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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: KG45 on March 23, 2009, 08:05:02 PM

Title: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: KG45 on March 23, 2009, 08:05:02 PM

the topic came up in another forum i frequent. i'm sure it's been tried.

but curious as to why the concept for use in cars never took off, so to speak.

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: Tec on March 23, 2009, 08:07:15 PM

I would imagine size, cooling, and cost all come into play.

But here's a tri 5 with a Merlin :D

(http://www.rodshop.com.au/projects/55proj103_4.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIj2GVfua84 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIj2GVfua84)

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: Ghosth on March 24, 2009, 02:18:51 AM

Well I could be full of BS here, but I think its partly to do with where and how its mounted, and airflow.

Radial engine is designed to be mounted flat on a firewall, with cylinder heads projecting out for cooling. Its basically round, going on a basically round fuselage. And the output is connected to a prop so simple, easy, effective power transfer.   Oil will drain into lower cylinder heads on most models that I've heard of, so the prop needs to be "walked" around before starting.

Now lets look at a car.

You can't have it mounted like on a plane in front, or you wouldn't be able to see over the cylinder heads.
The other thread showed a small one mounted on a cycle, but it really isn't ideal, as the airflow is 90 degrees off for optimal cooling. To put that size of a radial in a car would be possible, but you'd still have a very large hump to try to see over.

On a car it would almost have to be mounted horizontal, the drive would have to go through a 90 degree change of direction, with the resulting loss of power, efficiency, etc. Airflow would have to somehow be ducted around each cylinder head from the hood, down and around. Its the exact opposite of the same motor mounted in a plane. Lots of problems, lots of issues with the drive shaft, power train, etc.

One option would  need a body shaped almost like a plane, with 4 very tall wheels. Driver is perched up above like in a plane, to see over the top.  Even then the drive shaft comes off the wrong side, and still somehow has to cut right through the whole works to reach the differential.

The only way I really see one working, is as a rear mounted engine, directly coupled to a generator. You won't get as good of cooling as you do in a plane though, because instead of being mounted directly behind a huge fan, its mounted behind a generator.  But power from the generator could run electric motors in all 4 wheels. Even then your going to have airflow and heating issues, as some heads will be getting more air, and thus running cooler than others. But noise and and drive train issues would be better.

Radial engines are a specific solution for a specific application, and really are not practical anywhere else.

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: AWwrgwy on March 24, 2009, 05:44:48 AM

Shermans used air-cooled, single row radials because they were plentiful at the time.


wrongway

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: stephen on March 24, 2009, 05:50:27 AM

Radial engines are made to run at hi rpm's for a greater lenth of time, and though maxda claims to have a radial, its layout is wildly diffrent then what your refering to here.

Shermans had a problem foiling plugs for the above mentiond reason.....Hey somone post a picture of that chopper with a radial, I know its out there...

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: edog1977 on March 24, 2009, 07:33:33 AM

Quote from: stephen on March 24, 2009, 05:50:27 AM

and though maxda claims to have a radial, its layout is wildly diffrent then what your refering to here.

Mazda makes a rotary or Wankle enigne, which don't have cylinders in the traditional sense.  I don't belive Mazda has ever claimed it was a radial.  In any case they sure do sound sweet.

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: Kotari on March 24, 2009, 08:12:03 AM

Radial chopper:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUx35zuI5GI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUx35zuI5GI)

Thats a beast for sure, note how fast it revs up  :devil :rock

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: Jappa52 on March 24, 2009, 08:24:05 AM

Radial car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2V7B7-gdRA&NR=1

 :D

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: Angus on March 24, 2009, 09:41:10 AM

An example of a vehicle running on a radial is the LVT.  250 hp continental in the one who was my ride.
And it deed need severe cranking around before the start because of the lubrication. It was done with musclepower and a shaft.

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: WWhiskey on March 24, 2009, 09:48:39 AM

(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/WWhiskey/1022383629_674d1ad0ff.jpg)

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: WWhiskey on March 24, 2009, 09:49:50 AM

Quote from: Tec on March 23, 2009, 08:07:15 PM

I would imagine size, cooling, and cost all come into play.

But here's a tri 5 with a Merlin :D

(http://www.rodshop.com.au/projects/55proj103_4.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIj2GVfua84 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIj2GVfua84)

thats not a radial engine

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: APDrone on March 24, 2009, 01:50:39 PM

Well, if cooling is an issue, make it liquid cooled and toss in a radiator.

I suspect, however, the added weight for all the plumbing would be horrendous.

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: Tec on March 24, 2009, 03:38:51 PM

Quote from: WWhiskey on March 24, 2009, 09:49:50 AM

thats not a radial engine

Thanks for pointing out the obvious.  Now go back and notice the "But.

Title: Re: what would be limiting factors of using a radial engine for auto use?
Post by: phatzo on March 25, 2009, 12:23:01 AM

Quote from: Tec on March 23, 2009, 08:07:15 PM

I would imagine size, cooling, and cost all come into play.

But here's a tri 5 with a Merlin :D

(http://www.rodshop.com.au/projects/55proj103_4.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIj2GVfua84 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIj2GVfua84)

can beat aussie inginuity (insanity) heres some more
(http://74.54.120.132/dbbp/coolest/5000cc.jpg)
2 cylinders cur off the end of a merlin and supercharged