Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Saurdaukar on April 23, 2009, 09:51:02 AM
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Those of you who use (or have used) Track IR, What are your thoughts?
Is it the sort of product, like rudder pedals, that you wonder how you did without after using it?
Or, alternatively, is it an overpriced piece of crap which complicates the whole experience for no real benefit?
(We need a poll option, HTC)
-Mike
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Can't fly without it anymore. Massively enhanced the immersion factor.
But it's the most "personal" type of gear, so you absolutely have to tweak it's settings until you're comfortable
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Not having it is like not having no arms.
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Can't fly without it anymore. Massively enhanced the immersion factor.
But it's the most "personal" type of gear, so you absolutely have to tweak it's settings until you're comfortable
Ok. Thats promising.
Let me give you some context. About 3 months ago I finally broke down and bought a proper HOTAS and rudder pedal setup.
I still use the key pad for views - hate the hat switches - but then my ability to maximize throttle use while engaged is hampered.
What Im seeking is a way to free up my left hand for the throttle whilst maintaining proper SA.
Im thinking, without having tried it, that Track IR might do the trick.
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Here's something I thought about but have never tries, wonder if anyone else has tried it.... Set up for Mouse Look, move the mouse over to your left hand... Then map your throttle to the scroll wheel on the mouse.
Anybody tried that? Not even certain that you can map the throttle to a mouse scroll wheel.
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what kind of stick did you get. If it is CH I can tell you what I did with the high 8 way hat.
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I bought a TrackIR as soon as I realized that this game would be a mainstay on my computer and I can't say that I'm disappointed.
As mentioned above, once you get it set up so that it's comfortable for you (and you can see out of the F4U), you'll feel handicapped without it.
One thing (and I have written to Natural Point about it) I don't like the "Track Clip Pro" with the LEDs on it. It's just another cord to get in the way, and it moves every time you adjust your headset... I just use the basic 3 reflector hat clip on top of my headset and couldn't be happier. My advice would be to save yourself a couple of bucks and not order the "TrackClip Pro" option.
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Hello Mazz,
This is perfect timing on your post. My b-day is a coming and the wife said "what do you want special for your birthday"? Well other than the usual carnal(LOL) thoughts, I spouted I would like to look into track IR. I have been asking some squaddies who use it, and a few said that they are not able to get the full view range that is available when you map to hats. Can anyone comment on this? The immersion & freeing of my really sore thumb would be great, I am just wondering what I may give up in view in the process.
Have a great day,
Way
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what kind of stick did you get. If it is CH I can tell you what I did with the high 8 way hat.
No, Everything is Saitek which, although opinion seemed to vary while I was researching, I love.
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Hello Mazz,
This is perfect timing on your post. My b-day is a coming and the wife said "what do you want special for your birthday"? Well other than the usual carnal(LOL) thoughts, I spouted I would like to look into track IR. I have been asking some squaddies who use it, and a few said that they are not able to get the full view range that is available when you map to hats. Can anyone comment on this? The immersion & freeing of my really sore thumb would be great, I am just wondering what I may give up in view in the process.
Have a great day,
Way
waystin,
They haven't properly set it up. When I turn my head to look out my six, the head position also moves left/right accordingly so that I can get perfect views in the Mustang, and about as good as it gets in an F4U. Search the BBS, HomeBoy and Mace have posts containing setup information and a good starter profile that help immensely.
Tim
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I have been asking some squaddies who use it, and a few said that they are not able to get the full view range that is available when you map to hats. Can anyone comment on this?
Wrong setup.
Any view you can get with the hat view, you can get with TrackIr. The last problems in a few planes (F4u) where you couldn't move the head as far as you could do with conventional views, were fixed a long time ago.
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Thank you gentleman! I will tell the wife it is official. TrackIR for the B-day! :rock
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I couldn't get used to it. I felt like I lost my SA more with the Track IR. But I don't fly that much. So IMHO, if you fly a lot (more than 20 hours a month) then it should give you the time to acclimate your flying to the Track IR. If you don't fly that much, you'll be amazed how fast that ground comes up. Good luck.
