Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Wolfala on May 14, 2009, 02:27:56 PM
-
Yea I know, its not a 407 but who cares. Somehow, during a smooth flight from Montauk to Islip yesterday, that little piece of toejam telephone cable that goes from the ACK switch up front to the ELT came out of its housing on the ELT. So the damn thing started going off. I checked the ACK light - nothing came up. Since I was next to Spadaro and all their craziness I thought it was someone who planted a 152 hard - not unusual for that airport or their tenants.
Anyway, the kicker was - I could transmit just fine, but I had 9/10th bleedover from the damn ELT. I couldn't hear a damn thing from ATC until their signal strength burned through the ELT's signal. It was on all frequencies - and I literally had to be next to the tower they were transmitting to hear what they were saying.
So here's the thing - will the 407 have the same radio jamming feature as the UHF/VHF version? Can I just toejamcan the UHF/VHF since its no longer monitored anyway? I'd rather not have a lostcomm emergency by a box sitting in the back seat that no one listens to and jams everything incoming.
-
Try kicking the flux condipulator while shaking the jux link that usualy works for me.
-
hehehehe,..he said toejam
-
Yea I know, its not a 407 but who cares.
Are you operating over water regularly and so requiring overwater certification? :D
-
With a 406 you wouldn't have that problem. :) They operate at 406 MHz as opposed to 121.5 so you're not even close to the frequencies you use for normal VHF comms/Navs. Older radios can have bleed over and even newer ones in a our 45 can bleed to the point you can hear the other guy picking up the ATIS or calling the FBO in the headset.
That said...
Was there no method of disabling or rearming the ELT? There should be a switch installed to do just that for testing/arming.
-
With a 406 you wouldn't have that problem. :) They operate at 406 MHz as opposed to 121.5 so you're not even close to the frequencies you use for normal VHF comms/Navs. Older radios can have bleed over and even newer ones in a our 45 can bleed to the point you can hear the other guy picking up the ATIS or calling the FBO in the headset.
That said...
Was there no method of disabling or rearming the ELT? There should be a switch installed to do just that for testing/arming.
The RJ45 cable that was flapping in the breeze was directly connected to that reset switch. Believe me, it was being pushed. Had to land, pull the panel - reconnect the RJ45, went up to the cockpit, now saw the red blinking light - hit the reset switch and THEN it worked.
But the odd thing is, why it wouldn't randomly activated in smooth air and then when that RJ45 cable went away? It didn't activate when I removed it over the annual to replace the batteries. Makes no sense either way. And yea, 406.
-
I thought there was a mandated change (required equipment upgrade) a few years back? We are not required to use them but I still have the 121.5 ELT type.
-
The 121.5 is legal from a regulatory standpoint for part 91 flying. The 406's are required for hire and there will be a date when they are mandated I'm sure but as far as I know there isn't one set.
An ELT in general is a requirement for everyone as are their inspections/tests.
What did happen was there is no longer any satellite monitoring of 121.5 so your location will be subject to those flying along monitoring guard. The 406 is satellite monitored but you have to have one of the satellites sweep (they are not in geosync orbit like GPS) past to get a location on you. There can be hours between passes of satellites. One thing you can do is run a GPS signal through the ELT so it broadcasts where you are/were when it started going off so you don't have to wait for a location satellite to pinpoint you.
-
Be careful how you use that 'everyone' please. :D
-
I thought that Cirrus pilots were waiting for the tiniest emergency so they have a reason to pull the CAPS? You're disappointing me ;)
-
Just wait for blinking green and then green from tower. :D
-
Yea I know, its not a 407 but who cares. Somehow, during a smooth flight from Montauk to Islip yesterday, that little piece of soup telephone cable that goes from the ACK switch up front to the ELT came out of its housing on the ELT. So the damn thing started going off. I checked the ACK light - nothing came up. Since I was next to Spadaro and all their craziness I thought it was someone who planted a 152 hard - not unusual for that airport or their tenants.
Anyway, the kicker was - I could transmit just fine, but I had 9/10th bleedover from the damn ELT. I couldn't hear a damn thing from ATC until their signal strength burned through the ELT's signal. It was on all frequencies - and I literally had to be next to the tower they were transmitting to hear what they were saying.
So here's the thing - will the 407 have the same radio jamming feature as the UHF/VHF version? Can I just soupcan the UHF/VHF since its no longer monitored anyway? I'd rather not have a lostcomm emergency by a box sitting in the back seat that no one listens to and jams everything incoming.
when we're searching for ELT's, as we get closer, we often turn off the elpr, and use handheld radios. as we get even closer, we remove the antennas. that signal will overpower anything close to it.
-
The 121.5 is legal from a regulatory standpoint for part 91 flying. The 406's are required for hire and there will be a date when they are mandated I'm sure but as far as I know there isn't one set.
An ELT in general is a requirement for everyone as are their inspections/tests.
