Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: VansCrew1 on March 25, 2009, 07:03:10 PM
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Ok, ive got to say this. I was in history class today and we were talking about WW2. And i may be only 18 but im sure i know a hell of a lot more about WW2 in general then my teacher. But i was sitting there and seen that no one knew the answers to any of the questions.
It's sad that young people today dont know a lot about WW2 or probably dont care. I for one feel like people should learn about it while they can the generation of WW2 pilots/military is sadly not going to last much longer. And when that time comes it's just going to be another page in the history books.
I was just wondering if anyone is trying to preserve a peace of WW2 history. I myself has a grandfather that was in WW2, a B17 pilot with the 8th air force. And over the summer i picked his brain for info and we spend weeks going through all of his WW2 stuff he kept. I few items we found was his B17 pilots manual(great condition) his notes he took while he was in flight school. And tons of mission statements from him and his crew as well as other squads.
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Ok, ive got to say this. I was in history class today and we were talking about WW2. And i may be only 18 but im sure i know a hell of a lot more about WW2 in general then my teacher. But i was sitting there and seen that no one knew the answers to any of the questions.
It's sad that young people today dont know a lot about WW2 or probably dont care. I for one feel like people should learn about it while they can the generation of WW2 pilots/military is sadly not going to last much longer. And when that time comes it's just going to be another page in the history books.
I was just wondering if anyone is trying to preserve a peace of WW2 history. I myself has a grandfather that was in WW2, a B17 pilot with the 8th air force. And over the summer i picked his brain for info and we spend weeks going through all of his WW2 stuff he kept. I few items we found was his B17 pilots manual(great condition) his notes he took while he was in flight school. And tons of mission statements from him and his crew as well as other squads.
Mr GF was a crew chief for a B17 in the Eighth. "Taint a Bird" 42-30342 Her last mission was as part of "Operation Aphrodite."
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/skilless/TaintaBird2-1.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/skilless/TaintaBird-1.jpg)
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Ok, ive got to say this. I was in history class today and we were talking about WW2. And i may be only 18 but im sure i know a hell of a lot more about WW2 in general then my teacher. But i was sitting there and seen that no one knew the answers to any of the questions.
It's sad that young people today dont know a lot about WW2 or probably dont care. I for one feel like people should learn about it while they can the generation of WW2 pilots/military is sadly not going to last much longer. And when that time comes it's just going to be another page in the history books.
I was just wondering if anyone is trying to preserve a peace of WW2 history. I myself has a grandfather that was in WW2, a B17 pilot with the 8th air force. And over the summer i picked his brain for info and we spend weeks going through all of his WW2 stuff he kept. I few items we found was his B17 pilots manual(great condition) his notes he took while he was in flight school. And tons of mission statements from him and his crew as well as other squads.
Indeed. Luckily my History teacher knows a lot about WWII seeing as he was born during WWII, and he is Jewish so he studied it that much more. I don't ask him that much stuff, but when I do think of something he's the person I turn to.
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Ok, ive got to say this. I was in history class today and we were talking about WW2. And i may be only 18 but im sure i know a hell of a lot more about WW2 in general then my teacher. But i was sitting there and seen that no one knew the answers to any of the questions.
It's sad that young people today dont know a lot about WW2 or probably dont care. I for one feel like people should learn about it while they can the generation of WW2 pilots/military is sadly not going to last much longer. And when that time comes it's just going to be another page in the history books.
I was just wondering if anyone is trying to preserve a peace of WW2 history. I myself has a grandfather that was in WW2, a B17 pilot with the 8th air force. And over the summer i picked his brain for info and we spend weeks going through all of his WW2 stuff he kept. I few items we found was his B17 pilots manual(great condition) his notes he took while he was in flight school. And tons of mission statements from him and his crew as well as other squads.