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I still cannot get the (stable) rear views with trak IR (pro clip) that I could get with the hat views by moving the POI forward. Most Bloo planes I just dont fly any more as I have no practical rear view. Views on P51's, spits etc where there is a smaller back plate are no problem.
Also I cannot use the old F8 function in SB's and tanks for long range sighting once I have disabled Trak IR with F9. The only way to achieve this is to switch the whole utility off out of game.
I use a combination of Trak IR and hat whilst in game. Rear views apart it provides a significant step forward in SA.
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I still cannot get the (stable) rear views with trak IR (pro clip) that I could get with the hat views by moving the POI forward.
Do I understand you correctly - your head is too close to the headrest when using TIR to look back?
This is how it looks like for me when using TIR in a F4U-1a:
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9489/f4u1atir.jpg)
Absolutely no difference to hat views.
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As Lusche said - great for immersion, SA and also to free up hands.
First week you will hate it and wonder why you wasted the money, but it will soon get much better.
look at HomeBoy's guide (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,262111.0.html) based on Mace's excellent TrackIR profile.
Things like setting up snapshots, observing how much you lose/gain in rolling scissors, or just plain aiming will take some relearning as you no longer can rely as much on cockpit cues.
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Love it and still tweeking it a little.
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Do I understand you correctly - your head is too close to the headrest when using TIR to look back?
Basically yes combined with when I turn (and tilt) my head and lean back I hit my virtual head on a virtual cockpit side before I can see around rear the bulk head I am looking at.
With only POV hat settings you stick your head in a position that puts your head virtually over the gun sight when looking back (a position a pilot could never actually achieve). This made the rear bulk head shrink considerably.
I may also be further encumbered by the position of my sender unit which sits ontop of the screen (above me) such that as I move my head my view rises and falls accordingly unless I flat line it (or damp the effect) in set up.
I am advised by fellow users of Trak IR using the reflector tree (on a cap) that this issue is less prevalent then than when using the proclip thingy on the side of my head.
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Off topic - The poll option's in the upper right corner of the forum.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=post;board=9.0;poll
9.0 is general forum's number.
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Basically yes combined with when I turn (and tilt) my head and lean back I hit my virtual head on a virtual cockpit side before I can see around rear the bulk head I am looking at.
With only POV hat settings you stick your head in a position that puts your head virtually over the gun sight when looking back (a position a pilot could never actually achieve). This made the rear bulk head shrink considerably.
I may also be further encumbered by the position of my sender unit which sits ontop of the screen (above me) such that as I move my head my view rises and falls accordingly unless I flat line it (or damp the effect) in set up.
I am advised by fellow users of Trak IR using the reflector tree that this issue is less prevalent then than when using the proclip thingy on the side of my head.
Oh yeah, turn off "tilt" or "roll" as I believe it's called in the profile... It's distracting. Track IR supports all 6 depths of field, but every profile I've seen only used 5... It was the first thing I did when I installed mine.
I don't like the side-of-the-head clip either... the hat clip is much better.
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Basically yes combined with when I turn (and tilt) my head and lean back I hit my virtual head on a virtual cockpit side before I can see around rear the bulk head I am looking at.
When initially centering your TIR, lean forward and a bit down. This way your virtual head position will be as far back & up as possible when looking forward, but at the same time as far forward (towards the windscreen) when turning your head to look back.
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Oh yeah, turn off "tilt" or "roll" as I believe it's called in the profile... It's distracting. Track IR supports all 6 depths of field, but every profile I've seen only used 5... It was the first thing I did when I installed mine.
I use roll, just a little bit tuned down.
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Oh yeah, turn off "tilt" or "roll" as I believe it's called in the profile... It's distracting. Track IR supports all 6 depths of field, but every profile I've seen only used 5... It was the first thing I did when I installed mine.
