Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: ArkanReb on June 20, 2000, 09:58:00 PM
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Well the topic says it all.I looked around the site for any explanation and couldn't find one.I checked out the main gun sight and couldn't figure out the catch here.Anyone know?
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Hit the "z" key and then zoom in/out using the "[" and "]" keys. You can do this in ANY view, including gunner positions on bombers. I find the new tank sight more than restrictive, but the zoomed-in view kicks butt. I'm getting rounds on target a LOT faster than before.
Flakbait
"Disorder came from order, fear came from courage, weakness came from strength."
Sun Tzu: The Art of War
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I think the question is: How do you get range info through the new gunsite?
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Thankyou for the replies.Ra is correct-Flackbait how do you figure out range to target with the new site is my question.
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Old thread, same question.
I've played enough now that I can somewhat accurately guess and I do get kills, however I get killed a lot more. Often enemies kill me with one shot. Obviously if I have to range with my first couple shots I'm at a severe disadvantage here. I've read about custom gunsights, I searched the forum, but didn't find any specifically for the Pz IV's. The other tanks sites I find to be more helpful, but I'm still ranging. The Panzer sites don't make any sense to me. Please help.
TIA,
Rot
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You can't make custom sights for the tanks.
The German sights are actually the best optics in the game. The main triangle is the apparent size of a 2m target at 1000m. The smaller triangles are the apparent size of a 1m target. Using this, you can mathematically calculate the range of a target of a known size based on the ratio of the apparent size of the target relative to the size of the triangle.
Google "Zeiss Panzer sight" its the first hit.
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:rock TankAce, great site and great write up. Thanks for sharing the info.
:cheers:
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The German sights are actually the best optics in the game. The main triangle is the apparent size of a 2m target at 1000m. The smaller triangles are the apparent size of a 1m target. Using this, you can mathematically calculate the range of a target of a known size based on the ratio of the apparent size of the target relative to the size of the triangle.
Google "Zeiss Panzer sight" its the first hit.
Yes indeed. The German sights are the best in the game, no doubt. It is good to see that HTC modeled the quality of the optics and not just the sight reticule. Truthfully though, I think HTC has given the other countries too much credit especially the US tanks. Once you learn the "Mili-Radian" formula, and are able to compute it in your head without looking up the dimensions of the enemy tank in the sights, at the worst your second shot will be on target. I took the time to look up each GV's dimension in AH and made a spread sheet. I used to have to look up each tank (if I had the time), but now I know the basics and like I said... usually at worst the second shot is on target. Doesnt mean I get the kill, it just means I have the enemy tank zeroed in. :aok
You can use the length, width, or height to compute the ranges. The height is the most difficult to use in AH to gauge distance so I usually use the length/width or the ratios when they are facing me at an angle other than perfectly parallel or perpendicular.
For instance, if *any* of the M4's or T34's are directly facing you and they are half as big as the base on the big triangle (or they fill up the base of a small triangle), that tank is 1500 yards away give or take 75 yards. If the enemy tank is a Panther and it is "2 mils wide" (half the base of the large triangle or the full length of the base of a small triangle), then it is roughly 1875 yards away give or take a few yards. When the Tiger is "2 mils" wide it is roughly 2000 yards away. If the M8 is "2 mils" wide, it is just shy of 1400 yards out. Again, these are all enemy gv's facing you perfectly parallel.
Be able to identify the enemy tank, know the dimensions of the enemy tank (or be able to look them up quickly, this is where spreadsheets are good), gauge the size of it as close as possible in the "Mili-Radian" sight, dial it in and then send your love down range.
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Here you are!
http://www.75thguards.com/ww2online/downloads/Zheriz_Ziess_Sight_Guide.pdf
This explains simply and effectively how the German Zeiss sights work in game for us.
edit: spelling :confused:
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I prefer the German sights and the T-34/85's sight.
That said, I really, really suck in tanks nowadays.
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Unless you are one of our resident "GV Gods" such as Butcher, Flk4, Wappo, etc, you are going to find that you have to fire at least a round or two to range your target. I also use mainly the Panzer, Panther, and T34/85 because of this sight. If anything, ask on range or in the text buffer and if someone is nice enough (which is rare when 5-6 guys are tryin to kill the same baddie) they may give ya a shout out on what range they think the baddie in question is at and then u can go from there.