I get this too in my classes, especially my NJROTC Class, and of the only two kids who actually have some knowledge or are interested in the subject, one is the biggest idiot I have ever met. The other, well, has been my friend since 2nd grade, and is known as 1sum41 in-game. ;)
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I am routinly disgusted by the people in my government class today and was by my history class last year. The level of ignorance was appaling. many were flaunting their lack of knowledge about these heroes. now there are a few like me who pay attention to the world and history, but there's just not enough. Thankfully i graduate this year and can leave my state soon. Hello USMC.
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I am routinly disgusted by the people in my government class today and was by my history class last year. The level of ignorance was appaling. many were flaunting their lack of knowledge about these heroes. now there are a few like me who pay attention to the world and history, but there's just not enough. Thankfully i graduate this year and can leave my state soon. Hello USMC.
Indeed. Personally, I can't wait till we talk about WWII in class. I know that we will spend a lot more time on it this year than we did last year, which I'm going to love.
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I think this lack of interest in WWII may be due to lack of any direct relatives being involved in the war in the first place. Most kids of this generation have grand parents that were kids of the baby boomers and maybe a great grandfather, great uncle, or great cousin who was involved.. My dad was in the German Army for the first 3 years of the war.. All my friends dad's or grandfathers served in WWII or Korea or even Vietnam.. While everything since the first Gulf War has been a sizable operation, it is nothing compared to the mobilizations and deployments
of WWII.. Some relatives really make it a point to tell their kids, grandkids, or great grandkids about this subject.. For others, most of these relatives are deceased or are in nursing homes..
There are obviously exceptions, although...
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I get this too in my classes, especially my NJROTC Class,
Hi, just wondering what does NJROTC stand for? I should probably know it but am drawing a blank.
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Hi, just wondering what does NJROTC stand for? I should probably know it but am drawing a blank.
Navy Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps.
Basically the High School ROTC.
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Ah ok thanks, join the "Young Marines" program when your ready for a step up. :devil
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Ah ok thanks, join the "Young Marines" program when your ready for a step up. :devil
I wish they had it :lol
I don't really get a choice, all that's at our High School ;)
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I got my Grandfathers stuff from WWII. Lets see, a germany army helmet, knife, maps, letters, food can...all German. OH, this is a chill. since he was a MP of the 3rd Army, his battalion librated 2 consentration camps. took a few photos too.
My wife side. Her mom uncle was capture on Dec 16, 1944. Yep, he was in the Ardan forest. While at camp he became friends with the German gurds and CO of the camp since he is a Volger German and speak german. When the camp was librated, the CO surrander his luger to him. still have it. Oh, the U.S. Army filmed it too.
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I got my Grandfathers stuff from WWII. Lets see, a germany army helmet, knife, maps, letters, food can...all German. OH, this is a chill. since he was a MP of the 3rd Army, his battalion librated 2 consentration camps. took a few photos too.
My wife side. Her mom uncle was capture on Dec 16, 1944. Yep, he was in the Ardan forest. While at camp he became friends with the German gurds and CO of the camp since he is a Volger German and speak german. When the camp was librated, the CO surrander his luger to him. still have it. Oh, the U.S. Army filmed it too.
That's cool
:salute
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My Great Uncle won a Bronze Star for actions after his B-17 was shot down over the Reich (He was the pilot). Unfortunately before I was old enough to understand, all of his old equipment, including the star, disappeared.
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My grandfather, an F6F pilot and Pearl survivor, unfortunately died before I was born. We still have much of his things, such as a Pilot log, diary, pictures, hat, maps, medals.
I am attempting to get access to the Diary to re-print it on computer for longer keeping, however it is well secured so as to avoid damage.
Sad to think how little some people care to know about such a large part of history.
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Actually it is not so diffrent from my generation. My Grandfather was a Sergent in the Somme during WWI. As I attended school the Great War was almost trivialized by the Second war, I remember the survivors as they disappeared, with changes in society and culture over shadowing the past. I am a Gulf War I vet, and our whole experience is almost completely discounted by the present group of pundit's. It is just a cycle, I remember the last Civil War vet dying.... time passes and the past is lost on the present generation. They were making the same complaint in Rome and Carthage.
