Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: texasmom on April 07, 2009, 08:39:36 AM
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Boy, we're spending trillions on crapola everywhere here... but sending Italy a whopping fifty thousand dollars ? Would have been better to not send them anything at all rather than that amount. What a slap in the face. Sheesh.
On the other hand, they finally used a little moderation in spending (*rolls eyes*)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ikJZkXxJ8cJg2RvVbRTqZKEZwVqg
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I am sure they will send more if needed or requested.
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Curious how much Italy sent us for Katrina or the recent floodings in the Dakota's?
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Curious how much Italy sent us for Katrina or the recent floodings in the Dakota's?
Ditto.
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Curious how much Italy sent us for Katrina or the recent floodings in the Dakota's?
After Katrina "Italy offered to send two Hercules C130 cargo aircraft fitted with emergency aids, including 300 adult camp beds, 300 blankets, 600 sheets, 1 suction pump, 6 lifecrafts, 11.200 chlorine tablets, 5 units of large first aid kits, baby food formula pumps, tents and power generators. Italy also offered to send some experts of the Protezione Civile to help coordinating relief efforts in the damaged area."
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_hur_kat_int_aid_res-hurricane-katrina-international-aid-response
*edit* :lol
So we're offering to Italy the same amount that the nation of Djibouti offered to the US after Katrina. Even more laughable.
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I'd just as soon italy and the rest of the beggars handle their own affairs and we handle ours. Same with individuals here in the US. If you can't afford it then don't buy it. If you can't afford kids then don't have them. If you want socialism go to china.
While we are at it lets turn away all illegals at the hospital and clear the emergency rooms for emergencies only.
Ok too many others to list but that would be a start.
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I see what they offered, what did they actually send? Since when is it our [the taxpayers of the U.S.A.] job to pay for every natural disaster that happens on this planet? I have 2 brothers that are unemployed at the moment, I feel it's about time we took care of our own first. If you think $50,000 is a slap in the face then maybe donate some of your own money to the cause.
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I see what they offered, what did they actually send? Since when is it our [the taxpayers of the U.S.A.] job to pay for every natural disaster that happens on this planet? I have 2 brothers that are unemployed at the moment, I feel it's about time we took care of our own first. If you think $50,000 is a slap in the face then maybe donate some of your own money to the cause.
I concur.
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well in GDP terms $50,000 from the US is about the same as $9,000 from Italy. 2x empty 130s with crew would cost considerably more than that just to fly across the atlantic let alone operate for weeks with extra personnel and supplies, so you guys were offered way more than you've sent to Italy. I'm sure they are still grateful though :)
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I see what they offered, what did they actually send? Since when is it our [the taxpayers of the U.S.A.] job to pay for every natural disaster that happens on this planet? I have 2 brothers that are unemployed at the moment, I feel it's about time we took care of our own first. If you think $50,000 is a slap in the face then maybe donate some of your own money to the cause.
It's not anymore. We are too busy paying for all the people that Shuffler mentioned.
I'd just as soon italy and the rest of the beggars handle their own affairs and we handle ours. Same with individuals here in the US. If you can't afford it then don't buy it. If you can't afford kids then don't have them. If you want socialism go to china.
While we are at it lets turn away all illegals at the hospital and clear the emergency rooms for emergencies only.
Ok too many others to list but that would be a start.
Perhaps when we are finished passing the hat to pay for everyone that defaulted on their mortgage (that they probably knew they couldn't afford in the first place), bailing out businesses that failed because of crappy management, and providing health care for free to non-citizens, then we can afford to be a little more generous.
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I don't under any circumstances believe that we have an obligation to help anyone at all ~ ever.
What I think is ridiculous is that we make these kinds of meaningless gestures of generosity to give the appearance of being the kind, considerate neighbor ~ when in truth it doesn't mean a thing. If you're going to help, it should be for the purpose of making a difference... not just "oh, look! we're being nice again!" with an amount that is obviously laughable. :lol
Duh ~ the original post wasn't about the money ~ it was about the fake gesture of generosity. :lol
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The European Union should not require financial aid in this situation. If there's specialist equipment or personnel needed, that would be a different matter, but I can't see why the US would provide financial aid to a region of equal economic strength.
