Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sundowner on April 27, 2009, 08:17:03 PM
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Who's running the show? Is anyone thinking these things through before approval?
(Yes, it's not officially AF1 unless the POTUS is on board. But still... :huh)
Regards,
Sun
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/27/low.flying.plane/index.html
NEW YORK (CNN) -- A White House official apologized Monday after a low-flying Boeing 747 spotted above the Manhattan skyline frightened workers and residents into evacuating buildings.
Witnesses reported seeing the plane circle over the Upper New York Bay near the Statue of Liberty.
The huge aircraft, which functions as Air Force One when the president is aboard, was taking part in a classified, government-sanctioned photo shoot, the Federal Aviation Administration said.
"Last week, I approved a mission over New York. I take responsibility for that decision," said Louis Caldera, director of the White House Military Office. "While federal authorities took the proper steps to notify state and local authorities in New York and New Jersey, it's clear that the mission created confusion and disruption."
Witnesses reported seeing the plane circle over the Upper New York Bay near the Statue of Liberty before flying up the Hudson River. It was accompanied by two F-16s. Video Watch the plane fly over Manhattan »
Two officials told CNN the White House Military Office was trying to update its file photos of Air Force One. The officials said the president was angry when he learned Monday afternoon about the flight, which sparked fear in the New York-New Jersey area........
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Dee dah dee....
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:rofl they were taking pictures that were prolly gonna be used for PR, but instead they had a PR disaster :aok good job guys
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If I see a low fly airliner WITH 2 F16s nearby ... I'll wouldn't trip out. :lol
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Why isn't Algore complaining about all the pollution spewing out of that plane? Oh yeah, it's for a good cause. More propaganda for you know who.
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This thing has the technological capability to launch a nuclear strike and he doesnt know where it is?
Deny, deny, deny. And after a few days its buried on page 82.
Questions? See below.
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haha, silly americans. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN57C98B310 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN57C98B310)
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Mass histeria ... when fear overides any comon sense. :t
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Has no one at the federal level heard of Photoshop? Do we really need to be spending money for AF1 to do circles around NYC for a photo op?
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Has no one at the federal level heard of Photoshop? Do we really need to be spending money for AF1 to do circles around NYC for a photo op?
:aok
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Mass histeria ... when fear overides any comon sense. :t
QFT
Where was the mass hysteria when the plane crashed into the Hudson. Too quick? I guess you need to work your may up to the proper level of hysteria.
wrongway
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Has no one at the federal level heard of Photoshop? Do we really need to be spending money for AF1 to do circles around NYC for a photo op?
:aok +1
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QFT
Where was the mass hysteria when the plane crashed into the Hudson. Too quick? I guess you need to work your may up to the proper level of hysteria.
wrongway
I'm sure that as the Hudson airliner was on it's way down that some people were freaking out. However, it's a lot easier to forgive an airplane that's ditching in the water because of two dead engines than one on a poorly planned low pass over a city that was attacked in the same way.
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The Government Needs to be Smarter, Why take pictures of a Plane low flying over NYC when NYC isn't even in the Backround of the Pic? Go to 15,000 or something. Eather Aircraft control was on their coffee break or They were shouting into the Mic...the Government needs to think of all possibilities before doing something. Manhattan Still remembers 9/11. Everyone who was alive at that time will. No need for the Government to remind them of it because we already have a day to Remember it.
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I think it was carefully planned and excecuted.
They expected media attention, wanted it to some degree. This was maybe a cunningly vieled statement to show terrorists how little the 9/11 attacks dented the American way of life. Airforce One proud and clear flying above the populace..business as usual for the USA.
Causing mass hysteria shows the opposite, how much the 9/11 attacks rocked the American people. Reason i think along these lines is I dont see how anyone could be stupid enough to pull this stunt without thinking of 9/11. I just think they totaly misjudged what the media and public reaction would be.
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I think it was carefully planned and excecuted.
They expected media attention, wanted it to some degree. This was maybe a cunningly vieled statement to show terrorists how little the 9/11 attacks dented the American way of life. Airforce One proud and clear flying above the populace..business as usual for the USA.
Causing mass hysteria shows the opposite, how much the 9/11 attacks rocked the American people. Reason i think along these lines is I dont see how anyone could be stupid enough to pull this stunt without thinking of 9/11. I just think they totaly misjudged what the media and public reaction would be.
A completely different view and I like it.
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haha, silly americans. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN57C98B310 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN57C98B310)
I guess thats the same type of reaction that an arrival of a dentist would cause on your little island. :D
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haha, silly americans. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN57C98B310 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN57C98B310)
There's nothing silly about what New York City has been through. Nor their reaction to what appears to be history repeating itself.