Regards,
Kevin
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All of history is important.
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A good friend of mine is a teacher at Georg Junior High in Springdale/AR. Once in a year, her students write me letters and ask me about Germany, the holocaust, Nazis and what my grandparents did during WWII. I answer to every letter. Well, I am 40 years old and didn't have any personal experience about WWII but I have many info's from my grandparents I can share. I even drove up to the KZ Dachau by Munich to get some info material (books, DVD, posters), that I sent over to Springdale.
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I was in high school in the early 60's and we barely learned anything about WW1 and WW2. We learned what brought on the 2 wars and what happened after they ended but zilch of the happening during the wars.
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Ok, ive got to say this. I was in history class today and we were talking about WW2. And i may be only 18 but im sure i know a hell of a lot more about WW2 in general then my teacher. But i was sitting there and seen that no one knew the answers to any of the questions.
It's sad that young people today dont know a lot about WW2 or probably dont care. I for one feel like people should learn about it while they can the generation of WW2 pilots/military is sadly not going to last much longer. And when that time comes it's just going to be another page in the history books.
I was just wondering if anyone is trying to preserve a peace of WW2 history. I myself has a grandfather that was in WW2, a B17 pilot with the 8th air force. And over the summer i picked his brain for info and we spend weeks going through all of his WW2 stuff he kept. I few items we found was his B17 pilots manual(great condition) his notes he took while he was in flight school. And tons of mission statements from him and his crew as well as other squads.
half my family lives in norway so I had the privelage of hearing stories about the resistance movement there from my grandfather. There are all sorts of pill boxes and other concrete buildings near my grandmothers house, found shell casings and what not, they were all placed facing the water so I'm not sure if they were orginally norwegian military or german.
My grandfather told me a cool story about how one day he was in his home city of Bergen when the resistance managed to blow up a german supply boat docked in the harbor. He was outside at the time working on a roof when this huge blast went off. He said for blocks around every window in the city was blown out, and that needless to say the germans were pretty ticked off after that.
My grandmother told me stories about how the Germans were always so nice to her, she was fairly young at the time. She was a local cafe where she usually would hang out and her mother came in and took her away and yelled at her since she had been talking to german soliders in there. The norwegians got lucky as far as treatment from the germans since most norwegians are aryans, however the norwegian people for the most part were not fond of the germans at all.
She also lived on a fjord, so she said there would always be huge German warships passing by, given the area she lived in I've come to the conclusion that she may have seen the Bismark at some point aswell.
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Without learning history we are doomed to repeat it.
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Without learning history we are doomed to repeat it.
Wise words...
Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In the first stage of life the mind is frivolous and easily distracted, it misses progress by failing in consecutiveness and persistence. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in which instinct has learned nothing from experience.
George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905
There's a political message in there somewhere ;)
Given present society's short attention span, and the encouragement of self-absorbed lifestyles, I'd have to modify your statement to read:
History, we are doomed to repeat it.
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I'm taking American History Honors this year, as a junior, and I find the guy that is teaching it, is incredibly biased to the liberal side. I've got into some political arguments about G.W.B and the guy that's in right now. It was funny, he was telling us about Upton Sinclair and Clarence Darrel, telling them that they were the best of the best, both in being a lawyer, and the other being a writer. I started a project on Upton Sinclair, since he was the only one I knew at the time.
Come to find out that both Clarence Darrel and Upton Sinclair are socialist.
It just goes to show you that it's not just colleges that have the bias, but its going to the high schools now too.
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I think that for the majority, it is all about me and what is good for myself. Even though I graduated over ten years ago, I remember many of my fellow classmates not caring about history. And many of them had grandfathers that served in WWII. Mine were young enough to have just missed any action. In fact, my grandfather missed Korea. (Was on a troop ship on the way when word came the war was over and they turned around. They did make a practice run on Iwo though.) When I asked them aobut their grandfathers, they did not know much. They said they never asked or thought about it. It would be very sad to know how many stories have been lost by people not asking those brave men about their experiences.
