one country - regardless of the numbers.
If we start hopping - that would mean the gaining country will be getting 63 players - which equates to an average gain of 5 to 15 every night and 20 to 30 every sunday starting around 9 pm EST.
Any way, I'll bring it up and see where it goes.
Nexus
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Nexus, you are correct, it works that way, when JG2 had 65+ players, we NEVER had more than 15 online at one time. Take any squad number, divide by 3, thats what you'll have online at any one given time, except maybe squad night (and even then, I never got more than 20 online on squad night)
If Knits had the numbers Bish had for 7 weeks, even though I don't like switching countries, I believe I would have changed the squad by now for the sake of having a worthy opponent, that being somewhat balanced.
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
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Incidently, the 2-country theory has played itself out for 15 years in various online sims, and it has never worked...for a recent example, see the WW2 arena in Warbirds, though that is a historical planeset...it gets worse with 2 countrys.
[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]
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WW2 Arena in WARBIRDS Rip, WARBIRDS!!
-SW
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TODAY ONLY!!
DOUBLE GREEN STAMPS FOR EVERY SQUAD SWITCHING TO KNIGHTS!!!
HURRY...LIMITED TIME OFFER!!!
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Thks Sea Wulf! LOL!~ Editted!
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Here's the solution:
Perk points awarded to pilots that switch to a country that is at a serious disadvantaged in numbers and qty of bases. Think of it as mercenary pay in return for your service. (you'd actually have to fly and/or make at least one kill for the country before the points are awarded to keep people honest :D )
MiG
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Hiya Mig, yes, been mentioned in the GP forum several times, I believe HTC is working on this as we speak...when new maps come out, I'm sure there will be some sort of concessions made.
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If one were to take a 365 day sampling, I'm sure country numbers would be close to even. I've been in the positon of being overwhelmed by numbers in AW and in AH. for the many years I've been playing online flight sims, what goes around comes around, is truer then not.
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you can talk about it all you want, your wasting your time.
As long as squads, big or small, contuine to rotate, the problem will never go away.
If rotating squads where to stop rotating, the teams would start to even out with in a few months.
you would have those that want to fly with certain squads going to the team they are flying for.
the pilots that want to see it an even set up would go to the team or teams with the smaller numbers.
with in a few months, it would even out and the problem would not be as big as it is now. yes pending the time of day you where on, people taking a night off, and many other reasons the numbers would be unbalanced for a night or two. but each team would go through this. but it would not be for an entire tour as it is now.
so take all you want, and those squads that rotate every month can say what ever they like, untill it stops, the problem will always be here.
wolf37
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We don't need no stinkin defectors ,, We're Knights Damn It , WE are the KOTS (King Of The Skies!!!
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Well I, for one, must say that I am proud to have sponsored this topic if it has solved the nit problem.
But the nit problem will not go away, it is too deeply rooted in nits. Oh yea with years of therapy and lots of govt programs involving vouchers and things like that, maybe.
On the other hand, I think if we just straightened up a little around nitland. It might make the place more attractive and people, nice people might feel more confortable there. :)
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Change MA's architecture is a problem,but keep open the special event arena for historically or nations match up no.
Saturday,special arena haved an event of 3 hours,allied vs axis,and was playing 56 people,others 110 more people was in MA.
I think that make a test in SP event arena,whit historically plane set for each country,turning every 3 days or so the nations that fights against,whit an historically map,(we have a lot of map ready),leaving dar and statistic open like in MA,could give a chance of change situations,for evrybody that wanna some different from MA.
I think we have the number for make a test,look saturday.
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Killjoy:
It is good to see that you are proud of your topic. but is is so sad to see that you only started this post as an insult to the pilots that fly for the Knights. It seems that there are so many Bishop and Rook pilots that well having greater numbers can do nothing but insult the pilots that fly for the Knights.
How pathetic. Instead of looking for a way that might help make things even, you can only throw insults. well Killjoy, you can stop patting yourself on the shoulder any time now.
wolf37
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Listen: AH needs an HA; if it fails to adapt to the market, the HTC is DEAD. DOOMED. As far as I can see, the whole war simulation, such as in WWIIOL is the wave of the future. And the sooner we get an HA, the better, considering that WWIIOL is a pathetic excuse for an HA.
And, killjoy: we aren't talking about Bish vs. Rook, we're talkin about Axis vs. Allies.
Your idea is good, but you DO realize that it actually involves 4 countries.
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Originally posted by DocFalconer1:
Listen: AH needs an HA; if it fails to adapt to the market, the HTC is DEAD. DOOMED. As far as I can see, the whole war simulation, such as in WWIIOL is the wave of the future.
Hehe... you know WB ran solid for a several years before it had an HA.. and then it was never very popular.
I guess that despite hindsight, you still want to predict the future?
-SW
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I hope the Damned go Rooks, We have more sheep per capita ( knowing how the Damned enjoy their sheep) But even going knights would be ok. Numbers haven't bothered me at all My gameplay style fits a target rich environment. I get more kills per sortie, I just never get to land them.
NUTTZ
Originally posted by DmdNexus:
Ripsnort,
I'll bring this issue up with my squad.
Traditionally, we have always stuck to one country - regardless of the numbers.
If we start hopping - that would mean the gaining country will be getting 63 players - which equates to an average gain of 5 to 15 every night and 20 to 30 every sunday starting around 9 pm EST.
Any way, I'll bring it up and see where it goes.
Nexus
null
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Here's one more try at this without any attempt at humour.
Objective: Find a way to make a corner of the MA into a HA.
When I sat down to draw out a map for this, the 3 country formula just didn't work. 4 countries didn't work. But 2 countries did.
Here's the reasoning.
1) The HA has not worked for WB's and probably won't work for AH. Scenarios, Check 6 are great BTW.
2) By default the HA is 2 sides. Even if you have a N African front its Axis vs Allies.
3) When you add in 3 sides, who gets Axis and who gets allied. It will be 2 vs 1 and that won't work. 4 countrys clouds the problem further when you spread it out on the map.
4) The map determines everything. When you have 3 countries you effectively have a circle map. 2 countries are linear.
5) If you had one portion of the map open to all planes, but a strategic portion on the side with rotating HA sets, you might possibly be able to combine the two.
One last thing. My humour doesn't translate well on the BBS and I won't try it again without a lot of thought. I have seemingly offended people I don't even know without even trying. But think what I could do if I put an effort into it!
I really like AH and I like the community, but we could lighten up some.