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haha, silly americans. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN57C98B310 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN57C98B310)
Ok...I guess Britian hasn't had any terrorist attacks and plane hijacks that have wrecked havoc on major cities...how is this 'silly'?
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Terrorism has been in Britain for over one hundred years if you count the IRA nail bombing and ram raiding people up untill the early 90s and sometimes still. Airliners have been targeted in the past and isolated hysteria not uncommon on a smaller scale in Europe in general has broken out in the past.
I think the point being if you see two American fighters and what appears to be the President flying past you should cheer, at least untill it becomes apparent that they are infact hostile. Mass hysteria is a silly thing there is no doubt. Pain and loss is not silly, no one would minimise loss on the scale of 9/11. I dont think thrila is saying it was a good idea to fly past like that, he is saying the scale of panic was silly.
It's a lose - lose argument. If the panic was not realisticly 'a little over the top' then those responsible are idiots for doing it at all.
On the other side of that argument, I think any nation's general populace would act the same way if 9/11 had happened to them. We have no right to judge people who actualy witnessed the twin towers first hand. In some cases civillians would have been left with the same shell shocked feeling as active combat soldiers. Life will never erase those images from their minds. They should not have paniced at a clearly American military and state pressance in the air. They had every right to react that way in reality. It was too predictable to have not been thought about before the 'photo shoot'.
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Terrorism has been in Britain for over one hundred years if you count the IRA nail bombing and ram raiding people up untill the early 90s and sometimes still. Airliners have been targeted in the past and isolated hysteria not uncommon on a smaller scale in Europe in general has broken out in the past.
I think the point being if you see two American fighters and what appears to be the President flying past you should cheer, at least untill it becomes apparent that they are infact hostile. Mass hysteria is a silly thing there is no doubt. Pain and loss is not silly, no one would minimise loss on the scale of 9/11. I dont think thrila is saying it was a good idea to fly past like that, he is saying the scale of panic was silly.
It's a lose - lose argument. If the panic was not realisticly 'a little over the top' then those responsible are idiots for doing it at all.
On the other side of that argument, I think any nation's general populace would act the same way if 9/11 had happened to them. We have no right to judge people who actualy witnessed the twin towers first hand. In some cases civillians would have been left with the same shell shocked feeling as active combat soldiers. Life will never erase those images from their minds. They should not have paniced at a clearly American military and state pressance in the air. They had every right to react that way in reality. It was too predictable to have not been thought about before the 'photo shoot'.
Too true. Indeed when you see two fighters you SHOULD, if you're in your right mind, know you are safe. Now half of Americans probably don't know what a fighter jet is, but, generally speaking. Anyone should be in panic mode, I know I would have been for at least a few moments. If the plane was hijacked the fighters would have been ordered to shoot the plane down well before it got close to NYC. This seems kind of like a publicity stunt if you ask me.
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Terrorism has been in Britain for over one hundred years if you count the IRA nail bombing and ram raiding people up untill the early 90s and sometimes still. Airliners have been targeted in the past and isolated hysteria not uncommon on a smaller scale in Europe in general has broken out in the past.
I think the point being if you see two American fighters and what appears to be the President flying past you should cheer, at least untill it becomes apparent that they are infact hostile. Mass hysteria is a silly thing there is no doubt. Pain and loss is not silly, no one would minimise loss on the scale of 9/11. I dont think thrila is saying it was a good idea to fly past like that, he is saying the scale of panic was silly.
It's a lose - lose argument. If the panic was not realisticly 'a little over the top' then those responsible are idiots for doing it at all.
On the other side of that argument, I think any nation's general populace would act the same way if 9/11 had happened to them. We have no right to judge people who actualy witnessed the twin towers first hand. In some cases civillians would have been left with the same shell shocked feeling as active combat soldiers. Life will never erase those images from their minds. They should not have paniced at a clearly American military and state pressance in the air. They had every right to react that way in reality. It was too predictable to have not been thought about before the 'photo shoot'.
I doubt they recognized it as Air Force One until it's actually close enough to see the markings. Some people probably never got a close enough look to recognize the 747 as AF-1. Most people probably only saw a jumbo jet low over the city with a fighter plane in trail. For all they knew the fighter was about to attack a hijacked aircraft. For those that saw 911 first hand these images would certainly cause panic. There's nothing silly about it. What is silly is for somebody who has not lived through this kind of thing to judge the reactions of those who have.
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In this post 9/11 world I have been told to panic at the drop of a hat, that is why when the ANG flies their C130's at tree top level training around here, I immediately pop a bunch of tranquilizers that I have stashed for just such an occasion.
shamus
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I doubt they recognized it as Air Force One until it's actually close enough to see the markings. Some people probably never got a close enough look to recognize the 747 as AF-1. Most people probably only saw a jumbo jet low over the city with a fighter plane in trail. For all they knew the fighter was about to attack a hijacked aircraft. For those that saw 911 first hand these images would certainly cause panic. There's nothing silly about it. What is silly is for somebody who has not lived through this kind of thing to judge the reactions of those who have.