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I'm taking American History Honors this year, as a junior, and I find the guy that is teaching it, is incredibly biased to the liberal side. I've got into some political arguments about G.W.B and the guy that's in right now. It was funny, he was telling us about Upton Sinclair and Clarence Darrel, telling them that they were the best of the best, both in being a lawyer, and the other being a writer. I started a project on Upton Sinclair, since he was the only one I knew at the time.
Come to find out that both Clarence Darrel and Upton Sinclair are socialist.
It just goes to show you that it's not just colleges that have the bias, but its going to the high schools now too.
Bosco, pass this along to your teacher:
Those who can... do
Those who can't... teach
Those who can't teach... teach teachers :)
I've had enough run-ins with teachers to have a pretty strong opinion on this issue. Strong enough, in fact, to have my daughter in private school.
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I'm taking American History Honors this year, as a junior, and I find the guy that is teaching it, is incredibly biased to the liberal side. I've got into some political arguments about G.W.B and the guy that's in right now. It was funny, he was telling us about Upton Sinclair and Clarence Darrel, telling them that they were the best of the best, both in being a lawyer, and the other being a writer. I started a project on Upton Sinclair, since he was the only one I knew at the time.
Come to find out that both Clarence Darrel and Upton Sinclair are socialist.
It just goes to show you that it's not just colleges that have the bias, but its going to the high schools now too.
Shhh...your trying to kill our topic with politics! I could go into detail about how crappy GWB was but let's stay on topic, eh?
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I just think most of the kids today could care less about what happened almost 70 years ago. If not for the US involvement , we all may be speaking German.
edit: i just started this thread to vent, i being a military family thinks that our vets should get a lot of respect for what they done and what they have sacrificed.
:salute
Vets
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Sad to say, at the years go on the youth of today is going to care less and less about what happened in those dark days. As for me when I was in HS, I couldn't wait until we got into WW2 but it didn't seem to cover it too long.
:salute to the vets as well, regardless of what country they were from
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We talked about WW2 in history for maybe 2 class periods.
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Shhh...your trying to kill our topic with politics! I could go into detail about how crappy GWB was but let's stay on topic, eh?
I'm sure you could, but I could come up with a lot more things on the president now, then you will with GWB, and he's only been in 3 months. Let's do keep it on topic.
:)
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Sad to say, at the years go on the youth of today is going to care less and less about what happened in those dark days. As for me when I was in HS, I couldn't wait until we got into WW2 but it didn't seem to cover it too long.
:salute to the vets as well, regardless of what country they were from
I've been the same way, but every year they manage to skip over it. In the mandatory Hawaiian History class, we got the usual bit about how we got bombed, and then America became as bad as the Nazis for imprisoning Japanese citizens, and then how little Japanese and local kids are the heros of the world for joining the 442nd... Oh no, our classes aren't at ALL biased... but that was all we hear about WWII. Finally this year I get into AP US History and think "Yay! This is college level! We can do some great stuff!" only to have our teacher announce on the first day that he would skip over all the details about any war.
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Without learning history we are doomed to repeat it.
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."
- Mark Twain
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Sophomore history class, I was the only student who knew in which year WWII ended. No kidding. :uhoh
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All of history is important.
Five words never rang so true. Quoted for truth.
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Sophomore history class, I was the only student who knew in which year WWII ended. No kidding. :uhoh
We have a cheat-sheet in the harbor for that ;)
(http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc74/Serene_One/Mo/100_3628.jpg)
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My 12 year old knows alot about WW2. He's forever doing reports on the subject. But he is not indicative of the rest of his classmates. Like his ole dad, he loves history of all kinds. :)
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history for todays youth is last friday night ... the future is this friday night
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meh, all the parents in twenty or thirty years will probably whine about how the kids of then don't know anything about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan...
Tronsky
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I'm sure you could, but I could come up with a lot more things on the president now, then you will with GWB, and he's only been in 3 months. Let's do keep it on topic.