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Unless you are one of our resident "GV Gods" such as Butcher, Flk4, Wappo, etc, you are going to find that you have to fire at least a round or two to range your target. I also use mainly the Panzer, Panther, and T34/85 because of this sight. If anything, ask on range or in the text buffer and if someone is nice enough (which is rare when 5-6 guys are tryin to kill the same baddie) they may give ya a shout out on what range they think the baddie in question is at and then u can go from there.
"GV Gods".... LOL! LOLOLOLOL!!!!! The absolute best shot in AH is by far dr7. Most of the rest are panty waste camp tards who think that being able to land XYZ number of kills while camping the spawn point inside 1000 yards = "skillz". There are even a few who play their own trumpet and would like everyone to think they are all that, they know who they are.
Also, keep in mind that the T34/85 has LESS AP ability than the M4/76mm (M18 too), Panzer IV H, Tiger, Panther, Firefly, and King Tiger. Also, you can see the enemy target much further out in a Panzer IV H thanks to MUCH better optics. Oh, and the trajectory is flatter too. I'm not even certain what the Soviets used for a formula (if any) with their improved sight on the T34/85.
If you learn the German "Mili-Radian" technique, you wont need to rely on anyone else for ranging. Period. If you want to rule the battlefield then *learn* the sight (formula) and then up a Tiger or Panther (or King Tiger) and keep your distance (1800 yards +) and lay waste to anything that you can see. Get in to a blocking position between a town and a spawn, get a squaddie on either flank for protection, and you win the day! Just dont camp, resist the urge to circle jerk with the rest of the campers.
The Firefly has the best zoom in AH (3x-6x), but the lack of numbers in the reticule can sometimes lead to a bit of confusion thanks to the powerful recoil of the 17 Pdr gun. It certainly is not an easy sight to range with.
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"GV Gods".... LOL! LOLOLOLOL!!!!! The absolute best shot in AH is by far dr7. Most of the rest are panty waste camp tards who think that being able to land XYZ number of kills while camping the spawn point inside 1000 yards = "skillz". There are even a few who play their own trumpet and would like everyone to think they are all that, they know who they are.
Lol, beat me to the punch :lol. But yes, Dr7 was the best GV'er by a fairly significant margine when I left, although even he needed to fine-tune the range at long distances. I mean its not like a camp, where the targets spawn up within 800yds of each other at a known range.
If you learn the German "Mili-Radian" technique, you wont need to rely on anyone else for ranging. Period. If you want to rule the battlefield then *learn* the sight (formula) and then up a Tiger or Panther (or King Tiger) and keep your distance (1800 yards +) and lay waste to anything that you can see. Get in to a blocking position between a town and a spawn, get a squaddie on either flank for protection, and you win the day! Just dont camp, resist the urge to circle jerk with the rest of the campers.
One other thing I would say, don't rely purely on the number from the mili-radian sight. When I was playing, my gut feel usually got me to within 300yds on the first round. So, check the mili-radian sight, compare to what you think it is, and make your decision from there. But if its significantly different, the mili-radian sight will be the one closer to the correct range unless you did it wrong.
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you do know that dr7 camps just as much as any other gv'er--how do think he lands so many kills--but yes he is a good shot-he can pretty much range you in a second or three-i'm a knight--and he was a knight when he landed 135 kills
dr7.
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you do know that dr7 camps just as much as any other gv'er--how do think he lands so many kills--but yes he is a good shot-he can pretty much range you in a second or three-i'm a knight--and he was a knight when he landed 135 killsdr7.
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He camps his fair share yes. However, he isn't afraid to roll up to the skirmish line either. That can't be said for every "tank god". LOL! That term still cracks me up. :rofl
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The link I posted shows exactly how to use the German tank sights. More importantly it does allow for an extremely accurate hit % on the first shot. Period. It works!
While you can and do, get better at guessing the range over time playing, I just posted how exactly to do it. No guessing!
Why did everyone appear to ignore the link, when it answers the exact question that the OP posted? :rolleyes:
edit: Here is the link again http://www.75thguards.com/ww2online/downloads/Zheriz_Ziess_Sight_Guide.pdf
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The link I posted shows exactly how to use the German tank sights. More importantly it does allow for an extremely accurate hit % on the first shot. Period. It works!
