Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Delirium on April 08, 2009, 08:12:45 AM
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I was catching a glimpse of a show on the Avenger on the Military Channel this morning. Most of the time, I ignore shows like this for the historical film and the interviews of the pilots themselves and never for the commentary (unless I want to chuckle).
If anyone sees the show, about 40 minutes into it they show a ball turret on an Avenger completely decimated. The entire turret is covered with a tarp while many men behind the tail of the Avenger hang their heads. After a few moments, the men work together pushing the Avenger off the back of the CV.
The question I have is this, did they not bother to extricate the men from aircraft in some instances and used the aircraft to act as a 'coffin' for the aircrews instead? Was this done with both bombers and fighters on CVs? I had assumed they would always remove the man and bury him at sea with full honors.
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I haven't watched the film, but I assume the Avenger was too badly damaged to be repaired at sea. Being nothing but a stand-in-the-way on board, I reckon they cleared it out. I think it's respectful idea to bury its crew with it!
Hauling aircraft overboard was done in more occasions, even aircraft still working! (just to save the space)
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No time as they might have been under attack? The unfortunate crew member may have been such a bloody mess that they simply did not see the point in extracting him only to bury him at sea any ways,plus the plane may have been to heavily damaged to repair? So many possibilities as to why they did this.
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Personally, if I'm getting buried at all, I would love to be buried in my bird.
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I have seen it. It was to badly damaged to repair, they stripped the plane of all usable parts and with limited storage space they pushed it overboard. The little ceremony was to honor the plane and the crew that died flying it. AFAIK they didn't use them for coffins, but don't take my world for it.
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I have found the film posted on the internet. It shows the plane landing with a badly damage turret, the plane being pushed to the back of the ship, a short service, and then the pane being pushed overboard.
Additional information was found in the book, TBF/TBM Avenger units of World War 2.
The incident in the film took place aboard the carrier Essex during a strike against the Philippines in Nov. 1944. The aircraft is TBF-1C White 93 of VT-15. “The turret gunner was killed in action, and as the TBM was considered to be damaged beyond economical repair, the gunner was buried at sea still strapped in his battle station.”
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I have found the film posted on the internet. It shows the plane landing with a badly damage turret, the plane being pushed to the back of the ship, a short service, and then the pane being pushed overboard.
Additional information was found in the book, TBF/TBM Avenger units of World War 2.
The incident in the film took place aboard the carrier Essex during a strike against the Philippines in Nov. 1944. The aircraft is TBF-1C White 93 of VT-15. “The turret gunner was killed in action, and as the TBM was considered to be damaged beyond economical repair, the gunner was buried at sea still strapped in his battle station.”
:salute
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Some photos of that event floating around out there too. Burial at sea. The Chaplain is up on the wing.
I also would suggest that it could be the pace of combat ops at the time didn't allow for them to take the time. Damaged birds were often pushed over the side. Sadly a bit like burying them where they fell and jamming a rifle into the ground with the helmet on top.
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Do you gents know of any other instances where this occurred? I know they have found quite a few pilots still strapped into their aircraft after many years.
I am primarily looking for a purposefull use of the aircraft as a burial device, either on land or at sea. Fighters or bombers...
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I doubt any person would just leave a pilot/gunner still inside his aircraft on the ground? Pushing them overseas okay, but...on land?
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While not exactly on topic but here is a photo of what is mostly likely the body of an Australian pilot that had bailed out of his fighter over the Kokoda Track.
(http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6221786,00.jpg)
From another angle.
(http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200808/r286644_1222393.jpg)
ack-ack
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As far as I had heard, that was a few branches covered by vines. They sent a team out to investigate it...
found an article about it
http://news.smh.com.au/national/defence-finds-no-airman-on-kokoda-track-20080904-49wi.html
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My father was on the Kakoda trail as he called it. Very nasty fighting that took place.
It was very personal no quarter given none expected.
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I was catching a glimpse of a show on the Avenger on the Military Channel this morning. Most of the time, I ignore shows like this for the historical film and the interviews of the pilots themselves and never for the commentary (unless I want to chuckle).
If anyone sees the show, about 40 minutes into it they show a ball turret on an Avenger completely decimated. The entire turret is covered with a tarp while many men behind the tail of the Avenger hang their heads. After a few moments, the men work together pushing the Avenger off the back of the CV.
The question I have is this, did they not bother to extricate the men from aircraft in some instances and used the aircraft to act as a 'coffin' for the aircrews instead? Was this done with both bombers and fighters on CVs? I had assumed they would always remove the man and bury him at sea with full honors.
Del I've seen the incident you're speaking of on a couple of different shows. IIRC the gunner's body was so intangled in the damaged aircraft that they would have to cut him out. Also the aircraft was damaged to the point where it wouldn't be serviceable so it became his makeshift coffin. The Navy threw quite a few damaged planes over the side in the heat of battle if their prescience became a liability to operations.
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http://military.discovery.com/strategies/videogallery/incidentsafloat/incidentsafloat22_wmp.html
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