Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Clone155 on May 10, 2009, 01:08:36 AM

Title: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Clone155 on May 10, 2009, 01:08:36 AM
MODEL He-162
 CREW 1
 ENGINE 1 x BMW 003A-1 turbo-jet, 7.84kN
 WEIGHTS
    Take-off weight 2695 kg 5941 lb
    Empty weight 2050 kg 4520 lb
 DIMENSIONS
    Wingspan 7.20 m 23 ft 7 in
    Length 9.05 m 29 ft 8 in
    Height 2.55 m 8 ft 4 in
    Wing area 11.20 m2 120.56 sq ft
 PERFORMANCE
    Ceiling 12040 m 39500 ft
 ARMAMENT 2 x 20mm machine-guns 151/120 cannons


Popularly known as the '"Volksjager" (People's Fighter) but best remembered by the name Salamander, the He 162 turbojet-powered single-seat fighter was designed to employ as little strategic material as possible, which by 1944 was in short supply. Design work on the fighter started on 23 September 1944 and the first prototype flew on 6 December 1944. On the second flight the leading edge of the wing collapsed and the prototype broke up in the air. This did not seriously hinder the development programme and, after modifications were made to the wings, the He 162 went into large-scale production in widely dispersed assembly plants, many underground. However only 116 He 162A had been completed by Germany's capitulation and few were operational.

source by
http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/he-162.php

Why not? Heck, if we have other rare planes, why not have a cool one like this? It looks so sexy!

I even hear rumors that it was stealth capable  :O

Maybe a good convention plane?

Pictures to follow...
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Clone155 on May 10, 2009, 01:16:30 AM
According to Wikipedia, this thing could go 553mph at sea level  :O

(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff116/clone155/he-162-s.gif)

(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff116/clone155/he162tamiyacw_2.jpg)

(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff116/clone155/He_162_flying.jpg)

(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff116/clone155/he-162-sketch.gif)

More photos at http://www.world-war-2-planes.com/he-162.html
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Saxman on May 10, 2009, 01:33:32 AM
NO MORE JETS!!!

 :furious :furious :furious
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Xasthur on May 10, 2009, 02:29:13 AM
.....and few were operational.


And there is your answer.

Insufficient for inclusion.

Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: moot on May 10, 2009, 02:41:34 AM
NO MORE JETS!!!

 :furious :furious :furious
Numbarwane.. Warp 5 full ahead.. Engage.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Clone155 on May 10, 2009, 02:50:33 AM

And there is your answer.

Insufficient for inclusion.



What about the Wirblewind?
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Karnak on May 10, 2009, 03:09:43 AM
What about the Wirblewind?
Many more were operational than of the He162.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Ruah on May 10, 2009, 03:59:47 AM
NO MORE JETS!!!

 :furious :furious :furious

+1

srsly, if people want to fly jets, they should get a different game, there are far too many production airplanes (especially from the Japanese and Soviets  :pray) as well as a few models and variations of already existing planes that actually had an impact, were produced in numbers, and don't require massive perk points to fly.   I realize these jets are cool, and I would love to see them too - but only after the other planes are introduced.  This includes some serious updates for some of the planes that are in game as it is. . . 
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Enker on May 10, 2009, 07:09:07 PM
Only if the engines catch on fire as if they were made of hairspray.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Larry on May 10, 2009, 07:14:01 PM
Iv always wondered what the big arrow on the nose was for. Does anyone know?
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Motherland on May 10, 2009, 07:29:09 PM
According to Adolf Galland:
"This project had one advantage: It was technically quite impossible to hang a bomb beneath the tiny aircraft and to declare it a Blitz bomber. Compared with the Me 262, the He 162 meant a considerable step backward in every way".

Apparently the first time it was demonstrated the test pilot pulled into a loop and the He 162 disintegrated (it was made of wood).

I even hear rumors that it was stealth capable  :O
Drugs are bad, mmmkay?


Could you imagine trying to check your 6 in that thing? :lol
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: B4Buster on May 10, 2009, 07:29:44 PM
Iv always wondered what the big arrow on the nose was for. Does anyone know?

