Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Furball on May 19, 2009, 09:53:14 AM
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Missing-Link-Scientists-In-New-York-Unveil-Fossil-Of-Lemur-Monkey-Hailed-As-Mans-Earliest-Ancestor/Article/200905315284582?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15284582_Missing_Link%3A_Scientists_In_New_York_Unveil_Fossil_Of_Lemur_Monkey_Hailed_As_Mans_Earliest_Ancestor
Scientists have unveiled a 47-million-year-old fossilised skeleton of a monkey hailed as the missing link in human evolution.
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Anyone else think that the guy in the vid looks like a German version of Meat Loaf?
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Its still a monkey and a 45 million year old monkey too. What the claim is all about is that this is 'the' link between arboreal tree-dwelling monkey and bipedal upright walking ape-like hominids. Whether you can accept the monkey to ape jump at all and whether you accept the evolution thing overall is for you to decide obviously but I cant say at all whether this latest fossil is 'the' link at all and I doubt even the most educated paleontoligist can either.
In other words their guessing.
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and I doubt even the most educated paleontoligist can either.
In other words their guessing.
And you're qualified to credibly assert this, how?
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Bones are not good evidence and leads only to speculation and if you doubt that try to prove ancestral lineage in court through the use of bones and in the absence of dna evidence. Its just guessing at that point.
Even Leakeys findings have been disputed years after his published works and this find will be no different.
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Ear hair has a biological purpose in protecting your ear canal from possible infections but also serves to give notice to women that there is still testosterone coursing through those veins. :D
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If you don't want to alter "perfect" conception, why not go back to living in caves and speaking in grunts? That argument is incredible.
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If you don't want to alter "perfect" conception, why not go back to living in caves and speaking in grunts? That argument is incredible.
But, see, she doesn't believe that either...
No mention of speaking in grunts and cave living fits her perception of history... Think more along the lines of ancient egypt as "the beginning" or nearly so. "Man" may have been around earlier than that, but the whole "pre-history" and "primitive man" idea doesn't really fit her perception of how things "began".
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If you don't want to alter "perfect" conception, why not go back to living in caves and speaking in grunts? That argument is incredible.
You do realize you argued for one side of the discussion by using both 'exclusive' viewpoints? Now thats incredible!
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What?
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Someone that suggests 'perfect conception' (as you mentioned and I have no idea what it really means) is not going to accept the 'live in caves and grunt talk' scenario.
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And you're qualified to credibly assert this, how?
From his best 'guess'.
ack-ack
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Bones are not good evidence and leads only to speculation and if you doubt that try to prove ancestral lineage in court through the use of bones and in the absence of dna evidence. Its just guessing at that point.
Even Leakeys findings have been disputed years after his published works and this find will be no different.
The work of the Leakey family and the discovery of Lucy by Donald Johanson, Yves Coppens and Tim White have been disputed for years but no one has been able to disprove the evidence they've discovered. Just because someone disputes something, doesn't mean it disproves it. The fact that the "lemur-monkey" had opposable big toes and the shape of the talus bone all point to the evidence that this lemur-monkey is a transitional species between the group what would live on as lemurs and the other group developed into monkey, apes and humans.
ack-ack
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Someone that suggests 'perfect conception' (as you mentioned and I have no idea what it really means) is not going to accept the 'live in caves and grunt talk' scenario.
That's just nit picking. The point is that what we may do in the future will make Egyptians as backassward as cavemen.
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That's just nit picking. The point is that what we may do in the future will make Egyptians as backassward as cavemen.
Ahhh, you believe in human progress! I believe we're still cavemen. ;)
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I found this comic both slightly relevant and extremely hilarious.
(http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF055-Dinosaur_Meteors.jpg)
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... but no one has been able to disprove the evidence they've discovered.
Consensus is what universities teach but not insight.
Specialized evolutions obviously occur but that in and of itself is not proof of evolution over millions of years nor proof of monkeys evolving into apes and then finally hominids that one day attain unparalleled communication and tool creation skills.
You cannot prove lineage from bones.
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If you don't want to alter "perfect" conception, why not go back to living in caves and speaking in grunts? That argument is incredible.
(http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo79/xlovex4xlizx/caveman.jpg)
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Think about this.
For hundreds maybe thousands of years those regarded by mankind as the most intelligent thought the World was flat and the Sun
revolved around the earth.
Methinks we've still got much to learn.....just a guess ;)
I do hope this story isn't a cousin of the Hitler Diaries.
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Its still a monkey and a 45 million year old monkey too. What the claim is all about is that this is 'the' link between arboreal tree-dwelling monkey and bipedal upright walking ape-like hominids. Whether you can accept the monkey to ape jump at all and whether you accept the evolution thing overall is for you to decide obviously but I cant say at all whether this latest fossil is 'the' link at all and I doubt even the most educated paleontoligist can either.
"The missing link" is a sham propagated by people who do not like evolution theory. There is no need for a "missing link" when you can show that apes and humans had a common ancestor. How the last common ancestor looked like is interesting, but irrelevant. This "missing link" mantra is just repeated as an argument by the fairy-worshiping folk who will not apply any logic or probability criteria to what was indoctrinated to them (if I use this word correctly).
