Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: juice on April 27, 2009, 05:16:47 PM
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can someone please tell me why the P39Q and the P38L have the same eny? i don't understand...
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You can't see out of a P-39Q.
P-38L is BIG thus making it easy to shoot.
I don't think you are actually disputing the P-39's ENY value, are you. (doh!) Unless you think both should be greater (The P-39s that is).
:D
wrongway
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Whats ENY? I just fly the planes I want to, if one gets locked out, I pick another one.
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Fight for the low #'s side if you don't want to deal with ENY.
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Whats ENY? I just fly the planes I want to, if one gets locked out, I pick another one.
Fight for the low #'s side if you don't want to deal with ENY.
Gee...those two stellar replies really do a bang up job in answering the OP's question regarding why the P-39Q and the P-38L have the same ENY. Anymore insightful answers you want to reveal to us?
Anyway, to answer the OP's question. My guess would be because of the rarity of the P-39Q-1 we have modeled in the game. Think there was around 150 or so produced. At least that's why I would guess it has the same ENY as the P-38L. HiTech would probably be better able to answer this question though.
ack-ack
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I'm not sure "rarity" is necessarily the reason for an ENY of 20 for both planes.
I would suspect (perhaps the OP can verify) that the question is: "If ENY is an indication of a plane's performance, why do these two planes have the same ENY when their performance is quite different."
I could be all wet, though . . .
But assuming I am not, one must understand that ENY is basically set in increments of 5 (a few oddities like the 8 ENY 51D notwithstanding) leaving you only 8 levels (5 through 40) at which to put all the planes in the planeset. So, you will have planes with the same ENY that will be very different in performance.
Based on your flying style, the 38L might be a "20+" and the P-39Q a "20-", but their positions as 20 ENY planes are relative to the rest of the plane set. Neither are quite "bad" enough to be ENY 25 or "good" enough to be ENY 15 by whatever measuring stick HTC uses.
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can someone please tell me why the P39Q and the P38L have the same eny? i don't understand...
I question ever airplane's ENY, for example, why does a Spitfire IX have the same ENY as P39Q, or A6M5, or even the F4F?
BTW here is the ENY list http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Aircraft%2C_Vehicles_and_Boats_in_Main_Arenas (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Aircraft%2C_Vehicles_and_Boats_in_Main_Arenas)
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Gee...those two stellar replies really do a bang up job in answering the OP's question regarding why the P-39Q and the P-38L have the same ENY. Anymore insightful answers you want to reveal to us?
ack-ack
Well its a good thing you never posted any smart bellybutton remarks on these boards. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on with that statement! :D
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P-38L is BIG thus making it easy to shoot.
wrongway
I won't say it is easy to shoot. Yes, it dose have a large area surface but a thin profile.
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Gee...those two stellar replies really do a bang up job in answering the OP's question regarding why the P-39Q and the P-38L have the same ENY. Anymore insightful answers you want to reveal to us?
ack-ack
^^^ Love it. :lol
There are so many ENY discrepancies it's not even worth naming them all. I would think the 39Q should have a 25-30 eny and the 38L to probably be around where it is. Ultimately though, anything >20 eny very rarely affects restrictions on what you can fly. Rate of earning perkies is the only real issue here which most would agree is laughably unimportant.
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Well its a good thing you never posted any smart bellybutton remarks on these boards. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on with that statement! :D
Big difference between the typical whine post in these forums and someone with a legitimate question.
ack-ack
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There are so many ENY discrepancies it's not even worth naming them all. I would think the 39Q should have a 25-30 eny and the 38L to probably be around where it is. Ultimately though, anything >20 eny very rarely affects restrictions on what you can fly. Rate of earning perkies is the only real issue here which most would agree is laughably unimportant.
Is ENY based on performance? If so, then it's really off the mark with the P-39Q and the P-38L. In no way shape or form is the P-39Q close to the P-38L in terms of performance.
ack-ack
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Big difference between the typical whine post in these forums and someone with a legitimate question.
ack-ack
To me the OP sounded like the typical whine.
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This is a whine
How is the 109 K4 at 20 eny, same as Spit IX
Damn 109 K4 is near untouchable at all alts
wipass
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This is a whine
How is the 109 K4 at 20 eny, same as Spit IX
Damn 109 K4 is near untouchable at all alts
wipass
whilst i agree it is an uber ride, it has 65 taters that are fast firing, You have to be extremely disciplined to hold fire on most shots until the sights are definately on. The spits can easily spray with hispano and get lucky.
