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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: VonnHoltz on March 24, 2009, 01:34:46 PM

Title: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: VonnHoltz on March 24, 2009, 01:34:46 PM
That's correct.  The P-38 is documented with carrying 2-2000 lb bombs over Europe in Bodie's book 'The Lockheed P-38 Lightning'  on page 202 and 203, it states that 1 droop snoot P-38 J (had a bombardier) and other regular P-38 J's carried out a bombing mission with 2 of the P-38J's carrying 4000 lbs (2-2000 lbs)  of bombs.  Can we get this included as part of the ordinances of the P-38 in mid war?  Since this is historically correct.  What say HTC?
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Bodhi on March 24, 2009, 01:56:50 PM
It has been hashed over several times.  Doubtful it ever will happen in game.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: oakranger on March 24, 2009, 02:05:03 PM
i say get it, and perk it.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Motherland on March 24, 2009, 02:06:39 PM
It would appear that HTC doesn't model ordinance options unless they were used on several hundred aircraft.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: kamilyun on March 24, 2009, 02:15:16 PM
I'd love to see the B-38 with this loadout.  Whats more, it should have the option of 2x drones like all the other twin engined bombers in the game.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: oakranger on March 24, 2009, 02:15:36 PM
It would appear that HTC doesn't model ordinance options unless they were used on several hundred aircraft.

Then why do we have a B-25 with a 75mm?  It was my understanding that may pilots didn't used them because of the major recoil that violently shook the plane.  
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Motherland on March 24, 2009, 02:17:42 PM
Then why do we have a B-25 with a 75mm?  It was my understanding that may pilots didn't used them because of the major recoil that violently shook the plane.  
Well, according to wikipedia, 1000 B25H's were made. Even if 'many' of the crews didn't use them, that still would satisfy the 'several hundred' requirement.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Shuffler on March 24, 2009, 02:30:54 PM
1000S of 38J's were made :P
The 38 could also carry torps but I don't think any ever did other than tests.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: oakranger on March 24, 2009, 02:31:43 PM
Well, according to wikipedia, 1000 B25H's were made. Even if 'many' of the crews didn't use them, that still would satisfy the 'several hundred' requirement.

CC
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Bodhi on March 24, 2009, 06:19:58 PM
It would appear that HTC doesn't model ordinance options unless they were used on several hundred aircraft.

1000's of J's and L's were built.  All of them can carry 2 X 2000lb eggs.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 24, 2009, 06:37:58 PM
Well, according to wikipedia, 1000 B25H's were made. Even if 'many' of the crews didn't use them, that still would satisfy the 'several hundred' requirement.

Most of the regular AF units that were given the B-25H that were later withdrawn from service saw a second life with the 1st Air Commandos in the CBI theater.  Navy and Marines also used them but don't know if they withdrew them from service when the regular AAF units gave up theirs.


ack-ack
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: thedudee95 on March 24, 2009, 06:38:07 PM
Well, according to wikipedia, 1000 B25H's were made. Even if 'many' of the crews didn't use them, that still would satisfy the 'several hundred' requirement.
Lol you used wikipedia  :rofl
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: StokesAk on March 24, 2009, 06:42:16 PM
1000S of 38J's were made :P
The 38 could also carry torps but I don't think any ever did other than tests.

Yea i wish we had Torps the could torp the town.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Morpheus on March 24, 2009, 06:42:54 PM
i say get it, and perk it.


Perk it? For what? think about what you're saying.

Give me 3 good reasons to perk this plane and i'll give you a dozen... easy... as to why you're being silly.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Spikes on March 24, 2009, 06:51:53 PM
I'd like to see 4K on the 38 but only perked.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: uptown on March 24, 2009, 07:03:40 PM
I'd like to see it in the game, but don't see the need for a perk. The thing is a handful to fly now. Another 1000k added to that..............
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Motherland on March 24, 2009, 07:07:26 PM

Perk it? For what? think about what you're saying.

Give me 3 good reasons to perk this plane and i'll give you a dozen... easy... as to why you're being silly.
He means the ordinance loadout.

This would be a loadout that was used apparently very rarely, that would become the only bomb loadout used in the MA.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Treize69 on March 24, 2009, 07:13:06 PM
While we're at it, how about the loadout with 6x 500 pounders?
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: oakranger on March 24, 2009, 07:21:22 PM
He means the ordinance loadout.

This would be a loadout that was used apparently very rarely, that would become the only bomb loadout used in the MA.

Thx, having such a load out for a fighter was rare, nearly happen at best, for a p-38.  i do support it if it was possible. 
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: AWwrgwy on March 24, 2009, 07:54:12 PM
Yea i wish we had Torps the could torp the town.