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IIRC the U.S. has always turned down any offer of foreign aid. It is merely a gesture.
Coincidentally:
PRIME Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who has declined foreign humanitarian aid following Italy's earthquake, said on Tuesday he may accept US aid to restore cultural sites damaged in the disaster.
And, it would seem that 2 C-130s is Italy's SOP for earthquake relief:
In 2003, Italy sent two C-130 cargo planes to Iran, after the city of Bam - a UNESCO world heritage site - was destroyed by a massive earthquake. More than 30,000 people died.
wrongway
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The European Union should not require financial aid in this situation. If there's specialist equipment or personnel needed, that would be a different matter, but I can't see why the US would provide financial aid to a region of equal economic strength.
Or perhaps a better economic strength at this stage of the game? :D
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I wonder how much the Italians have spent on helping America in that other big disaster, the war in Iraq? My guess is a lot more than $50k.
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How many billions, if not trillions did (has, and still are) American spend in the last 60 years to ensure not only Italy, but the whole of Europe was safe from the Soviet Union? I could be wrong, but it seems if you want to quantify who gives what to whom you have to recognize the trillions of dollars the USA has spent to keep this world safe. Yes, perhaps it was not spent to keep Italy, or any other European country safe specifically. But it sure has to be a nice residual effect for them.
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How far back in time should we go? Can and should we really claim credit for what our forefathers did?
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Italy has already said it doesn't need any help....
And all this $50,000 was a gesture of support..
Italy is not a 3rd world country and doesn't need help
for something as localized as this.. Besides, there are other
countries that are more geographically viable to help them if they need it..
Castro did the same thing during Hurricane Katrina..
It's just a show of support(that our hearts our with them sort of thing).. Some of you are reading way too much into this..
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Ugh. This thread got downright nasty quick.
I agree with you Txmom that the help we have offered is a joke.
In response to the criticism: "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
Help when you can and maybe they will when they can. They have been pulling survivors all day, I hope they continue to find more.
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How far back in time should we go? Can and should we really claim credit for what our forefathers did?
forefathers? I was talking as recent as 20 years ago, in regards to the Soviet Union, and as recent as today in regards to fighting Terrorism.
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I don't think europeans see the American contribution to the NATO defence as anything but self interest. With two european nuclear powers I don't think there is much America could have helped with if fighting broke out. WWIII would have ended in nuclear apocalypse anyhow. I don't think the europeans have asked or wanted US help in the fight against terrorism. After all, they've been fighting international terrorism for a very long time. If you ask the average european I bet they don't even think America's "war on terrorism" is helping at all. Perhaps a few europeans could comment?
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I'd just as soon italy and the rest of the beggars handle their own affairs and we handle ours. Same with individuals here in the US. If you can't afford it then don't buy it. If you can't afford kids then don't have them. If you want socialism go to china.
While we are at it lets turn away all illegals at the hospital and clear the emergency rooms for emergencies only.
Ok too many others to list but that would be a start.
:aok
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Just my opinion.
How far back in time should we go? Can and should we really claim credit for what our forefathers did?
As FAR BACK as you can go, and YES we should.
The sins of our fathers are still on the sholder's of our sons, and that is the way it will always be. So right wrong or indifferent, stand up and take a bow. The worlds watching.
And when it comes to giving or helping someone, it is NEVER enough, not ever.
If & when you stand before the gates of heaven and are asked "did you do enough?" your answer should always be NO!
but i did all i could do. And thats all i can ask of my country or my people.
$50,000 is more today than they had yesterday.
And for the love of god if your going to quote me, at least quote the entire thing, and not just whatever part you feel like nit picking, i haven't got another week of bickering.
-Throws two cents- its never enough.
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If you feel you can take credit for the good your forefathers did, do you also feel responsible for the wrongs they did?
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Boy, we're spending trillions on crapola everywhere here... but sending Italy a whopping fifty thousand dollars ? Would have been better to not send them anything at all rather than that amount. What a slap in the face. Sheesh.
