Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Terrain Editor => Topic started by: soda72 on April 06, 2009, 05:27:44 PM

Title: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: soda72 on April 06, 2009, 05:27:44 PM
Looking for 'experienced' terrain makers that would like to create terrains to be used in the AvA.  Send me a PM if you are interested. 




Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: USRanger on April 06, 2009, 07:09:29 PM
Historical only?  If so, haven't all the theaters already been covered?
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: soda72 on April 06, 2009, 07:29:56 PM
Historical only?

Either historical or non-historical is acceptable for AvA use.  AvAsml is a good example of a non-historical terrain we have used from time to time.

If so, haven't all the theaters already been covered?

There's always room for more....

 :salute



Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: USRanger on April 06, 2009, 10:16:57 PM
Cool :)
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Easyscor on April 07, 2009, 02:43:02 AM
Historical only?  If so, haven't all the theaters already been covered?
No. There are many areas that have not been covered.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: soda72 on April 07, 2009, 07:07:18 AM
Cool :)

If you have a certain terrain you would like to do let me know.  We are looking for new terrains that are mission editor friendly where bishops and knights are used as the axis vs allies setup and have fields layouts that are reasonably close to find fights to accommodate a small community.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: 33Vortex on April 07, 2009, 08:18:48 AM
The Kursk salient on the eastern front, summer 1943?
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: soda72 on April 07, 2009, 09:36:26 AM
The Kursk salient on the eastern front, summer 1943?

That would be a good one...
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Motherland on April 07, 2009, 02:29:11 PM
The Kursk salient on the eastern front, summer 1943?
+1
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Denholm on April 08, 2009, 09:42:32 AM
Maybe I should fire up Malta again? If I did, should I include part of the African coastline or just Malta and Sicily?
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: soda72 on April 08, 2009, 11:24:44 AM
Maybe I should fire up Malta again? If I did, should I include part of the African coastline or just Malta and Sicily?

That would be up to you, the Africa costline does add additional timeline possibilities for setups.  The only guidelines we have is that the terrain is mission editor friendly, and has fields layouts that are reasonably close to find fights to accommodate a small community.  Also if you use custom fields, or objects keep frame rates in mind.  Custom objects like one eyed aliens or skins like Barbie pink spitfires should not be used. ;)
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Denholm on April 08, 2009, 02:36:21 PM
I might work on it over the summer to kill some spare time. However Blender is being a pain and will probably discourage me, again.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Lye-El on April 08, 2009, 07:50:02 PM
  Custom objects like one eyed aliens or skins like Barbie pink spitfires should not be used. ;)

Aww.....I'd rather see those than a B-29.  :D
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Chilli on April 10, 2009, 02:55:13 AM
I remember in H2H there being a Pearl Harbor map.  I wonder how many ships an editor could place in dry dock  :eek:  add new cities and strat (possibly Training Facility or Ammo Factory) nearby for added flak difficulty  :t

I would love to try it out, if anyone could mentor me  :O   

(http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h83000/h83109.jpg)
Yeah, I know you asked for experienced mapmakers ..... but tossing my newspaper hat in there.  :noid

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h83000/h83109.jpg

http://history1900s.about.com/library/photos/blyindexpearl.htm
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Denholm on April 10, 2009, 08:53:22 AM
Rpearl, made by Raptor. It was an incredible map, until AH updated. :(

I'll be glad to assist you in getting started! However as far as being politically correct in making terrains, can't help ya there.

TE Tutorial:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,196120.0.html

TE Tutorial (PDF):
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,209750.0.html

OE Tutorial:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,188450.0.html

(Please keep in mind, the tutorials teach you how to use the functions of the TE, and not how to make, "politically correct" terrains.)
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Easyscor on April 10, 2009, 11:13:09 AM
Quote from: Denholm
(Please keep in mind, the tutorials teach you how to use the functions of the TE, and not how to make, "politically correct" terrains.)

That must be code for a working terrain with high frame rates + good game play + working strat + no mountains of water + randomized terrain tiles +...

There has never been such a thing as a "politically correct" terrain as far as I know, although I can imagine a few trivial instances that would violate the htc TOS rules. As with all things in AH, there are requirements to be met that are not achieved without effort.

