Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: MjTalon on May 02, 2009, 11:13:48 AM
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Here's two A5 films for review:
http://www.mediafire.com/?tqyynwjn0ln
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This film is an engagement with a higher and faster F4U-4. The film is oriented towards getting the F4U-4 to slow down long enough and to force a overshoot. Also demonstrates good E management as well as defensive rolls.
http://www.mediafire.com/?0jznz2ujzoz
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This film demonstrates the effectiveness of the Displacement roll. It's a roll that transfers your energy into a climbing invert roll in the direction of the turning bandit to use that energy to "slingshot" yourself into his turn radius.
This maneuver utilizes the 190's fantastic roll rate to maneuver with a better turning aircraft. Practice makes perfect. :aok
Hope you guys enjoy these films for analysis. :salute
If you would like one on one 190A training, feel free to PM me or give me a in game PM, Callsign Blitzin. I'll be in the TA today so you guys can find me there as well. :salute
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I don't get the displacement roll. I think you just got onto his six w/o him seeing ya, I'm not sure why he didn't chop throttle going into a tight split S for a break and WEP once you're off his six.
For the F4U-4 engagement, I think both side made a lot of mistake. Though for A5 you play your card w/o maintaining high speed to keep the turn radius about same as the F4U-4 at that speed. He pretty much had ya if you could aim a tad bit =). The F4U-4 took too long to commit into the fight at first. He kept his E and went into an E mode for a while before he chop throttle and settle in. ^_^ did you really zoom that much ? All I saw was just the gunsight in some of the shooting on the displacement film.
Good fight, fun to see.
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I don't get the displacement roll. I think you just got onto his six w/o him seeing ya, I'm not sure why he didn't chop throttle going into a tight split S for a break and WEP once you're off his six.
For the F4U-4 engagement, I think both side made a lot of mistake. Though for A5 you play your card w/o maintaining high speed to keep the turn radius about same as the F4U-4 at that speed. He pretty much had ya if you could aim a tad bit =). The F4U-4 took too long to commit into the fight at first. He kept his E and went into an E mode for a while before he chop throttle and settle in. ^_^ did you really zoom that much ? All I saw was just the gunsight in some of the shooting on the displacement film.
Good fight, fun to see.
Thanks for your opinions Yenny, always a pleasure :). As for the displacement roll, it was some maneuvering before i popped the film on that's why the film starts with me about 1000yds from his six, we had just finished a merge. As for the zoom, yes i do shoot while zoomed in. :o Gavagai always gets on me about that :lol. And yes i tend to bleed some speed a bit while maneuvering in the A5. I normally try to keep my G meter below 2-3 G's when maneuvering at the most.
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Yea, I never zoom in that much. Maybe just a tad bit to get a clear shot. I'm just suprise it doesn't make you dizzy zooming in that much! Our style of flying is completely different though, In 190, I do take it to tnb but more like OTD, 150 knts or taking it for 400 knts passes =D. I can't play right now =/ so I just watch film and wish I could !
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If you would like one on one 190A training, feel free to PM me or give me a in game PM, Callsign Blitzin. I'll be in the TA today so you guys can find me there as well. :salute
For anyone looking for 190 training I recommend taking him up on this offer. Blitzin is an outstandingly nice guy and I'm sure he would be quite patient and helpful with 190 aspirants of any skill level.
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For anyone looking for 190 training I recommend taking him up on this offer. Blitzin is an outstandingly nice guy and I'm sure he would be quite patient and helpful with 190 aspirants of any skill level.
Danke trotter! :salute
Nice fight today in the DoB scenario. ;)
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Nice films blitzn, just wanted to clairify why this works though. You obviously know how to use the displacement roll; however, your description is a bit off.
A displacement roll doesn't "slingshot yourself into his turn radius," it actually does the exact opposite. Another term for a displacement roll is a lag roll, this gives a clue as to what it's achieving. You are already starting well within your opponent's turn radius and you have two options. Due to the moderately high angle off created by the F4U's turn, you could just high yo-yo to stay within his turn radius but, in this film, one of two things would happen. You could just do a small yo-yo but that will put you too close to the F4U's tail and you can't match his turn radius so it'll set you up for an overshoot. The other possibility is a large yo-yo by pulling your nose up much higher to maintain adequate separation but, if the F4U is smart he'll pull vertical to match you and get you in a vertical scissors.
The best option is what you did, a lag roll. The lag roll actually starts the same as a high yo-yo but you roll AWAY from his turn (he's turning right, you're rolling left). Toward the end of the roll you align your fuselage and drop into a good lag position OUTSIDE of his turn radius and inside his control zone. Check your film here and look straight down at the fight and you'll see you're comfortably outside of his flight path. Because your turn radius is larger it allows you to maintain higher e without the danger of an in-close overshoot.
One other thing, you're absolutely right about the 190's roll rate helping you out here. If you're in a slow rolling plane it'll take longer to get into lag and allow the F4U to possibly gain too much separation or force you too far outside of his flight path. Either case will put you outside of the control zone letting the F4U to reverse and force a flat (or rolling) scissors.
Again, nicely done, just wanted to clairify the details.
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Nice fight today in the DoB scenario. ;)
Oh my. I am a wreck in the 38, as can testify anyone who saw my strafe attempt turned stylstic auger on the SDK at the end of the frame. Just hope I put up an entertaining fight for you 190 folks, I know I had fun at least.
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Nice films blitzn, just wanted to clairify why this works though. You obviously know how to use the displacement roll; however, your description is a bit off.