Hmmmm actually roll allows me to see ( a little) further around the bulk head....(the cockpit glass does not seem to be vertical)....I had it flat lined before.
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That just exhibits the versatility of the TrackIR. I don't care for the the roll, but I see some of you do!
Also, I set a slight "deadzone" in the X axis, otherwise my piper would drift pretty bad (missed a lot of shots that way).
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When initially centering your TIR, lean forward and a bit down. This way your virtual head position will be as far back & up as possible when looking forward, but at the same time as far forward (towards the windscreen) when turning your head to look back.
Thanks Lusche............ I do do this..... ie to see the gun sight I have to crouch down behind it............. much to the ammusement of wife et al who then know I am going to shoot something..........so I hear stacato machine gun immitations from those wishing to deride my attempts of virtual air combat
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If you get that level of rear view in a corsair, from Track IR, then Im getting one. That is a tremendous rear view.
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If you get that level of rear view in a corsair, from Track IR, then Im getting one. That is a tremendous rear view.
It's exactly the same as when using the hat view ;)
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I've used TrackIR2, 3 and most recently a TrackIR4 with the new Proclip.
I simply could not get used to it, I found the hat switches more precise (more so with 6 views). The only benefit I found was a nice smooth tracking of targets, in particular with the 30mm, so the enemy a/c moved into the gun sight from the front side panels to the front view in a much more gentle state than the hat switches could give.
I've tried aggressive as well as much more gentle curves for it, all without success. I'm going to hold onto my TrackIR4 to make films for any 38 students and for another game called 'Jumpgate', but otherwise it will collect dust.
I have used hat switches for about 15 years now, my views were always very close to the same in each sim I was in and I guess I just can't make the transfer.
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For some of you who may consider the price a bit steep, you might want to consider FreeTrack (FT) as an alternative to TrackIR. Like TIR, FT provides 6DOFs in AHII.
My 2 cents: I decided to go this route because I wanted to use head-tracking with a 3 monitor set up that I recently rigged up , but given the outlay i'd put into that, buying a TIR was a one-way ticket to divorce court. About 3 or 4 guys in my squad use TIR, and they all rave about it, so this prompted my interest in head tracking.
Most folk build their own reflector clips or LED trees for FT. However, when I thought about it, I didn't want to use reflectors due to my concern over camera sensitivity, and the tutorials I found for homebuilt LED headgear were usually battery-powered. So I spent a little extra and bought a TIR Pro Clip ($35 from NaturalPoint or GoGamer), hooked it up to an easily modified webcam (MS VX6000, a gift), and downloaded FreeTrack (as in... free) at www.free-track.net.
The VX6000 camera works incredibly well with FT, it's very sensitive and gives a full FPS receptivity. All I did was remove the internal infrared filter, which took 3 minutes total time. FreeTrack is well-featured software, on a par with TIR's software, I think. And the Pro Clip works just fine with it, and is USB powered, which is what I wanted.
FT BENEFITS:
Cheaper
Comparable (IMO) to TIR: full-featured GUI
Works with all games that support TIR
AHII recognizes it just fine for all 6DOFs
Robust user community (help, tips, etc.)
FT DRAWBACKS:
A do-it-yourself solution: involves sweat equity
No warranties
English documentation isn't as good as the original manuals (in French).
If using a Pro Clip, you'll have the extra wire for that to deal with.
IMPRESSIONS:
i've only been using it about 2-3 weeks. Most of the first week was spent trying to get my settings correct, as I was trying to make this work with 3 monitors. I've mostly gotten it, but because I have to traverse more screen real-estate, I think it's still too sensitive when my head is traversing views toward the side and rear of the plane (yaw, mostly). I think this is not an issue with the software, but rather that I just haven't gotten the settings tweaked correctly YET. A work in progress on that issue.