In a straight up fight what would you rather take a spit 9 or a 109k4?? I know I would go with the Spit 9 and easily beat most k4 pilots.
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whilst i agree it is an uber ride, it has 65 taters that are fast firing, You have to be extremely disciplined to hold fire on most shots until the sights are definately on. The spits can easily spray with hispano and get lucky.
In a straight up fight what would you rather take a spit 9 or a 109k4?? I know I would go with the Spit 9 and easily beat most k4 pilots.
I would go with the K4 and easily beat most Spit 9 pilots :P
But serously you are right with the fact that the K4 guns are definitely more difficult to employ successfully.
But, (and that is a big "but") the Spit 9 has usually no other choice as to stay & fight. The k4 can in most situations dictate the terms of a fight. It has the ability to engage & disengage at will. It's the freakin fastest prop plane 8k-25K, and still among the top ones below 6k.
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(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/BloodyBandage/thread_direction.gif)
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No different direction...just a different lane ;)
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Is ENY based on performance? If so, then it's really off the mark with the P-39Q and the P-38L. In no way shape or form is the P-39Q close to the P-38L in terms of performance.
ack-ack
Yeah, I think it's based on theoretical performance. Imo it should be based on popularity over the previous 6 months or something which would make things a lot more interesting since the MA is geared toward pilots flying the fastest planes with big guns. Take the D9 for example. It can't turn very well so it gets Eny'd at 15 I believe. 99% of pilots fly it strictly as B&Z in straight line vectors and then back into the horde for cover. So why does its turn performance even matter if nobody even tries to turn it? Flown like this which it is the vast majority of the time, it should be Eny 5. The popular rides are popular for a reason.
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Imo it should be based on popularity over the previous 6 months or something which would make things a lot more interesting since the MA is geared toward pilots flying the fastest planes with big guns.
Uhhh, no.
So, does the OP think the P-39 is too low? P-38 too high? Vice versa?
wrongway
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Uhhh, no.
wrongway
In your opinion.
There is a huge difference between a plane's overall performance potential and a plane's main arena potential. Don't you see the correlation between a plane's main arena success and its popularity? Look up the stats, 190D9 is one of the most popular rides and rightfully so. It is a dump truck of 20mm ammo, one of the fastest planes on the deck, and rolls like a dream. Yet its Eny is 15? So say you are a timid pick and run dweeb and all you do is fly the tempest in straight line vectors picking people off. Say the Eny goes up to 10. So now the pilot has to grab a 190D9 and fly straight line vectors in almost just as uber of a ride and then cut and run and zoom away? Or say Eny is at 9, the same pilot can grab a Typh and do the EXACT SAME THING. There's no eny penalty if you can do the exact same thing in a different ride! You can still fly the fastest planes with lethal ammo and kill at an alarmingly high rate even when Eny is high. Same thing goes for the P51D and the Typhoon. The fastest planes (which happen to be some of the most popular) should all be eny 5. Now all of a sudden the team getting ganged can actually run them down and stand a chance. What's the difference between getting ganged by a band of Typhs and D9's versus getting ganged by a band of F4u4s and Temps? Nothing!
In a 1v1, current Eny settings are more appropriate as it takes into account all sorts of factors. The D9 is an Eny 15 plane in a duel, absolutely. Can't turn well, but can spiral climb well, roll well, and maybe get a snap shot off to beat a more capable plane. But in the dynamic of the main arena? The dynamic that is about picking and then running to your friends? Easily eny 5. The <1% crowd that flies a plane to its potential doesn't define game play, the >99% that fly everything in one dimensional fashion does. :aok
I'm not saying I'm right, but this is how I see it. I also think it's comical that when Eny is at 7, I have to leave the Ta152 in the hangar and fly a much easier plane like the 190D9. :huh
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Your argument has already been hashed out here recently and I don't feel compelled to search for the link.
Popularity based ENY? I still say no.
wrongway
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I agree with Grizz on this one. The LW ENY is based off of everyone getting low and slow on the deck, the onlything a D9 can do it either try and rope the enemy or turn tail and run. Thats the way most people play so if you are basically invincible then shouldn't it be a 5 ENY plane.