:)
::cough:: BS ::cough::
Sorry you've got so much to hate about in 3 months. He's only trying to dig us out of the hole the former dug us into.
And I'm done because we're going to lock the thread with this crap.
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Don't be too disgusted or disdainful with others around you kiddos who don't know that much about history. Instead share your enthusiasm with them. :) And then once you've got a family of your own, your love of history can be passed on to the people who matter the most.
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::cough:: BS ::cough::
Sorry you've got so much to hate about in 3 months. He's only trying to dig us out of the hole the former dug us into.
And I'm done because we're going to lock the thread with this crap.
Bosco, I knew you were a "hater". Classic dodge response from the enlightened younger generation. Attack anyone who disagrees with you. This is the new definition of tolerance. But never mind me, I've only lived thru 11 administrations.
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."
- Mark Twain
And since we're quoting Twain:
“When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished by how much he'd learned in seven years.”
- Mark Twain
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Don't be too disgusted or disdainful with others around you kiddos who don't know that much about history. Instead share your enthusiasm with them. :) And then once you've got a family of your own, your love of history can be passed on to the people who matter the most.
Leave it to Mom to come in and give everybody a hug. :salute
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The 'youth of today' throughout history knew and cared just as little about history. Nothing has changed in the youth of the last thousand years, all that has changed is history became politics and war became final.
We now live in a time of mass research, developement and invention on a scale thought impossible one hundred years ago. The future is infinitely more bright for the youth of today than anything they could look back on over the last two thousand years of history. Who can blame them for not caring about mass murder and rascism from the thousand years before 'their time'?
Most of us here will have been born in the 1900's. Most of the youth of today and tomorrow will have been born into the 2000's. I think some of us may overlook how significant a marker we have witnessed both sides of. This is the third set of one thousand years in the widely accepted western modern human history.
Those of us who crossed that void will have to be left behind in the past or split in two for the future.
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What I see is the youth of today sees the success we have had in the past as something that is inherited. They dont think of all the people that went to college and learned all the things a productive nation needs. I always think of that story of the Grasshopper and the Ant. Where the grasshopper played his fiddle all summer while the ants worked and he made fun of them, and when winter came the ants were safe and warm, and he froze to death out in the cold.
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At least the grasshopper was free to make a choice even if it was the wrong one.
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At junior high my history teacher tought to my class how the B-29s took off from the US Carrier Vessels to bomb Japan...
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At least the grasshopper was free to make a choice even if it was the wrong one.
I'm thinking his only mistake was in not getting a better agent. A fiddle-playing grasshopper could make a fortune! :O Probably sound better than 95% of the crap on MTV too.
At junior high my history teacher tought to my class how the B-29s took off from the US Carrier Vessels to bomb Japan...
No surprise there. :rolleyes:
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haha! maybe he faked his death to get a quiet life somewhere in the sun?
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haha! maybe he faked his death to get a quiet life somewhere in the sun?
I'm sure I saw him hanging with Jimmy Buffett the last time I was in Cabo.
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The 'youth of today' throughout history knew and cared just as little about history. Nothing has changed in the youth of the last thousand years, all that has changed is history became politics and war became final.
We now live in a time of mass research, developement and invention on a scale thought impossible one hundred years ago. The future is infinitely more bright for the youth of today than anything they could look back on over the last two thousand years of history. Who can blame them for not caring about mass murder and rascism from the thousand years before 'their time'?
Most of us here will have been born in the 1900's. Most of the youth of today and tomorrow will have been born into the 2000's. I think some of us may overlook how significant a marker we have witnessed both sides of. This is the third set of one thousand years in the widely accepted western modern human history.
Those of us who crossed that void will have to be left behind in the past or split in two for the future.
Amen. :salute
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I am constantly informed at how clueless my peers are whenever I talk to them about history.