Cover up IMO or completely idiotic by the government
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Cover up IMO or completely idiotic by the government
I would agree an idiotic undertaking. What exactly would they be covering up though?
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Read again the second point i made, Shifty, if you would. If you want a more simplified answer It was silly to panic but being silly about it was justified considering the people invovled.
Thinking again on the subject, I expect a reasonable ammount of New Yorkers didnt even see it and just heard a rumour spreading from block to block and got on the band wagon. An even higher percentage of NY'ers probably dont even care. This is all just fill-in news to take up time before the next revealing developement in World War III. Or should we call it the Cold War II? I just pray to anything that will listen there is not any kind of Pearl Harbour II in the near future or we are all going to see fighter jets flying through our cities alot more often. Maybe they did it to toughen New York up again.
edit: Shamus :rofl
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If it's justified it's not silly. There's a simple explanation for you.
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Good point although the rule does not work for everything. Sueing a fast food joint because the coffee was too hot and scolded your lips is justified but also very silly. That is besides the point.
On a larger scale many of those who did panic must surely have been just caught in the wave of confusion and terror rather than directly or emotionaly harmed by 9/11. How many people in the panic moved to NY after 9/11 and only ever saw it on the news?
Panic is silly, a soldier who panics is useless. Soldiers have hot metal whizzing past them all day and rarely panic because they are trained to realise that panic is silly. Silly being defined in both these cases as a course of action that does nothing to remedy a situation and often increases the damage.
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Mass histeria ... when fear overides any comon sense. :t
Maybe if you live in the NY/NJ area at the time of the WTC attacks you might have a different perspective. Its not like low flying jets are commonplace around here. And the last time we had low flying large jets flying around they went into buildings.
Now you have a low flying and what looks like to the average Joe on the ground a commercial jet flying around with an F-16 near by.
Its not hard to understand how folks might be just a tad bit jumpy.
Completely irresponsible on whoever decided to do this. both from a PR and financial standpoint.
I'm sure it costs a couple of taxpayer dollars everytime either of these birds takes to the air. And to do so for a photo op?
Havent they ever heard of Photo Shop?
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Terrorism has been in Britain for over one hundred years if you count the IRA nail bombing and ram raiding people up untill the early 90s and sometimes still.
Its been in Ireland for at least that long too
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Yes indeed, in Northern Ireland much more so than in mainland Britain.
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Good point although the rule does not work for everything. Sueing a fast food joint because the coffee was too hot and scolded your lips is justified but also very silly. That is besides the point.
On a larger scale many of those who did panic must surely have been just caught in the wave of confusion and terror rather than directly or emotionaly harmed by 9/11. How many people in the panic moved to NY after 9/11 and only ever saw it on the news?
Panic is silly, a soldier who panics is useless. Soldiers have hot metal whizzing past them all day and rarely panic because they are trained to realise that panic is silly. Silly being defined in both these cases as a course of action that does nothing to remedy a situation and often increases the damage.
I'm not talking about everything. I'm not talking about soldiers and I'm damn sure not talking about hot coffee. I'm talking about a city that saw nearly 3000 of it's citizens die in a matter of minutes less than ten years ago from a suprise attack on a city at peace. Now these same people see a similar situation unfolding before their eyes and some of them panic. Of course some of them are going panic. There's nothing silly about it, it's tragic. I live in Texas and only saw the attacks on television. Had I'd been in NYC yesterday and saw this incident my initial reaction may have been fear as well. For some reason you feel the need to argue the point because a countryman of yours made a bad joke and you're trying to cover his bad taste and ignorance with abstract bulls**t. I'm not buying it.
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(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j285/Vinald/everybody_panic.gif)
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Who's running the show? Is anyone thinking these things through before approval?
(Yes, it's not officially AF1 unless the POTUS is on board. But still... :huh)
Regards,
Sun
It was probably Pres Bush that ordered it.
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I'm not buying it.
I'm not selling anything. If it happened in london I would say the same. Panic in any form is silly, end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.
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I'm not selling anything. If it happened in london I would say the same. Panic in any form is silly, end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.
Quoted for sensibility.
When watermelon hits the fan... keep your eyes on wear it flings and move out the way rather than panicking and waving your arms around like a school girl.
Cool calm and collected is the only way to be in a crisis.
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Quoted for sensibility.
When watermelon hits the fan... keep your eyes on wear it flings and move out the way rather than panicking and waving your arms around like a school girl.
Cool calm and collected is the only way to be in a crisis.
Agree 100%. I tend to stray from "paranoid people" myself.
