Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: flakbait on October 23, 2000, 02:18:00 PM
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Since the other thread turned into a real whine session, I'm posting all further results here.
Total scores as of rosco's post:
P-47M: 14
P-47N: 14
P-51H: 22
Fw-190 D9: 67
Fw-190 F8: 36
Ta-152 H1: 46
Tempest V: 44
Spitfire XIV: 39
F4u-4: 21
La-7: 36
Yak-9UT: 28
Top 3:
Fw-190 D9
Ta-152 H1
Tempest V
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000
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Go yak go! Ahh well, least the tempest is hanging in there.
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Current score is, as of Rocket's post, not counting Soup Nazi, Hairball or any 4th+ choices, as follows:
P-47M 15
P-47N 12
P-51H 28
Fw 190D-9 78
Fw 190F-8 38
Ta 152H-1 49
Tempest V 44
Spitfire XIV 54
F4U-4 21
La-7 43
Yak-9UT 30
And the score, weighted by choice number (1st pick gives 3 points, 2nd pick gives 2 points and 3rd pick gives 1 point), as of Rocket's post, not counting Soup Nazi, Hairball or any 4th+ choices, is as follows:
P-47M 36
P-47N 23
P-51H 65
Fw 190D-9 178
Fw 190F-8 65
Ta 152H-1 102
Tempest V 77
Spitfire XIV 109
F4U-4 48
La-7 73
Yak-9UT 52
Be your own judge as to which system you like better.
It seems that the two systems match on results. The Fw190D-9 has pulled out into a very clear 1st place, followed distantly by the Spitfire MkXIV which has edged slightly ahead of the Ta152H-1.
The top 3 choices are, by scoring system, as follows:
Unweighted Score:
Fw190D-9: 78
Spitfire MkXIV: 54
Ta152H-1: 49
Weighted Score:
Fw190D-9: 178
Spitfire MkXIV: 109
Ta152H-1: 102
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 10-23-2000).]
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Keep in mind that Pyro, HT, Superfly, Natedog all have to put there votes in to.
Im sure there imput will help greatly..
Dog out..
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Heck, I'd cut the numbers based on the fact we're talking about modifications to existing art models, and exclude repeat votes for variants on the same design.
(In short, cut out the guys who vote all allied or all FW. Come on. enough of the Rah-rah crap and get the La-7 in there!)
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Wardog,
True. They just wanted our opinions. I'm just tallying the current totals so that those interested can keep track.
Dinger,
I don't agree. The poll asked what our top three choices were, in order of preference. There was no qualifier that we had to pick one each from three of the four nationalities list. Just our top three. Some of us picked a mix suits, and some picked all theirs from the same suit. Its all valid.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Originally posted by Dinger:
Heck, I'd cut the numbers based on the fact we're talking about modifications to existing art models, and exclude repeat votes for variants on the same design.
(In short, cut out the guys who vote all allied or all FW. Come on. enough of the Rah-rah crap and get the La-7 in there!)
Oh OK; so just because I happen to like flying Luftwaffe airplanes and responded with the vote of the 3 planes I would like to see in the game most my vote should not count? Man don't you get it here. At least the developers are asking for our input. They have always asked what it was WE the PAYING customer wanted in the game and they have responded GLADLY.
You want the LA-7 go fly Fighter Ace 2. Join in with all the others that fly the Soviet killing machine and fly against under modeled German planes and Super Spitfire XIV's with twice the armor they should have and no hit on ROC. BUT please don't ever automatically discount someones vote just because they want a particular set of aircraft in the game.
Lastly for the Focke Wulf airplanes they were not "variants on the same design" so much as they were redesigned to perform the tasks better than the last design. Hence the frequent changes in powerplant and sometimes fuselage length and components.
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Maj. LJK_Reschke
Kommandeur Jagdbomber,
StaffelKapitaen I-31 LJK
www.luftjagerkorps.com
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Originally posted by Dinger:
Heck, I'd cut the numbers based on the fact we're talking about modifications to existing art models, and exclude repeat votes for variants on the same design.
(In short, cut out the guys who vote all allied or all FW. Come on. enough of the Rah-rah crap and get the La-7 in there!)
WAAAAHHHH WAAAAAHHHH THE VOTATION WAS UNFAIR! THEY VOTED WHAT I DIDNT LIKE!!
WAAAAAH WAAAAAHHH!!!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
And now,seriously:
Originally posted by Pyro:
Just take it from the perspective of what planes would interest you to fly.
I have interest in flying 190D9.
I have interest in flying 190F8.
I have interest in flying Ta152.
And you are nobody to tell me how must I vote. I didnt told you. Period.
I suggest you not to cry and squeak this way if in the next elections in your country the elected candidate is not the one you wanted.