The requirements in their order of importance, IMO are as follows:

1 Good game play design ie frame rates, distances between bases and objects etc.
2 Knowing the special requirements, if any, for the target arena.
3 Understanding of the interaction between the game components, ie truck convoys, ack etc.
4 Familiarity with the Terrain Editor (about to be updated).

Meeting those 4 requirements alone, you can produce welcome terrains for any arena including the AvA. The next two are of benefit to the AvA, but are not required.

5 Familiarity with the Object Editor (optional, and about to be updated)
6 Familiarity with ac3d (optional)

While Pearl Harbor is a worthy project, it's one that shouldn't be attempted as a first project. It's more fitting for a builders' 3rd or 4th project because of the additional components requiring the Object Editor and ac3d. I suggest something like the Poe Valley as a more fitting first time terrain building effort.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: mrmidi on April 10, 2009, 01:02:28 PM
I have a Peal Harbor Terrain I have worked on as a side project...it's nothing fancy..

The draw back with the extra ack is a frame rate issue. When there are 8, 10, 20 planes in the same area with all the extra ack
frame rates drop to single digits, and thats with a decent system, and all default objects.

I'm not saying it can't be done by no means, just pointing out the issue of excesive ack in a terrain.


midi

Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Chilli on April 10, 2009, 01:59:21 PM
Looks like I have some reading to do Denholm :aok  Like I said I love this stuff. :O  I will save my how to questions until after I have at least attempted to find the help myself through one of the great links that you have pointed me to.

MrMidi, maybe the two of us can mesh ideas from your map that is complete and find a balance in the politically correct terrain area that would be a nice addition.  I wish for no credit for your hard work, if anything, I wish to help promote it getting implemented for arena use.  :salute You can email me, just left click on my name above icon (the information there is up to date).  There is a widget at the GruppeOutlaws website that you could upload files to also.  http://gruppeoutlaws.50megs.com/box_widget.html (http://gruppeoutlaws.50megs.com/box_widget.html)

It will take me a week or so to digest the information that I have been given.  So, both thanks  :aok and please don't forget about me.  I want to follow this through.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: USRanger on April 10, 2009, 02:25:23 PM
Chilli, try this offline mission:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,254869.0.html

It's not Pearl, but it's a loaded harbor with lots of ack (I recommend turning your ack damage strength down via clipboard options prior). It's a Japanese harbor, so fly the American side and see how your frame rates are when flying over the harbor.

 :salute
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Denholm on April 13, 2009, 09:17:49 AM
...There has never been such a thing as a "politically correct" terrain as far as I know, although I can imagine a few trivial instances that would violate the htc TOS rules. As with all things in AH, there are requirements to be met that are not achieved without effort...
Perhaps I should revert back to stating that the tutorial doesn't teach you how to generate MA acceptable terrains? :)
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Chilli on April 13, 2009, 03:12:28 PM
Okay, before I get started then, list of things to avoid, like:    :uhoh custom textures, clouds, extensive ack, field distances, etc.  If I have a better idea, my guess is that I should be able to weigh the benefit / fps against appeal or other design preferences.  In this area, shouldn't the AHWiki - Terrain Editor include some more player/maker input?  It was a good place to start but not much more than a dictionary at this point.  (Hint:  Wiki's are editable by the community.  If you have good info on does and don'ts maybe you could carry on the discussion there.) 

Please don't read into the tone of this post.  I am extremely grateful for all the help,  :salute and I try to state things simply (for my sake).  Anyway, back to the drawing board which happens to be the reading room for the moment.

Thanks Ranger, I have the Rngrcove file and will look at fps.

Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Easyscor on April 13, 2009, 03:31:47 PM
Okay, before I get started then, list of things to avoid, like:

custom textures
These are the biggest frame rate killers when used on objects seen from the air, but judicial use is fine.

clouds
Weather is a separate file from the terrain and clouds are fine.

extensive ack
Never a good idea, particularly in the AvA

field distances
Depends. For the small number of players in the AvA, closer is better up to a point. Instead of 25 miles between airfields, something like 12 to 20 miles seems to work pretty well. The terrains with fields at around 12 miles or less are meant to be 'War' type events with assigned objectives, but I see them being used for regular setups, which is up to the staff so this seems to be their preference right now.

etc.
?[/]
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Chilli on April 13, 2009, 03:40:17 PM
I have a Peal Harbor Terrain I have worked on as a side project...it's nothing fancy..

