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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: funkedup on October 30, 2001, 04:32:00 PM

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on October 30, 2001, 04:32:00 PM

EDIT: I changed my question and my criterion.

Please nit-pick the following list. My criterion is squadron strength operations in a combat theater. I'm also interested in delivery dates in-theater, dates for production startup, etc.

A6M5b Jan-44
Ar 234B Dec-44
B-17G Jun-43
B-26B May-42
Bf 109F-4 Jun-41
Bf 109G-10 Oct-44
Bf 109G-2 Jul-42
Bf 109G-6 Mar-43
C.202 Jul-41
C.205 Jan-43
C-47A Dec-41
F4U-1 Jan-43
F4U-1C Apr-45
F4U-1D Apr-44
F4U-4 Apr-45
F6F-5 Jul-44
Fw 190A-5 Jan-43
Fw 190A-8 Jan-44
Fw 190D-9 Aug-44
Fw 190F-8 Mar-44
Hurricane IIc Apr-41
Hurricane IId Jun-42
Il-2 Type 3 Oct-42
Ju 88A-4 Dec-40
Ki-61-I-KAIc Nov-42
La-5FN Mar-43
La-7 Jun-44
Lancaster III Mar-42
Me 262 Apr-44
Mosquito Mk VI Jul-43
N1K2-J Feb-45
P-38L Jul-44
P-47D-11 Aug-43
P-47D-25 Jun-44
P-47D-30 Oct-44
P-51B Dec-43
P-51D Mar-44
Seafire IIc Oct-42
Spitfire IX Jul-42
Spitfire V Apr-41
Ta 152H Feb-45
TBM-3 Jan-42
Tempest V Apr-44
Typhoon IB Jun-42
Yak-9T Jan-43
Yak-9U Mar-44

[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Karnak on October 30, 2001, 04:40:00 PM

How picky you want us to be?

For example, the B-17G has a late model tail turret. This B-17G would not have been the one listed in the general B-17G service entry date.

You want the B-17G date or the Late Model B-17G date? Or is it our choice?

Edit:

Here's my Mossie data:

Mosquito Mk VI: July, 1943 in 157, 605 Squadrons, "De Havilland Mosquito" by Martin W. Bowman

I've got an errend to run, I'll look at more later.

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on October 30, 2001, 05:22:00 PM

Use the designation HTC uses. E.g. they call it a B-17G. So I want the first date that any subvariant of B-17G reached squadrons in Europe.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on October 30, 2001, 05:23:00 PM

Hi Funked,

since your post coincedes with the RPS discussion on this board, let me suggest that we should try to define the RPS principles before actually coming up with introduction dates.

Here are my ideas:

- The introduction dates should rely on actual combat missions of at least squadron strength.

- When mixing different theaters, aircraft of nations that at the time weren't at war should be introduced according to the date of reaching operational combat-readiness.

- The introduction dates for specific subtypes should flexibly take into account the introduction dates of earlier subtypes not modelled in the game. (Karnak already mentioned a B-17 example)

- Bomber/attack aircraft can be handled with greater flexibility than fighters due to the smaller type selection and the fact that they don't compete directly against each other.

- Jets may require playability compromises.

- Creativity can turn any RPS problem into an opportunity to improve overall gameplay :-)

I hope you find my suggestions interesting :-) Any comments would be appreciated!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on October 30, 2001, 06:30:00 PM

Hohun said:

Quote

The introduction dates should rely on actual combat missions of at least squadron strength.

I disagree a little with that, only because there are some aircraft (e.g. Ta 152H, Ar 234) in the planeset for which no evidence exists of squadron-strength usage! Hence my choice of delivery date in-theater. Otherwise we are in agreement.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Sancho on October 30, 2001, 07:48:00 PM

P-47D-25 should be June 1944, not '43.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Raubvogel on October 30, 2001, 10:57:00 PM

German stuff looks spot on. Not familiar enough with the other stuff. One note: that date for the Ar234 is correct, but it was for photo recon only. I believe the first bombing sorties weren't flown until August or September if we want to get real picky :)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Sundog on October 30, 2001, 11:10:00 PM

The Typhoon we have is a late model 1b. The version with your introduction date should be the early 1b version with the three bladed prop and still had the car-style doors. Also, the rocket's weren't available on the Tiffy until the Fall of 1943. The four bladed prop wasn't on production Tiffy's until 1944 (According to Squadron Signals In Action number 102 on the Tiffy and Tempest). :D Just being picky! Nice work Funked. I hadn't realized they threw those 20mms on the hurri so early as well.

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Sundog ]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: -ammo- on October 30, 2001, 11:53:00 PM

I think the P-51B showed in the UK for combat in late Decmeber 43, will find reference. I read it in P-47 book ;)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on October 31, 2001, 12:08:00 AM

Please be picky guys, that's why I posted the list. :)
Thanks!

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on October 31, 2001, 01:28:00 AM

Hi Funked,

>I disagree a little with that, only because there are some aircraft (e.g. Ta 152H, Ar 234) in the planeset for which no evidence exists of squadron-strength usage! Hence my choice of delivery date in-theater. Otherwise we are in agreement.

I'd rather make an exception for aircraft like these, if necessary, than to deviate from this rule. (In quite a few cases aircraft were delivered to the front before being actually operationally ready.)

However, the Focke-Wulf Ta 152H actually saw combat in squadron strength (probably for the first time) with III./JG301 on February 25, 1945. (Willi Reschke, "Jagdgeschwader JG301/302 'Wilde Sau'"). Later, operational losses reduced the number of available aircraft, restricting use of the Ta 152H to the Stabsschwarm only.

The Arado Ar 234B saw combat in squadron strength for the fist time on December 25, 1944, when III./KG76 launched an attack against Liege with 9 jet bombers. (Ethell/Price, "Deutsche Düsenflugzeuge im Kampfeinsatz").

Good list, by the way, it matches the dates I've found well, allowing for the usual error margin :-)

Some observations:

- 1st combat use of F4U-1 was February 1943 I thought?
- As far as I can tell, the Me 109G-10 was introduced in the second half of 1944 only
- The F6F date you give seems to be for the F6F-3 subvariant
- The Seafire IIc date seems to be that for the Ib variant.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: fats on October 31, 2001, 02:55:00 AM

The Prien & Rodeike book says G-10 production ran from October '44 until the end of war. No mentioning of first deliveries, but I imagine if they manufactured ~2600 of these during that time it didn't take long before the first were delivered

// fats

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: gatt on October 31, 2001, 05:23:00 AM

Heya Funked,

- yes, the C.202 was operational at 1° and 4° Stormo during july-august 1941;
- actually, the C.205 was operational (again) at 1° and 4° Stormo during january-february 1943.

Good work! :)

[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: gatt ]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: R4M on October 31, 2001, 07:03:00 AM

nitpick mode ON:

the A6M5a was in service in late-43 but the -b was not in service until early January, I think. Both planes had differences in weapons (and protection too, I think)

Ar-234 was used in July -44 for recce over Normandy but as bomber was not used until very very late '44. Not sure bout the exac date.

Several sources I've read list the 109G2 as an EARLY 1942 plane and the 109G6 as a LATE 1942 plane. Not sure about those two, tho.

F4U-1 didnt see any operational usage until early 1943

F6F-3's first operatios were in early-mid 1943. not sure about F6F-5 but for sure Oct-42 is a very very early time even for a F3 IMO.

The Lancaster we have is a very late war one. Same goes for typhoon.

And the few things I've read about russian planes say it was a 1945 plane. But I can be VERY wrong on this one (we discussed it online yesterday).

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: csThor on October 31, 2001, 07:05:00 AM

AFAIK the first La5FN entered service just prior ot Kursk Battle. The ones before were either La5 or La5F ...

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: straffo on October 31, 2001, 07:16:00 AM

Yak-9U Apr-44
March 1944 in my book

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: F4UDOA on October 31, 2001, 09:02:00 AM

Heya,

F4U-1
First Production delivery July 1942
First Corsair Squad commision Sept 1942
Dec 1942 VMF 122 is declared operational and in Jan they sail for Gaudacanal.

F6F-5
April 1944 the first F6F-5 is produced.
July First combat for F6F-5

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: fats on October 31, 2001, 10:22:00 AM

Prien & Rodeike:

<edit>
Bf 109F-4:
Deliveries of the second major production variant, the F-4, began shortly after the appearance of the F-2; the first F-4 reached front-line units in June 1941.
</edit>

Bf 109G-2:
Deliveries of the G-2 to the Jagdgeschwader began June 1942. The first mention of a G-2 loss reports appears on July 7, 1942, when 3./JG 54 reported Werknummer 10335 damaged.

Bf 109G-6
The G-6 begun reaching front-line units in February 1943. [ ... ] The first recorded loss of a G-6 occured on March 4, 1943 when Uffz. Opitz of 5./JG 53 was shot down in air combat and forced to bail out of his arcraft, Werknummer 16307.

// fats

[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: fats ]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on October 31, 2001, 03:25:00 PM

Thanks guys, keep 'em coming. Give me the author and title of book you are quoting (or URL if web source).

Anybody have a good date for the N1K2-J? I pulled that one out of my crack. :)

[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on October 31, 2001, 03:32:00 PM

PS Hohun you have persuaded me. First squadron strength mission in-theater is fine by me. Actually seems to be easier to find than delivery dates in a lot of cases.

And yes I agree that the dates should be altered to make a good RPS. Certainly P-47D-11 can play as a P-47C, F6F-5 can be an F6F-3, Fw 190A-5 can be an Fw 190A-3, A6M5b can be an earlier A6M, etc. But I want to get all the actual dates figured out first.

[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: -tronski- on October 31, 2001, 08:46:00 PM

Quote

Originally posted by funkedup:
PS Hohun you have persuaded me. First squadron strength mission in-theater is fine by me. Actually seems to be easier to find than delivery dates in a lot of cases.

Delivery dates are a pain , because often being delivered to a unit didn't mean that 'squadron' was on operations. Often quite a bit of time could past before that squadron was fully operational.
This is where all the usual arguments begin. The time difference between when the factory churned them out, and actual operational missions began.

Even worse when people want the date pushed up to when the a/c was still on paper! :D

Tronsky

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: R4M on November 01, 2001, 09:27:00 AM

Quote

Originally posted by -tronski-:

Even worse when people want the date pushed up to when the a/c was still on paper! :D

Tronsky

Fw190 in 1940!!!!!!! YESSSSSSSS!

:D

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Wutz on November 01, 2001, 11:47:00 AM

FUNKEDUP

The Kawanishi N1K2-J "Shiden Kai" Violet lightning modified

Maiden Flight 31.December 1943. Navy Trials in March/April 1944. Production started June 1944. First IJN Kokutai recived it Oktober 1944. N1K2-J: N=Float plane figther:K=Kawanishi :-J=Modifed too Landbased Figther.