Also i have no clue why the 109K4 is a 20 ENY plane, it turns good, accelerates well, fast as hell on the deck and at alt, long WEP time. If people say that a K4 can easily dispatch a P38 on the deck then why are they the same ENY?
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I agree with Grizz on this one. The LW ENY is based off of everyone getting low and slow on the deck, the onlything a D9 can do it either try and rope the enemy or turn tail and run. Thats the way most people play so if you are basicly invinsible then shouldn't it be a 5 ENY plane.
Also i have no clue why the 109K4 is a 20 ENY plane, it turns good, accelerates well, fast as hell on the deck and at alt, long WEP time. If people say that a K4 can easuly dispatch a P38 on the deck then why are thye the same ENY?
Because they just say it.....
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This is a whine
How is the Spit IX at 20 eny, same as 109 K4
Damn Spit IX is near untouchable at all alts
:D There you go :D
jokes aside, really, how do they have the same ENY?
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I hope something will come of thie thread. Can we possibl get hitech to explain why these ENY's are the same?
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Is ENY based on performance? If so, then it's really off the mark with the P-39Q and the P-38L. In no way shape or form is the P-39Q close to the P-38L in terms of performance.
jokes aside, really, how do they have the same ENY?
I hope something will come of thie thread. Can we possibl get hitech to explain why these ENY's are the same?
My guess . . .
. . . ENY is basically set in increments of 5 (a few oddities like the 8 ENY 51D notwithstanding) leaving you only 8 levels (5 through 40) at which to put all the planes in the planeset. So, you will have planes with the same ENY that will be very different in performance.
Based on your flying style, the 38L might be a "20+" and the P-39Q a "20-", but their positions as 20 ENY planes are relative to the rest of the plane set. Neither are quite "bad" enough to be ENY 25 or "good" enough to be ENY 15 by whatever measuring stick HTC uses.
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I hope something will come of thie thread. Can we possibl get hitech to explain why these ENY's are the same?
Doing a search, I found this particular post almost exactly from 2002.
Could Pyro or HiTech explain the logic behind ENYs?
Don't hold your breath?
wrongway
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thank you E25280 and Ack Ack for answering my question. i have flown both planes and the difference in performance is extreme. the lightning appears to be far superior to the airacobra. my question comes out of curiousity. i thought eny was a performance based rating standard but i guess there is more to it than that.
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Your argument has already been hashed out here recently and I don't feel compelled to search for the link.
Popularity based ENY? I still say no.
wrongway
Hashed out? This was the most compelling argument against eny based on popularity...
Hello Grizz,
I definitely say ENY should be set by the potential of an aircraft, not it's popularity. I am assuming that by popular you mean it's level of use in the MA's. Popularity is not a good measure of what an aircraft's ability can do to help a pilot to overcome his opponent. It is a measure of the MA populations top 10 list so to speak. I think there are probably planes both popular & unpopular that run the range on ENY from low potential to high potential. Although I will concede that most low ENY planes are probably quite popular. (Waiting for Lusche to come up with stats...) Some AH pilots can meet or exceed any aircraft's ENY potential, while a new pilot flying a high potential, popular, low ENY ride may never reach his/her chosen aircraft's true capabilities. So a measure of what an aircraft can do in a good pilot's hands truly is the best measure for establishing ENY.
Have a great day,
Way
This argument, while valid, totally applies to 1v1 fights which is not the dynamic of the main arena.
And as I said in previous post...
The <1% crowd that flies a plane to its potential doesn't define game play, the >99% that fly everything in one dimensional fashion does.
Eny should deal with the flow of the arena, not ranking planes how they will operate in a 1v1 fight. And the flow of the arena correlates with plane popularity.
You say no, but you don't explain why you say no. Please prove me wrong.
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The 39Q doesnt deserve the 20 ENY. The Yak-9T has a much better cannon, better roll and turn, and essentially equal climb and speed, yet it has 25 ENY. The 39Q does have better backup armament with the twin 50s and it can carry a 500lb bomb, so I could see making it a 25 ENY plane.
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I would guess it has something to do with the ammo load out, but you could make the same case with the FW190-A8 that has a ENY of 31.