Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 4deck on May 10, 2009, 04:19:41 AM
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Just Curious.
Had a debate while dueling someone, and the story goes like this.
My side of the view. We chose planes, and called out fuel, and alt of merge. Upon merge, icon range, the guy is on the deck, with a different loadout of fuel. Anyway, I got shot down, and I figure the guys gonna auger, and well go again. No, dood still stays around, and we merge sort of thing, and this goes on for a few rounds. I die, I just auger and remerge. Blah Blah Blah, We BS on Vox, and one merge were BSing so much that we just flew by each other, still debating nothing I guess.
He's side is that were just gonna wind up on the deck and turn fight anyway.
Either way Great Fights but heres the Rub.
Dueling to me is 2 of the same Planes, Cold Merge. Decide on alt Merge, and then go at it. When One is dead the other augers, and go again. Or Did I miss something somewhere? And same fuel would be good too. IMHO :rolleyes:
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Unless you guys are using 1/4 of gas there should be no reason to auger when one dies. It actually can save time to since you both don't have to fly to some midpoint.
Rules for a duel? I guess whatever you decide on b4 you get up. Duels using same plane type generally bring out pilot differences.
Different plane types bring out both pilot and plane differences but it's sometimes hard to judge which difference won/lost the fight.
Hope this helps
Ren
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I bail after each duel. I do it because I would have less fuel and ammo thus making me lighter and slightly more maneuverable.
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Good form to bail after each duel. Kind of one of those things where the person who doesnt bail after winning gets a big question mark cast on him/her. Speaking of question marks, I'm not really sure what your question is floats. Sounds like you pwned a noob in the DA, and said noob disregarded the unspoken fuel rules. As long as you both had fun, does not seem like an issue.
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I normally fly duels, training or anything else with the same fuel I carry in the MA. Win or lose I practice with what I fly.
So, if you come up with 1/4 tank and Im using a 1/2 (w/dt's)-3/4 tank and you die. You still come up lighter than I am :)
Ren
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Just as an aside, if that guy was on the deck and below the agreed upon merge altitude, you would have a considerable advantage over him.
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Good form to bail after each duel. Kind of one of those things where the person who doesnt bail after winning gets a big question mark cast on him/her. Speaking of question marks, I'm not really sure what your question is floats. Sounds like you pwned a noob in the DA, and said noob disregarded the unspoken fuel rules. As long as you both had fun, does not seem like an issue.
No guy was definitly not a newb. FIghts lasted a bit, and it was about even. Not that im a great stick or anything. I was just curious what people think standard rules are. Never came across someone who didnt bail. Basically I think it in bad taste not too. I mean you up, and someone is right there. Even if they back off and then go at it, seems like a disadvatage for the lifter there. Of course we were in the canyon area, so the deck was at the top of the lip. You can alwas fall into the canyon, for some speed. I definitly need to work on my approach from above methods. The fuel thingy bothers me, because Im judging a planes characteristic on how my plane is handling. Either way, was some good fights. At the end of the day, that is what matters.
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Depends on how "Serious" the Duel is. If it's casual I could see not reuppin'. If it's "formal" then a fresh plane is needed.
Are you sure they didn't START out the same alt as you, and upon seeing your dot dive down to the deck?
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I had a guy that challenged me to a duel. My Ki-84 vs his Spit 9. We get there and agree on alt and no HOs. We get into Icon range and he's at 10k while im at 3. After he dives down I see he's in a Spit 16. After he makes 5 or 6 passes with no luck he climbed even higher. He just wouldn't engage, but insisted on BnZing me since my plane turned better than the Spit. He called the challenge....why not fight.
Dueling for me is this:
Same plane
Same fuel
same loadout
Same alt
no HOs
I bail after every fight just so I know that the next fight will be just as "fair" as the rest
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Depends on how "Serious" the Duel is. If it's casual I could see not reuppin'. If it's "formal" then a fresh plane is needed.
Are you sure they didn't START out the same alt as you, and upon seeing your dot dive down to the deck?
Oh yeah he chose not to climb from launch, we had discussions about it ( me basically going wtf are you doing ), he didnt give a crap about alt, and chose to remain below. Just waiting for me to screw up. Happened a few times must admit. Oh well off to SEC.
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When we finns are dueling, winner augers after fight and both are taking new plane so the fuel/ammo load is equal. Usually we are doing free merge, approaching co-alt and when u see opponents icon, you are free to maneuver (but no Ho!)
It is important to deal these things before takeoff because of variation of the rules.
Edit. However if you and your opponent have discussed about rules and he doesnt care, that guy is totally idiot.
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Dueling for me is this:
Same plane..... don't care. 2 historically correct planes is more fun anyway.
Same fuel......... Your a fool if you take to much in the DA
same loadout.........don't care
Same alt........This I'd like to have as close to even as possible unless plane set says otherwise. Sometimes fighting over the water makes more sense like at those lower bases. Even though it says you start at one alt the ground is not.
no HOs....... NONE, Don't do it. Always try for for the guys six. It's ok to take angle shots and even when he's at top of loop going up or otw down IMO. Hammer heads are good too. As long as it's not a real ho I don't care.
I never auger after winning a fight. Come back out and fight again. I tell my opponent the same.
2 vs 2 and we kill enemy then me and team mate fight. First one to die wins.