The Kawanishi N1K1-J "Shiden" Violet lightning

Maiden Flight 27.December 1942. Trials July 1943. Improved version allowd production November 1943. Enterd Service May 1944.

Not much difference between N1k1 and N1k2 K2 10 mph faster, improved alt perfmns (not much) 4x20mm on K2 vs 4x20mm and 2x7,7mm on K1. K2 also ability too carry bombs.

Considerd by the Allies too be superior too the F6F Hellcat and equal too the P51D Mustang.

16.February 1945 over yokohama, Warrant officer Kinsuke Muto of the 343rd Kokutai in an N1K2-J singel handedly battled a dozen F6F Hellcats. He shoot down 4, and forced the rest too break off and return too their carrier.

Perhaps the N1K2-J in AH is in fact that good because it was that good :rolleyes:

1453 Bulit (415 of them N1K2)

Hope this is what you needed

Wutz

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on November 01, 2001, 01:01:00 PM

I'm going to put Feb 45 for the N1K2-J. I bet it was in action earlier, though. And since there is not a large functional difference between N1K2-J and N1K1-J, I think the May 44 date would be acceptable to RPS designers.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Sancho on November 01, 2001, 02:25:00 PM

As Funked noted above, the P-47D-11 can stand in for a P-47C. The -11 minus paddle blade prop is not significantly different from the C and early D variants that preceded it. For RPS purposes, the P-47 debuted in ETO combat on 10 March 1943. Source: Air War Europa, Eric Hammel.

Ammo's got my P-47 in the Pacific book so I can't tell ya exactly when they kicked off over there... but I know Kearby's (http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/0887valor.html) 348th FG arrived with their jugs in Australia on 30 June '43 and their first combat was on 16 August.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on November 01, 2001, 02:57:00 PM

To follow up on your post Sancho, it looks like Kearby's Jugs were D-2's: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic6.html (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic6.html)

And they were the first Jugs to operate in PTO: http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_15.html (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_15.html)

[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on November 01, 2001, 06:28:00 PM

Hi Fats,

>The Prien & Rodeike book says G-10 production ran from October '44 until the end of war.

"Flugzeug Profile Messerschmitt Bf 109G/K" by Manfred Griehl confirms that (as "late summer").

It also lists the very similar Me 109G-14 as being delivered from June 1944 on.

Delivery of the Me 109K-4 started in October 1944, at the same time as that of the Me 109G-10.

(The K-4 featured aerodynamic refinements over the G-10 as well as an enlarged radiator that permitted the use of higher power settings.)

Griehl also quotes an OKL report (Br.B.Nr. 1561/45 gKdos from 20.03.1945) on the equipment of the Luftwaffe's fighter arm that indicates that in addition to the existing 8 Gruppen of Me 109K-4 fighters, all 3 Gruppen of KG(J) 30 were to be equipped with the Me 109K-4/R6 - the GM-1 boosted variant of the K-4. However, according to the report KG(J) 30 hadn't received their aircraft at least until mid-February 1945.

Here's a breakdown of the Luftwaffe fighter arm by number of Gruppen as given by the OKL report:

Bf 109G-10/R6: 7
Bf 109G-14/AS: 2
Bf 109K-4/G-10: 8

Fw 190A-8/A-9: 9
Fw 190A-9/R11: 1
Fw 190 (Sturm): 3
Fw 190D-9: 4

Me 262A-1a: 5

Some observations:

- There were as many Fw 190 units as Me 109 units.
- There were more Me 109 bomber destroyer units than Fw 190 Sturm units.
- Me 109G-10/Me 109K-4 and Fw 190A-8/A-9 were listed in combination only despite their respective differences.

(I seem to notice slight contradictions to a earlier OKL report also quoted by Griehl, so numbers should be taken as approximation.)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on November 01, 2001, 06:38:00 PM

Hi R4M,

>Several sources I've read list the 109G2 as an EARLY 1942 plane and the 109G6 as a LATE 1942 plane. Not sure about those two, tho.

I noted an introduction date of May 1942 for the Me 109G-1/G-2 (which were built in parallel) with Kennet A. Merrick, "German Aircraft Interiors" as source, though I haven't the book here to confirm it.

The Me 109G-6 according to "Flugzeug Profile" by Manfred Griehl was introduced in February 1943, with its the G-5 high-altitude counterpart coming much later ("autumn 1943").

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on November 01, 2001, 06:52:00 PM

Hi,

Here are some Fw 190 dates, too:

Fw 190A-1: 08/1941
Fw 190A-2: 11/1941
Fw 190A-3: 03/1942
Fw 190A-4: 08/1942
Fw 190A-5: 03/1943
Fw 190A-6: 08/1943
Fw 190A-7: 12/1943
Fw 190A-8: 02/1944
Fw 190D-9: 09/1944
Ta 152H-1: 02/1945

Some comments:

- I'm not quite sure what the difference between the Fw 190A-3 and the A-4 was, they both seem to have been very similar. The A-5 had the extended nose to improve the centre-of-gravity situation but was identical otherwise - or so I think.

- I've seen early 1944 quoted for the Fw 190D-9, but I'm certain that this is a mistake.

Sources were David Donald's "Jäger", Paul Simsa's "Fw 190", and Reschke's "JG 300/301" for the Ta 152H.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on November 01, 2001, 07:20:00 PM

Hohun

What is the source for those 190 dates?

To answer your quesiton:

A-4 changes from A-3

Visible changes:
-Addition of antenna mount on fin.
-Cooling slots replaced by cooling shutters.

Other changes:
-New radio.
-(Some sources) Changes to engine permitting use of water injection (MW 50). But the more research I do on that topic, the less I find about! :)

In terms of how they would be modelled in AH, they are the same aircraft. And they are both so similar to A-5 that A-3/A-4/A-5 can be interchanged without upsetting play balance IMHO.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on November 01, 2001, 07:37:00 PM

Hi Funked,

>What is the source for those 190 dates?

>Sources were David Donald's "Jäger", Paul Simsa's "Fw 190", and Reschke's "JG 300/301" for the Ta 152H.

:-)

>-(Some sources) Changes to engine permitting use of water injection (MW 50). But the more research I do on that topic, the less I find about!

It's the same here :-) I've also heard that the A-3 used the derated BMW801Dg engine, but this should have applied to the very first engines only, and the A-3 was a major production variant.

I've also read that the A-4's engine controls permitted more manual inputs, but I'm not sure what to think about that, either.

I'm still puzzled, maybe the differences you've listed were indeed all there was.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Sundog on November 01, 2001, 11:46:00 PM

According to Squadron Signal's, 'Walk Around Number 10, Fw-190D' and also according to Schiffer Military History's, 'Kurt Tank: Focke-Wulf's Designer and Test Pilot', by Wolfgang Wagner the Dora began entering squadron service during August of 1944.

According to another Schiffer Military History Book, 'Focke-Wulf Ta-152' by Dietmar Harmann, the Ta-152H began to be delivered to Squadrons in late November of 1944, but didn't actually begin operations in some strength until January of 1945.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on November 02, 2001, 12:00:00 AM

I have a simple explanation for the derated engines on Fw 190A-3. A-2 and earlier used the BMW 801C which ran on B4 fuel (87 octane). A-3 used the 801D which required C3 fuel (100 octane). I think at this time it was the only front line fighter requiring C3 fuel. So it seems possible that logistics dictated the use of B4 fuel for a short period after the introduction of the 801D engine. Using B4 fuel in the 801D would require engine operation at less than maximum boost, in other words derating the engine.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: csThor on November 02, 2001, 01:42:00 AM

Well you cannot use the A5 for A4 or A3 as it was significantly changed in appearance. The engine cowling was stretched by 13,5cm so the cockpit was shifted back and an additional counter-weight had to be installed into the aft part of the fuselage due to the changed COG.

The difference between an A-3 and an A-4 was, that the A-3 had the old FuG VIIa, while the A-4 had the new FuG 16z resulting in a different antenna.

Additionally the A-4 had the possibility to be fitted with MW-50, but I never found reports of the use of this system prior to A-8.

[ 11-02-2001: Message edited by: csThor ]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on November 02, 2001, 02:25:00 AM

Hi Sundog,

>According to Squadron Signal's, 'Walk Around Number 10, Fw-190D' and also according to Schiffer Military History's, 'Kurt Tank: Focke-Wulf's Designer and Test Pilot', by Wolfgang Wagner the Dora began entering squadron service during August of 1944.

There certainly is considerable confusion about the Fw 190D-9 service entry date so I'm sure even otherwise reliable sources reflect that. However, the Luftwaffe made the Fw 190D-9 type acceptance flight only in September 1944, and series production could have only started after that.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on November 02, 2001, 02:31:00 AM

Hi Funked,

>A-2 and earlier used the BMW 801C which ran on B4 fuel (87 octane). A-3 used the 801D which required C3 fuel (100 octane). I think at this time it was the only front line fighter requiring C3 fuel.

Interesting point, I hadn't considered that.

It could be you're right with regard to fuel logistics, but the Fw 190A-3 at that time was not the only fighter to need C3 fuel - the Me 109E-7 and the Me 109F-2 with their DB601N engine also flew on 100 octane.

From what I've read, it was more an engine development problem - the BMW801 was a bit troublesome early on.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: csThor on November 02, 2001, 02:38:00 AM

But you should remember that when the A-3/A-4 appeared the majority of the fighters in the West were already 190s and so the logistic may have been incapable of delivering sufficient amounts of C3 fuel. Just a wild guess...

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on November 02, 2001, 02:38:00 AM

Hi Csthor,

>Well you cannot use the A5 for A4 or A3 as it was significantly changed in appearance. The engine cowling was stretched by 13,5cm so the cockpit was shifted back and an additional counter-weight had to be installed into the aft part of the fuselage due to the changed COG.

Personally, I couldn't notice a 13.5 cm difference on a 10 m aircraft without the help of a yardstick :-)

I had thought the change was made to solve a centre-of-gravity problems, not to create one?

>Additionally the A-4 had the possibility to be fitted with MW-50, but I never found reports of the use of this system prior to A-8.

I've to say I've found very little even on the Fw 190A-8. All I've seen are documents on C3 fuel injection (by the same system and for a similar effect as with MW50 injection) and speed curves with GM-1 injection at high altitude as well as a GM-1 power curve in the engine calibration chart.

Any information on this topic would be highly welcome!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Buzzbait on November 02, 2001, 02:57:00 AM

S!

