Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: caldera on April 17, 2009, 11:37:47 AM

Title: stupidest question ever
Post by: caldera on April 17, 2009, 11:37:47 AM
What makes one plane turn better than another? 

For instance, why does the 190A8 roll so well but turn like crap? Why does the zero turn so well but not roll that great?
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: AKHog on April 17, 2009, 11:55:32 AM
Basic aerodynamics.

Your question really has no simple answer though.

Wing loading greatly affects turn rate, but there are many other factors.

Aspect ratio and aileron design greatly affect roll rate, but there are many other factors.

Google has answers to all of your questions, you just have to learn what to search for.
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: MachFly on April 17, 2009, 02:00:32 PM
One of the major reasons in wing loading. Wing loading is basically weight of the aircraft divided by the wing area.
If the wing is small (like on 190) and the aircraft is heavy (like a 190), then the wing loading will be high. Now if you take something like a spitfire with it's huge wings and a light airframe you get a low wing loading there for your airplane can turn tighter, fly slower, and climb faster. Airplanes like a 190, need a higher speed for take off and perform better at higher speeds (better than at low speeds that is).
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: AirFlyer on April 17, 2009, 11:01:50 PM
Same with a Zero, it has a large wing area with an extremely light frame, and might extremely light I mean they sacrificed every little piece of protection and stamped holes in everything to bring it down to around 5,000 - 6,000 lbs.
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: MachFly on April 17, 2009, 11:54:43 PM
same with all airplanes ever a C-47. I just used the spitfire and 190 as an example.
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on April 18, 2009, 07:43:13 AM
Not a stupid question.



Stupid is not asking. :aok


Some would say use a search, but who cares about those jack holes who already know everything. :devil
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: caldera on April 18, 2009, 09:31:44 AM
Oh, I already knew the answer. I just wanted to see if you guys did.  ;)

Thanks for the replies.
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: CAP1 on April 18, 2009, 12:13:05 PM
What makes one plane turn better than another? 

For instance, why does the 190A8 roll so well but turn like crap? Why does the zero turn so well but not roll that great?


i'm not an expert./.......but consider racing a 69 cadi deville against a 69 corvette, around watkins glen.  :D
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: caldera on April 18, 2009, 12:31:21 PM
It's a safe bet that the Caddy would roll better (and over) than the Vette. Good analogy.  :D
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: CAP1 on April 18, 2009, 01:13:08 PM
It's a safe bet that the Caddy would roll better (and over) than the Vette. Good analogy.  :D

yes....it would roll with total awesomeness. but it wouldn't turn for poop. onthe other hand, the vette would turn with awesomeness, but it wouldn't roll for poop.  :D
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: caldera on April 18, 2009, 01:25:39 PM
So the Vette would be what, around 10 ENY? Would have to perk the L-88 though. I'd probably be in the Rambler - it's a 40 ENY secret weapon!  :)
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: CAP1 on April 18, 2009, 02:31:27 PM
So the Vette would be what, around 10 ENY? Would have to perk the L-88 though. I'd probably be in the Rambler - it's a 40 ENY secret weapon!  :)
lol

hhmm......wonder what car the p38 would be equivalent to?
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: caldera on April 18, 2009, 04:15:44 PM
An F-100?  ;)
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: CAP1 on April 18, 2009, 04:29:56 PM
An F-100?  ;)

maybe?

i was tinking like a grand torino......it's pretty fast, and will handle fairly well when flown right........
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: Angus on April 19, 2009, 04:54:10 AM
Thumb rule here is wing loading, but that's just a thumb rule.
The roll rate is entirely a different issue.
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: Anaxogoras on April 19, 2009, 09:17:38 AM
Thrust:drag also plays a part in sustained turn-rate.
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: SectorNine50 on April 19, 2009, 08:48:32 PM
I've got another question:

Why would aircraft designers put a smaller wing on an aircraft if they knew it helped turn performance?
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: Motherland on April 19, 2009, 08:49:36 PM
I've got another question:

Why would aircraft designers put a smaller wing on an aircraft if they knew it helped turn performance?
Because a larger wing also produces more drag. Notice that most of the aircraft that turn poorly are also fast.
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: BnZs on April 20, 2009, 01:52:27 AM
I've got another question:

Why would aircraft designers put a smaller wing on an aircraft if they knew it helped turn performance?

In WWII, they weren't so much putting smaller wings on aircraft as they were putting progressively more powerful but heavier engines in aircraft. This is most evident with the 109 series over the years. This will tend to improve aircraft performance in every area *except* turning circle, which in turn leads to changes in tactics.

Even the seeming exception to the rule, the very fast, very good turning F4U-4 must be considered carefully. Its wing-loading is not so very low relative other craft, it gets its turn from a massive boost in lift created by very large flaps.
Title: Re: stupidest question ever
Post by: bozon on April 20, 2009, 04:51:30 AM
What makes one plane turn better than another? 

For instance, why does the 190A8 roll so well but turn like crap? Why does the zero turn so well but not roll that great?
Though it initially sounds like one, this is NOT a stupid question at all.  As some people above said, it is actually very complicated and even the meaning of "turn better" is very poorly defined. In certain conditions, 190A8 turns better than many other planes. This is what makes dog fighting so interesting and makes the pilot a much more important part of the equation.