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Global Honors: WW1 unit, 2 packets 1 movie (Flyboys) it was over, WW2 unit 2 packets, project and "Shindlers List"... Pathetic waste of time if you ask me, those in my class who dont knwo much of WW 1 or 2, i can safely say, didnt learn much more.
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history for todays youth is last friday night ... the future is this friday night
Same for my dad 30-40 years ago when he was my age.
Course, the biggest difference is, now, when you get in trouble for thinking like that, you don't get whooped.
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i remember once my teacher showing us a WWII powerpoint and there was a picture or a P-38 and she said that it was the U.S. primary bomber in europe! i loled!!
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Course, the biggest difference is, now, when you get in trouble for thinking like that, you don't get whooped.
Part of the problem is that knowledge is grounds for getting "whooped." I'm sure I would have had my bellybutton kicked if I hadn't played a couple sports. In our society, if you are an adolescent male who's only strength is a good intellect i.e. you don't play sports, and you know more about the world than your peers, you will be a target. You will be shunned because of the good quality you have. That youth culture shuns knowledge and achievement is a big part of the reason why most youth are, frankly, quite dumb. Female youth are, on average, a little brighter because achievement is not such a stain on their popularity potential. But regardless of females, youth culture paradoxically identifies knowledge and achievement with a failure to develop as an independent, autonomous individual, which is supposed to be the end goal of adolescent progress. It's the cave-man mentality that deems the ability to swing a club superior to the man who's potential is to design and build a spear. Our western civilization was built on the overcoming of this prejudice, which is fashionable among the ignorant and easily-manipulated, but we let it flourish in our most important educational institutions because we believe it is best to let the young find their own way.
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No. Eggheads get shunned because they're reportedly disconnected from material life. Everyone incl the basest cavemen knows those eggheads're at least one step above the sports jocks, if they show a proper application of all that theory. Business or any kind of shrewd, practical wisdom. When poop hits the fan, it doesn't matter whether you're an egghead or a jock, only that you're lucid and can get poop done.
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We'll have to disagree. In my experience, and in what I've learned about human psychology, resentment toward what is good and useful is the first principle of early social relationships. In other words, as soon as that jock shows a spark and achieves something outside of physical exertion, he will stir resentment among his peers, too. ;)
What you're saying would make sense if a 16 year old could show off his practicality with his knowledge of calculus or physics, but at that age theoretical knowledge is not yet developed enough to be useful, and it's certainly not going to get you laid. It takes a higher type to understand that it will be useful in the future and to place value on that delayed reward.
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Theoretical knowledge does get you laid. The same way you can read abstract math and physics, you can read the dynamics of people. You can see that one particular chick will be stuck-up if you explicitely aim for her, but totally lose control if you screw with her balance and lay your charms into the girl next to her.
etc.
The jock spark: that's wrong too. No one can deny truth sufficiently transparent. The jock just hasn't well enough demonstrated he's right. Of course, on top of that, he's rarely completely right.
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Theoretical knowledge does get you laid.
I must have been reading the wrong books! :lol
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It's a liability to limit yourself to any one book or teacher or medium or learning venue... Everything you learn in one discipline will apply to one or more totally unrelated discipline, somehow.
And another bit to my argument: any kid will recognize brass tacks truth. Bridging theoretical and practical is wisdom that any kid will recognize and defer to. Egghead or jock.
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And another bit to my argument: any kid will recognize brass tacks truth. Bridging theoretical and practical is wisdom that any kid will recognize and defer to. Egghead or jock.
I knew you didn't have an American public education, but it's painfully obvious now. :aok
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As a matter of fact.. The alpha male of the jocks, in the High School locker room (tempe, az), gave me his "nod of approval" (wasnt that but thats what it boils down to) in front of all the 300lbs fitness clowns. To their disapproval but they never really questioned it except for one idiot with poor impulse control. And I was, as far as they were concerned, an egghead. French to boot.
And it's in the US that I consciously, explicitely learned that brass tacks are the bottom line. That no amount of theory weighs as much as even the crappiest actual practical effort. That if something stupid works, it's not stupid.