354th Fighter Group received its P-51b Mustangs at Boxted A.F. base in November '43. They flew their first combat mission on December 1st 1943.

Sanchez is close to being correct about the D11. The Razorback D's were operating from approx. May of '43. The models upgraded with water injection, (of which the D11 was the first to come from the factory already equipped with) got into operation in mid summer '43. August 1st would be good date to allow use of the D11.

Cheers Buzzbait

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: csThor on November 02, 2001, 03:33:00 AM

With the A-5 the engine cowling was lengthened AND the cockpiut was shifted back. The main reason was a somewhat unfortunate COG in the first production batches and of course a reduction of heat in the cockpit. Additionally the cooling system and the O² system were changed and modernized.

Private for Ho-Hun: Schau dir mal Tempers 190 page an. Sehr informativ. http://www.focke-wulf190.de (http://www.focke-wulf190.de) ...

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Wutz on November 02, 2001, 07:39:00 AM

FOCKE-WULF 190 A-3
Beginning in the spring of 1942, series production of a more powerful engine version BMW 801D-2 that replaced previous versions in the Fw 190Fighter created a new plane version designated as Fw 190A-3. The increase in the BMW 801D-2 engine power (to 1730 kW) was due to a higher compression ratio and higher pressure two-speed compressor. A higher compression ratio and charging pressure made it necessary to use high-octane (96 octane) C3 fuel in place of B4 (87 octane) fuel. Armament of standard Fw 190A-3 planes was the same as in the previous version. Starting from this version, A series airframes were widely used in a big development program with the aim of finding the optimum armament and equipment mix that made it possible to broaden the operational capabilities of the plane beyond fighter operations. The largest part of these modifications were in the form of Umrustbausatz kits, but some did not have special designations and can be recognized only from photographs. The total number of such modified planes is unknown. The best known are the Fw 190A-3 with an under-fuselage mounted bomb rack ETC 501 for carriage of 500 kg of bombs (1x500 kg, 2x250 kg or 4x50 kg on the ER4 adapter) or an external drop tank of 300 liters capacity for long range fighters. Some planes used only for fighter operations (without bomb racks) had a reduced armament by removal of wing mounted MG FF cannons, which was not reflected in a designation. Moreover, 72 Fw 190Aa-3 (a=auslandisch-foreign) planes were produced. These were exported to Turkey during October 1942 - March 1943. Most of them had the same armament as the A-1 version e.g. 1x4 MG 17 machine guns and 2x1 MG FF cannon, and for obvious reason there was no FuG 25 IFF device in the radio equipment.
In addition to the previously described modification kits designed for the Fw 190A-3 and later versions other kits Umrustbausatz were prepared; but we must admit that most were unrealized projects or experimental planes that existed only in one or two copies: Fw 190A-3/U1 - only one built, experimental plane (W.Nr. 130270, PG+GY) with engine mount extended for 15 cm. It was used as a prototype of the A-5 version, Fw 190A-3/U2 - underwing mounted unguided missile RZ 65 73 mm racks tested on the plane W.Nr. 130386, Fw 190A-3/U3 - reconnaissance fighter with Rb 50/30 cameras mounted in the fuselage; armament reduced by removing MG FF cannons, one built, Fw 190A-3/U4 reconnaissance fighter with two Rb 12.5/7x9 cameras mounted in the fuselage and camera gun EK 16 or miniature camera Robot II in the leading edge of the left wing root; armament as in U3 version, additional under fuselage mounted ETC 501 bomb rack with stabilizer strips for 300 liter fuel tank.

Twelve planes built, Fw 190A-3/U7 - attempt to create a new high altitude fighter, with reduced weight, with armament consisting of only two MG 151/20 E cannons. Only three planes built (W.Nr. 130528, -530 and -531); they can be recognized by external charger air inlets on both engine cowling sides.

FOCKE-WULF 190 A-4
In July 1942, the A-3 was replaced on the production lines by the newer Fw 190A-4 version. The main difference was an BMW 801 D-2 engine adapted to use with a MW 50 system for short period engine power increase by injection of a water-methanol (methyl alcohol CH3OH) mixture in the proportion of 1:1. In this way it was possible to raise engine power to 2100 kW for 10 minutes, after which a high probability of engine failure prevented longer use. Due to delays in MW 50 device production, this system was not mounted on the Fw 190A-4 engines, which had the capability to accept this system. It was not used and only A-8 and later series planes would use the advantages of this invention.
Another difference in the A-4 variant was the replacement of the FuG 7a radio set by the more modern FuG 16z. A less important change was that the vertical line antenna mount was placed on the fin; this made it easier to distinguish between A-4 and A-3 versions. In the case of the A-2 and A-3 versions, it is often difficult to tell them apart. During production, in some Fw 190s another modification was applied. In place of the ventilation slots, engine cowling shutters controlled from the cockpit were installed. The pilot could precisely control the engine temperature by regulation of the shutters. In consideration of increasing number of planes ordered another group of factories and companies started licence production (among others Fiesler in Kassel-Waldau).

Most Fw 190A-4 planes were used with reduced armament, without MG FF cannons. Trials with different variants of armament and equipment, generally with Umrustbausatz kits use, produced the following versions: Fw 190A-4/U1 - bomber-fighter with an under-fuselage mounted ETC 501 bomb rack and reduced armament (without MG FF cannons). As a result of small deliveries of BMW 801 D-2 engines in the autumn of 1943, several dozens of these planes got older C-2 version engines, Fw 190A-4/U3 - bomber-fighter with armament as in the U1 version, but with BMW 801 D-2 engine. Planes for night operation got a landing light, mounted in the leading edge of the left wing root. Designation was later changed to F-1 and in the future the plane was developed as a new attack Fw 190F version, Fw 190A-4/U4 - reconnaissance fighter with two Rb 12.5/7x9 cameras and without MG FF cannons, Fw 190A-4/U8 - long range fighter-bomber with two drop tanks of 300 liter capacity each, mounted under the wings (on the VTr-Ju 87 racks produced by Weserflug company, with duralumin fairings); bombs were placed on the under-fuselage ETC 501 rack. In an attempt to reduce weight, only two MG 151/20 E cannons were retained. This modification was a prototype of a new fighter-bomber Fw 190G version and its first variant (G-1) simultaneously. There also existed a transitional variant (probably in one copy) with modernized V. Mtt-Schlos type racks for underwing fuel tanks; armament: 2x1 MG 17 and 2x1 MG 151/20E, In addition to the Umrustbausatz modifications, from the Fw 190A-4 planes, easier to install Rustsatz (R) kits were produced. Sometimes, the set could be mounted in the field workshops but the plane could also be previously prepared in the factory for such kit application. We must refute the myth of the exceptional ease of application and interchangeability with other kits in particular planes, especially since some of them were as complicated as U kits, More than once, classification to U or R group was just for convenience, later most of the U versions was redesignated as R versions. The first kit widely used was a two tube air-to-air missile launcher W.Gr. 21 210 mm destined for destroying defence formations used by USAAF bomber aircraft. Planes so equipped were designated Fw 190A-4/R6. Some authors have told about the existence of a Fw 190A-4/R1 variant, with the FuG 16 ZE radioset and Morane type antenna installed under the left wing. Very small numbers of such planes existed, but it has not been fully confirmed that it had its own destination in U or R kits. Total production of Fw 190A-4 planes came to more than 900 .

FOCKE-WULF 190 A-5
On the basis of data collected during tests of the experimental Fw 190A3/U1, Blaser's designer team became convinced that the planned additional armament would move the plane center of gravity forward. The best solution to offset this was to move the engine forward. This was done with a 15 cm steel tube engine mount extension. This change (new engine mount) was introduced on the all production lines. This also led to an increase of the plane length to 9.10 m and gave life to the new Fw 190A-5 variant that from November 1942 replaced previous the A-4. In the A-5 also introduced small changes in the equipment (e.g. a new electrical artificial horizon and modernized oxygen respirator, and wide use of the FuG 25a IFF device). In the rear fuselage section was slightly moved back and the equipment compartment cover was enlarged. Standard armament did not change and it remained 2x1 MG 17, 2x1 MG 151/20 E , 2x1 MG FF. Proper airframe design provisions meant that the Fw 190A-5 plane was prepared from the beginning to accommodate a large number of Umrustbausatz kits

Should be all the info you need on the Fw190 A3-A4-A5

Wutz
Lachend hinauf, verbissen drauf, wackelnd zurück, Jagdfliegerglück !

[/LIST]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on November 03, 2001, 03:33:00 PM

Hi Wutz,

excellent information, thanks!

>The increase in the BMW 801D-2 engine power (to 1730 kW)

>In this way it was possible to raise engine power to 2100 kW for 10 minutes

You mean HP instead of kW in both cases I guess?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on November 03, 2001, 05:28:00 PM

Yes, Joe Baugher meant hp not kW. :)
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/fw190.html#RTFToC1 (http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/fw190.html#RTFToC1)

[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on November 03, 2001, 08:07:00 PM

Hi,

here's some Spitfire data:

Spitfire I: 9/1939 (well, in service even earlier)
Spitfire II: 6/1940
Spitfire V: 4/1941
Spitfire IX: 7/1942
Spitfire LF IX: 3/1943 (with 611 Squadron)
Spitfire HF IX: 4/1943 (with 74 Squadron)
Spitfire XIV: 3/1944 (first mission)

Main source: Chaz Bowyer, "Supermarine Spitfire". The LF/HF IX and XIV are from BBS posts which I didn't file away properly :-( Perhaps someone else can confirm these dates?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on November 04, 2001, 01:42:00 PM

Duly noted.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: fats on November 04, 2001, 06:29:00 PM

The book I used is:

Messershcmitt Bf 109 F, G, & K Series An Illustrated Study by Jochen Prien & Peter Rodeike
published by schiffer publishing ltd.

ISBN: 0-88740-424-3

// fats

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: mw on November 09, 2001, 07:33:00 AM

Interesting discussion group ;)

Re: the Typhoon IB, operational patrols of less than squadron strength began in May 42. First squadron strength mission over enemy territory: Circus 193 on 20 June 42 by Nos, 56 and 266 Sqdn. First complete wing strength operation: Dieppe 19 Aug 42 Nos. 56, 266, 609.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on November 09, 2001, 01:55:00 PM

THX MW :)

Anybody have a date for Lancaster III? I know it's just a Lancaster I with Packard Merlins but I still want a Mk. III date. :)

[ 11-09-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Tilt on November 09, 2001, 04:38:00 PM

My criterion is squadron strength operations in a combat theater.

Il-2 Type 3 Aug-42

1st combat 30th october 42 at Stalingrad probably up to squadron strength by mid november.

