Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: slyguy on May 13, 2009, 08:19:16 PM
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Okay let me preface this by saying that I've been flying WWII birds online for a decade and understand the basics as far as E, speed, plane types, their attributes, etc. so I'm not exactly a noob. I've been off for three years and after a month I just can't get back to where I was. In fact nowhere close. I was further along when I was brand new to the game. It's hard to explain this, but every fight I get into my opponent tracks me with his nose indefinitely through turn fights in basically in ride. I never saw this before I left. Whatever my radius is, his is always twice as tight. I see the tail going away then when I get 1/4 way through my turn this magic kite is already nose up on me as if it spun out and went the other direction like in police chases. My stick simply will not do this in any plane under any circumstances. I was in a 109G-2 and a A-5 just turned circles around me and that's when I came here :furious.
Stall limiter is off. I fly all 109 variants and they all do the same thing. G-2 for me turns no better than K-4 or G-14. Same same same. Opponent's nose always immediately facing me no matter what. And it's a variety of planes, not just spitty and such. For a long time I thought it was just me, shaking rust off and all that... which I wish it was because I can fix me. I hope it still is. Do pedals make that big of a difference? Because my twisty stick goes through the whole rudder spectrum. I have no clue anymore.
I just want to get back to where I was because I'm about to give up. It wasn't this hard years ago having none experience with Aces High models. But now. Man, something is just missing.
Please help before I turn into a basket case. Or if I'm already there help me out of it :lol
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if you see me just ask, happy to help. Run a .f snaphook from text buffer
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Since you say stall limiter is off, I'd double-check your calibration. First in Windows and then in-game. Make sure your indicators show full throw of the stick in each axis and stays centered while at rest. Also, make sure you don't have any large damping and/or scaling set in the advanced settings in-game, as this could make your stick mushy and less responsive.
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lEarn to use angles and not rely on flat turning, learn correct throttle/flap usage then hope you can aim a tater kthx!
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Sounds like you THOUGHT you use to be better, there are very good players on now. Like said before me, try using the verticle instead of a flat turn, also are you using your rudder when turning?
This game is impossible to master unless you do dweeby things like picking.
Practice in the DA everyone has the same problem you do dont feel bad, I do too. When i say DA i mean go with someone good not fighting the tweens <S>.
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If your turning in horizontal circles, then there dropping flaps on you and you really need start using vertical maneuvers in the 109's never fly it in flat turns. But it sounds like there really dropping flaps on you...... :salute
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I know exactly how you feel. I more or less quit flying over the past few months. I guess I'm still averaging an hour a day or something but a good part of that is in GV's. I can't kill anyone anymore.
I log on, get killed a few times, log off. Log on a few days later, get killed, log off. Log on the next night, get a kill, log off.
I used to be close to 2 K/S and always over 3 K/D in any situation. Now I'm lucky to be 1 K/S and somewhere over 1 K/D.
Not playing really builds rust fast and the faster it builds the less I play. I've actually been thinking about cancelling my account for the first time in 13 years.
I also find while I'm playing I'm bored. My minds not in it and after each death I can point to my mistakes but I just don't seem to really care anymore. I can hardly stand flying out to the fight. That's no way to go out and win in the arena.
I hope you get it worked out if you want to play but I think you're going to have to play consistantly to shake it off and keep your head in the game.
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Try spending a 1/2 hour in the TA or DA before going to the MA. Just get up and get some turns going and begin getting the feel for your ride. When things begin to feel good then go over to the MA. In RL, before an engagement, fighter pilots pull G's to get used to what they are gonna have to be doing in the fights. It's no different in here (minus the G's of course). :)
Taking off into fights from the git-go doesn't give you a chance to settle into your ride.
Hope this helps.
Ren
Aces High Training Corps
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I appreciate the remedial suggestions on the 109 but I am beyond those ya big sillies :salute
The first two responses inspired me to read a little more on stick configuration and I changed my scaling. There appears to be an improvement not only in turning and going into the vertical but overall stability, which I believe is the predicate here.
BaldEagl it is true if you don't use it you lose it. My K/D was great before I left. My SA and closure rate was really the only thing I had to get used to again in a major way. But spending hours and hours in the DA hasn't helped the plane maneuver better. It turns as crappy in hour 1 as hour 10. I'm excited to put the new scaling to the test in a meaningful way tomorrow.
And I'm aware that some of the pilots are better now than when I was here. In fact they are better than the pilots in the real war because they weren't in these planes for 10 years. But the planes are the same. I think.
