Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Rich46yo on March 23, 2009, 10:41:32 PM
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Looking at this months LW stats I figured I'd throw some numbers out for discussion.
K/Ds. Some higher eny airplanes post really good K/Ds, all things considered, simply by attracting expereinced sticks who want more challenge.
This month the Yak-9U has a 1.09 compared to the LA-7s 1.08. Surprised? not really, pretty much an accurate reflection month by month.
The P-47-D11 is posting a K/D of 1.32, leading all the Jugs, and beating the 8 eny Mustang which is at 1.15. P-47-D25 k/d 0.95. D40 = 0.90. "N"= 0.72. Course the razorback is the darling of some good squads and some good jug sticks.
Nothing surprises me with the 109s. Even the F-4 is at 0.96. G-14=1.12, G2= 0.92, G6=1.05, K-4=1.38. The Spit-16 so far this month? = 1.10 . :huh
KI-61 is shooting a 1.18 while the KI-84 is posting a K/D of 1.25. Even the Zero is posting a respectable 0.90 .
The C-205 is at 1.05. The F4U-1A is a 1.26. The FM2 is at 0.90 in LW even tho its as early war as you can get.
The 190-A5 is at 1.23 . Not bad. Especially considering the Niki is at 1.19 . The P-38J is posting a 1.46. Even the P-40E is posting a 0.80, not far from the LA-5s 0.84 .
The Spit-4 is 1.18 LW Tour 110. The 8 is at 1.00 . 14= 1.37.
Its really at a point where Im more leery of certain high eny airplanes then the low ones. Lately Ive been enamored of the Yak-9U. No Im not clearing out the sky with it but I have found it to be an airplane that can enter any low eny fight, even at bad odds, and fight hard. Then getting you home to fight another day. In real life the Yak-9 was a great, great design as well and I have found it to be a great higher eny addition to this game.
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Honestly, I surprised the 51 is over 1.0
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these figures mean relatively little rich,
some planes like the 16 and p51 get used MUCH more by very unskilled pilots. You have to remember that it is largely down to the pilot and not the planes.
I could get my whole squad to fly a certain unpopular ride and make it's stats look real skeewered.
I treat every plane with the same amount of respect, a good stick in an uber ride is just as much a threat as an excellent stick in an older ride and you don't know which is which until your in the tower. I'm very happy that AH doesn't have enemy name tags though, whilst you can figure out certain peoples flying styles, people can't just factor in who they KNOW is a good stick and target them over everyone else.
As for the yak it is a great little plane, I've taken a little to the 9T the cannon is a monster, i've been improving with the K4 tater and the yak's cannon is even easier IMO, plus you can kill auto acks with one round from over 1k out ;). I hope the yak3 is the next uber late war ride to be added as it was more manouvreable and quicker. Plus trikky will be back to fly it and i'll have someone to look out for in a yak again.
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Plus trikky will be back to fly it and i'll have someone to look out for in a yak again.
I feel insulted somehow :O
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I feel insulted somehow :O
well you sure as hell cant fly a yak, maybe a spit 9 ;)
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The quality of pilots is one issue with the high eny planes. Another is how often they are employed as attack aircraft. Hitting flak and CAP infested airfields and fleets tends to pork a planes' stats and most of those planes you mention are less commonly employed in that role than the lower ENY stuff.
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well you sure as hell cant fly a yak, maybe a spit 9 ;)
Well its been a while we didn't fight I guess, I droped the spit several monthes ago.
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The aircraft makes up far more of the fight than most give it credit for. Else, the "really good sticks" would be flying higher ENY aircraft and achieving the same or nearly the same results.
The Spit16 is by far the most all around capable aircraft in the game when it come to air to air combat and there is a reason %99 of the players point to it for news guys to learn on (which in unfortunate, imo), and the only real thing holding it back is its lack of range. The same can be said for the La7. The Nik2 is a very capable and forgiving aircraft with an awesome amount of firepower and a very good range. The P51D is not an easy plane to fly and if flown out of its performance envelope it is not much more than a P40E. In the case of the P51D, I think it still has a 1< K/D ratio because those who really know how to fly it land boat loads of kills with it on a higher than average basis.