I use and enjoy it immensely, but I have some of the same issues with the American naval planes as others do. I've used the "forward/down" centering trick, but so far I haven't got it quite right, and my views in the blue iron planes is sometimes dismal (I love the FM2 for field defense, but now I'm reluctant to use it because all I see is the rear bulkhead). That rear view that Lusche (think it was Lusche) posted still evades me. To get around this, I kept my hat switch view-mapped and sometimes use it for rear views, like others have said.
IMO, TIR/FT have a big impact on SA and immersion (especially in three panels). It may not make you a stone killer in the air, but it adds to the virtual experience. Your head is now separated from the plane. If the plane banks, your head is free to maintain other aspects, closer to a real life experience, I think. At first its bewildering but you learn to use finer head movements and I find I can track stuff, especially anything at or ahead of my 3-9 line, with natural ease. Gunnery needs to be relearned though, and I'm working on that, but I find that I can take snapshots now that I couldn't before. Go figure.
FWIW,
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I love my trackir. Flight simming would never be the same for me without it.
I use the reflectors that clip on the hat. I've tried the track clip-pro or what ever it's called but the reflectors work better for me. I think the camera placement is more critical with the led lights and I never could get it in a position where it would work as well as the reflectors do for me. I use a very aggressive profile so I hardly have to move my head.
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Also I cannot use the old F8 function in SB's and tanks for long range sighting once I have disabled Trak IR with F9. The only way to achieve this is to switch the whole utility off out of game.
You can change the hot keys, you know.
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Do I understand you correctly - your head is too close to the headrest when using TIR to look back?
This is how it looks like for me when using TIR in a F4U-1a:
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9489/f4u1atir.jpg)
Absolutely no difference to hat views.
I cannot seem to get anywhere near that much of a six view with the TrackIR. I've had one for nearly two years and rarely use it. I have complete loss of SA with it, not to mention constantly having to recenter the gunsight. I have squadmates that won't fly without it, I can't seem to fly with it.
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Wraith,
I did the same thing. As I said above, I only use the hat clip - but I purchased the TrackClip Pro so I modified a Logitech QuickCam Communicate (busting out the IR filter glass and replacing it with a piece of unexposed camera film). I gave the setup to a friend who was interested in TrackIR - but couldn't justify the price. In my testing, the FreeTrack wasn't "quite" as smooth as the TIR, but it was pretty good.
The TIR really shines when you're "riding a blackout" and you can still keep your head perfectly trained on the enemy aircraft. It's just so intuitive.
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Bought it, set it up, used it, didn't like it, sold it.
Fred
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If you get that level of rear view in a corsair, from Track IR, then Im getting one. That is a tremendous rear view.
Thats the F4U-1 ? I never fly that one so I'll have to check. But I dont remember ever getting that good a look to the rear from the other Corsairs.
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Tried flying with the hatswitches, couldn't grasp it. Bought the TrackIR and love it. Wouldn't fly without it. That being said, I hated the Pro thingy that clips to the headphones, and went back to the "reflectors" on a baseball cap.
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Thats the F4U-1 ? I never fly that one so I'll have to check. But I dont remember ever getting that good a look to the rear from the other Corsairs.
It's the -1A in the picture
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I can get the view that Lusche posted.............it just does not come naturally if I want to quickly check my 6. (and I have had trak IR for nearly a year now)
Quickly turning and rolling with a slight sideways movement gives me a view that still has the rear bulkhead filling more than half the screen with no view over it. To achieve the view Lusche posted I then "adjust" from that position (leaning back a bit further and optimising my roll agaianst the virtual cockpit glass) which usually means I am spending 2secs achieving a view I want to achieve in part of a second.
To compensate for this in Blooo planes I end up kicking the rudder or imparting a mini flick roll to see behind me. Not very efficient when I am just checking 6 prior to guns on another bogie.