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Notice the crowd is runing/screaming TOWARD the buildings. Plus it's not like you'll freacking outrun a jet plane anyway, how far can you run for this jet to travel the last mile. People don't think straight when mass histeria spreads. :frown:
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Wonder how much money their little jaunt cost us taxpayers... and which lucky spectator passengers were on the manifest. *rolls eyes*
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It would make sense to run away from where the plane seems to be about to impact. Ground or building.
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haha, silly americans. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN57C98B310 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN57C98B310)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Considering the fact that no one got hurt....
I can't help but laugh my bollocks off at just how completely and utterly retarded this situation is.
How do people qualify for these decision making jobs? Bwahahahahahaha. Bloooddddyyyy hell.
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Nice job being dicks about it y'all. Hey, let's all point and laugh at the people who are scared! :aok
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That's not entirely accurate............. Orders are the same for escorting the President or escorting a hijacked aircraft. From the ground, you don't know the difference.
If I see a low fly airliner WITH 2 F16s nearby ... I'll wouldn't trip out. :lol
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Nice job being dicks about it y'all. Hey, let's all point and laugh at the people who are scared! :aok
:aok Tell em Mom! I'm with ya.
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Nice job being dicks about it y'all. Hey, let's all point and laugh at the people who are scared! :aok
Honestly, what do you expect from a bunch of guys on the internet?
Compassion? Understanding? Unadulterated affection?
No one got hurt, go ahead and laugh.
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:rofl they were taking pictures that were prolly gonna be used for PR, but instead they had a PR disaster :aok good job guys
DOH!
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Nice job being dicks about it y'all. Hey, let's all point and laugh at the people who are scared! :aok
I'm not being a dick, I refuse to live in fear, unlike the majority of this Country. Also, when you see a 747 escorted by two 16's, reality should set in.
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Also, when you see a 747 escorted by two 16's, reality should set in.
Not to be confrontational, but what reality is that? That the fighters are going to shoot down a terrorist controlled airliner above your head? That the airliner is gonna smash into a building above your head? That the airliner is heading towards buildings that you have relatives working or living in?
I doubt it has anything about living in fear, but it is totally a 'oh S*#T, not again!' moment, because at that moment in time, if your walking down the street and see that, you have NO idea what's going to happen.
It was a really REALLY dumb idea to pick that flight path.
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(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/artlowairplanewabc.jpg)
Ok people, move along. There's nothing to see here.
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/CA1WN2ND.jpg)
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Not to be confrontational, but what reality is that? That the fighters are going to shoot down a terrorist controlled airliner above your head? That the airliner is gonna smash into a building above your head? That the airliner is heading towards buildings that you have relatives working or living in?
I doubt it has anything about living in fear, but it is totally a 'oh S*#T, not again!' moment, because at that moment in time, if your walking down the street and see that, you have NO idea what's going to happen.
It was a really REALLY dumb idea to pick that flight path.
There are a lot of "what if's?" in the above quote.
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That's kinda how i meant it to be. You, or I or anyone else without prior knowledge would have no idea what the hell was going on.
So for the people making fun of the people in the video that were running, i mean yeah, maybe you can laugh because you weren't there but, if you were, you really have no idea how you would react. I'm sure some of those men and women were terrified, while others were trying to stay rational and see what unfolds.
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Here's the latest on the Scare Force One boondoggle:
$328,000 photo shoot and we don't even get to see the pictures! :huh
Regards,
Sun
Top Secret $328,000 Photo: NYC Air Force Shot Won't Be Released
White House Says No Need to Release Controversial Image; Review to Come This Week
The White House is keeping a tight grip on photos from last week's botched Air Force One promotional photo op over Lower Manhattan.
At a press briefing Tuesday, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs dodged reporters' questions about last week's photo-op, which cost over $328,000 in taxpayer dollars and frightened a broad swath of lower Manhattan, site of the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center towers.
"I've watched CNN. . . I didn't notice a lack of archival material from that flight," Gibbs cracked, an apparent reference to the prevalence of shaky video shot last week by witnesses on the ground.
Gibbs said the White House anticipates completing a review of the incident this week, but did not answer questions about why it would not release the pictures or when it might do so.
A White House spokesman said this is not a new decision and the plan not to release the photo has remained the same since news of the incident broke last week. ....
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7510844&page=1
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Just one questions:
What was escorting it?
I see a small fighter-like plane, but the quality is to low to identify.
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Just one questions:
What was escorting it?
I see a small fighter-like plane, but the quality is to low to identify.
F-5s. ;)
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If by F-5 you mean F-16 then yes.
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If by F-5 you mean F-16 then yes.
This thread and the media say F-16 numerous times. One fish caught. ;)
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Riiiight...
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Oh, he so got you