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Why not just pick a 'veto' plane list and pick a low, mid or high alt merge.
I don't always end up on the deck, I try not to at least. I do however notice that when the going gets tough people tend to dive to the deck.
If I'm in a ki84 that's a good thing to try, but otherwise most the planes I fly can dive and gain...
I get em but am mad that I blew all the E :( Thus the climb back up to mid or low-mid alt begins,..
Haven't had many good battles lately though. It's either try to climb up to the high p51's and 190s or ...welll that's all it has been lately.
Whatever happened to the mid point battles between two bases...sigh.
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Generally Accepted Standard Dueling Rules:
The fuel will be 25% unless otherwise stated for a particular contestant.
If someone loses a wing, tail, engine, or catches fire, the round is over.
Only two aircraft to a duel.
Only two pilots at a time.
The winner of a round has the choice of the next plane set.
Both contestants must get a new plane before the next round.
The duel winner will be first three out of five rounds.
Rounds must start Co-Alt and Co-E before the initial merge. This means not going above the agreed altitude before the initial merge in order to gain more E then your opponent, you may dive under your opponent once in icon range.
No Head-On shots on the initial merge.
Collisions: No fight, both re-plane.
If you get more then 2.5K from your opponent while your plane’s nose is pointed away from him, you forfeit that round. If both contestants are nose off, that round is void. Altitude counts as distance.
Any modifications of the these rules must be noted in text upon take-off of the first round, and both contestants must agree in text before the initial merge of the first round. This is to include any fuel load, ammo load or dissimilar aircraft.
My regards,
Widewing
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Generally Accepted Standard Dueling Rules:
The fuel will be 25% unless otherwise stated for a particular contestant.
If someone loses a wing, tail, engine, or catches fire, the round is over.
Only two aircraft to a duel.
Only two pilots at a time.
The winner of a round has the choice of the next plane set.
Both contestants must get a new plane before the next round.
The duel winner will be first three out of five rounds.
Rounds must start Co-Alt and Co-E before the initial merge. This means not going above the agreed altitude before the initial merge in order to gain more E then your opponent, you may dive under your opponent once in icon range.
No Head-On shots on the initial merge.
Collisions: No fight, both re-plane.
If you get more then 2.5K from your opponent while your plane’s nose is pointed away from him, you forfeit that round. If both contestants are nose off, that round is void. Altitude counts as distance.
Any modifications of the these rules must be noted in text upon take-off of the first round, and both contestants must agree in text before the initial merge of the first round. This is to include any fuel load, ammo load or dissimilar aircraft.
My regards,
Widewing
Widewing totally nailed it. Those are the rules.
The initial engagment starts at DOT RANGE. When you get to dot range you should be free to begin maneuvering.....go high go low or some other wierd lead turn.
However there are the duals where a close head on pass is stipulated before any maneuvering is done.
Be sure to specify at the start wheather you will start at DOT RANGE or perform a close head on merge.
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I had a guy that challenged me to a duel. My Ki-84 vs his Spit 9. We get there and agree on alt and no HOs. We get into Icon range and he's at 10k while im at 3. After he dives down I see he's in a Spit 16. After he makes 5 or 6 passes with no luck he climbed even higher. He just wouldn't engage, but insisted on BnZing me since my plane turned better than the Spit. He called the challenge....why not fight.
Dueling for me is this:
Same plane
Same fuel
same loadout
Same alt
no HOs
I bail after every fight just so I know that the next fight will be just as "fair" as the rest
:aok
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My Ki-84 vs his Spit 9. We get He just wouldn't engage, but insisted on BnZing me since my plane turned better than the Spit.
I bail after every fight just so I know that the next fight will be just as "fair" as the rest
Thats odd. I always thought the spits turned better than the Ki-84.. and I thought for sure the 9's turned way better than the 16. Going by this chart I'm way off.
http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=ki84&p2=spit9&p3=spit16
Anyway, I see no reason to make the guy who won the fight auger for a new plane. I mean, how much difference can it make? A few pounds just can not make much IMO and seems silly and knit-picky to me.
I'd be out.
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Thats odd. I always thought the spits turned better than the Ki-84.. and I thought for sure the 9's turned way better than the 16. Going by this chart I'm way off.
http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=ki84&p2=spit9&p3=spit16
Anyway, I see no reason to make the guy who won the fight auger for a new plane. I mean, how much difference can it make? A few pounds just can not make much IMO and seems silly and knit-picky to me.
I'd be out.
spit 9 could easily out run a ki84; So someone wanted to fight, and died.
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Dueling is for suckers. Any of these guys told you about running out your ammo to gain a weight advantage? And there's other tricks they would tell you about either on these boards. ;)
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Dueling is for suckers. Any of these guys told you about running out your ammo to gain a weight advantage? And there's other tricks they would tell you about either on these boards. ;)
Go on...
I want to hear about these other "tricks".
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Dueling is for suckers. Any of these guys told you about running out your ammo to gain a weight advantage? And there's other tricks they would tell you about either on these boards. ;)
All of that is seriously overblown, yes you can gain a minuscule edge but its mostly in your mind. Duel any of the multiple loadout planes (jug, pony, 190, 38 come to mind) and you'll see that the lighter gun package has a very minimal effect.
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Sometimes I think ord and DTs seem to have little affect other than mental.
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just auger in only fair way to do it :aok