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Honestly, I surprised the 51 is over 1.0
Just a gut feeling but in the last 3 to 4 months Ive noticed a lot of older, better sticks going back to the Mustang-D. When used in its envelope it can be effective, most of all with wingies. I dont fly it myself but have noticed more disciplined flying of it in the last few months. Here let me go back and see if my gut feeling lives in reality.
Tour 110= 1.15
Tour 109= 1.15
Tour 108= 1.15
Tour 107= 1.08
Tour 106= 1.09
Tour 105= 1.13
Tour 104= 1.07
Wow! My "gut feeling" was actually right. How right? Or in what way right? Im not sure. But I thought Ive noticed a little higher caliber P-51D flying in the last few months.
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I think you'll notice that many of the high K/D ratio aircraft happen to be the aircraft that are most effectively used as BnZ fighters. Many people consider BnZ fighting to be somewhat "safer" than TnB for instance.
It's only natural that an aircraft which is best used by entering the combat area with several thousand feet of altitude advantage and most commonly employs BnZ attacks to pick off enemies at much lower E states should have a better K/D ratio.
I really don't think it has that much to do with attracting better sticks...
Just my opinion though, feel free to have your own.
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these figures mean relatively little rich,
some planes like the 16 and p51 get used MUCH more by very unskilled pilots. You have to remember that it is largely down to the pilot and not the planes.
He wasn't saying that K/D ratios speak to the quality of the aircraft. In fact, he was saying exactly what you said with "it is largely down to the pilot and not the planes."
FYI, the N1K's K/D ratio decreased as soon as it was updated, and it has remained at this lower ratio since.
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Oh no, I agree with you. At least the B&Z'ers tend to fly "faster" airplanes. Even with the higher eny aircraft you'll probably find speed to be almost essential to a good score, for instance the 109K-4. I flew it for a few times this tour and it is indeed a monster. Its not only fast but its "sneaky fast" which means it accelerates well.
For that matter most of the better high eny fighters have some aspects of speed, at least average and/or better then average, that allows them to compete very well. For instance the P-38 and its rate of climb or dive abilities. The C-205 with its decent performance. Certainly the 190s....ect
So actually I agree with you Dave. Further I'd also state that a lot of these fighters generally aren't hindered with dropping bombs. Even if you make it to a target with bombs the very action of diving and releasing them can put you in a bad tactical position. Most of all if you dont have a wingie, and assuming you survived all the ack and flack.
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I don't think you can read much into those numbers other then plane type is largely irrelevant to score generically. Most good sticks can work the numbers game if so inclined in any ride. Those pilots who focus exclusively on lower ENY rides don't really offset the overall math since for every "STEVE" in a pony you have 5 guys named "lawndart" (not the in game lawndart). In addition many guys alter plane choice based on the "current realities" in the arena.
Just looking at my current stats...
In the MWA...
SBD 20-6
A-20 13-7
109(s) 8-7
Now since you can't make the argument that the SBD is a formidable opponent its pretty obvious I tend to fly it when I'm more likely to only be at 1-2 odds or less. Once the thing gets bogged down in a mess of red the gun package just can't cope even if the pilot can. The flip side is that I don't fly the 109 at much less then 1 on the horde. So even though the 109 has "worse" numbers then both of the others you can't argue its not the better plane (unless the A-20 has WW or Cobia in it)...
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Well certainly individual stats are skewed with individual foibles. I know mine are.
And no doubt community stats are skewed some too. Statistics, like score, are easy to manipulate in the game.
But I still think the stats back up what I say and that certain high eny fighters are far more likely to have experienced sticks on-board. And that the experience/ability level is the main reason these fighters have a better score then their performance says they should.
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Thats the underlying issue, who defines "should"? Lets look at 2 early war planes the Hawk75 in French service and the Buffalo in Finnish service. The Hawk pilots dominated the germans over France with a combined record of 281-19 (obviously you have potential for significant over claiming...but the losses are only 19. Numerous germans like Molders went down at the hands of the Hawk so at worst your in the 150+/19 range. The Finnish record in the Buffalo is equally impressive. Obviously the faster plane will control the fight from an even start and a
double superior plane will win if pilot skills are even and an outside force doesn't intervene...however the pilot is 80%+ of the equation.