That thing's so smurfy, probably to distinguish its front from its rear
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Saxman on May 10, 2009, 07:41:37 PM
Iv always wondered what the big arrow on the nose was for. Does anyone know?

"This end up?"
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: morfiend on May 10, 2009, 08:02:02 PM
Iv always wondered what the big arrow on the nose was for. Does anyone know?


 It showed the untrained pilots the direction they were going to go!!! :D
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: AWwrgwy on May 11, 2009, 12:30:17 AM
NO MORE JETS!!!

 :furious :furious :furious


(http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/415/jetsareforkids.jpg)

There ya go.


wrongway
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: sethipus on May 11, 2009, 12:40:58 AM
Could you imagine trying to check your 6 in that thing? :lol
At its speed, why would you need to?   :rock
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: frank3 on May 11, 2009, 05:17:17 AM
Would be a pain bailing out, with the engine running  :huh
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Larry on May 11, 2009, 06:01:54 AM
Would be a pain bailing out, with the engine running  :huh

If I'm not mistaken it was one of the first planes that ever had an ejection seat.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: frank3 on May 11, 2009, 06:22:59 AM
Pretty clever! Otherwise you'd be sucked in that big hole behind you straight away  :D
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: waystin2 on May 11, 2009, 10:21:03 AM
Ugh no.  Props before jets.  :aok  Nuff said.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Clone155 on May 11, 2009, 01:27:22 PM
Would be a pain bailing out, with the engine running  :huh
:lol
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: morfiend on May 11, 2009, 05:23:29 PM
Iv always wondered what the big arrow on the nose was for. Does anyone know?



  Larry,the red arrow was a JG1 insignia,JG1 was tasked with proving the 162 as an operational A/C in may of 45 at or around Leck.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: trigger2 on May 12, 2009, 05:53:04 PM
Why not? Heck, if we have other rare planes, why not have a cool one like this? It looks so sexy!

I even hear rumors that it was stealth capable  :O

Well, the mossy was stealth in WWII, why do they still pop on dar? Might see an increase of mossy flights if they didn't. ;) Or hell, why not the HO 229 Flying Wing, it didn't see combat, but it was stealth capable AND was designed to be long range. :D
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: frank3 on May 13, 2009, 04:58:06 AM
Well, the mossy was stealth in WWII, why do they still pop on dar? Might see an increase of mossy flights if they didn't. ;) Or hell, why not the HO 229 Flying Wing, it didn't see combat, but it was stealth capable AND was designed to be long range. :D

Do you have any proof for that? Just because they were partially made of wood, they wouldn't show up on the radar?
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Larry on May 13, 2009, 05:58:08 AM
There are reports that because there was less metal in the mossi that its radar blimp was smaller.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on May 13, 2009, 05:59:08 AM
They showed up on radar, problem was by the time the germans got the heads up, engines hot and altitude, the mossies were gone...long gone..WAY gone.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Ruah on May 13, 2009, 06:31:38 AM
There are reports that because there was less metal in the mossi that its radar blimp was smaller.

radar don't work like that. . .
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Larry on May 13, 2009, 07:02:17 AM
radar don't work like that. . .


Then please tell me how radar 'work'?
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: phatzo on May 13, 2009, 09:04:37 PM
from what I understand the mosquito gave a fairly large signiture on the radar but I can't qualify that statement right now because I'm busy looking busy at work.
 :t
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Pannono on May 13, 2009, 09:35:35 PM
Would be a pain bailing out, with the engine running  :huh
Hehe literally
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: l0newolf on June 21, 2009, 11:32:55 PM
GIVE.ME.A.DECENT.JET.DESTROYE R.FIRST! :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious :furious
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: moot on June 22, 2009, 12:53:13 AM
What makes a jet destroyer decent?
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Larry on June 22, 2009, 01:00:06 AM
LOL how did I know he was the one that bumped this old thread.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: Karnak on June 22, 2009, 02:41:25 AM
They showed up on radar, problem was by the time the germans got the heads up, engines hot and altitude, the mossies were gone...long gone..WAY gone.
This is basically correct.  Detecting and effecting an intercept are two very different things.