While you can and do, get better at guessing the range over time playing, I just posted how exactly to do it. No guessing!
Why did everyone appear to ignore the link, when it answers the exact question that the OP posted? :rolleyes:
edit: Here is the link again http://www.75thguards.com/ww2online/downloads/Zheriz_Ziess_Sight_Guide.pdf
I took the official measurements of all the gv's in AH and applied the formula to get a chart based on SAE measurements. I will be glad to share it with people. Does anyone have a way to link it, or post it on their website.
If the custodians of the AH Trainer's website was interested in updating they could post it there. Ditto goes for the tank info chart and weapons damage (weapon projectile strength) info I've made from scratch. There is a ton of player made stuff (Looshy has some stuff as well) that could be posted on the AH Trainer's website... but it is stuck in 2005 mode and that is another topic of discussion.
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but it is stuck in 2005 mode
They know it and as far as I know they are working on it. :)
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On topic: When the new gunsights appeared I immediately did the maths and the charts to fully utilize the German gunsights.
But interestingly I found myself to be just as, and often even more effective by going just by my gut feeling for the initial distance. Probably in part because it required less concious thinking and estimating, but then I'm having plenty of practice compared to the average AH player. Someone with less experience might benefit more from it...
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The link I posted shows exactly how to use the German tank sights. More importantly it does allow for an extremely accurate hit % on the first shot. Period. It works!
While you can and do, get better at guessing the range over time playing, I just posted how exactly to do it. No guessing!
Why did everyone appear to ignore the link, when it answers the exact question that the OP posted? :rolleyes:
edit: Here is the link again http://www.75thguards.com/ww2online/downloads/Zheriz_Ziess_Sight_Guide.pdf
Well, I went there and printed out MK, thank you very much for the link. :salute
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They know it and as far as I know they are working on it. :)
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On topic: When the new gunsights appeared I immediately did the maths and the charts to fully utilize the German gunsights.
But interestingly I found myself to be just as, and often even more effective by going just by my gut feeling for the initial distance. Probably in part because it required less concious thinking and estimating, but then I'm having plenty of practice compared to the average AH player. Someone with less experience might benefit more from it...
I hope so. I've offered as I'm sure you have as well to share a lot of information for any and everyone to have access to, it would be good for people to reference. Most people have no clue that the British 60 pdr rockets are the best air to ground rockets in the game and the 8 of them on a Mossi or Tiff = over 400 lbs more damage than 2/500lb bombs. Handy to know when pounding a hanger, shore battery, or a ship. Likewise, most people do not know the M4/75mm does more HE damage to a town when compared to a Tiger using just the main gun alone (M4/75mm = 178dmg X 15 rds a min = 2670 dmg vs Tiger's 88mm = 234 dmg x 8.5 rds a min = 1989 dmg)!!! Now add in the Calliope rockets, the lack of risking perks, and it is real easy to see who the king of pounding a town is. :aok
I agree, the "gut" feeling is still a better starting point than doing the mathematical formula for each engagement. I set my sights to 1000 yards and adjust from there using the standby for M4's, T34's, and Panzer's: 4 mils from side = 1600 yards away; if 2 mils wide while facing = 1600 yards away; and when facing 1/4th or 3/4th towards me and is 3 mils wide = 1600 yards away. The KT, Tiger, and Panther are all larger than the "stand by". The 1600 yards is the general distance while the actual distance varies from (4 mils from side) 1650yd for the T34, 1640yd for the M4, and 1617 yd for the Pzr IV. While facing the front of the enemy tank, if 2 mils wide the T34 is actually 1625yd, the M4 is 1460yd, and the Pzr IV is 1800yd.
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I agree, the "gut" feeling is still a better starting point than doing the mathematical formula for each engagement. I set my sights to 1000 yards and adjust from there using the standby for M4's, T34's, and Panzer's: 4 mils from side = 1600 yards away; if 2 mils wide while facing = 1600 yards away; and when facing 1/4th or 3/4th towards me and is 3 mils wide = 1600 yards away. The KT, Tiger, and Panther are all larger than the "stand by". The 1600 yards is the general distance while the actual distance varies from (4 mils from side) 1650yd for the T34, 1640yd for the M4, and 1617 yd for the Pzr IV. While facing the front of the enemy tank, if 2 mils wide the T34 is actually 1625yd, the M4 is 1460yd, and the Pzr IV is 1800yd.