A displacement roll doesn't "slingshot yourself into his turn radius," it actually does the exact opposite. Another term for a displacement roll is a lag roll, this gives a clue as to what it's achieving. You are already starting well within your opponent's turn radius and you have two options. Due to the moderately high angle off created by the F4U's turn, you could just high yo-yo to stay within his turn radius but, in this film, one of two things would happen. You could just do a small yo-yo but that will put you too close to the F4U's tail and you can't match his turn radius so it'll set you up for an overshoot. The other possibility is a large yo-yo by pulling your nose up much higher to maintain adequate separation but, if the F4U is smart he'll pull vertical to match you and get you in a vertical scissors.
The best option is what you did, a lag roll. The lag roll actually starts the same as a high yo-yo but you roll AWAY from his turn (he's turning right, you're rolling left). Toward the end of the roll you align your fuselage and drop into a good lag position OUTSIDE of his turn radius and inside his control zone. Check your film here and look straight down at the fight and you'll see you're comfortably outside of his flight path. Because your turn radius is larger it allows you to maintain higher e without the danger of an in-close overshoot.
One other thing, you're absolutely right about the 190's roll rate helping you out here. If you're in a slow rolling plane it'll take longer to get into lag and allow the F4U to possibly gain too much separation or force you too far outside of his flight path. Either case will put you outside of the control zone letting the F4U to reverse and force a flat (or rolling) scissors.
Again, nicely done, just wanted to clairify the details.
Thanks for clarifying my memory Mace, just recently re subbed after a month in a half vacation :). And danke sir, I shall be filming my 190 fights as well as maneuvers from now on. :salute
Oh my. I am a wreck in the 38, as can testify anyone who saw my strafe attempt turned stylstic auger on the SDK at the end of the frame. Just hope I put up an entertaining fight for you 190 folks, I know I had fun at least.
Hehe, it was fun indeed, i kept lagging over V105 so I'm sure alot of P38s saw me warping to hell :uhoh.
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That was some of the worst F4U flying that I've seen outside of the Training Arena. Against the F4U-4, with an altitude (read that E) advantage, the 190A-5 is simply dog meat. Hell, it's dog meat Go-E and Co-Alt. No 190 has anything for an F4U-4, assuming equal pilots.
The F4U-4 in the film... No clue on tactics, none on E management, no ACM knowledge, no use of throttle (except keeping it firewalled), no idea of flap use, horrific gunnery and the inability to keep sight of the enemy. All of that and he damn near got ya Blitzin!
Reminds me of an old maxim; "you can park a mule in the garage, but that don't make it a Chevrolet." Translated: you can have the best fighter in the game, but if you lack basic skills, it does you little good.
My regards,
Widewing
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Looks like you should do some F4U training films next. :rofl
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That was some of the worst F4U flying that I've seen outside of the Training Arena. Against the F4U-4, with an altitude (read that E) advantage, the 190A-5 is simply dog meat. Hell, it's dog meat Go-E and Co-Alt. No 190 has anything for an F4U-4, assuming equal pilots.
The F4U-4 in the film... No clue on tactics, none on E management, no ACM knowledge, no use of throttle (except keeping it firewalled), no idea of flap use, horrific gunnery and the inability to keep sight of the enemy. All of that and he damn near got ya Blitzin!
Reminds me of an old maxim; "you can park a mule in the garage, but that don't make it a Chevrolet." Translated: you can have the best fighter in the game, but if you lack basic skills, it does you little good.
My regards,
Widewing
:lol Yes you are correct WW, it was some very horrible flying on his part and I had got comfortable and almost got shot down because of it. I think he was timid and even the worst pilot can pull a good shot with the Corsair's outstanding over the nose view.
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Looks like you should do some F4U training films next. :rofl
All of the things I described above apply to any aircraft.
That said, there is talk about doing an F4U clinic in the near future....
My regards,
Widewing
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Not to nit-pick, but after watching the F4U film myself I have to say that... well... you got lucky. No way you should have made it through that.
Sorry.
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The point is not should or could really, it's 'did'.
If you are desperate and probably going to die anyhow, knowing things that might work if the enemy slips up is still usefull. Unless you prefer to just lay down and die it's always worth assuming the worst of your enemy and trying something...anything.
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Maybe I'm missing something?
That sideways thing at about 4:30 where he says "I'm dead"- is that a black-out, or pilot wound maybe?
The beginning part of the fight looks good, it's just that last part that almost looks like tossing in the towel until the F4U messes up and gets in a bad position... It looks less like "forcing the F4U to overshoot", and more like "I'm lucky the F4U overshot me". I felt like he had an opportunity to force some pressure on the F4U right around the time he cheered, by making a turn into him, but he didn't take it...
I dunno...
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Oh sure MTN, I was just pointing out that even the best players mess up sometimes. Considering that the F4u in the clip is not flying much different to the average MA casual gamer, or any of us after too many beers, personaly i find a few of the responses here a little unfair on the OP and the F4u driver. What works is worth sharing, even if it only works due to lack of enemy skill.
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where it appears that i threw in the towel i infact DID black out from pulling too many G's while evading the Corsair.
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I believe that *anything* can with a little luck and skill hope to generate at least *1* shot on anything else most of the time.
Thus gunnery is once again to be revealed the core of it all...
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where it appears that i threw in the towel i infact DID black out from pulling too many G's while evading the Corsair.
Ahh, OK. I don't think I've seen a black out on film...
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What works is worth sharing, even if it only works due to lack of enemy skill.
Well, they can share it, but if it is contrary to fundamental tactics, a trainer is likely to chime in on it.
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Well, they can share it, but if it is contrary to fundamental tactics, a trainer is likely to chime in on it.
nah......I would say, you can guarantee a Trainer will chime in on it to provide any corrections that might need presenting......