La-7 May-44

Late June really. the first regiment to convert to La7's was 19IAP (almost immediatly renamed 176GIAP) on 16th June 44. 1st combat on 24th June. Two FW190 were shot down by Petrov and Baklan. The first planes to fall victim to the La7

Tilt

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on November 09, 2001, 05:01:00 PM

Thanks Tilt!
Have you a source for those claims?

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on November 11, 2001, 04:26:00 PM

Hi Funked,

Here are some (production) dates for Fw 190 Rüstsätze:

R1: 06/1943 (4 x ETC 50)
R2: 12/1943 (2 MK108 in outer wings)
U1: 03/1944 (conversion of F-8 to G-8. Don't confuse with U1 two-seater :-)
R11: 08/1944 (all-weather fighter)
R8: 12/1944 (2 MK108 in outer wings, improved installation)

I'm not sure about the following:

U3: Jabo conversion with fuselage and 2 - 4 wing bomb racks
U8: long range conversion fuselage bomb rack and 2 outer wing bomb racks for drop tanks or SC250
U12: as U8, but with improved wing racks

Source is Paul Simsa, "Focke-Wulf Fw 190".

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Wotan on November 14, 2001, 04:04:00 AM

Fighter Aircraft Chronology WWII:

'31 - B 34 (Avia 534) first flight
Aug '31 - P.11/I first flight
Mar '32 - Model 248 (P-26) first flight
Jun '32 - D.500 first flight
Nov '32 - He 49a first flight
Feb '33 - He 49B first flight
May '33 - He 51A-0 first flight
Jun '33 - P.11a first production flight
Aug '33 - B 534 first flight; C.R.32 first flight
Oct '33 - I-15/TsKB-3 first flight; XF2F-1 first flight
Dec '33 - I-16 first flight (20,000 built); P-26A first delivered
Jan '34 - P-26A first production flight
Jun '34 - P-26A final delivery
Jul '34 - He 51A-1 service delivery
fall '34 - I-16-1 delivery begins
Sep '34 - Gloster SS 37 (Gladiator) prototype first flight
Jan '35 - P-26B first flight; F2F-1 first delivered
Feb '35 - A5M first flight
Mar '35 - XF3F-1 first flight
May '35 - Curtis Model 75 first flight
Jun '35 - P-26B first delivery; XF3F-1 final delivery (3 total) summer '35 - He 112 V1 completed
Jul '35 - I-15-5 production begins
Aug '35 - MS 405 first flight; SEV-1XP first flight fall '35 - I-15-4 delivey begins
Sep '35 - Bf 109 V1 first flight; F2F-1 final delivery
Nov '35 - Hurricane first flight; He 112 V2 completed
Dec '35 - He 112 V3 delivered
Jan '36 - F3F-1 delivery begins
Feb '36 - P-26C first delivery
Mar '36 - Fokker D.XXI first flight; Curtis Model 75B first flight; Vought V-141 first flight
Spring '36 - A5M enters service (1094 built)
April '36 - Potez 630 first flight
May '36 - Bf 110V-1 first flight
Jun '36 - 600 Hurricane I ordered; Bloch MB-150 attempted first flight (failed); Gladiator I first flight; XF3F-2 first flight
Sep '36 - F3F-1 final delivery (54 built)
Oct '36 - Ki-27 first flight
Nov '36 - Bf 109B-0 first flight
Jan '37 - Gladiator Mk I enters service (527 built in three Mks); Bf 109 V4,5,6 enter service with Legion Condor in Spain; Y1P-36 first delivery; XF3F-1 delivery begins
Feb '37 - G.50 first flight; Blackburn Skua first flight; Bf 109B-1 deliveries begin; Y1P-36 first flight
Mar '37 - Sea Gladiator first service deliveries; Fokker G.1 first flight; P-26C final delivery spring '37 - Fw 187 V1 first flight
Apr '37 - YP-37 first flight
Jun '37 - Vought V-143 first flight
Summer '37 - Bf 109B-2 deliveries begin
Jul '37 - P-35 delivery begins; He 112VB-0 (V9) first flight
Aug '37 - Boulton Pau Defiant first flight; Bf 110A-0 first pre-production delivered
Sep '37 - XF4F-2 Þrst þight (1 built); XFM-1 Airacuda first flight; XNF-1 (navalised P-35) first flight
Oct '37 - Hurricane Mk I delivered; Bloch MB-150 first flight
Dec '37 - Hurricane Mk I enters Squadron service; M.C. 200 first flight
Jan '38 - Fokker D.XXI service deliveries begin (Dutch); He 100 V1 first flight

Feb '38 - Potez 630 enters production (1100+ built); MS 405 production first flight
Spring '38 - Bf 109C-1/2 deliveries begin; Bf 109D-1 deliveries begin; He 112B-0 12 delivered to Japan
April '38 - P-36A delivered
May '38 - MS 406 first flight; CR 42 first flight; Curtis H-75A1 ordered by France; Fokker G.1 service
deliveries begin; F3F-2 final delivery
Jun '38 - Fokker D.XXI service deliveries begin (Finland, 38 delivered)
Jun '38 - Spitfire Mk I enters service; Model 75M delivery begins Summer '38 - Bf 109 V14 (Bf 109E) first
flight; Fw 187A-9 delivered (3 built)
Jul '38 - He 112B-0 temporarily assigned to III/JG 132; Bf 110B-1 delivery begins (45 built)
Aug '38 - Bloch MB-151 first flight; P-35 final delivery; He 100B-0 (V4) delivered; Me 209 V1 first flight
Oct '38 - XP-40 delivered (1 built); D.520 first flight; Westland Whirlwind first flight (112 built); CW-21
first flight
Nov '38 - Blackburn Skua enters service (190 built); one P-36B converted from P-36A; Model 75Q
delivery begins
Dec '38 - XF2A-1 delivered (1 built); MS 406 enters Squadron service (1081 built); Blackburn Roc first
flight (136 built); Bloch MB-152 first flight; Potez 63.11 first flight; P-36C delivery begins;
F3F-3 delivery begins late '38 - IAR.80 first flight
Jan '39 - G.50 begins operational evaluation in Spain; Ki-43 first flight; Ki-45 first flight (Ha-20 engine);
MS 406 production first flight; Bf 110C-0 pre-production begins service trials
Feb '39 - Bf 109E-1 enters service; Bf 110C-0 pre-production first flight; XF4F-3 first flight
Mar '39 - I-22/Lagg-3 first flight; XP-41 first flight; XP-42 first flight; MS 406 deliveries begin; Ki-27b
service delivery begins; He 100 V6 and V7 delivered; He 100 V8 sets airspeed record of 463.92
Apr '39 - XP-39 delivered (1 built); 47 of 61 P-36A in US grounded due to problems; Bf 110C-1 begins
operational service; Blackburn Roc service deliveries begin; A6M first flight; Me 209 sets
airspeed record of 469.22 mph
Spring '39 - CR 42 enters service; He 112B-0 delivered to Romania
May '39 - Re.2000 first flight; 100 H-75A1 have been completed by France; F3F-3 final delivery; Me 209
V4 delivered
Jun '39 - F2A-1 delivered (11 built); Fw 190 V1 (BMW 139) first flight summer '39 - He 100D-0 first flight
Jul '39 - XF2A-2 delivered (1 built); Bristol Beaufighter first flight; first production Defiant flight
Aug '39 - XP-38 delivered (1 built)
Sep '39 - Me 210V-1 first flight; Vultee 48 (P-66 Vanguard) first flight
Oct '39 - Tornado first flight; C.R.32 final delivery; M.C.200 service deliveries begin (1,151 built)
Nov '39 - XP-39B delivered (1 converted)
Winter '39 - Bf 109E-3 production begins
Dec '39 - Bloch MB-155 first flight; Defiant first service delivery; A5M final delivery; A6M2 first flight
Jan '40 - B-239 delivered (44 built); I-26 prototype delivered (Yak); Fairy Fulmar first flight; Mosquito
prototype first flight
Feb '40 - Typhoon first flight; D.520 service deliveries begin (740 built); Mohawk III (Model H-75A-3)
delivery begins; F4F-3 delivery begins (285 built); EP-106 (P-35A) delivery begins (60 delivered
to Sweden)
Mar '40 - Mig-1 first flight; Mohawk IV (Model 75A-4) delivery begins; XF5F-1 first flight
Apr '40 - B239B delivered (40 built); last Sea Gladiator deliveries
May '40 - Buffalo I delivered (170 built); XF4U-1 Þrst þight (1 built); Boulton Paul Defiant enters service
(1064 built); Beaufighter Mk I first production flight; Fairy Fulmar first service deliveries;
XFL-1 (navalised P-39) first flight; Martlet I first flight; He 100D-0 delivered to Japan (3)
Jun '40 - P-40 delivered (200 built); Fairy Fulmar enters service (602 built); Hurricane II first flight;
Westland Whirlwind service deliveries begin; Pe-2 first flight; XFM1-1B first delivery; CW-21B
first delivery; XF4F-5 first flight
Summer '40 - Bf 109E-4 production begins