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slowing down helps - especially in conjunction with using the vertical
flaps help
using the rudder helps
trim helps
what everyone else says
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slowing down helps - especially in conjunction with using the vertical
flaps help
using the rudder helps
trim helps
what everyone else says
That wasn't the problem. I know to do all of the above :aok
Thanks for the responses all. Had a great night in the MA with the new scaling and I believe I have solved the problem. If anyone else is having problems I suggest Mrdr's scaling settings. I'll try to find the thread again that had it in there. It seemed to get the job done getting my stick right. I'm using the Logitech 3D Pro just for further detail.
<<<S>>> all thanks again!
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Not meaning to bump the thread but wanted to include the link to the scaling settings. They are AkAk's settings provided by Murder here http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/ (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/)
Just paying the help forward :salute
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What helped me was going into the TA and practicing turning the different airplanes right at the stall limit. I would just take a Hellcat, did it with many different types but as an example, and turn it 30 times in a row, using flaps/not using them, using the vertical, letting out the wheels, and most of all using my different views as I did it.
Round and round and round. Easing off and on the gas, taking snap shots. I even did it with IL2s. I'd go into the arena and just practice turns.
And you find out a few things, at least I did. That trim is very important, "I dont like combat trim when turn fighting", and slight reverse rudder helps keep your nose up. And not that I became a great turn fighter but it did help me a lot. My biggest problem was keeping awareness while turning and using my views correctly.
I recommend doing that, and also spending a tour in pure turn fighters to get your skills and confidence levels up. I'd also recommend getting with a trainer because thats where I got that turn drill from.
When I first starting flying fighters I never even looked at my score for 4 months. Forget score. Your best fights just might be ones you lose.
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Yeah I don't fly for pilot score. My group flies for base take score, currently #1 in the game in that area :aok Unfortunately this objective calls for extremely dangerous mission types that aren't conducive to flying home all too often.
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Stall limiter off?
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Don't turn harder, turn smarter.
Place your lift vector in front of the bandit and pull.
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Don't turn harder, turn smarter.
Place your lift vector in front of the bandit and pull.
Why is it just because I said I have a problem with my plane responding to turns everyone assumes ALL I do is flat turn and have no idea what I am doing? :rofl It was a scaling and stability issue with my stick. Problem solved. I am way beyond the entry level fundamentals.
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ok, now I GOTA know...
What is your AH CPID in game? (slyguy)
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I appreciate the remedial suggestions on the 109 but I am beyond those ya big sillies :salute
...snip...
Will due respect. I mean no insutls here and am only posting what I think about the situation.
If its not your stick..not your stick settings...not your plane....and not your fist...then there is only one thing left.........Your tactics...or "YOU". You have eleminated everything else.
Either one or all of these things are happening to you.
1. You are being out yoyo'ed on the horizontal.
2. You are being out climbed/stall turned on the verticle
3. You are being out rolling scissored.
4. or all of these at once.
It's all a matter of...."the angle of the dangle"
The answer isnt anything "complicated". The solution to your problem lies in the basics.... throttle controll and angles. Ace drivers can make an almost invisible low or high yoyo. When engaged in a turn fight trying to win angles on the horizontal line one can make very shallow to slight low or high yoyo's and cut you off in 1 or 2 turns. These yoyo's are hard to detect. The two circles are being manipulated on an axis. The bandit tilts his circle off angle 5 or 10 degrees. This makes his circle oblique ( the ends of the oval are the yoyo's, the sides are where the gun solutions are). The defender stays in a flat or more circular circle. The attacker can use throttle control to change the shape of the oblique circle and get repeaded shots on the defender as he yoyo's up and down across your rounder circle. From the defenders perspective this looks like an attacker who is sliding from high to low..it often looks like the attacker is struggling or nearly stalling to stay with you when in reality he is in complete control and managing his AOT to you.
BTW..if you spot this tactic it is a great oppurtunity to turn things around into a rolling scissor and get out of his guns.
I use this tactic all the time to "out turn" turny planes in a 109K4. It's not really out turning them but is looks like it when they are looking back at me.
If you have position and sufficient speed you can start with standard low or high yoyo's to force them into harder break turns to bleed more of their E. Now you can close seperation and turn inside with the shallow yoyo and get the ...ownage 100 out..I caught your prettythang$ kill shot.
All the while that pesky spit 5 is thinking....heheh I'm gonna be on his six in two turns....until your chopping his tail off with your prop and spattering brains all over his cockpit.... :devil
I really recommend you visit the TA just for a few sorties and get one of the trainers to practice with you. Its always the basics that end up resulting in ownage.
If you can't do properly timed and calculated yoyo's against a turning bandit you won't be able to get any kills in a turn fight. It only get worse the more turns you make. Each one has to be done correctly or he get your six by flat out turning you.
Agent360
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Why is it just because I said I have a problem with my plane responding to turns everyone assumes ALL I do is flat turn and have no idea what I am doing? :rofl It was a scaling and stability issue with my stick. Problem solved. I am way beyond the entry level fundamentals.