The draw back with the extra ack is a frame rate issue. When there are 8, 10, 20 planes in the same area with all the extra ack
frame rates drop to single digits, and thats with a decent system, and all default objects.

I'm not saying it can't be done by no means, just pointing out the issue of excesive ack in a terrain.


midi



It is good to know these things.  MrMidi, is it possible to collaborate or just mentor me?  For something that has already been done, I would love to see what tweaks we could put in and be HTC politically correct.

Still until I hear from you I am doing my homework, reading.  But there is no better learning tool than experience, so any tips on what I should or could be doing will be greatly appreciated.

 :salute

Looking at the diagram I had thought to place a refinery to simulate the oil farms listed there.  This should add some puffy flak, we will see.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Denholm on April 15, 2009, 09:43:49 AM
If you want experience, try making some terrains for offline use. Something similar to an MA terrain. Remember, it doesn't have to be MA-workable, it simply has to imitate the workings of an MA terrain. That way you can get your brain muscles flexing so you get an idea of what goes into the preparation of a terrain, what needs to be done to make the terrain, and what needs to be done to test the terrain.

Now, remember... This doesn't have to be a working terrain. It is simply so you get an idea of how things work so you can extend or narrow your horizons to what you're capable of accomplishing. Just remember, road bumps shouldn't be considered the end of the road.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Chilli on April 17, 2009, 03:30:53 PM
Okay, it has been a week and still reading up.  :frown:  Ranger, I loved the map and see what you are talking about with the ack and fps.  I didn't take much of a hit with it but it was noticeable.  After reading some I wonder if the custom objects are to blame for the fps drop as much or even more so than the ack.

That is a good question for me because I think that your use of these stationary ships is exactly what I would "like" to use in the harbor.

My next question.  How can I "steal" some of your ideas and implement them in my primary attempt at map building?

And lastly I ask, how important is it to keep the scale of the island relevant to the 25 miles a sector guide?
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: USRanger on April 17, 2009, 04:36:42 PM
My next question.  How can I "steal" some of your ideas and implement them in my primary attempt at map building?

Anything I can do to help you along, just ask.  I'm sure that goes for the others here as well.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Denholm on April 17, 2009, 05:08:04 PM
...And lastly I ask, how important is it to keep the scale of the island relevant to the 25 miles a sector guide?
I'm guessing since the AvA and SEA arenas seem to be more realistic, realism (or ensuring the terrain is nearly accurate in size) is critical.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: mrmidi on April 17, 2009, 08:47:16 PM
Chilli did you recieve my PM I sent you Monday night?

midi
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Chilli on April 21, 2009, 03:45:16 PM
Okay, here are some bitmaps that I am working from.  The top image once I add the labels and decide on the scale is where I would like to begin.  Suggestions are more than welcome.

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/hawaii.gif)

Yes, MrMidi thank you for your response and I need all the help anyone can offer.

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/hawaii-physical-map.gif)

I have been having a lot of fun with Ranger's offline mission.  :rock  The Japanese fleet skinned wonderfully.  I see the disadvantage of customizing and framerates, so I will try to customize very minimally.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: soda72 on April 21, 2009, 03:47:27 PM
Is the first image from google earth or another program?
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Chilli on April 21, 2009, 03:52:45 PM
Yes, Soda it is the same image just tweaked a little.  I am thinking that scale may need to revised some.  What do you think?
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: soda72 on April 21, 2009, 04:02:16 PM
Yes, Soda it is the same image just tweaked a little.  I am thinking that scale may need to revised some.  What do you think?

Here is one that I did using mapmaker with the width set to 5.0 which I believe is half scale.  So on a 512x512 map it barely fits...

(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g185/s0da72/pearlh.png)
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Easyscor on April 21, 2009, 05:03:26 PM
Soda, you'd have been very unhappy with the game play on that terrain. I understand why you did it, but the distances are far too great at that scale.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Denholm on April 22, 2009, 09:18:51 AM
Okay, here are some bitmaps that I am working from.  The top image once I add the labels and decide on the scale is where I would like to begin.  Suggestions are more than welcome.

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/hawaii.gif)

Yes, MrMidi thank you for your response and I need all the help anyone can offer.