Or maybe you'll hit the street yelling:
"ITS NOT FAIR! I DIDNT WANT HIM!"?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Here's my excuse:
Ta 152H-1
Legendary plane I would surely want to try in a sim that has the FM of AH quality. I tried it in EAW player add-on and CFS player add-on, but you already know how good those FMs are.
Next, I'd like to see why was Willi Reschke so impressed by the plane. It would be fun to recreate his fight against Tempests.
However, the idea of taking a TA 152 against Spit V or C.205 doesn't interest me at all. A historical perversion, if you ask me.
Fw 190D-9
That thing is so beautiful. The best looking prop plane to me.
Remember that P 51B vs Fw 190D-9 from Shaw ? I wanna see how it goes here (yes, I'd like to see P 51B too).
Comparing arena stats vs Spit XIV would be interesting too. Especially in scenarios.
Also, I believe Robert Shaw said Dora would be his choice of a plane in WW2.
Fw 190F-8
Just to round up 190 series with a ground pounder. I probably wouldn't fly it much, but am very interested in taking it in anti fighter role instead of Fw 190A-8.
Those reasons good enough for you ?
My next votes would be:
Spitfire XIV
No fun to fight RAF with their early/mid war planes.
Tempest V
Same as above.
La 7
Same as above. Also, Soviet contingent deserves another good plane. They are quake-free crowd too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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Guys,
happens that Dinger is an axis-squad flier, like me, so cool down. Do you really think that if Dora and TA152 will be the first two most voted a/c then we'll really get both? LOL ... wake-up!
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GATT
4° Stormo Caccia - Knights (http://www.4stormo.it)
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Ta-152 H1
I've read so much on this aircraft it's hard NOT to ask for it. Bewteen photos and performance, I'll take it any day. Even if I end up flying it offline or in H2H.
Fw-190 D9
Same goes for this aircraft. But as I said in another post, if we get a purple paint job [ala Wbs] I'm gonna kill someone!
Yak-9UT
Sounds like a great aircraft from the limited info I've found.
Balance is an issue yes. But should we consider it in a vote? HELL NO. Pyro requested we tell him, from a pre-set list, which aircraft we'd like to fly. I think it would be great if this happened every time a new aircraft was set to be put in. We could vote on it, instead of getting it "just because".
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000
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Flakbait, I was surprised that so many want to see Ta 152 here. Of Dora I understand, some like it, some chose it to shut us whiners up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
In fact, judging by the guessed customer base, I feared the vote would go heavily into P47M/F4U-4 territory.
But this ? I am stunned.
Please note that I am not against planes like P47M or F4U-4. Until they fly and fight enemies they fought in real life.
People who ask for these planes are not dweebs asking for a crutch. More likely they just love the planes. IMO, 190A-8 pilot who switches to Dora or even Ta 152 is not dweeb. IF he was one, he would fly P 51D in early beta, switch to P 38 when it was first introduced, then go to C-Hog, switch to A-5 or P47 in 1.03, then to C-Hog or Niki in 1.04.
P.S.
Gatt, those are my fears still. One yes, but both ? Hardly, I'm afraid. Some P 47M wil lfind its way in at least (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
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Alright guys, let's go through it again, slowly.
First, I ain't gonna whine about anything that is not in a current version of AH.
Second, I usually don't whine about the stuff that's going on in AH anyway.
Third, stop thinking with yer uh -- joysticks and face the facts:
A. HTC is under no obligation to count these votes in the way you tell them.
B. Adding planes is a highly political matter: the designers have to make their selections with an eye to appeasing the most people and pissing off the least. A lot of this is arena balancing. Worse, they have to worry about recruiting new players -- anybody notice how only the "FW Fan Club" got upset when I suggested cutting out the "bullet voters"? Maybe what this game needs is more allied squads. So I can't imagine them going for 3 FWs.
C. Think about what this vote means in general: They have a LOT of work to do on 1.05, and the artists, after spending long hours making every little polygon for the CV, landing craft, pt boats and the such, might enjoy an easy knock-off design. In any case, HTC needs to crank out some more planes, and given the enormous requirements of 1.05, this is the fastest way to do it. So don't whine about aircraft not on the list. And don't expect them to produce a suite of FW-variants so they can advertise "5 new planes in 1.05" -- can you imagine the derision? "Yeah, 5 new FWs". That's all I'm saying.