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however the pilot is 80%+ of the equation.
While I agree I have to point out , at least in real life, "doctrine" also plays a key role. Case in point would be the rules of engagement that limited the Mig-21 against the F-4 in Vietnam. Fact is the Reds just didn't trust their pilots and kept them slaved to air controllers and restrictive doctrine that didn't utilize the strengths of the aircraft. The Arabs were famous for this to, or "infamous". I always wondered if the Soviets set themselves up for failure against the Finns, in the same way, even before a shot was fired.
By the same token western air forces have always dominated not just due to our talent level but also because we allowed doctrine to improvise and flourish. We didn't worry about our interceptors having to much fuel and the pilot using it to fly to Russia with. Our air doctrine was setup for winning and evolving.....but I'm off on a tangent....
Were talking Aces High here. ;)
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according to the current stats, P40E kills the crap out of 51Ds and Spit16s :O
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Honestly, I surprised the 51 is over 1.0
+1. Plenty of good 51 sticks, but far, far more n00bs.
Steve, 412th and OLDemon cant make up for em all. ;)
The Yaks, I would say, I "fear" the most. Actually, I try to avoid them in furballs. It is a very capable fighter and the light ammo load almost ensures that a decent cartoon pilot is driving it since most newer players are horrible shots (present company excluded since Im still a horrible shot).
1v1, sure. But if we're all going to go around in a circle taking cheap shots in a horde, I'd rather the Yak not be saddled up on me the whole time. ;)
Thinking about it, I'm more wary of Yak9U's than I am of Spit 16's. The 37mm Yak? Not so much. Performance falls off enough to allow room for exploitation.
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I agree completely about the yak.
Yaks, 109's and the 152 all get my immediate attention and respect. You just assume that the guy flying it is an "ace" until he shows otherwise.
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I agree completely about the yak.
Yaks, 109's and the 152 all get my immediate attention and respect. You just assume that the guy flying it is an "ace" until he shows otherwise.
I concur completely. Past experience tells me to do the same with Yaks & 109's. The 152 can be a bit of a sleeper though, because it's easy to mistake it for just another 190 (I tend to initially assume all 190's are Dora's) until you're already engaged. Then you have to rethink your tactics real quick.
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Been flying the yak all tour. Have made the most of my kills in it. Coincedence? I think not! :D :noid
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I suck at this game regardless of the craft I'm in. Some now even claim "I have an ego." You cannot win, so I just fly to have fun, like I have for the almost 7 years I've played the game.
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How dare you have fun.
How DARE you...
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Im suprised the 38J Doesn't have a K/D of liek .05 everyone picks it in any fight its a fat big target.
It might be that noobs dont fly it cause L comes after J on the list. :)
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Im suprised the 38J Doesn't have a K/D of liek .05 everyone picks it in any fight its a fat big target.
It might be that noobs dont fly it cause L comes after J on the list. :)
Look at the P-38J in the Mid-War arena. You'll see a perfect example of how a 2-3 pilots can really skew a plane's stats.
ack-ack
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Grizz and I totally skewed the 152's stats for (I think) this Feb's LW tour. The squad had something like 20% of LW's K4 kills too.
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Grizz and I totally skewed the 152's stats for (I think) this Feb's LW tour. The squad had something like 20% of LW's K4 kills too.
Ya think? I remember one night a couple of weeks ago when Grizz seemed to be everywhere. Not just everywhere, but higher everywhere. You two clowns have me so spooked when I see a 152 that I just go ahead and hit <Enter.. Enter..> just to save time. :D
:salute
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:lol bail!!