What did happen was there is no longer any satellite monitoring of 121.5 so your location will be subject to those flying along monitoring guard. The 406 is satellite monitored but you have to have one of the satellites sweep (they are not in geosync orbit like GPS) past to get a location on you. There can be hours between passes of satellites. One thing you can do is run a GPS signal through the ELT so it broadcasts where you are/were when it started going off so you don't have to wait for a location satellite to pinpoint you.
i thought the sarsat satallites were going to stop listening for 121.5 elt's in feb. 2010?
-
i thought the sarsat satallites were going to stop listening for 121.5 elt's in feb. 2010?
February of this year. We have been selling the 406 ELTs like hot cakes as of late. Mostly thought to folks outside the country where they mandate it.
Just a word of warning to aircraft owners. The satellite system quit listening and it is pilot's responsibilty to monitor 121.5. Also, control towers and regional centers may be monitoring 121.5. However, after talking with our controller here in Lakeland, FL, they will be monitoring that frequency only once every 24 hours. That is similar to what I have heard in other locations. For safetys sake, get the new ELT. There are slide-in replacements available that will lower the installation costs. PM me if you want info on specific units.
-
February of this year. We have been selling the 406 ELTs like hot cakes as of late. Mostly thought to folks outside the country where they mandate it.
Just a word of warning to aircraft owners. The satellite system quit listening and it is pilot's responsibilty to monitor 121.5. Also, control towers and regional centers may be monitoring 121.5. However, after talking with our controller here in Lakeland, FL, they will be monitoring that frequency only once every 24 hours. That is similar to what I have heard in other locations. For safetys sake, get the new ELT. There are slide-in replacements available that will lower the installation costs. PM me if you want info on specific units.
would you believe that we(CAP)aren't upgrading our aircraft to the new 406? we lost a LOT of funding from the govt.......over 30k in jersey alone.
-
Yea I know, its not a 407 but who cares. Somehow, during a smooth flight from Montauk to Islip yesterday, that little piece of soup telephone cable that goes from the ACK switch up front to the ELT came out of its housing on the ELT. So the damn thing started going off. I checked the ACK light - nothing came up. Since I was next to Spadaro and all their craziness I thought it was someone who planted a 152 hard - not unusual for that airport or their tenants.
Anyway, the kicker was - I could transmit just fine, but I had 9/10th bleedover from the damn ELT. I couldn't hear a damn thing from ATC until their signal strength burned through the ELT's signal. It was on all frequencies - and I literally had to be next to the tower they were transmitting to hear what they were saying.
So here's the thing - will the 407 have the same radio jamming feature as the UHF/VHF version? Can I just soupcan the UHF/VHF since its no longer monitored anyway? I'd rather not have a lostcomm emergency by a box sitting in the back seat that no one listens to and jams everything incoming.
My cat's name is Mittens.
-
Back in 1994, I designed the crash sensor used in many, maybe most ELTs meeting the requirements of RTCA DO-183 (121.5/243 MHz), EUROCAE ED62 (121.5/243 MHz and 406 MHz) and RTCA DO-204 (406 MHz). We manufacture about 30,000 sensors annually.
The DO-204 requirement unifies U.S. and EUROCAE specifications in regard to the crash sensor response curve. DO-183 has contained specification error since it was released. Essentially, DO-183 calls for no-trigger when exposed to 22g of vibration at 44Hz. However, its dynamic response curve shows that the Delta V generated at that amplitude and frequency falls right into the may-operate area of the crash response curve Delta V. In other words, the ELT must not trigger and yet trigger to the exact same velocity change... :rolleyes:
This required that I design the sensor to operate in the upper half of the g/time curve to avoid unwanted tripping during FAA qualification vibration testing (Delta V response requirements for DO-183 are 3 ft/sec/sec no fire, 4 ft/sec/sec must fire). This nearly doubled the cost of the sensor and increased cost of the ELT to the user. EUROCAE recognized this screw-up and shifted the g/time curve upwards, as well as static g value. Thus, they specified 4 ft/sec/sec no fire and 5 ft/sec/sec must fire. Static g sensing increased from 2.0g +/- 0.3g to 2.3g +/- .03g. With the adoption of the 406 MHz frequency, the RTCA DO-204 spec adopted the EUROCAE g/time curve.
We are currently finishing up development of an improved sensor, which will be installed in Kannad ELTs before the end of this year, with several other manufacturers coming online with it soon after. We see little demand for DO-183 sensors, but the demand for DO-204 (406 MHz) sensors is booming.
We have been trying to get the FAA to look at the all aspect sensors we currently supply for the Navy. Current ELTs sense a crash in the forward direction only. These new all aspect sensors will sense a crash in any direction, even backwards. We are retrofitting these sensors to the units installed in E-2Cs and C-2As, with identical sensor packs being used for their emergency lighting as well.
My regards,
Widewing
-
I think less than half of the soaring guys use ELTs at all but they are obviously a good idea along with PLBs and not just for aviators. You appear more interesting every day Widewing. :aok