Jul '40 - Martlet I delivered (81 built); XF4F-5 delivered (2 built); Re.2001 first flight; Beaufighter Mk I
service deliveries begin; Ki-45 first flight (Ha-25 engine); A6M1 service delivery begins; two
squadrons pre-production A6M sent to China; Ki-27 final delivery; XF4F-5 delivered to
USN (2 built); Bf 110C-4 begins operational service
Aug '40 - F4F-3 delivered (285 built); Hurricane Mk II enters service; M.C. 202 first flight ; Ki-44 first
flight; Bf 109 E-7 enters service; XF1M-1A first delivery
fall '40 - Do 17Z night fighter conversions begin
Sep '40 - YP-38 delivered (13 built); YP-39 delivered (13 built); P-40A (Tomahawk I/Ia/Ib) delivered (140
built); F2A-2 delivered (43 built); Bristol Beaufighter Mk I enters service (5562 built of all
marks); first YP-43 delivered to USAAC; G.50bis first flight; Mig-1 first production flight;
Martlet I final delivery; He 280 first unpowered flight; Ju 88C-2 in service with I/NJG 2
Oct '40 - Tomahawk IIa delivered (110 built); NA-73X (Mustang) delivered (1 built); P-40 final delivery
Nov '40 - XF4F-6 delivered (1 built); I-26 pre-production aircraft delivered; first deliveries of Fw 190A-0;
Bf 109F-1 deliveries begin
Dec '40 - 64 I-26 delivered by end of month
late '40 - Lagg-1 first production flight; Do 215B-5 enters operational service
Jan '41 - P-39C delivered (20 built); P-40B delivered (131 built)
Feb '41 - XP-46A first flight; XP-50 first flight; P-35A final delivery (60 built)
Mar '41 - P-40C delivered (193 built); B-339D delivered (72 built); Martlet II delivered (100 built);
Martlett III delivered (30 built); SpitÞre V entered service; Bf 109F-1/2 enters service with JG 2;
first six Fw 190A-0 delivered for service testing; Ki-60 first flight; Ki-43-I first production
flight; F4F-3A delivery begins; Do 217E-1 enters service as night fighter; Mig-3 enters service
Apr '41 - P-39D delivered (863 built); Bf 109F-1/2 enters service with JG 26; Me 210A-0 first flight; Me
262V-1 first flight (piston engine); He 280 first powered flight; Ju 88C-6 arrives in the Med for
I/NJG 2
May '41 - Tomahawk IIb delivered (930 built); YP-47 Þrst þight (1 built); XF4F-4 delivered (1 built); first
production Typhoon delivered; Mosquito F.II first flight; Mig-3 first flight; F4F-3A final
delivery (95 built); NA-73 (XP-51) first flight
Jun '41 - P-38 delivered (30 built); P-39D-2 delivered; F2A-3 delivered (108 built); 399 I-26 delivered by
Barbarossa; Fw 190A-1 deliveries begin (100 built by October '41); A6M3 begins testing; P-40D
delivered (all 23 that month); P-43 delivery begins
Jul '41 - P-38D delivered (36 built); P-400 delivered (675 built) most to USAAF or USSR; P-40D delivered
(22 built); Fw 190A-1 began equipping JG 26; RAF receives 5 Mohawk IV; M.C.202 service
deliveries begin
Aug '41 - P-40G delivered (44 built); P-40E delivered (820 built); Kittihawk I delivered (560 built);
Mustang I delivered (620 built); Fw 190A-2 deliveries begin (124 built by end of year, 400 plus
total); Me 163V-1 first powered flight; P-38D final delivery; Pe-2 first flight
Fall '41 - Yak-1M supplants Yak-1 in production; Do 217J conversions begin; Ju 88C-4 delivery begins
Sep '41 - XF2A-4 delivered (1 built); P-43A delivered; Typhoon I begins service with 56 and 609
Squadrons at Duxford (3330 built); first Ki-45 production flight; Ki-44 begins service trials;
XP-60 first flight; Vultee 48C (P-66) first flight
Oct '41 - P-38E delivered (210 built)
Nov '41 - XP-40F delivered (1 built plus 1 YP-40F); M.C. 202 enters service; XP-55 first flight; F4F-4
delivery begins (1169 built); P-38E final delivery
Winter '41 - Yak-7a enters limited service; Mig-3 enters service
Dec '41 - P-322 (P-38) for Britiain (143 built), no turbo-supercharger or handed engines; P-39F delivered
(229 built); Kittihawk Ia delivered (1500 built); P-47B delivered (17 built); I-26 designation
changed to Yak-1; Re.2001 enters service; Fairy Firefly first flight; Ki-61 first flight; N1K1
(George) first flight; last Westland Whirlwind deliveries; A6M2-N first flight (floatplane); F4F-7
first flight; Me 163 pre-production begins

late '41 - final Mig-3 delivery, IAR.80 first production flight
early '42 - final I-16-24 delivery; Do 217J-1 delivery begins
Jan '42 - P-40F delivered (1311 built); Kittihawk II delivered (350 built); F4F-7 delivered (21 built);
A6M2-K first flight (2 seat trainer); M-82 re-engined Lagg-3 first flight; Ki-44-I begins production
(44 built - a,b,c variants)
Feb '42 - P-38F delivered (527 built); J2M (Jack) first flight (476 built of all types); Ki-43-IIa first flight;
XP-39E first flight
Mar '42 - last B-439 delivered (20 built); last P-43A delivered; P-43A1 production begins for China
(actually to keep Farmindale active); J2M first flight; P-70 first delivered; P-38F final delivery;
P-51A delivery begins; P-47B delivery begins; Do 217J-1 operational testing begins
Apr '42 - M.C. 205 first flight; G.55 first flight; Bf 109G-2 enters service with JG 2; Me 210A last
deliveries; Vultee Model 48C (P-66) final delivery (129 given to China, 15 kept as trainers);
Me 163B V1 completed
Spring '42 - Fw 190A-3 enters production
May '42 - P-40K delivered (800 built); XP-61 Þrst þight (2 built); Re.2005 first flight?; N1K first flight (89
built); Mosquito Mk II enters service (466 built); Bf 109G-1 enters service with JG 2; CA-12
Boomerang first flight; Ki-44-Ia first production flight; Lagg-3 production terminated;
Bf110G-2 delivery begins
Jun '42 - P-38G delivered (1082 built); F6F-1 Þrst þight (2 built); Ki-43-IIb first flight; La-5 first
production flight; final Lagg-3 delivery; Yak-7DI first flight; F4U-1 first flight summer '42 -
Do 217J-2 replaces Do 217J-1 in production; Bf 110G-4 delivery begins
Jul '42 - P-39K delivered (210 built); P-39L delivered (250 built); P-51(Mustang Ia) delivered (150 built);
F4F-4B (Martlet IV) delivered (220 built); XF6F-3 Þrst þight (1 built); Yak-7D entered trials;
Spitfire Mk IX entered service; Me 262V-3 first flight; Do 217N first flight; Me 309 V1
first flight
Aug '42 - FM-1 Þrst þight (1060 built); Typhoon I enters service as fighter-bomber (3330 built); CA-12
first delivery (105 built plus 95 CA-13 and 45 CA-19); first production Firefly F.I; K-61-I service
deliveries begin; Yak-9m first flight; Ki-45 KAI begins service; Ki-44-II pre-production begins;
N1K1 begins service trials
Sep '42 - P-47C delivered (602 delivered); Ki-44-I entered service (40 built); Tempest V first flight;
Re.2005 first flight; P-70 final delivery; P-38H delivery begins; A-36 first flight
Oct '42 - P-40K-10 delivered (500 built, long fuselage); P-47G delivered (Curtis, 354 built); A-36A
delivered (500 built); F4U-1 delivered; M.C. 205 delivered (200 built, plus 112 after armistice);
Ki-44-II entered service; J2M2 begins production; XP-59A first flight; F6F-3 first flight
Nov '42 - P-39M delivered (240 built); P-39N built (500 built); P-40M first flight; Kittihawk III delivered
(595 built); Yak-9 (Yak-7D development) entered service around Stalingrad; Seafire Ib enters
service (150 built, plus 400 IIc); XP-49 first flight; He 219V-1 first flight; M.C.205N first
flight?; Ki-43-IIa enters production; P-40K final delivery; XP-60A first flight; Vought V-173
first flight
Winter '42 - La-5FN first production flight; Do 217N-1 enters operational service
Dec '42 - Martlet V delivered (311 built); XF4F-8 delivered (2 built); F4U-2 delivered (32 built); F6F-3
delivery begins (4156 built); Me 410V-1 first flight; final Ki-27 delivery; Kawanishi X-1
(N1K1-J) first flight; F4F-4 final delivery; F4F-7 final delivery
Jan '43 - P-40L delivered (700 built); XP-54 first flight; P-40M delivered (600 built); XP-60C first flight
Feb '43 - P-47D delivered (6313 built D-1 to D-23); last Fulmar Mk II delivered; Tempest I first flight;
Ki-61-I service deliveries begin; Ki-43-I production ends; FG-1A (Goodyear F4U-1) delivery
begins (1704 built)
Mar '43 - P-38H delivered (601 built); P-40N-1 delivered (400 built); P-51A delivered (Mustang II) (310
built); Hurricane Mk IV entered service; Gloster Meteor first flight; Mosquito Mk XII enters
service (97 built); Ki-84 first flight; XF6F-3 delivered to USN Spring '43 - J1N1 night fighter
conversions begin; Do 217N-2 enters production

Apr '43 - XF6F-4 delivered (1 built); Seafire III enters production (1100 plus built); M.C. 205 enters
service; Fw 190A-5 enters production; Ki-61-I enters combat in New Guinea; Ki-84 first flight;
P-40L final delivery; YP-61 delivered; F3A-1 (Brewster F4U-1) delivery begins
May '43 - P-39Q delivered (4905 built); P-40N-5 delivered (1100 built); P-51B-1 delivered (1988 built);
XP-63 delivered (2 built); XP-63A delivered (1 built); Re.2005 enters service (29 built); He 219
pre-production deliveries begin; XP-60E first flight
Jun '43 - Yak-3 delivered in limited numbers; G.55 enters service (130 built); Ki-44-III first flight (1,225
Ki-44 built of all models); Fw 190A-6 enters production; first production Tempest V flight;
Tempest II first flight; La-7 first production flight; YP-59A first flight; XP-62 first flight; XP-55
first flight; Ta 154 V1 first flight; He 219A-0 begins operational testing
Jul '43 - He 219A-2 completed
Aug '43 - P-40N-10 delivered (100 built); P-51C delivered (1750 built); YP-61 delivered (13 built); Me
163B first flight; Mosquito NF.XIII first flight; Ki-61-II first flight; A6M5 first flight; Ki-84-Ia
first production flight; J1N1-S begins production; XP-51G first flight
Fall '43 - Ki-96 first flight; Me 328 unpowered flight tests
Sep '43 - P-38J delivered (2970 built); P-40N-15 delivered (377 built); P-40N-20 delivered (1523 built);
FM-2 delivered (4437 built plus 340 Martlet VI); F6F-3N built (229 built); XP-56 first flight;
Me 310 first flight
Oct '43 - P-61A delivered (200 built); P-63A delivered (1725 built); Fairy Firefly enters service; Ki-84
begins service trials; Do 335 V1 first flight; He 219A-2 delivered
Nov '43 - He 219A-1 production deliveries begin; XP-75 first flight; XP-47J first flight; Ta 154A-0 first
flight
Dec '43 - N1K2-J first flight; J2M2 service delivery begins; Ki-44-IIb first flight; XF7F-1 first flight;
Ki-61-II first flight; Ki-64 first flight
early '44 - La-9 first flight
Jan '44 - P-40N-25 delivered (499 built); P-51D-1 delivered (8056 delivered D-1 to D-30); XF6F-2 first
flight (1 delivered); F6F-3E delivered (18 built); Yak-9u first flight; Ki-61-Ic begins production;
XP-80 first flight; XP-67 first flight; Ju 388J (V2) first flight; Spitfire F.MkXIV enters service.
Feb '44 - Mosquito Mk XIII enters service (270 built); XP-51F first flight; XP-72 first flight
Mar '44 - final N1K1 delivery; A6M5a delivery begins; F6F-3 final delivery; F6F-5 first flight; He 219A-5
delivered
Apr '44 - P-40N-30 delivered (500 built); P-47D-25 delivered (6289 built, D-25 to D-40); XF4U-3
delivered (2 built); F6F-5 Þrst þight (7868 built); Tempest enters service (800 plus built); Ki-84
second pre-production run begins; Ki-84-I operational service begins; F7F-1 delivery begins
Spring '44 - Yak-3 enters large scale production; Ju 88G-1 begins production
May '44 - F4U-4X Þrst þight (2 converted); A7M first flight; Me 163B-1 first delivered to Luftwaffe;
Me 262A-0 first delivered for testing; Beaufighter Mk 21 (Australia) first flight; Tempest VI first
flight; J2M5 first flight; J2M5 begins testing; XP-77 first flight; XFG-2 first flight; BV 40 first
flight; Do 335A-0 pre-production delivery begins; Ju 88G-1 begins operational service
Jun '44 - P-38L delivered (3923 built); N1K2-J enters production; XP-58 first flight; Me 262A service with
first experimental combat unit (EK 262); P1Y1-S night fighter conversions begin; Ki-102a first
flight (15 delivered); N1K2-J begins production; YP-60E first flight; XP-80A first flight; XFR-1
first flight (piston engine only); F3A-1 final delivery (735 built); Ta 154A-1 first production
flight; La-7 enters service
Jul '44 - P-40N-35 delivered (500 built); P-61B delivered (450 built); XF6F-6 Þrst þight (2 built); Gloster
Meteor Mk I enters service; Ta-152H first flight; D.H. 103 Hornet first flight; Me 163 first combat
vs USAAF
Summer '44 - Yak-3 enters service in quantity; Ki-108 flight trials
Aug '44 - Fw 190D-9 deliveries begin (650-700 built); Ki-109 first flight; XF8F-1 first flight; P-59A first
flight (20 built); P-61B delivery begins (450 built); Ta 154 program cancelled; Me 263A-1
unpowered flight trials
fall '44 - Ki-109 first flight; Do 335A-1 enters production (none delivered before factory captured)