In short, you can't always have what you want to fly, so don't expect it to be Christmas for you and you alone (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
(Oh, and BTW: the Ta-152 will definitely be a perk plane. The F8 won't. Will the Dora? Those of you already squeaking about something that you haven't even seen should consider voting for non-perkable aircraft)
Dinger
<edit> OK, think about the ones you'd like to fly. That's all you need to know. But don't think that your raw vote is all these guys have to take into consideration. I'm not telling you how to vote, I was just speculating on how the vote is going to be considered. And if every FW lover votes for the Dora, the F8 and the Ta-152, the ones whose votes decide which of the three HTC makes will be the guys who vote for the Tempest and the P51H.</edit>
[This message has been edited by Dinger (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Hristo,
Time to repost that pic of the dora in red panties! If they gunna add her she should look her best! That red w/ white pinstripe looked awesome. Give NATE and SF something to work on (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
S!
Rocket
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Gatt I completely agree. We might see a D9 or a Ta-152, but not both at the same time. We might end up getting an La-7, Spitfire Mk. XIV, or even a Tempest V. All we can do is sit and wait. Pyro might be counting the ones with the least votes and not the most.
It can go either way.
Hristo, I've loved the Ta-152 since I first read about it. Joe Baugher's pages only added to that. The entire Fw-190 series I've always liked, mostly the A4 and G-series. Same goes for an Me-410, and most definitely the Komet.
Now what would get them to stick a Komet in this game I wonder......<scratches chin>
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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000
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The top 3 choices are, as of Rocket's post, by scoring system, as follows:
Unweighted Score:
Fw190D-9: 78
Spitfire MkXIV: 54
Ta152H-1: 49
Weighted Score:
Fw190D-9: 178
Spitfire MkXIV: 109
Ta152H-1: 102
The Spitfire MkXIV is leading the Ta152H-1 right now. Both are far behind the Fw190D-9.
Sisu
-Karnak
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Originally posted by Dinger:
(Oh, and BTW: the Ta-152 will definitely be a perk plane. The F8 won't. Will the Dora? Those of you already squeaking about something that you haven't even seen should consider voting for non-perkable aircraft)
Dinger
[This message has been edited by Dinger (edited 10-24-2000).]
Dinger, first of all. I dont say (will never dare to do) what HTC has to do, but the D9 petition is massive. So I guess they'll include it.
Second of all; you said that the vote of the people who voted for all same country planes should be DELETED, and NOT TAKEN IN ACCOUNT. This is intolerable from my point of view.
third of all; If Fw190D9 is perked, is perked.I doubt it will be, but Is HTC's choice, and they are free to do as they feel is right,its their company ,game and decission.
But I want that damned plane in AH and I vote it. And I want to see a Ta152 modelled, and I vote it. I vote the plane I want, regardelss if it is perk, non perk, uberperk, supraperk or gallactical TIE fighter. You are noone to say what must I vote or not ,if it is perked or not... Is what I want and I say it.
You can agree or disagree with people.
But you can't say "delete their posts" because they voted as you don't think is right.
You can't say "vote this, not that" to make people not vote perk planes.
HTC will look at the poll and extract their own conclusions. They won't pass over people's votes, they maybe will choose two or three planes from that list and, who knows, model them for 1.06 or whenever they can.
Your posts are inadmissible. Agree or disagree but respect the other's vote!
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Hey, this ain't a democracy. They have the right to exclude any vote they want, and they will exclude some votes. I don't see Hairball's opinion counting for much.
And I can say "Delete their votes" if I choose; and HTC can go ahead and do so, but come on, the folks at HTC are not stupid.
But I did piss you off (no points for RAM-baiting, I guess) ; and further I succeeded in pointing out a simple detail:
if HTC implements a single plane, the all-FW ticket will help your cause.
if HTC implements two or more, voting all-FW is foolish.
Come on, the FWs are the only axis planes out there. Do you really think these guys would piss all the JGs off by making even more Allied late-war variants? But if you vote all-FW, you're effectively excluding yourself from deciding which one you'd like to see, and your votes are de facto cut out.
I can certainly say "vote this, don't vote that" if I feel like it. This is what campaigning is all about. Of course, campaigning can only hurt axis fans: 11 possible planes, and only 3 are axis, and all those 3 will be based on the 190 model. If the allies got organized and actively campaigned for say the Tempest V, Spit XIV and P47M, the votes would look different.
Furthermore, I don't care about perk planes, and refuse to express an opinion until the system is implemented. But there are plenty of people who do, and if they are worried about it, they shouldn't vote for planes that will be perked. And it's perfectly legitimate to point this out to those who vote.
Finally, none of this has to do with respecting or disrespecting anybody's vote. I did not say that the all-FW or all-allied votes were unworthy of respect.
[This message has been edited by Dinger (edited 10-24-2000).]
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Originally posted by Dinger:
Alright guys, let's go through it again, slowly.
First, I ain't gonna whine about anything that is not in a current version of AH.
Second, I usually don't whine about the stuff that's going on in AH anyway.