Incidently with the proclip the action is definatly different depending on whether I turn my head left or right. Rotating to the right (in my case) moves the clip closer to the sensor. Rotating to the left moves the clip further away. Which inturn imparts the corresponding forward backward movement on screen.
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This is a short (44 MB) movie showing my views & head movements in a 109 in offline mode: http://www.mediafire.com/?mz4ymxzlmgx
I think I will make one about TIR & the F4U with narrated commentary this weekend.
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Lusche is getting such good rear view because he's using Dentin's patch.
Sorry, that was mean. :devil
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:lol
No, no patch, just out of the box, set to "aggressive" and a bit tweaking on the axes :)
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Wraith,
I did the same thing. As I said above, I only use the hat clip - but I purchased the TrackClip Pro so I modified a Logitech QuickCam Communicate (busting out the IR filter glass and replacing it with a piece of unexposed camera film). I gave the setup to a friend who was interested in TrackIR - but couldn't justify the price. In my testing, the FreeTrack wasn't "quite" as smooth as the TIR, but it was pretty good.
:salute :aok
Yep, I've noticed that many FT users prefer the Logitechs and MS Lifecams (VX line) because they're the easiest to modify. In my case, I didn't even need to attach the unexposed camera film to the VX6000. I just removed the IR filter and it works okay as is with the pro clip, even in well-lighted conditions in my home office, but its probable that this isn't the norm.
I find my VX6000 works pretty well, but TIR is optimized to work as a complete camera/headgear and software system, so that probably makes a big difference. Now I just have to tweak settings until its "just" right.
Gotta love that immersive quality in these doodads... they :rock
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Lusche is getting such good rear view because he's using Dentin's patch.
Sorry, that was mean. :devil
Just a regular `ol meanie you are. :t Anyone wishing to purchase a TrackIR, goto the following site and snag the coupon.
http://dslyecxi.com/
FYI, the "patch" was originally from Mace :P
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I used the hat switch for years.
I got Track IR a couple of months ago. It's so much smaller, and so much more.. precise.. .than I had imagined!
I too played with free track, but never could quite get it to work right. I think the old Logitech webcam I was trying to use just couldn't get the focus right. Never could get it to work reliably.
Last week, I was heating up some leftovers while my plane was climbing out, and I heard a check six call. I come back to the computer, and sat down real quick and got into a 1v1 except I hadn't put on my trackir gear. I was trying to keep SA using the hat switch, and I had gotten so used to the Track IR in such a little time, I just couldn't keep track of anything without it. I ended up winning the fight, but only because he was a poor shot.
I too had to turn off the 'roll' axis... well I didn't turn it off completely... just moved it all the way down. This way I still get maybe 5 degrees of movement.. just enough to make it seem 'realistic' but not enough to screw with me.
If you have no problems flying around looking at different directions (looking forward maybe only 20% of the time), then you'll LOVE Track-IR... but if you're the type that has to look forward almost all the time to keep track of what your plane is doing, you might not like it so much.
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Do I understand you correctly - your head is too close to the headrest when using TIR to look back?
This is how it looks like for me when using TIR in a F4U-1a:
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/9489/f4u1atir.jpg)
Absolutely no difference to hat views.
Is that a custom mouse cursor as a gunsite?
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Is that a custom mouse cursor as a gunsite?
Yes it is, though I can't remember who made it.
I thought it could help me when gunning in Wirbel- & Ostwind, but it isn't really better than the regular cursor.
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The ONLY thing I don't like about TIR is that you can't use some of the gunsights in game with it (5in etc, tank sights, and irons on old models, as they don't have front sights to line up with). You can turn TrackIR off, but at this point I hate doing anything without it! Really sucks in the Ju88. (Actually this is more of a problem with Aces High II than TrackIR). However it makes using newer model iron sights really cool, since you have to line up the sights and hold your head still.
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I usually disable TIR with the hotkey during GV ops, unless driving/looking from the commander's seat. When I need to shoot anything, I'll disable it except in airplanes - I rarely fly without it active.