Sep '44 - P-47N delivered (826 built); XF4U-4 delivered (5 built); first Me 262A squadron service (8/ZG
26); last Hurricane deliveries; Ki-46-III-Kai night fighter conversions begin; Ki-61-II production
begins; A6M5c first flight; Fury first flight (Centaurus engine); XP-75A first flight; Do 335A-0
service trials begin
Oct '44 - P-40N-40 delivered (216 built); A7M2 (Sam) first flight (9 prototypes and 1 production model
built); Bf 109K-4 deliveries begin (700 built); pre-production Ta-152H-0's delivered for service
testing; Tempest II first production flight; F7F-1 final delivery (500 built); F7F-2N delivery
begins (65 built) Ki-43-II production ends
Nov '44 - Ki-83 first flight; Ta-152H-1 deliveries begin (34 delivered by years end); A6M6c first prototype
built; Fury first flight (RR Griffon engine); XF8B-1 first flight; P-40N final delivery
Dec '44 - P-47M delivered (130 built); P-63C delivered (1427 built); F4U-4 delivered (2357 built);
Ta-152C-0 flight testing begins; He 162 first flight; M.C.200 final deliveries; Ki-43-IIIa first
flight; Ki-44-III production ends; P-59B first flight; F8F-1 delivery begins
late '44 / early '45 - La-11 first flight
Jan '45 - He 162 service deliveries begin; XFD-1 first flight
Feb '45 - P-38M delivered (75 converted from L); P-51H delivered (555 built); Ki-100-1 first flight (396
built of all types); D.H. 103 Hornet first service delivery; Sea Fury first flight; XP-83 first flight;
XP-81 first flight; XF15C-1 first flight; P-80A delivery begins
Mar '45 - conversion of Ki-61-II to Ki-100 begins; XF8B-1 first delivered (3 built); F7F-3 delivery begins;
FR-1 delivery begins (66 built)
Apr '45 - Ki-87 first flight; Ki-93 first flight; A6M8 prototype completed; navalised D.H. 103 Hornet first
flight; XP-51J first flight; XP-82 first flight
May '45 - P-63E delivered (13 built); Seafire Mk XV entered service (390 built); Ki-100-II entered
production; first production Firefly FR.4; Ki-100-Ib entered production; Ki-100-II first flight
summer '45 - La-11 service delivery begins
Jul '45 - P-61C delivered (41 built); J8M1 first flight (blew up); Ki-106 begins flight trials; XP-47H first
flight
Aug '45 - J7W first flight; Ki-94 first flight; Nakajima Kikka first flight; P-59B service delivery begins (30
built); FM-2 final delivery; F7F-2N final delivery
Sep '45 - Seafire Mk XVII entered service (232 built); last Beaufighter deliveries from UK; final P-47N
delivery
Oct '45 - last Beaufighter deliveries from Australia; P-82B first flight
Nov '45 - final Typhoon deliveries; final F6F-5 delivery
Mar '46 - P-82B delivery begins; F4U-4 final delivery
Jun '46 - F7F-3 final delivery (189 built)
Feb '46 - F8F-1B delivery begins
Sep '46 - F7F-4N delivery begins; XP-79 first flight
Oct '46 - Sea Hornet deliveries begin
Nov '46 - F7F-4N final delivey (13 built)
Dec '46 - F7F final delivery; P-80A final delivery
Oct '47 - F8F-2 delivery begins
Nov '47 - F4U-5 delivery begins
Apr '49 - F8F-2 final delivery
Aug '49 - F8F-1 final delivery (765 built)
Nov '50 - Hornet NF.21 final delivery
Sep '51 - F4U-5N final delivery
Jun '52 - Hornet FR.4 final delivery

Bibliography
Angelucci, Enzo. _The American Fighter_. Orion Books, New York. 1987 Angelucci, Enzo. _The Rand McNally Encyclopedia of Military Aircraft 1914-1980)_. The Military Press, New York. 1981 Beaman, John R. _Messerschmitt Bf 109 In Action pt2_. Squadron Signal Publications, Carrolton, Texas. 1983 Brown, Eric M (Captain, RN). _Duels In The Sky_. Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, Maryland. 1988
Dean, Francis H. _America¹s Hundred Thousand: U.S. Production Fighters of World War Two_. Schiffer Military/Aviation History, Atglen PA. 1997 Francillon, Rene J. _Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War_. Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, Maryland. 1979 Green, William. _Warplanes of the Third Reich_.
Galahad Books, New York. 1970 Gunston, Bill. _Combat Aircraft: A technical directory of major warplanes from World War I to the present_. Salamander Book, New York. 1976 Gunston, Bill. _Combat Aircraft of World War II_. Salamander Book, New York. 1978 O¹Leary, Michael. _USAAF Fighters Of World War Two In Action; Volume One P-35 to P-39_. Historical Times Inc, Harrisburg, PA. 1986
O¹Leary, Michael. _USAAF Fighters Of World War Two In Action; Volume Two P-35 to P-39_. Historical Times Inc, Harrisburg, PA. 1986 Redeman, Hans. _Innovations In Aircraft Construction_. Schiffer Military History, West Chester, PA. 1991 Stapfer, Hans-Heiri. _Yak Fighters in Action_. Squadron Signal Publications, Carrollton, Texas. 1986 White, Graham. _Allied Aircraft Piston Engines of World War II_. Society of Automotive Engineers, Warrendale PA. 1995

Compiled by Gregory W Shaw gwshaw@uswest.net

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Staga on November 22, 2001, 06:40:00 AM

punt

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Wutz on November 22, 2001, 11:38:00 AM

Great List Wotan (S)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: HoHun on November 22, 2001, 06:58:00 PM

Hi Funked,

To complete the data for Focke-Wulf Rüstsatz production:

The R1 Rüstsatz (twin 20 mm gondolas under each wing) reduced the speed of the test aircraft Fw 190A-5/U12 W. Nr. 0813 by 26 to 29 km/h when flown without gun barrels. (Tests with gun barrels were invalided by engine problems.)

A type overview document dating from January 3, 1945 quotes that from 06/1944 to 12/1944, at least 60 Fw 190A-6/R1 were converted by LZA Küper. An earlier document suggests that some of the converted aircraft could have actually been Fw 190G-3 fighter bombers, indicating that the R1 designation was used twice (the second use being the 4 x 50 kg bomb racks).

Additionally, a number of Fw 190A-7/R1 and A-8/R1 aircraft were converted, but in 04/1944 production was stopped for performance reasons, probably because the new R2/R8 Rüstsätze (2 x MK108 inside the outer wings) offered similar firepower without the gondolas' negative impact on top speed.

(Source: Luftfahrt International 7, 1975.)
Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on November 23, 2001, 01:49:00 AM

Thanks guys, keep it coming. <S>

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Staga on December 20, 2001, 12:50:00 PM

punt

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on December 20, 2001, 01:01:00 PM

Thanks all who helped on this thread. This information is now bearing fruit, by helping us to choose CT planesets. :)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Staga on March 06, 2002, 07:33:44 AM

kicking this up again

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: eskimo2 on June 18, 2002, 11:02:57 AM

Ya Hoo!
This is what I was looking for!

Now we need a list with the new planes added!

eskimo

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: eskimo2 on June 18, 2002, 11:58:39 AM

Here is a list of the AH planes as of 1.09:

U.S.Army:
B-17G
B-26B
C-47A
P-38L
P-47D-11
P-47D-25
P-47D-30
P-51B
P51D Mustang

U.S.Navy:
TBM-3
F4U-1
F4U-1C
F4U-1D
F4U-4
F6F-5

British:
Hurricane Mk I
Hurricane IIC
Hurricane IID
Lancaster III
Mosquito Mk VI
Seafire IIC
Spitfire Mk IA
Spitfire V
Spitfire Mk IX
Spitfire Mk XIV
Tempest V
Typhoon

Russian:
Il-2 Type 3
La-5FN
La-7
Yak-9T
Yak-9U

Italian:
C.202
C.205

Japanese:
A6M5b
Ki-61-I-KAIc
Ki-67
N1K2-J

German:
Ar 234B
Bf 109E-4
Bf 109F-4
Bf 109G-10
Bf 109G-2
Bf 109G-6
Bf 110C-4b
Bf 110G-2
Fw 190A-5
Fw 190A-8
Fw 190D-9
Fw 190F-8
Ju 88A-4
Me 262
Ta 152H

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: eskimo2 on June 18, 2002, 12:13:02 PM

Here is a list of the AH planes as of 1.10:

U.S.Army:
A-20G
B-17G
B-26B
C-47A
P-38L
P-40B
P-40E
P-47D-11
P-47D-25
P-47D-30
P-51B
P51D Mustang

U.S.Navy:
F4F-4
FM-2
F4U-1
F4U-1C
F4U-1D
F4U-4
F6F-5
SBD-5
TBM-3

British:
Boston MK III
Hurricane Mk I
Hurricane IIC
Hurricane IID
Lancaster III
Mosquito Mk VI
Seafire IIC
Spitfire Mk IA
Spitfire V
Spitfire Mk IX
Spitfire Mk XIV
Tempest V
Typhoon

Russian:
Il-2 Type 3
La-5FN
La-7
Yak-9T
Yak-9U

Italian:
C.202
C.205

Japanese:
A6M2
A6M5b
D3A-1
Ki-61-I-KAIc
Ki-67
N1K2-J

German:
Ar 234B
Bf 109E-4
Bf 109F-4
Bf 109G-10
Bf 109G-2
Bf 109G-6
Bf 110C-4b
Bf 110G-2
Fw 190A-5
Fw 190A-8
Fw 190D-9
Fw 190F-8
Ju 88A-4
Me 262
Ta 152H

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: senna on June 18, 2002, 03:08:53 PM

So much info. Funked, can you provide all this info into a final list and publish it on this thread for us. If you can, most appreciated.