Third, stop thinking with yer uh -- joysticks and face the facts:
A. HTC is under no obligation to count these votes in the way you tell them.
B. Adding planes is a highly political matter: the designers have to make their selections with an eye to appeasing the most people and pissing off the least. A lot of this is arena balancing. Worse, they have to worry about recruiting new players -- anybody notice how only the "FW Fan Club" got upset when I suggested cutting out the "bullet voters"? Maybe what this game needs is more allied squads. So I can't imagine them going for 3 FWs.
Yeah I got upset but not because I like LUFTWAFFE planes but because you said "(In short, cut out the guys who vote all allied or all FW. Come on. enough of the Rah-rah crap and get the La-7 in there!)" I find it EXTREMELY refreshing that Pyro would even consider asking for our opinions on FUTURE planes to be added. So if you want the La-7 or Spitfire XIV go play FA2 and be happy they are in there since they are the easiest to fly in that game. Oh but just be prepared that you will not hear from any one associated with the development team since they have been "working" on new maps for almost a year now and the "update/patches" change aircraft performance like the wind changing from north to south. That is if you ever see another "update/patch" in there.
I don't care if the planes we voted on come out in 1.05 or not I just would like to see them added at some future date. For now I can suffice with the D9 and Ta-152 models in CFS and EAW. But I would like to see them in a game I play more than anything else.
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Maj. LJK_Reschke
Kommandeur Jagdbomber,
StaffelKapitaen I-31 LJK
www.luftjagerkorps.com
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Originally posted by Dinger:
Hey, this ain't a democracy. They have the right to exclude any vote they want, and they will exclude some votes. I don't see Hairball's opinion counting for much.
And I can say "Delete their votes" if I choose; and HTC can go ahead and do so, but come on, the folks at HTC are not stupid
You hit it in the nails. Goal. Home run. Score!.
THEY Can do what they want and delete the votes they want to. YOU can't. It is a difference.
And yess you pissed me off. I find innaceptable that someone has to tell me how to vote, or pretends to delete my vote because I have voted MY favorite planes.
HTC can do what they want and I'll accept it. But they are HTC. You aren't.
I hope that you see the difference, here.
But if you vote all-FW, you're effectively excluding yourself from deciding which one you'd like to see, and your votes are de facto cut out.
And you still say this. Read Pyro's post: he asks for the planes we WANT TO FLY in Aces high. Who are YOU to say that we MUST vote for different countries' planes or our vote is cut and deleted?. Pyro said no words aobut this.
I dont have the desire to fly a SpitXIV, nor a F4U4, nor a La7, nor a P51H, nor any of the other planes, over the desire to fly a 190D9, a 190F8 or a Ta152. If I had been given 4 votes I'd vote for a SpitXIV. but I was given 3, and so I voted the 3 I wanted.
I dont have to put "points" per country. I have to look inside me and say "these are the planes I want to fly". I have to vote my 3 preferences in that list.
And I did just that.
Fw190D9
Fw190F8
Ta152H1
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[edit] Pyro gave us the chance to vote for our preferences, and see where do we end...[/edit]
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-24-2000).]
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The last time I say anything on this matter.
You're right about what Pyro said.
And, you're right I have no power here, so my statements about cutting out one side or the other are indeed the epitaxis of a contrary-to-fact conditional.
My point is, and I seem to think it hasn't sunk in, that if you want to go ahead and do what Pyro told you, fine; but if you want your vote to have the greatest impact, you should consider how they're going to count it. The model I'm betting on (and I could be mistaken) is something like:
Use the votes to determine the top three variants of different aircraft.
There's no doubt one will be a FW. So now, let's consider the LW plane voting separately:
For example:
Ta-152H1: 11 votes
FW-190F8: 12 votes
FW-190D9: 11 votes
If you submit a vote for all of the candidates, you've changed nothing (12-13-12) and you'll be stuck with a lousy ground-pounder instead of some late-war hotrod high-altitude interceptor.
If you vote for only the Ta152, you've actually changed the standings (12-12-11). Then you could use your other two votes against anything equipped with a HS.
In other words, the LW planes are actually competing among themselves (Do you really think they'll come out with both the Dora and the 152?), and the allied planes likewise.
Anyway, your vote is cast, and nobody really knows what goes on at HTC.
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If that is what you wanted to mean, allow me to tell you that you did it in a way that noone could see it.
I voted the planes I want. I dont mind other considerations, I was asked to put the planes I want and I did it.
Originally posted by Dinger:
In other words, the LW planes are actually competing among themselves (Do you really think they'll come out with both the Dora and the 152?).
Yes, I do. 190D9 as non perk plane and Ta152 as perk plane. Maybe not in the same version, but the first clear perk plane classified is the Ta152. So I have no doubts about wich will be the first perk plane...
Just as I don't have any doubt about 190D9 coming soon (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 10-24-2000).]