On the other hand, they finally used a little moderation in spending (*rolls eyes*)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ikJZkXxJ8cJg2RvVbRTqZKEZwVqg
Yeah, we don't spend billions helping other nations and other people every year. We should feel guilty. :rolleyes:
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Yeah, we don't spend billions helping other nations and other people every year. We should feel guilty. :rolleyes:
I don't under any circumstances believe that we have an obligation to help anyone at all ~ ever.
What I think is ridiculous is that we make these kinds of meaningless gestures of generosity to give the appearance of being the kind, considerate neighbor ~ when in truth it doesn't mean a thing. If you're going to help, it should be for the purpose of making a difference... not just "oh, look! we're being nice again!" with an amount that is obviously laughable. :lol
Duh ~ the original post wasn't about the money ~ it was about the fake gesture of generosity. :lol
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If you feel you can take credit for the good your forefathers did, do you also feel responsible for the wrongs they did?
yes i do, the nukes on japan (Till this day we are still the only nation on the planet that has killed thousands of none combative men woman and children through nuclear genocide) the treatment of the american indian's, current AND PAST, the list go's on and on. We cannot even fix and repair the past evil deed's done to our OWN people,and yet our government feels the need to reach out and spew its propaganda on other nations.
Look at our self's!
Your dang skippy i do, but that's just me, i hold little faith for the obligation of my people or nation to change, if they do not feel the same way, they have that right. Nor do i think any less of them if they do not see things as i do, or feel the same as well.
For whatever its worth, just one guys opinion. -throws two cents-
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You people are taking this way out of context..
C'mon.... You must understand what this was...Don't you??
Believe me, if Italy REALLY needed any help, we'd be there....If they need people to help dig survivors out of the rubble, we'll be there....If they need food, water, anything, we'll be there....
Italy is doing just fine with this crisis on her own.. They totally didn't ask for anything especially any kind of hand out.... The 50 grande is just a show of support....Sort of like earnest money when you buy a house.... The Italians understand this....Why don't you people? Know you nothing of how diplomacy works?
Don't worry.... :lol Italy won't ask us for a thing.. They are already dealing with this crisis much better than we did with Katrina..
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I don't think europeans see the American contribution to the NATO defence as anything but self interest. With two european nuclear powers I don't think there is much America could have helped with if fighting broke out. WWIII would have ended in nuclear apocalypse anyhow. I don't think the europeans have asked or wanted US help in the fight against terrorism. After all, they've been fighting international terrorism for a very long time. If you ask the average european I bet they don't even think America's "war on terrorism" is helping at all. Perhaps a few europeans could comment?
We just dont see it as that big a deal. Europe has been at war for thousands of years. The present european bond is larger and more peacefull than ever before. America's role in WWII was clearly of large impact, no European would deny that. My feeling is that 1000 years of killing each other has accustomed Europeans to all the arts of warfare, including diplomacy and tact. The modern America has a long way to go before warfare is ingrained in its soil, before hundreds of generations of American warriors have bled on our earth. I am gratefull for everything Americans can do to stop terrorists killing innocent people. I just dont understand why so many American's seem to demand credit for acts of war. War is not something to congratulate yourself about. Ever. You fight, you try to win, then you move on lesson learnt. The current war is an even worse scenario than Vietnam, this war will not end unless our forces kill every single last one of them.
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I don't think europeans see the American contribution to the NATO defence as anything but self interest.True With two european nuclear powers I don't think there is much America could have helped with if fighting broke out. WWIII would have ended in nuclear apocalypse anyhow. TrueI don't think the europeans have asked or wanted US help in the fight against terrorism. I believe there is mutual interest in sharing intelligence. Reciprocal rather than sort afterAfter all, they've been fighting international terrorism for a very long time. Some one said Iraq is like the IRA only with a Q in itIf you ask the average european I bet they don't even think America's "war on terrorism" is helping at all. War? No such thing. That's a Bush-ism. You can be vigilant and stead fast but you can go to war. Imprisonment without trial....whats that about? Perhaps a few europeans could comment? Just my two pence
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texasmom
Your posts contradict your thread title.
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How far back in time should we go? Can and should we really claim credit for what our forefathers did?
Well if I am still making payments on that....then yes I take some credit!
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texasmom
Your posts contradict your thread title.