Thanks,

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: eskimo2 on June 18, 2002, 03:37:56 PM

OK guys, here's an updated compiled list, please hack away. I found some info on some of the new planes. Other planes had many conflicting dates of beginning service, so I chose one and am very likely wrong on a few.
Also, please refrain from spouting random data without making a point...
I.E. please start with "I think that Plane XXX's date should be changed to M-Y, because..." or "I think that Plane XXX's date is correct because..."
Please feel free to copy the entire list and make changes(and re-post), or start a new list if you don't like how I have it arranged. Please note that I broke the US planes into Army and Navy (+Marine). This is because whoever sets-up and arena will probably want to look at Pacific/carrier or Europe, but not both. Of course they will still have to borrow land-based planes from the Army list, but at least the CV capable planes are separated, and when setting up a non-Pacific arena they won't have to sift through blue planes.:

U.S.Army:
A-20G   ...   5-42
B-17G      ...   6-43
B-26B      ...   5-42
C-47A      ...   12-41
P-38L      ...   7-44
P-40B      ...   1-41
P-40E      ...   8-41
P-47D-11   ...   3-43?
P-47D-25   ...   4-44
P-47D-30   ...   10-44
P-51B   ...      12-43
P51D       ...   1-44

U.S.Navy:
F4F-4      ...   41?
FM-2      ...   9-43
F4U-1      ...   10-42
F4U-1D   ...   4-44
F4U-1C   ...   4-45
F4U-4      ...   4-45
F6F-5      ...   7-44
SBD-5   ...   41?
TBM-3   ...   1-42

British:
Boston MK III   ...   5-41
Hurricane Mk I   ...   12-37
Hurricane IIC      ...   4-41
Hurricane IID      ...   6-42
Lancaster III      ...   3-42
Mosquito Mk VI   ...   7-43
Seafire IIC      ...   10-42
Spitfire Mk IA   ...   6-38
Spitfire V      ...   4-41
Spitfire Mk IX   ...   7-42
Spitfire Mk XIV   ...   3-44
Tempest V      ...   5-44
Typhoon      ...   6-42

Russian:
Il-2 Type 3   ...   10-42
La-5FN   ...   3-43
La-7      ...   6-44
Yak-9T   ...   1-43
Yak-9U   ...   3-44

Italian:
C.202      ...   11-41
C.205      ...   1-43

Japanese:
A6M2         ...   7-40
A6M5b      ...   1-44
D3A-1      ...   41?
Ki-61-I-KAIc      ...   2-43
Ki-67         ...   ?
N1K2-J      ...   2-45

German:
Ar 234B   ...   12-44
Bf 109E-4   ...   5-40
Bf 109F-4   ...   6-41
Bf 109G-2   ...   5-42
Bf 109G-6   ...   10-42
Bf 109G-10   ...   3-44
Bf 110C-4b   ...   7-40
Bf 110G-2   ...   5-42
Fw 190A-5   ...   3-43
Fw 190A-8   ...   2-44
Fw 190D-9   ...   9-44
Fw 190F-8   ...   3-44?
Ju 88A-4   ...   12-40
Me 262   ...   7-44
Ta 152H   ...   2-45

Please add so that we can get a list that looks close to agreeable.
Thanks,
eskimo

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Duedel on June 19, 2002, 03:48:42 AM

Great great thread!!!! Is it ok for u when i use all these data for my Website (http://www.ottoweller.de/ah/planes.html) ?
I like to add the data so u can filter the planes by date.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: eskimo2 on June 19, 2002, 08:38:47 AM

I found a date for the KI-67, 10-44

eskimo

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: funkedup on June 19, 2002, 12:17:05 PM

Duedel, go ahead. This list belongs to the community. :)

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Mitsu on June 19, 2002, 12:35:37 PM

First Ki-61-I-KAIc aka Ki-61-I-Tei has rolled out in January, 1944.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Mitsu on June 19, 2002, 12:41:22 PM

Ki-67 has begun to be mass-produced (:)) from April, 1943.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Mitsu on June 19, 2002, 12:44:34 PM

98th Sentai has received Ki-67-I in May 20, 1944.
This is the first squadron which received Ki-67.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: eskimo2 on June 28, 2002, 07:48:04 AM

bump

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: illo on June 28, 2002, 07:32:57 PM

Bump.

I will join AH again when we have rps.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Karnak on June 28, 2002, 08:36:08 PM

eskimo2, should you chance to revisit this thread,

Are you going by first combat or entering service?

So far as I know, the service entry dates for some of those listed are incorrect. Here's what I think is correct:

U.S.Army:
B-17G ... 6-43 (Basically correct, but the tail turret type and staggered waist guns marks the AH B-17G as a 1944 B-17G)
P-47D-11 ... 1-44 (I recall this from one of the "give the P-47D-11 a paddle bladed prop" threads)
P-51D ... 6-44 (The P-51D didn't even enter production until 2-44. It certainly didn't enter service in 1-44)

British:
Lancaster III ... 3-42 (Basically correct, but the .50 cal tail turret marks the AH Lanc III as a 1944 Lanc III)
Spitfire Mk XIV ... 1-44 (Spitfire Mk XIVs entered service with 610 Squadron on January 3rd, 1944)
Typhoon ... 9-41 (56 Squadron recived Typhoons in September, 1941. The AH Typhoon is canopied like a 1943-145 Typhoon and engined like a 1944 Typhoon)

Japanese:
A6M5b ... 3-44 (The A6M5a entered service in January, 1944. The b a couple of months after)
D3A-1 ... 37
Ki-61-I-KAIc ... 1-44 (The Ho-5 20mm cannon wasn't available in early 1943)
N1K2-J ... 11-44

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: eskimo2 on June 28, 2002, 10:07:19 PM

Thanks Karnak!

I think that the most useful date for our use is the first date the plane made it into the combat zone. Either way, they all need to be consistant.

Karnak, it would be great if you would be willing to copy the list I made and update it to what you think correct dates should be. You are clearly one of the most read on this stuff. Perhaps put a ! on dates that you are sure of, and a ? on ones that you're not yet sure about (or whatever). Some of the CT set-ups and SEA events are based on this info, and it would be nice to have it as accurate as possible. Some AC could use notes telling that a similar earlier model saw combat on XX date, and the later version could make a fair substitute for the earlier one.

Thanks,

eskimo

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
eskimo2, should you chance to revisit this thread,

Are you going by first combat or entering service?

So far as I know, the service entry dates for some of those listed are incorrect. Here's what I think is correct:

U.S.Army:
B-17G ... 6-43 (Basically correct, but the tail turret type and staggered waist guns marks the AH B-17G as a 1944 B-17G)
P-47D-11 ... 1-44 (I recall this from one of the "give the P-47D-11 a paddle bladed prop" threads)
P-51D ... 6-44 (The P-51D didn't even enter production until 2-44. It certainly didn't enter service in 1-44)

British:
Lancaster III ... 3-42 (Basically correct, but the .50 cal tail turret marks the AH Lanc III as a 1944 Lanc III)
Spitfire Mk XIV ... 1-44 (Spitfire Mk XIVs entered service with 610 Squadron on January 3rd, 1944)
Typhoon ... 9-41 (56 Squadron recived Typhoons in September, 1941. The AH Typhoon is canopied like a 1943-145 Typhoon and engined like a 1944 Typhoon)

Japanese:
A6M5b ... 3-44 (The A6M5a entered service in January, 1944. The b a couple of months after)
D3A-1 ... 37
Ki-61-I-KAIc ... 1-44 (The Ho-5 20mm cannon wasn't available in early 1943)
N1K2-J ... 11-44

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Staga on August 20, 2002, 02:41:50 PM

bump

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Thrawn on August 20, 2002, 04:07:45 PM

You guys kick butt. Nice to see all the different sub-groups of this community, come together to work on thsi fantasic thread.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Karnak on August 21, 2002, 12:59:23 AM

U.S.Army:
A-20G ... 5-42
B-17G ... 6-43*
B-26B ... 5-42
C-47A ... 12-41
P-38L ... 7-44
P-40B ... 1-41
P-40E ... 8-41
P-47D-11 ... 1-44?*
P-47D-25 ... 4-44
P-47D-30 ... 10-44
P-51B ... 12-43
P51D ... 5-44?*

U.S.Navy:
F4F-4 ... 41?
FM-2 ... 9-43
F4U-1 ... 10-42
F4U-1D ... 4-44
F4U-1C ... 4-45
F4U-4 ... 4-45
F6F-5 ... 7-44
SBD-5 ... 5-43?*
TBM-3 ... 1-42

British:
Boston MK III ... 5-41
Hurricane Mk I ... 12-37
Hurricane IIC ... 4-41
Hurricane IID ... 6-42
Lancaster III ... 3-42*
Mosquito Mk VI ... 7-43
Seafire IIC ... 10-42
Spitfire Mk IA ... 6-38
Spitfire V ... 4-41
Spitfire Mk IX ... 7-42
Spitfire Mk XIV ... 1-44!*
Tempest V ... 5-44
Typhoon ... 6-42*

Russian:
Il-2 Type 3 ... 10-42
La-5FN ... 3-43
La-7 ... 6-44
Yak-9T ... 1-43
Yak-9U ... 3-44

Italian:
C.202 ... 11-41
C.205 ... 1-43

Japanese:
A6M2 ... 7-40
A6M5b ... 3-44!*
D3A-1 ... ?-37!
Ki-61-I-KAIc ... 1-44!
Ki-67 ... 4-44!*
N1K2-J ... 11-44?*

German:
Ar 234B ... 12-44
Bf 109E-4 ... 5-40
Bf 109F-4 ... 6-41
Bf 109G-2 ... 5-42
Bf 109G-6 ... 10-42
Bf 109G-10 ... 3-44
Bf 110C-4b ... 7-40
Bf 110G-2 ... 5-42
Fw 190A-5 ... 3-43
Fw 190A-8 ... 2-44
Fw 190D-9 ... 9-44
Fw 190F-8 ... 3-44?
Ju 88A-4 ... 12-40
Me 262 ... 7-44
Ta 152H ... 2-45

Notes:

*B-17G ... 6-43; The B-17G did enter service in 1943, however the B-17G in AH has the stepped waist guns and improved tail turret of a 1944 B-17G. This shouldn't have too much impact on gameplay though, being mainly limited to the greater range of movement in the tail turret.