Doesn't work.  I've tried.  They don't even hit the ground dropped from altitude.  I think torpedoes go poof after they fall x number of feet.


wrongway
(I want to sink a truck)
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 24, 2009, 08:33:39 PM
Doesn't work.  I've tried.  They don't even hit the ground dropped from altitude.  I think torpedoes go poof after they fall x number of feet.


wrongway
(I want to sink a truck)

It works.  There are old SAPP training films that I made showing how to properly drop torpedoes on a town.  Some of the other SAPP members (like Mensa) were so good that they could skip the torpedoe on the ground and take out a couple of buildings. 


ack-ack
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: oakranger on March 24, 2009, 08:37:11 PM
It works.  There are old SAPP training films that I made showing how to properly drop torpedoes on a town.  Some of the other SAPP members (like Mensa) were so good that they could skip the torpedoe on the ground and take out a couple of buildings. 


ack-ack

Can you still do that.  Or was it a glich that has been fixed?
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Wingnutt on March 24, 2009, 10:15:15 PM
It would appear that HTC doesn't model ordinance options unless they were used on several hundred aircraft.

cough 3 gun LA7
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Shuffler on March 24, 2009, 11:44:14 PM
Can you still do that.  Or was it a glich that has been fixed?

Only SAPP members can do it.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Guppy35 on March 25, 2009, 01:22:07 AM
That's correct.  The P-38 is documented with carrying 2-2000 lb bombs over Europe in Bodie's book 'The Lockheed P-38 Lightning'  on page 202 and 203, it states that 1 droop snoot P-38 J (had a bombardier) and other regular P-38 J's carried out a bombing mission with 2 of the P-38J's carrying 4000 lbs (2-2000 lbs)  of bombs.  Can we get this included as part of the ordinances of the P-38 in mid war?  Since this is historically correct.  What say HTC?


Quoting an e-mail from a 474th pilot who I correspond with now and then.  474th flew 38s in the ETO until the end of the war in Europe.

"We even carried two 2000 lb bombs a few times.  Had to use wooden sway bars that banged up the bird on bomb release
so we didn't do it often and 1k bombs were probably just as effective.  Both 2k bombs had to be dropped together-on pull out,
the bomb shackle would come off from g force."

I think his comment about 1K bombs probably being just as effective, speaks to how much of a priority adding 2K bombs to the 38 should be.

And for what it's worth, the 474th history has all their mission load outs and they didn't carry 1K bombs until November 44.  prior to that it was 500 pounders regularly.

So it's really not a mid-war bit, but a late in the game addition historically.  474th was a ground attack 38 group their entire time in the ETO so I'd suggest they are typical for ord carried.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Cooley on March 25, 2009, 02:10:20 AM
Wonder what the climb rate would be with them on  ?

That would be a fun little Tiger killa  :aok

Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: oakranger on March 25, 2009, 03:02:09 AM

Quoting an e-mail from a 474th pilot who I correspond with now and then.  474th flew 38s in the ETO until the end of the war in Europe.

"We even carried two 2000 lb bombs a few times.  Had to use wooden sway bars that banged up the bird on bomb release
so we didn't do it often and 1k bombs were probably just as effective.  Both 2k bombs had to be dropped together-on pull out,
the bomb shackle would come off from g force."

I think his comment about 1K bombs probably being just as effective, speaks to how much of a priority adding 2K bombs to the 38 should be.

And for what it's worth, the 474th history has all their mission load outs and they didn't carry 1K bombs until November 44.  prior to that it was 500 pounders regularly.

So it's really not a mid-war bit, but a late in the game addition historically.  474th was a ground attack 38 group their entire time in the ETO so I'd suggest they are typical for ord carried.

Wow, that sure must have been a tought bird to fly with a load like that.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Ratpack1 on March 25, 2009, 03:06:08 AM
How many weeks til we get it.  :rofl
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Morpheus on March 25, 2009, 05:50:01 AM
Thx, having such a load out for a fighter was rare, nearly happen at best, for a p-38.  i do support it if it was possible. 

So what would you perk it as? Attack or bomber? And how much? I know that plenty of players have bomber perks in excess of 20k or higher. Fighter the same.

The Ju87 didnt run around with the moab on it all of the time, but we have it, and its used in game very often. That's not perked.

The 38 would be just a slow B25 at that point, with no deffencive guns. A slug at best.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Cajunn on March 25, 2009, 06:25:07 AM
I'd like to see 4K on the 38 but only perked.

so everything that can carry over 2000lbs of bombs should be perked is what I understand when a statement like this is made.
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Cajunn on March 25, 2009, 06:36:08 AM


And for what it's worth, the 474th history has all their mission load outs and they didn't carry 1K bombs until November 44.  prior to that it was 500 pounders regularly.



IMO, I don't think the 500 pounder in the game is modeled to the destructive capability that this thing really had, I have seen the effects of a 500 pound bomb and it is very destructive. In reality hangers that were used in War 2 would not be able to withstand the blast of 1 500lb bomb. 
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: bongaroo on March 25, 2009, 10:06:47 AM
Would this require removal of my blender?  Seems to me I'd never get off the runway with all that extra weight!
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Mustaine on March 25, 2009, 10:10:26 AM
Told you all it is a BOMBER.





:p
Title: Re: P-38 carrying 2- 2000 lb bombs
Post by: Lusche on March 25, 2009, 10:17:21 AM
IMO, I don't think the 500 pounder in the game is modeled to the destructive capability that this thing really had, I have seen the effects of a 500 pound bomb and it is very destructive. In reality hangers that were used in War 2 would not be able to withstand the blast of 1 500lb bomb. 

Nor would town buildings or ammo bunkers be gunned down that easily by non-cannon planes or Wirbelwind. It's all about object settings and gameplay balance, not about the 500 lbs bomb itself.