The title was meant in the most smart aleck way possible
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I'd just as soon italy and the rest of the beggars handle their own affairs and we handle ours. Same with individuals here in the US. If you can't afford it then don't buy it. If you can't afford kids then don't have them. If you want socialism go to china.
While we are at it lets turn away all illegals at the hospital and clear the emergency rooms for emergencies only.
Ok too many others to list but that would be a start.
Excuse me? Did Italy beg for help from you? What does this natural disaster have to do with buying things you cannot afford?
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texasmom
Your posts contradict your thread title.
sarcasm
A form of irony in which apparent praise conceals another, scornful meaning. For example, a sarcastic remark directed at a person who consistently arrives fifteen minutes late for appointments might be, “Oh, you've arrived exactly on time!”
The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
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sar⋅casm /ˈsɑrkćzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [sahr-kaz-uhm]
–noun 1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Origin:
1570–80; < LL sarcasmus < Gk sarkasmós, deriv. of sarkázein to rend (flesh), sneer; see sarco-
Synonyms:
1. sardonicism, bitterness, ridicule. See irony 1 . 2. jeer.
Don't know why, but I've always hated the word "sardonic".
Carry on.
wrongway
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My dear fellow human beings from the United States:
The situation in Italy, although tragic, is managable, and will be Italian government that manages it. Any offers of help, however insignificant or extravagant, are a normal human reaction to a tragic. Sometimes in difficult situations, we like to know that we have people standing behind us if the situation calls for it.And so, we let people know that we are there for them.
Based on the overwhelming popular reaction in this forum, one can assume that my fellow human beings from the United States lack empathic. I know that is not the case. I have lived in the US. I know that Americans can be the warmest and simpatic people when the situation calls for.
Now, remember, this is the internet. Anyone in the world can see what you are writing. And what you are writing reflects on your country.
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I'd just as soon italy and the rest of the beggars handle their own affairs and we handle ours. Same with individuals here in the US. If you can't afford it then don't buy it. If you can't afford kids then don't have them. If you want socialism go to china.
While we are at it lets turn away all illegals at the hospital and clear the emergency rooms for emergencies only.
Ok too many others to list but that would be a start.
Im Italian (i live in Danmark tho), i dont recall Italy ask for any help fm anyone. I can assure u we can take care of it ourself. Beggars? Dont even want to comment this. I do agree with u ...we handle our own affairs u handle yours.
xxIENAxx
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Im Italian (i live in Danmark tho), i dont recall Italy ask for any help fm anyone. I can assure u we can take care of it ourself. Beggars? Dont even want to comment this. I do agree with u ...we handle our own affairs u handle yours.
xxIENAxx
Skuzzy, may I susgest that this threath is deleted in its entirety and this might turn into a PR nightmare.
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My dear fellow human beings from the United States:
The situation in Italy, although tragic, is managable, and will be Italian government that manages it. Any offers of help, however insignificant or extravagant, are a normal human reaction to a tragic. Sometimes in difficult situations, we like to know that we have people standing behind us if the situation calls for it.And so, we let people know that we are there for them.
Based on the overwhelming popular reaction in this forum, one can assume that my fellow human beings from the United States lack empathic. I know that is not the case. I have lived in the US. I know that Americans can be the warmest and simpatic people when the situation calls for.
Now, remember, this is the internet. Anyone in the world can see what you are writing. And what you are writing reflects on your country.
If you're not going to contribute anything to the conversation other than finger waggling & high-browing, then butt out.
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Boy, we're spending trillions on crapola everywhere here... but sending Italy a whopping fifty thousand dollars ? Would have been better to not send them anything at all rather than that amount. What a slap in the face. Sheesh.
On the other hand, they finally used a little moderation in spending (*rolls eyes*)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ikJZkXxJ8cJg2RvVbRTqZKEZwVqg
it's not our job to help the rest of the world. we have enough problems here at home that need fixing first.
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it's not our job to help the rest of the world. we have enough problems here at home that need fixing first.
I don't under any circumstances believe that we have an obligation to help anyone at all ~ ever.