*P-47D-11 ... 1-44?; This is based on my recollections of statements made by others in the "Give the P-47D-11 a paddle bladed prop" threads. However, given that the AH P-47D-11 lacks the paddle bladded prop it is a decent approximation of a P-47D-5, which entered service in 3-43.

*P51D ... 5-44?; The P-51D entered production in 2-44, so it clearly did not enter service in 1-44. I have looked and looked for a service entry date or a theatre arrival date for the P-51D, but have not (shockingly so given the aircraft's fame), been able to find even a hind. I am guestimating a 3 month lag between entering production and entering service.

*SBD-5 ... 5-43?; The SBD-5 entered production in 2-43, so like the P-51D I am guestimating a 3 month lag from production to service. I only found this information tonight (of course, I only looked for it tonight ;)) and have to admit to being somewhat disappointed in HTC about it. The SBD-5 introduced the 1,200hp R-1820-60, which brought with it a noticable performance jump. The SBD-2 and SBD-3 that fought the Battles of Coral Sea and Midway were powered by a 1,000hp engine and the SBD-2 lacked the dual rear gun. At the same time as we have a late SBD, we have an early D3A. The D3A1 is the aircraft that the Japanese used at Pearl Harbor, Coral Sea and Midway, but like the US with the SBD a better version was to be produced in greater quantity. The D3A2 entered production in 8-42 and boosted the top speed of the D3A by 39mph. As it is in AH, the US gets a over boosted aircraft and is in an artificial position of technical superiority, or greater superiority, than they should be.

*Lancaster III ... 3-42; The .50 calibre guns in the AH Lanc's tail mark it as a late war Lancaster, probably 1944. However, that change, particularly in light of its paltry ammunition supply (I'd probably prefer four .303s with 4,000 rounds), shouldn't have too much of an impact on the game. Limiting early access to the Lanc based on the tail turret might be justified.

*Spitfire Mk XIV ... 1-44!; The Spitfire entered service with 610 Squadron on January 3rd, 1944. 3-44 is the date of the first kill (a Ju88), but it was operational and on patrols prior to that.

*Typhoon ... 6-42; The only significant change, in the context of AH, that I am aware of is the change to a bubble canopy in late 1943. The performance of the Typhoon Mk Ib, so far as I can tell, remained relatively unchanged. The major difference between a 1942 Typhoon and a 1944 Typhoon was in it's reliability, which is a non-issue in AH.

*A6M5b ... 3-44!; The only difference between an A6M5a, which entered service in 1-44, and an A6M5b is the switching of one of the 7.7mm machine guns in the cowling for a 12.7mm machine gun. Substituting the A6M5b for A6M5b is reasonable. The A6M5 entered service in 8-43, but was significantly less pretected than the A6M5b. Nonetheless, this switch is probably still reasonable.

*Ki-67 ... 4-44!; The Ki-67 entered service with the IJA in 4-44. The first IJN usage as a torpedo bomber is in 10-44. Most Ki-67s were built in 1945.

*N1K2-J ... 11-44?; Production began in of the N1K2-J began in 6-44 and I have seen data that claiming that 60 were delivered in 1944. My best source for N1K2 combat entry is 150 miles away from me right now.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: eskimo2 on November 27, 2002, 11:54:14 AM

bump

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Squire on November 27, 2002, 02:49:09 PM

Are those dates in service or production? seems like they include both.

For the 109G-10 and 3-44, I have no source that gives it that early, 3-44 is the production date in the factory, unless somebody wants to give a source. All the ones I see give it as a post 6-44 service date, in this thread.

My own:

"Messerschmitt Bf 109" by Robert Grinsell:

"By April 1944 production of the Bf109G-6 and Bf109G-8 had given way to the Bf109G-10"

No in service date was given.

Title: Hawker Tempest MKV
Post by: Pei on November 27, 2002, 03:55:18 PM

No. 3 and No. 486 Squadrons were declared operational at Tangmere with Hawker Tempest MkV (Series 1) aircraft in April 1944. The first operation sortie was flown by No. 3 Squadron on 23rd April.

The Tempest we have in AH is MkV Series 2, the primary difference being the introduction of the Hispano MkV with the shorter barrel (and higher ROF). Series 2 Tempests began reaching squadrons in June 1944.

So the servie entry date should be either 4/44 or 6/44 depending on how accurate we want to be.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: GA on December 01, 2002, 04:04:48 AM

Hey hey;)

Were were you guys when i need your help on my list! :D

http://www.332viking.com/docs/planedataupdate.xls

I wil go through you rpost and see if youy guys gott it right :D.

Title: Service Introduction Dates for AH Planes
Post by: Replicant on December 01, 2002, 07:12:32 AM

The markings on the Typhoon in AH show it as a 1944 variant, although it's only the canopy, 4 blade prop and tougher tail that's different than a 1942 Typhoon.

The same goes for the Lancaster. Lancaster III is the same as a Lancaster I but has Packard Merlins instead of Rolls Royce. The .50 cal turrets were experimented with between 1942-1944 in either upper or tail location. The variant we have is the 1944 tail turret, although everything else on the aircraft is the same as the 1942 Lancaster (although it's minus it's ventral gun which was only kept by one bomber group).

Title: Old Thread but.......
Post by: Stegahorse on June 19, 2003, 07:59:42 PM

Funked up list is inaccurate as to the P-47 Thunderbolt
An Indepth description of the beast is at

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47.html

The first B dilevery of the B model was in 12/41 It had problems but the USAAF was impressed with it and ordered abvout 600 more. Republic realised that the Farmingdale facility could not meet the schedule. The Immediately started the Evansville In. facility. Farmingdale continued on the C models. Evansville
facility started delivering in Sept 1942. A record for any startup and production facilty at the time. By then, the Republic engineers advanced the Thunderbolt to its D designation. By February 1943 both contracts for C and D models had been fulfilled. If you visit the Whirlpool site in Evansville,which is the old Republic factory, you would see that the planes were litterally rolled out the door, gassed up and sent to the delivery destination. C and D would be in service in March 1943. The contact through D-25 was fufilled in September 1943.
What most people today cannot imagine was a standard practise for Republic. THEY UPGRADED EVERY FLYING Thunderbolt to the highest performance at the time. That is, They sent parts overseas for the mechanics to update every Thunderbolt everywhere. If a C-5 was flying, it had been upgrades to a D-25 as soon as the package of parts could be delivered. When the M came out, same thing happened. They made an improved supercharger or Turbocharger, they were sent to the front lines in upgrade kits. What did not change was Prat and Whitney engine unless it had to be replaced, the it would be with the lastest model.
Funked has the P-47M confused with the N . December, 1944 and 600~ is the proper date and numbers for the M. NOW! IT WAS THE FASTEST PROP Driven in Europe. 470 mph at 27,000 feet. It weighed 10,432 empty, 13,275 normal load and 15,500 Maxed out.
The Heavy Thunderbolt, the N was the 20,700lb Behemouth of record. Of these , only 170 were produced . The shut-down of the Evansville plant put that area into shock. Those N type were delivered in April 1945 and went on to serve in UN role.
The P-47M was designed to be a fighter because Republic had pride in the plane and wanted it to be the best in the air. The 358th fighter group demanded them. And the 358th figured out the oil box problem. How fast??? A Lt. Rich dove one to a recorded speed of 586 mph. I talked to him. It flew as easy and steady as it would at 400 mph. The Lt winged for all the great T-bolt pilots in Europe. I asked him if he experianced compression in the t-bolt. He responded, "the Thunderbolt flew like a dream always. The only shudders he ever heard where when bullets or shells pecked at it". He went on to add that"you could not truly be a combat pilot if you did not get holes in your aircraft, regularly".
Check the site out for real, it is the best on names dates and places I've seen. Also on sight are comments like it has a higher aileron roll rate then any American or European fighter, Although it climbs poorly, nothing can stay with it in a dive.
Chech out the Thunderbolt Pilots Association
http://www.p47pilots.com/cfm_ContactUs.cfm
Ask them about there anecdotal flights and fights. When the same story is told time after time by person after person, the anecdote must be gospel!

Title: puzzled about P-47s
Post by: joeblogs on June 23, 2003, 12:08:12 PM

Here's what I wonder about the P-47 in AH - all the models behave as if they have ADI (WEP), yet the initial models were built with the R2800-21, which to my knowledge did not have ADI. Later planes had the R2800-59 which did have ADI.

That makes me wonder about what are the right introduction dates.

Same problem with F4u-1 - the initial models did not have WEP until the R2800-8W was used...

-Blogs

Quote

Originally posted by funkedup
To follow up on your post Sancho, it looks like Kearby's Jugs were D-2's: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic6.html (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic6.html)

And they were the first Jugs to operate in PTO: http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_15.html (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_15.html)

[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Title: engines and fuel
Post by: joeblogs on June 23, 2003, 12:16:50 PM

The DB601N was a high compression version of the basic engine, hence the higher octane requirement. I believe this was orginally designed as a racing engine.

As for the BMW801, I suspect the problem was with cylinder cooling.

-Blogs

Quote

Originally posted by HoHun
Hi Funked,

>A-2 and earlier used the BMW 801C which ran on B4 fuel (87 octane). A-3 used the 801D which required C3 fuel (100 octane). I think at this time it was the only front line fighter requiring C3 fuel.

Interesting point, I hadn't considered that.

It could be you're right with regard to fuel logistics, but the Fw 190A-3 at that time was not the only fighter to need C3 fuel - the Me 109E-7 and the Me 109F-2 with their DB601N engine also flew on 100 octane.

From what I've read, it was more an engine development problem - the BMW801 was a bit troublesome early on.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: funkedup on October 30, 2001, 04:32:00 PM