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P47s attract my attention. Not because of the "oo free kill" tag. They're some great P47 sticks that will amaze alot of players ( can't recall since i haven't flown in little into a month ). Always pay close attention to those P47s Co Alt or higher, they are the dangerous ones. :)
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Look at the P-38J in the Mid-War arena. You'll see a perfect example of how a 2-3 pilots can really skew a plane's stats.
ack-ack
Which is why I've ruined the 38G stats completely! :)
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Then theres also the fact that the P-38 is a very dangerous fighter that, if flown right, can compete and beat anything in the game.
Its another example of the mid-range eny fighters that are pretty much competent at everything and sparkle at one or two things. The P-38 has its climb/dive abilities as well as its gunnery. 4 0.50s and a 20mm Hispano, all in the nose, is a lethal combination. Throw its range into that equation.
So, anyways, I'm starting to think the airplanes that really "make the game" are the 20 to 30 eny ones. I might only scratch the occasional kill or two out of my Yak but at least I feel I accomplished something.
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P47s attract my attention. Not because of the "oo free kill" tag. They're some great P47 sticks that will amaze alot of players ( can't recall since i haven't flown in little into a month ). Always pay close attention to those P47s Co Alt or higher, they are the dangerous ones. :)
You just described my first encounter with LYNX. I dropped in to help a countryman, and he casually whacked both of us. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't bother to set his Guiness down the whole time.
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You just described my first encounter with LYNX. I dropped in to help a countryman, and he casually whacked both of us. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't bother to set his Guiness down the whole time.
Yep, Hes incredable in that Yak. Imagine the perkies he makes in it?
I like upping Yaks with pure ATA in mind. In other words I fly everything else when in desperate defense or when allkinda red has allkinda alt. on me. The Yak-9U is a fighter I'll take the time to get some alt and speed up in order to furball.
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109-G6. :aok
That is all.
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You just described my first encounter with LYNX. I dropped in to help a countryman, and he casually whacked both of us. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't bother to set his Guiness down the whole time.
I doubt he is drinking Guiness. I bet he is a Watney's guy. ;)
Some aircraft are not given the gredit they deserve. I hear so often from people on how an aircraft is "bad" at something and they are so glued to those 1 or 2 negatives that they forget to look at the good attributes of an aircraft. Take the P40E (or P40B even), if taken up high and given the chance to get speed/E up there are few aircraft that can keep up with it in a attack dive. It is very stable and smooth at high speeds. No, it doesnt climb well (it does with E, though), it doesnt turn all that well (it does with E, though), it rolls above average at all but the slowest of speeds, and the guns seem to do rather well (some will debate that they are the best 6/.50's in the game). Combine all of those and when used within it's performance envelope it is a top notch aircraft. But, it takes patience and positioning to make happen and those are two things many dont want to take the time to learn or gain. The rules of air to air combat must be followed or else you are not only at a disadvantage, your at a REALLY BIG disadvantage in the P40E.
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The thing that kills me about the P-40E is the over-the-nose view for deflection shooting.
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Ya think? I remember one night a couple of weeks ago when Grizz seemed to be everywhere. Not just everywhere, but higher everywhere. You two clowns have me so spooked when I see a 152 that I just go ahead and hit <Enter.. Enter..> just to save time. :D
:salute
Oh gawd, aint that the truth! :(
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109-G6. :aok
That is all.
Its interesting. Between the Yak-9U in the MA, and me taking the C202 out in the DA just to diddly with the heads of the F4U4 and Spit 16 drivers - i'm really liking the 202. Its low and slow, a ballerina - it has no vices - low speed control ability is smooth and doesn't mush into the ground like heavier airframes. Yea the guns are sub-par - but its fun getting 10 second long tracking shots on Spit 16s and F4Us, must really screw with their ego. Tends to make them do stupid toejam too - and get into 50 cal range with the HE rounds.
Now if only I could get it to work in the MA...for the MA, certainly been delighted by the Mossi. 50% internal, single drop tank - get a good amount of E on it, and yea - just cherry your way to a nice retirement. But also enjoyable getting a nice turn fight rolling for 1 or 2 circles so long as you can pull lead by the end of it.
Wolf
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I do agree with the .202 being a potent little plane. Its tough to work with any friendlies around though -- assists abound.
Great for solo work.