What I think is ridiculous is that we make these kinds of meaningless gestures of generosity to give the appearance of being the kind, considerate neighbor ~ when in truth it doesn't mean a thing. If you're going to help, it should be for the purpose of making a difference... not just "oh, look! we're being nice again!" with an amount that is obviously laughable. :lol
Duh ~ the original post wasn't about the money ~ it was about the fake gesture of generosity. :lol
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If you're not going to contribute anything to the conversation other than finger waggling & high-browing, then butt out.
I hope you are again being sarcastic.
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I hope you are again being sarcastic.
No, I'm not.
Although, it was the other post of his that really was the one that prompted that reply from me... the one where he's telling Skuzzy to lock the thread so it doesn't become a PR nightmare.
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No, I'm not.
Then what did you find objectionable with Marauding Conan's post?
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Im finding it hard to understand too. Mom must have quoted a wrong reply.
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Go back up & read the edit from previous post. I probably shouldn't have told him to butt out though. His posts are just as obsure and meaningless as the rest of ours, regardless of how important he thinks the world may view any posts on this forum.
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Go back up & read the edit from previous post. I probably shouldn't have told him to butt out though. His posts are just as obsure and meaningless as the rest of ours, regardless of how important he thinks the world may view any posts on this forum.
What was obscure about my post?
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What was obscure about my post?
It wasn't a portion of your post that's obscure, it's the entirety of the posters & their remarks on this forum. Your notion that any of our posts here could possibly capture the interest of any PR of note and rain fire onto HTC as a result of what we're saying is just ridiculous. Yet you'd tell Skuzzy to delete the thread to deter the media-blitz? :lol
You ain't in the white glove circle around here.
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Marauding Conan, are you by any chance Italian? If you don't mind me asking.
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It wasn't a portion of your post that's obscure, it's the entirety of the posters & their remarks on this forum. Your notion that any of our posts here could possibly capture the interest of any PR of note and rain fire onto HTC as a result of what we're saying is just ridiculous. Yet you'd tell Skuzzy to delete the thread to deter the media-blitz? :lol
You ain't in the white glove circle around here.
Perhaps, but your posts is in a forum run by HT, thus reflecting on HT. There are a lot of non-US users in both this forums and clients of HT.
Irelevant of the issue that you might not care about what the world thinks of you. People are taking offense on some of the positions stated here (Just look at Iena's post). And it can only get worst. For a company that has clients across the world, that is not a good position to be at.
I am not here to lecture people. But, in a tragic situation like the Italians find themselves on, I don't think you should throw insults at them (for that matter ever; but this is particularly sensitive time). For HT point of view's, this might not be good time to allow "your clients" to trade insults in an open forum. This sort of situations can quickly get out of control.
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Marauding Conan, are you by any chance Italian? If you don't mind me asking.
I am not Italian. I am French.
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Perhaps, but your posts is in a forum run by HT, thus reflecting on HT. There are a lot of non-US users in both this forums and clients of HT.
Irelevant of the issue that you might not care about what the world thinks of you. People are taking offense on some of the positions stated here (Just look at Iena's post). And it can only get worst. For a company that has clients across the world, that is not a good position to be at.
I am not here to lecture people. But, in a tragic situation like the Italians find themselves on, I don't think you should throw insults at them (for that matter ever; but this is particularly sensitive time). For HT point of view's, this might not be good time to allow "your clients" to trade insults in an open forum. This sort of situations can quickly get out of control.
Your prior post stating that there would be a PR nightmare is a far cry from the post you've just placed. It's a great thing to not wish to offend other posters on this forum; or anyone else for that matter. It is indeed a tragedy that the Italians are going through.
As for insults getting out of control, you'll probably fare better checking yourself instead of the rest of us.
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I find no insult in his post. He even compliments Americans.
My dear fellow human beings from the United States:
The situation in Italy, although tragic, is managable, and will be Italian government that manages it. Any offers of help, however insignificant or extravagant, are a normal human reaction to a tragic. Sometimes in difficult situations, we like to know that we have people standing behind us if the situation calls for it.And so, we let people know that we are there for them.
Based on the overwhelming popular reaction in this forum, one can assume that my fellow human beings from the United States lack empathic. I know that is not the case. I have lived in the US. I know that Americans can be the warmest and simpatic people when the situation calls for.
Now, remember, this is the internet. Anyone in the world can see what you are writing. And what you are writing reflects on your country.