There were no WWII aircraft that were "stealth" capable.  To the best of my knowledge, the first "stealth" capable aircraft was the F-117. 


A note on a myth that annoys me, the Ho229 most certainly was not "stealth" capable.  Being a flying wing in no way makes an aircraft difficult to detect with radar.  The B-2 is made of special materials and has very special shaping to achieve its radar aborbing qualities.  The Ho229 had none of those things.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: moot on June 22, 2009, 04:41:20 AM
Karnak - Seen this? http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,265444.msg3333378.html#msg3333378
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/hitler-s-stealth-fighter-3942/Overview
NEXT PRIMETIME AIRING  SUN JUN 28 9P

Quote from: thehortenman
I just happend to be the lead on the HO 229 project at Northrop Grumman. I am one of those so called "Experts"... I have been building Stealth Prototypes and Models for 29 years now. My first project was Tacit Blue then the B-2 and the list goes on... I, and a group of other Engineers at Nothrop Grumman, Got a chance to look closely and test the skin of the real HO 229 at the Garber in Md. and it does contain a significant amount of carbon between all the outer skin layers. Also the historian, David Myhra discussed these issues with the Hortens in Argentina and they did know about the shielding/absorbing qualitys of carbon, I.E. (German Submarine parascopes).
 I realize that many who dont know or understand the actual phenomenology behind Stealth and what makes it work may have their doubts but let me assure you, We do. We went to great lengths to recreate all aspects of the HO 229 to get real data. We did our homework. The finished model will be set up in the air museam in San Diego California on June 23 2009. It was fun to build it and I cant wait to build the next Model "America Bomber" With a wing span of 192' . Ya baby !

                               Tim
Quote from: thehortenman
Hey guys,
 It doesnt compare with "modern" stealth as stated by a previous post but, for its day, it was a masterpiece. Their shot in the dark carbon dust between the layers of skin panels is there for one reason. To attempt to reduce the radar signature of the aircraft. And I wish that I could reveal what the outcome of the R.C.S. testing was, but I made a promise to the Director, Mike Jorgenson, not to reveal the results. We did give it a long major series of spins at diferent angles and from all the other testing I have seen, Many years and programs, It just...... Man, I wish I could tell you now. My jaw was on the floor. We all wanted to have the oppertunity to "tweek" model and do more "modern" treatments to the target but no time and no money. But let me say this, with some easy minor changes and treatments, modern carbon fiber for added strength, updated engines, this plane would be used today. Period. Also the Hortens figured out the secret of a stable non fly by wire flying wing. That was to put the C.G. of the aircraft more forward and the Engine exaust on top of the aft deck... It creates a more stable effect for flight then hanging the engines and exaust aft at the trailing edge... I.E. Jack Northrop's early approch.
    I saw the final cut of the documentary. It doesnt repeat seens like alot of other shows do.... let's put it this way, it holds you to the screen.

                        Thanks for the interest. Talk soon,                Tim
Quote from: thehortenman
The facts are that the Horten brothers did use carbon in the skins to help reduce its radar return.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 22, 2009, 08:27:22 PM
Karnak - Seen this? http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,265444.msg3333378.html#msg3333378
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/hitler-s-stealth-fighter-3942/Overview
NEXT PRIMETIME AIRING  SUN JUN 28 9P


Hopefully it will be on Hulu eventually.

I think the objection with the WWII "stealth" argument is the aircraft in question were not designed with the intent of "stealth".  Rather they were designed due to the necessities of the times, lack of raw materials, and may, or may not, have also benefited by being somewhat more radar opaque.

So it's not so much, "let's make a plane out of wood so radar can't see it as well" as it is, "hey, this wooden plane doesn't show up on radar as well."

Early Russian fighters were partly constructed of wood.  LA5's, Yak9's. etc.  No one seems to claim them as being "stealthy".


wrongway
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: moot on June 23, 2009, 02:52:42 AM
It's definitely not clear cut either way IMO.  One of the two Hortens didn't speak up about it being intentional till a decade later or so.
Title: Re: I like salamanders, don't you?
Post by: FYB on June 23, 2009, 01:51:21 PM
At least we know if you're on fire and you bail, you'll die instantly...  :rolleyes: