Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: WGUtah on May 17, 2009, 10:56:21 AM
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Subject: C-Hog (F4U-1C) and F4U-4 Perky Points.
Before writing this I went back in some of the old threads and to the points section (of the web page) to research any old questions or comments about it. So you guys who have been playing a thousand years, please bear with me if this has come up before (I couldn’t find an answer).
I, and the Squadron I’m in, fly almost exclusively US made. The best thing about that is that we are forced to become better pilots quickly. Let’s face it, the majority of US planes are not outright the most maneuverable or their not the fastest and they certainly are not the best armed. Flying US forces you to learn the aircrafts strengths and weaknesses and play off of them.
So what I can’t understand is why, when so many other aircraft have cannon capability, the main US cannon equipped plane costs about what the new US budget deficit is??? People can take up a Typhoon or N1K2-J or 190 or (omg) even a zeak… with tons of canon for free and the only US fighter with canon cost! Oh, and don’t even say; “well there’s the P39” with its whole five seconds of burst, lol
Come on AH! I understand the C-Hog was a late war winner but drop the perk’s on it!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Oh God.
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Your wrong about the maneuverability of the US planes, especially the hogs. They are some of the best planes in the game becuase they can do it all well.
When the Chog was introduced it was before perks. In fact I think the perk system was designed in part as a result of the way the chog was being flown.
Depending on ENY the chog only cost 10-15 perks, and the -4 isn't that much more. Thats damn cheap in my opinion, especially for the -4 which is one of the best all around planes in the game.
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Or if you flew half way decent in any of the other American rides flying a Chog would be no hassle at all with all the perks you should have stored up.
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Oh God.
Agreed Kazaa...oh Allah :uhoh
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the -4 isn't that much more. Thats damn cheap in my opinion, especially for the -4 which is one of the best all around planes in the game.
+1, I'm amazed that how well that plane can turn, you've got to love those superflaps.
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UTah:
The reason the C-Hog is perked is because it was *very* uncommon compared to other Hogs, and if it were not perked you'd probably see little else coming off of carriers. You are entirely correct that neither its firepower nor its performance is unique, there being many fast and/or maneuverable unperked fighters packing similar lethality.
Learn to love the F4U-1A, it is superior in every way except lethality.
Subject: C-Hog (F4U-1C) and F4U-4 Perky Points.
Before writing this I went back in some of the old threads and to the points section (of the web page) to research any old questions or comments about it. So you guys who have been playing a thousand years, please bear with me if this has come up before (I couldn’t find an answer).
I, and the Squadron I’m in, fly almost exclusively US made. The best thing about that is that we are forced to become better pilots quickly. Let’s face it, the majority of US planes are not outright the most maneuverable or their not the fastest and they certainly are not the best armed. Flying US forces you to learn the aircrafts strengths and weaknesses and play off of them.
So what I can’t understand is why, when so many other aircraft have cannon capability, the main US cannon equipped plane costs about what the new US budget deficit is??? People can take up a Typhoon or N1K2-J or 190 or (omg) even a zeak… with tons of canon for free and the only US fighter with canon cost! Oh, and don’t even say; “well there’s the P39” with its whole five seconds of burst, lol
Come on AH! I understand the C-Hog was a late war winner but drop the perk’s on it!!!!!!!!!!!!
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+1, I'm amazed that how well that plane can turn, you've got to love those superflaps.
I think all the hogs turn well, some of the best turners in the game perhaps, not just from turn rate but from maneuverability in the turn. I love dragging spits and other "maneuverable" planes to the deck and then flat turn them. They almost always follow thinking the hog can't turn, and 20 seconds later I'm on their 6 picking parts off their plane.
But I think what really makes the -4 amazing is this turn rate added to an amazing acceleration and speed range.
Either way it doesn't need the perks lowered, I'm actually surprised its not flown a lot more being that its so cheap now.
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UTah:
The reason the C-Hog is perked is because it was *very* uncommon, and so you will see something *besides* C-Hogs coming off of carriers. You are entirely correct that neither its firepower nor its performance is unique, there being many fast and/or maneuverable unperked fighters packing similar lethality.
Learn to love the F4U-1A, it is superior in every way except lethality.
I don't think the chog was perked because it was uncommon. The perk system was put into effect becuase the chog was uber compared to just about every other plane in game at that time. It was also being flown significantly more than other planes. Now we have several uber planes so the chog doesn't seem all that great, but in the day it was THE plane in aces high.
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I think lotsa newer folks think hogs, jugs, 51's are dogs, have the spit and niki as a reference, and try to fly them as such
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I don't think the chog was perked because it was uncommon. The perk system was put into effect becuase the chog was uber compared to just about every other plane in game at that time. It was also being flown significantly more than other planes. Now we have several uber planes so the chog doesn't seem all that great....
QFT...
I think the problem lies not so much in the fact that the hogs have a mild perk, it's that there are equivalent planes that can dominate a fight that are unperked. Such as the LA-7 and Spit XVI. Leaving those two without any cost for the ride doesn't make any sense, when planes like the Spit XIV and C-hog have a cost associated with flying them. Imho, the 3-gun LA-7 and Spit XVI both should cost an equivalent perk as the F4U-1C in order to encourage flying other LA's and Spits, much like the C-hog's perk cost puts more pilots in -1A hogs and D's.
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If I recall correctly at the time the C-Hog was perked it was because it made up 50% of the planes in the air at any given time. Put simply using todays numbers, if LWO has 400 people in it, then 200 people would be currently flying C-Hogs. It's not perked because of it's performance, it's perked due to a game play balance.
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A lot of competition has been added to the planeset since the CHog was perked. I see no reason why it shouldn't be unperked for a trial run to see what happens. After all, we have the XVI for free to compete with it.
Edit: The same does not apply to the F4U-4. There are no unperked aircraft that can compete with it.
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It's not perked because of it's performance, it's perked due to a game play balance.
This seems a rather perverse definition of "balance" to me... :devil
If a given airplane does not really have any tremendous advantages over most of the plane set, what matters if a lot of people choose to fly it? An only "fairly" competitive but popular ride that does not effect the *viability* of other rides does not limit anyone's freedom to fly something else in a substantive way. Theoretically, if you had two almost identical performing rides, but one was vastly more popular, you could end up perking one, but not its near twin. Seems an odd notion, almost fascist, this attempt to control based on popularity rather than performance...
The most important mitigating factor in the case of the C-Hog is that it is *carrier plane*, and clearly has the most ferocious firepower of anything that comes off a CV. If it were not available on carriers, it would probably deserve to be unperked.
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Just fly a DHog it is the same as the CHog and you can still rip someone's wing off on a snapshot.
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IMO the American 6 M2 package is one of the better gun packages in the game. I can never hit anything when I'm flying American aircraft because the bullets actually go where I want them to, not 5 miles behind. :lol
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One point I would like to hone in on is the fact that if you fly all US and try to take down a base, you have to have big numbers of pilots or fly something from another country (i.e. 110's, niks...) to get the towns down.
There are some great points being made. Overall concenses seems to be that the perks should go from the C-Hog.
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AKHog---I agree that the US aircraft are on par with anyother. With throttle control, flap and rudder control I can out turn a lot of zeak pilots. The learning curve for US aircraft is much larger than many others. You really have to know the plane and practice more than a lot of others. Of course there are exceptions and lots of buts or what if's.
My main point is that there are few planes in the US set with versital fire power as in others.
your point is well taken
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One point I would like to hone in on is the fact that if you fly all US and try to take down a base, you have to have big numbers of pilots or fly something from another country (i.e. 110's, niks...) to get the towns down.
If you can't take down a town with P-47s then you are hopeless.
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Could somebody post a link to that AH Jabo assesment that was done?
It listed the best JABO planes and after searching for 30min I have decided I am just not using the right search terms and can't find it.
It was a chart that showed which planes were the best at ground pounding.
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One point I would like to hone in on is the fact that if you fly all US and try to take down a base, you have to have big numbers of pilots or fly something from another country (i.e. 110's, niks...) to get the towns down.
There are some great points being made. Overall concenses seems to be that the perks should go from the C-Hog.
American aircraft carry more ordinance than any other country's :aok
American aircraft are fast, heavily armored and heavily armed. Their turn radius usually isn't the tightest but it's easy to work around this. American and British aircraft are among the easier planes in the game to fight with IMO...
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A lot of competition has been added to the planeset since the CHog was perked. I see no reason why it shouldn't be unperked for a trial run to see what happens. After all, we have the XVI for free to compete with it.
Edit: The same does not apply to the F4U-4. There are no unperked aircraft that can compete with it.
I used to think the same way... but stop and think how often we see the Nik2, Hurricane IIc, and Typhoon. I bet if the C-Hog was unperked... it'd be used MORE than any of those previous three bruisers.
I say leave it perked and if anything... apply MOAR perks.
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Subject: C-Hog (F4U-1C) and F4U-4 Perky Points.
There are many threads going back to 2001, etc., had you really looked. Wanna know what they asked? PERK THE CHOG.
Go figure.
Why don't you try flying and gaining perk points if you want to fly them.
Ren
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Let’s face it, the majority of US planes are not outright the most maneuverable
Tell that to AKDogg...
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A lot of competition has been added to the planeset since the CHog was perked. I see no reason why it shouldn't be unperked for a trial run to see what happens. After all, we have the XVI for free to compete with it.
Edit: The same does not apply to the F4U-4. There are no unperked aircraft that can compete with it.
I'd say if you unperked the C-hog that would be the only plane you would see off carriers.
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(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/ren1795/agree.gif)
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I'd say if you unperked the C-hog that would be the only plane you would see off carriers.
Kind of like the XVI being the plane of choice for defending against CV attacks, huh? ;)
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Kind of like the XVI being the plane of choice for defending against CV attacks, huh? ;)
Very well may be :P
Though I tend to choose either the 234 or 109F for CV defense.
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Very well may be :P
Though I tend to choose either the 234 or 109F for CV defense.
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss316/ren1795/agree.gif)
Opps sorry....
I like the Hog for CV defense. It flies well, kinda, nice.
Ren
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The US budget deficit is 5 perks? :huh
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srsly, stop crying and start killing. . .then you will have enough perks to fly whatever you want.
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srsly, stop crying and start killing. . .then you will have enough perks to fly whatever you want.
+1 :rofl
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Subject: C-Hog (F4U-1C) and F4U-4 Perky Points.
Before writing this I went back in some of the old threads and to the points section (of the web page) to research any old questions or comments about it. So you guys who have been playing a thousand years, please bear with me if this has come up before (I couldn’t find an answer).
I, and the Squadron I’m in, fly almost exclusively US made. The best thing about that is that we are forced to become better pilots quickly. Let’s face it, the majority of US planes are not outright the most maneuverable or their not the fastest and they certainly are not the best armed. Flying US forces you to learn the aircrafts strengths and weaknesses and play off of them.
So what I can’t understand is why, when so many other aircraft have cannon capability, the main US cannon equipped plane costs about what the new US budget deficit is??? People can take up a Typhoon or N1K2-J or 190 or (omg) even a zeak… with tons of canon for free and the only US fighter with canon cost! Oh, and don’t even say; “well there’s the P39” with its whole five seconds of burst, lol
Come on AH! I understand the C-Hog was a late war winner but drop the perk’s on it!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is the perk cost on 38's now ? :O
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That's ok. My grandkids can pay for it. :D
Ren
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A lot of competition has been added to the planeset since the CHog was perked. I see no reason why it shouldn't be unperked for a trial run to see what happens. After all, we have the XVI for free to compete with it.
Edit: The same does not apply to the F4U-4. There are no unperked aircraft that can compete with it.
You have to keep in mind the CV factor.
If the C-hog was un-perked imagine the hordes of 4 x cannon armed dorks rolling bombs and butt-loads of cannon into fields and towns.
Free C-hogs would bust open the CV assault and defence game.
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What is the perk cost on 38's now ? :O
^^^^ hlbly was too obtuse, it appears. P38's still have cannon.
But you're missing the point. The challenge is to win fights when you're not in the best turner, or the fastest, or armed with cannons. Sure, P38s have cannons, but that's to compensate for the "shoot me" sign.
Otherwise, it's all about style. You'll always look stylish in a P51 or P38. Hellcats and Jugs grow in beauty over time. Just like wearing the black tux, you'll always look your best in blue and bentwings.
HONK!
Gooss
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The learning curve for US aircraft is much larger than many others. You really have to know the plane and practice more than a lot of others.
My main point is that there are few planes in the US set with versital fire power as in others.
First I think the 109s and 190s are some of the hardest planes to fly, when ever I have ran across a 109 its one of two things. Either 1 its a total noob pilot that has no clue how to use the planes strengths to his advantage, or 2 someone who has taken the time to learn the plane and kicks my arse to hell and back. Same goes for the 190 either its a picktard or someone who took the time to learn how the plane moves and kick my arse.
And about your main point, what do you mean by versatile fire power? Most American planes carry enough bombs to almost be considered light bombers. Just because they mostly have 50 cals doesn't mean they are not versatile. The D-Hog is an extremely versatile plane, up off a CV drop close to 3k worth of ords on town or the field. Then you get right to dogfighting with some of the best turners in the game. Also have you ever gotten into a high speed fight with a jug? Those 8 50s can be a scary thing if you can't shake that plane after it latches onto your 6.
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You know I use to have the opinion about American Steel, but as I very quickly learned, in the right hands American rides or very competitive. I ran across a player (Strong10) early this morning flying a P-51 and he made that bird do things that was out of this world. I was so impressed that I was hoping the fight would of went on and on, it was just amazing to see a P-51 dance like that. <S> Strong10
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You have to keep in mind the CV factor.
If the C-hog was un-perked imagine the hordes of 4 x cannon armed dorks rolling bombs and butt-loads of cannon into fields and towns.
Free C-hogs would bust open the CV assault and defence game.
I'm not clear on what your objection is here. Is it that the F4U-1C is would be too effective a jabo plane from a CV? It can't be any more effective than the land-based 110G/N1K hordes that routinely take down fields and towns in two or three minutes.
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N1Ks and 110s arent F4Us.
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N1Ks and 110s arent F4Us.
Well then the argument must be that the F4U-1C is too effective for jabo, period, not that it would be too effective from CVs.
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It can't be any more effective than the land-based 110G/N1K hordes that routinely take down fields and towns in two or three minutes.
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7505/atgdest.jpg)