(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/hawaii-physical-map.gif)

I have been having a lot of fun with Ranger's offline mission.  :rock  The Japanese fleet skinned wonderfully.  I see the disadvantage of customizing and framerates, so I will try to customize very minimally.
See if you can convert that first one to a grayscale. If it keeps the height (mountains or maximum altitude is white, valleys or water is black) you can use it to automatically build the terrain in the TE saving you some work. Tweaking will be necessary, however it will get the land-mass in place so you can focus on other things.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: MotleyCH on April 22, 2009, 12:56:52 PM
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/grimsfx/oahu2.jpg)

I started work on a Pearl Map soon after last years event...but like most of my projects I didn't get very far.

Feel free to use this if you wish.

The dimensions of the island should be 40x30 miles approximately.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Denholm on April 22, 2009, 02:24:28 PM
Did you get that image to work? From what I've been told you need a pure grayscale (black and white) for height maps to work properly.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Chilli on April 22, 2009, 02:53:24 PM
Excellent MotleyCH  :aok

I had read that bitmap could help build terrain automatically so I was spending more time there.  Thanks for the confirmation.  Next week I will be moving on to base placement.  Thanks for all the help.  I almost feel the need  to start another thread.  This is great guys and really appreciated  :salute
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: MotleyCH on April 22, 2009, 03:15:47 PM
Did you get that image to work? From what I've been told you need a pure grayscale (black and white) for height maps to work properly.

I had changed the blue to black then grey scaled it, the land areas that look black aren't exactly true black, so there is some elevation there.

Also, the highest point should be about 4,000 feet.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: MotleyCH on April 22, 2009, 03:47:11 PM
Here's a better grey scale.
Note that coastline isn't visible to the naked eye, but it's there. Just bump up the contrast in your editor to temporarily see it.

(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/grimsfx/pearl.jpg)
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Denholm on April 22, 2009, 04:06:35 PM
Wow, some amazing quality! I wish I knew how to convert Topography maps to grayscales. :(
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Chilli on April 24, 2009, 05:29:45 AM
 :aok  Got it!!!
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: mrmidi on April 24, 2009, 07:34:03 AM
Chilli I just added another "Water and Shore Line" set of textures on my site that might look good in your terrain.

Here is a link to the files..

http://www.mrmidi.net/dloads/AH/tiles/waterand_beach.zip

I assume you know to create a folder in your terrains folder called "texsrc"  put the files in the download in there.

"C:\Program Files\HTC\ah2editor\ahiiterr\your_terrain_name_here\texsrc"

midi

Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Chilli on May 16, 2009, 04:58:19 PM
Thank you very much Midi,

It has been an emotionally draining couple of months here.  I appologize for not sticking to my schedule for working on the project.  I am beginning to feel up to getting back in the saddle, so look for some more questions ahead.

Again, thanks all for all the help.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: danny37 on May 30, 2009, 06:45:01 AM
working on a terrain of OAHU island,not so much as peral harbor  but the island,its possible it could be used for the ava if it could be updated along with the new terrain update.all i have left to do on it is to finish the vh spawns.although the picture dosent show it yet all the fields are placed and in ava format,when its done im gonna use it for an offline mission.
(http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww293/danny37/oahu.jpg)
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: danny37 on May 30, 2009, 06:49:48 AM
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/grimsfx/oahu2.jpg)

I started work on a Pearl Map soon after last years event...but like most of my projects I didn't get very far.

Feel free to use this if you wish.

The dimensions of the island should be 40x30 miles approximately.
looks good MotleyCH but i noticed its missing FORD ISLAND which was a very important part of pearl harbor.thats where  the majority of the battleships were docked.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: Motherland on May 30, 2009, 01:54:44 PM
looks good MotleyCH but i noticed its missing FORD ISLAND which was a very important part of pearl harbor.thats where  the majority of the battleships were docked.
Ford Island is there. It's just almost invisible as it's hex value is 010101, which I would assume would make it about at sealevel.
Title: Re: AvA terrain makers wanted...
Post by: MotleyCH on May 31, 2009, 02:13:43 AM
Wow, some amazing quality! I wish I knew how to convert Topography maps to grayscales. :(

It's quite easy with this http://chawks.com/3dem_setup.exe

Finding good free DEM's is getting harder to find, but their out there.