That's way more thinking than I do :D
I don't even conciously notice how many mils a target is wide or high, or how many mil's I'm leading and so on. My initial estimations are only based on the size of the target presenting itself, without comparing it to the marks on the gunsight at all. If we could change gunsights in tanks just like we can in planes, I only would put in a few basic dots for reference - similar to the simple "dot'o'death' gunsight I'm using in planes. Trying to use more than juts a basic mark tends to hamper my aim, as I'm starting to "think" too much about it.
Use the Force... :noid
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I've always found the panzer sights to be the best. Part is probably that I am in a panzer most of the time though.
For me I find I can set the sight to a specific distance and manually correct farther or shorter distances with kinda that "gut" feeling several of you have mentioned. Using the sight essentially gives me much less guesswork to do. During a spawn battle almost always set the sights to actual range and then aim slightly lower or higher depending on the "usually" slight varations in distance to target.
In the TigerII I often use the sight as essentially intended because it can afford to take a hit or two and I really really dont want to miss with the slow reload time.
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Yesterday I was in a Panzer Mk IV F/2 working at A53, I went to the town and used up all of my HE and then proceeded to set up outside of town about 1000 yards and do a blocking action against inbound enemy tanks and FLAK from their off base vehicle spawn. As the enemy gv's rolled in I was able to get hits on inbound T34's and Panzers on either the first or second shot every time using my chart. The furthest hit was 2800 yards and the closest was 1200. I ended up with 8 kills when I was finally taken out by a T34 at 1000 yards or so that was able to get me from my flank, he spawned from the field. All in all it was a fun time playing the cat and mouse game from the longer ranges, it only would been better if I were in a Panther but then I would not have earned almost 20 perks even after getting "killed" in my Mk IV F/2. :)
Point being is once the sight is learned and it becomes a "system" then the user gets the full benefit of the sight. By no means am I a William Tell, but this sight sure closes the gap for the average player like me. I've not taken the time to learn the T34/85 tank sight but I know that too is set up the same way. That is just another example of how the Soviets learned from the Germans in WWII. ;)
I've just been contacted by someone "in the know" from the AH Trainer's website and I will again offer all I have to help with player accessible data. Weapons, tank info, German "mili-radian" tank sight ranging charts, etc.
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I honestly don't even think about it in terms of meters or yards. My thought process, when I think about it at all, is "k, lets see...held down the key long enough. Check. Dial-thingy moved about yay-far. Check. And Mr. Triangle moved down by that much. Check. All right, we're in buisiness, lets shoot this mo-fo!"
And loon, I would love to have that chart. You wanna email it to me?
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I honestly don't even think about it in terms of meters or yards. My thought process, when I think about it at all, is "k, lets see...held down the key long enough. Check. Dial-thingy moved about yay-far. Check. And Mr. Triangle moved down by that much. Check. All right, we're in buisiness, lets shoot this mo-fo!"
And loon, I would love to have that chart. You wanna email it to me?
Emails. I need emails and I will forward the mili-radian chart and some other stuff. That goes for anyone. :) :aok
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Emails. I need emails and I will forward the mili-radian chart and some other stuff. That goes for anyone. :) :aok
[I couldn't edit previous post with an "update", hence the quote]
The first batch of emails has been sent. I've sent out the AH mili-radian chart for the German tank sights, a tank reference chart, and a very recently updated weapon projectile damage chart.
I'm working on a tutorial on "how" to use the mili-radian sight, but in the short term the link provided above by MK-84 does a good enough job.
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[again, unable to edit previous post]
Second batch of emails with the spreadsheets outbound.
Please send me a PM if any more of you want the info. Also, those of you who have it please feel free to share. :aok
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For me I find I can set the sight to a specific distance and manually correct farther or shorter distances with kinda that "gut" feeling several of you have mentioned. Using the sight essentially gives me much less guesswork to do. During a spawn battle almost always set the sights to actual range and then aim slightly lower or higher depending on the "usually" slight varations in distance to target.
Would you expand upon setting the sight? I just started reading the linked article posted here re: mil-radian. I knew there had to be more to this sight as it has the least amt. of detail from the gunner view.
Will repost after finishing the article to keep from continuing to look totally noobish.