If you don't want people to try and help you don't post your problems here your original post was pretty vague other than I can't turn.
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Will due respect. I mean no insutls here and am only posting what I think about the situation.
If its not your stick..not your stick settings...not your plane....and not your fist...then there is only one thing left.........Your tactics...or "YOU". You have eleminated everything else.
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Wow, nice write-up but you apparently didn't notice this a couple of messages earlier:
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It was a scaling and stability issue with my stick. Problem solved. I am way beyond the entry level fundamentals.
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If you don't want people to try and help you don't post your problems here your original post was pretty vague other than I can't turn.
Useless reply, and you must not have read most of the thread.
I appreciate the remedial suggestions on the 109 but I am beyond those ya big sillies :salute
The first two responses inspired me to read a little more on stick configuration and I changed my scaling. There appears to be an improvement not only in turning and going into the vertical but overall stability, which I believe is the predicate here.
Sounds like he found the help he was looking for.
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Useless reply, and you must not have read most of the thread
He gave a basic question then said he was beyond that when he got a basic response people aren't mind readers.
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Yeah I don't fly for pilot score. My group flies for base take score, currently #1 in the game in that area :aok Unfortunately this objective calls for extremely dangerous mission types that aren't conducive to flying home all too often.
This could be the fundemental problem. Too much time taking bases. Get back to fighting other birds.
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He gave a basic question then said he was beyond that when he got a basic response people aren't mind readers.
C'mon dude! This was the VERY FIRST SENTENCE!
Okay let me preface this by saying that I've been flying WWII birds online for a decade and understand the basics as far as E, speed, plane types, their attributes, etc. so I'm not exactly a noob.
There was nothing "vague" about it. That is why I "prefaced" so that you would "read" the preface and not jump to the "conclusion" you inappropriately jumped to.
I stepped on no toes, I made no outrageous assertions, I did nothing other than try to find an solution to a problem while providing as much background on me and my problem so that it could get solved efficiently. All your post goes to show is that A) some people really don't read anything and B) no matter how appropriately you try to communicate with the community someone will STILL have a problem with you.
Go find some other thread to skim your way through because you're offering nothing here except for grief.
I"ll let Agent360 get away with it because it's his instinct to help and HIS post will help more people than this entire thread combined.
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ok, now I GOTA know...
What is your AH CPID in game? (slyguy)
My ID is qSLYp. Go ask ZULU6 about me. He'll tell you anything you need to know about my "experience" level if it's really that important to you. Not trying to be defensive but now I feel like I'm on trial and I don't understand why. All I did was propose a problem and try my best to remove certain items from the usual "check list" that I already have covered. See, I knew it would happen so I didn't just crawl out from under a rock.
I was trying to help the community help me by providing it with the information to get the job done efficiently. End of story.
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My ID is qSLYp. Go ask ZULU6 about me. He'll tell you anything you need to know about my "experience" level if it's really that important to you. Not trying to be defensive but now I feel like I'm on trial and I don't understand why. All I did was propose a problem and try my best to remove certain items from the usual "check list" that I already have covered. See, I knew it would happen so I didn't just crawl out from under a rock.
I was trying to help the community help me by providing it with the information to get the job done efficiently. End of story.
I was just curious how long you had flown, and wanted a peek at your stats.
I also was wondering who the #1 base taking squad in AH was. (i'm still wondering actually) Not sure why you would toss out such and outlandish claim, but after re-reading the thead just now it sorta "fits" so there is that.
I would considering tossing the Logitec as they are notorious for being really, really terrible joysticks that tend to only last for 6 months ish. If you need a j/s under $50 I would point you to Saitek. Logitec I would avoid if at all possible.
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Slyguy,
I am a little confused. Have you solved your problem with the stick scaling? Do you feel you are turning properly now?
If not, regardless of your "experience" there is nothing wrong with a few min in the TA or just finding a friend and practicing turning. I get my squaddies to help me all the time. We all get into slumps and often all it takes is a little "work out". I often ask my friends to fly something impossible for me to out turn in a k4...like a spit 5 or even a zeek. We then work on the specific problem.
I am in the DA alot. If you see me in there I would be glad to do some jousting.
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One HUGE problem is that logicrap joystick, I had one of those at first and kept hearing how they are junk. I finally moved up to CH and the difference is unbelieveable. I tried to plug the logitec into one of my other computers the other day and it was un-usable.
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I'm using the Logitech 3D Pro just for further detail.
Throw it away - preferably into the fire, otherwise some child may find it and try to use it. I had it and couldn't turn with it. The problem is that it had very narrow range of deflection and therefore is very sensitive to fluctuations. The small deflection range is good for "twitch" games, but terrible for flight sims where you need precision, not speed. Good scaling advances you from "unplayable" to "just plain bad".
When you buy a stick for flight sim, wiggle it a little and make sure it has a large deflection range. My ancient CH-flightstick was the best in this respect. Then I had the Logitech for a short time, threw it away in disgust and got an old Microsoft FF2. The difference was worlds apart.
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Throw it away - preferably into the fire, otherwise some child may find it and try to use it. I had it and couldn't turn with it. The problem is that it had very narrow range of deflection and therefore is very sensitive to fluctuations. The small deflection range is good for "twitch" games, but terrible for flight sims where you need precision, not speed. Good scaling advances you from "unplayable" to "just plain bad".
When you buy a stick for flight sim, wiggle it a little and make sure it has a large deflection range. My ancient CH-flightstick was the best in this respect. Then I had the Logitech for a short time, threw it away in disgust and got an old Microsoft FF2. The difference was worlds apart.
I can't agree more on this one, I had my logitech 3d pro for 8 months, 8 months of pain, everyday recalibrating both win and in game, scaling, raising and decreasing damp, dead zones etc... I could only get kills in deflection shots or sometimes in straight shots using the trim for "little" corrections. Before that logicrap I used the MS sidewinder precision pro, it is still impressive and accurate but I dont use it anymore due to the analogic port (new computer doesnt have it). So I just bought a new full CH set, a whole different story compared to the Logi 3dpro.
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Will due respect. I mean no insutls here and am only posting what I think about the situation.
If its not your stick..not your stick settings...not your plane....and not your fist...then there is only one thing left.........Your tactics...or "YOU". You have eleminated everything else.
Either one or all of these things are happening to you.
1. You are being out yoyo'ed on the horizontal.
2. You are being out climbed/stall turned on the verticle
3. You are being out rolling scissored.
4. or all of these at once.
It's all a matter of...."the angle of the dangle"
The answer isnt anything "complicated". The solution to your problem lies in the basics.... throttle controll and angles. Ace drivers can make an almost invisible low or high yoyo. When engaged in a turn fight trying to win angles on the horizontal line one can make very shallow to slight low or high yoyo's and cut you off in 1 or 2 turns. These yoyo's are hard to detect. The two circles are being manipulated on an axis. The bandit tilts his circle off angle 5 or 10 degrees. This makes his circle oblique ( the ends of the oval are the yoyo's, the sides are where the gun solutions are). The defender stays in a flat or more circular circle. The attacker can use throttle control to change the shape of the oblique circle and get repeaded shots on the defender as he yoyo's up and down across your rounder circle. From the defenders perspective this looks like an attacker who is sliding from high to low..it often looks like the attacker is struggling or nearly stalling to stay with you when in reality he is in complete control and managing his AOT to you.
BTW..if you spot this tactic it is a great oppurtunity to turn things around into a rolling scissor and get out of his guns.
I use this tactic all the time to "out turn" turny planes in a 109K4. It's not really out turning them but is looks like it when they are looking back at me.
If you have position and sufficient speed you can start with standard low or high yoyo's to force them into harder break turns to bleed more of their E. Now you can close seperation and turn inside with the shallow yoyo and get the ...ownage 100 out..I caught your prettythang$ kill shot.
All the while that pesky spit 5 is thinking....heheh I'm gonna be on his six in two turns....until your chopping his tail off with your prop and spattering brains all over his cockpit.... :devil
I really recommend you visit the TA just for a few sorties and get one of the trainers to practice with you. Its always the basics that end up resulting in ownage.
If you can't do properly timed and calculated yoyo's against a turning bandit you won't be able to get any kills in a turn fight. It only get worse the more turns you make. Each one has to be done correctly or he get your six by flat out turning you.
Agent360
Dude your unselfish efforts to help others get better has to be noted here. Your films included. I don't care if slyguy got his solution or not. Simply reading through this thread helps me. I feel the same way he does. I worked the stick scaling and got smarter about the rides I've been in to no avail and have simply come to the conclusion that a little personal effort or elbow grease on my part is needed for me to be successful in this game. I played a while back in the time of AW3 and I was much better then than I am now in AH2. Of course to be honest I didn't fly in the Full Realism arenas much so I was handicapped for sure. But coming here, I was left confused but realized that the pilots in this genre have gotten better and wiser. I'm not talking about the few who were always on top but like the middle of the pack on. There are more good pilots on now than ever before. Maybe thats why secrets are held back more than not to keep that edge which I totally understand.
If you want to enjoy success here you have to put effort in. Reap what you sow kinda thing. And with the information you and others put out there is much appreciative. :rock To use an analogy its kinda like golf. You can play as many rounds of golf and not get better though your trying, but it doesn't come close to comparison what you gain from the driving range. I think for me now my time is more well spent in the TA than the MA.
Carry on.