There is no "monkey to ape jump". There could be fast, but still gradual transitions. The objectors will alway demand to see the stage between this or that, no matter how close they are. It is like demanding to see the watch pointing to 2 O'clock: You can prove that it was a little before 2 and now it is a little after 2, but you will never show that it was exactly 2 some time in the middle - the "missing 2 O'clock" problem.
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If you don't want to alter "perfect" conception, why not go back to living in caves and speaking in grunts? That argument is incredible.
Watched a documentary recently about the Neanderthals where they had started doing DNA testing & looking to crack there genome. Any ways long story short they seem to think now that modern man may have interbred with them & due to the cross breeding we modern man may have got the ability to speak from them.
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If humanity is an example of perfection I'm rather happy, thinking how bad a failure could have been !
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Then again look at the reality of it. A bipedal ape species evolving and unlocking the deepest secrets of the universe, of physics, of time. Did you know we share 97% of the same DNA with chimpanzees?
Makes you wonder how many other rocky, water worlds out there, with a few billion years between planet busters, have churned out similiar critters. Do you think they have flight games?
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I can't believe the debate about evolution is still going on.
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Then again look at the reality of it. A bipedal ape species evolving and unlocking the deepest secrets of the universe, of physics, of time.
That's a bit of a jump!
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Then again look at the reality of it. A bipedal ape species evolving and unlocking the deepest secrets of the universe, of physics, of time. Did you know we share 97% of the same DNA with chimpanzees?
Makes you wonder how many other rocky, water worlds out there, with a few billion years between planet busters, have churned out similiar critters. Do you think they have flight games?
The lack of alien t.v. broadcasts makes me suspect it takes a lot more than a rocky water world. Seriously, our planet must look insane in the radio spectrum right now...if anyone is out there to see it.
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You cannot prove lineage from bones.
why do I find this funny.....and...yes, you can. :aok
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"The missing link" is a sham propagated by people who do not like evolution theory. There is no need for a "missing link" when you can show that apes and humans had a common ancestor. How the last common ancestor looked like is interesting, but irrelevant. This "missing link" mantra is just repeated as an argument by the fairy-worshiping folk who will not apply any logic or probability criteria to what was indoctrinated to them (if I use this word correctly).
There is no "monkey to ape jump". There could be fast, but still gradual transitions. The objectors will alway demand to see the stage between this or that, no matter how close they are. It is like demanding to see the watch pointing to 2 O'clock: You can prove that it was a little before 2 and now it is a little after 2, but you will never show that it was exactly 2 some time in the middle - the "missing 2 O'clock" problem.
:aok
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The lack of alien t.v. broadcasts makes me suspect it takes a lot more than a rocky water world. Seriously, our planet must look insane in the radio spectrum right now...if anyone is out there to see it.
If you realize the distance involved, then lack of "alien TV broadcasts" makes all the more sense. After all, our broadcasts (Radio and TV) have only traveled around 100 light years. Our galaxy is 100,000 light years across. At this point, our first transmissions in the radio spectrum (Hitler's Reichstag address being the loudest, ironically) have traveled past about 113,000 stars, in our local neighborhood.
The Drake Equation puts the probability of life at "around" one in one billion star systems. (though it could obviously be much higher or lower, this is just a starting block)
As well, it should be noted, in that small time, ~100 years, we've gained the possibility of exterminating ourselves. Our development should be considered average until proven otherwise. Therefore, many intelligent species, by probability, will have wiped themselves out shortly after becoming a "radio/TV emanating race"
Also, we've only been listening, and listening is a "loosely" used word, for about 20 years. That means only the stars within 20 light years have been "checked" for signals. In all honesty, we'll probably never hear anything from "out there" unless it's specifically meant for us to hear. The distance is much too great, and time much too short.
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Or it is possible that a single-self replicating cell coming into being, to say nothing of all twists of fate that led to an intelligent species, is actually quite the fluke and we really *are* alone.
Huh...maybe both of us have abit of the truth, and we are both alone and will eventually eradicate ourselves.
I like the quiet.... :aok
If you realize the distance involved, then lack of "alien TV broadcasts" makes all the more sense. After all, our broadcasts (Radio and TV) have only traveled around 100 light years. Our galaxy is 100,000 light years across. At this point, our first transmissions in the radio spectrum (Hitler's Reichstag address being the loudest, ironically) have traveled past about 113,000 stars, in our local neighborhood.
The Drake Equation puts the probability of life at "around" one in one billion star systems. (though it could obviously be much higher or lower, this is just a starting block)
As well, it should be noted, in that small time, ~100 years, we've gained the possibility of exterminating ourselves. Our development should be considered average until proven otherwise. Therefore, many intelligent species, by probability, will have wiped themselves out shortly after becoming a "radio/TV emanating race"
Also, we've only been listening, and listening is a "loosely" used word, for about 20 years. That means only the stars within 20 light years have been "checked" for signals. In all honesty, we'll probably never hear anything from "out there" unless it's specifically meant for us to hear. The distance is much too great, and time much too short.
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"Life" is nothing special.
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Then again look at the reality of it. A bipedal ape species evolving and unlocking the deepest secrets of the universe, of physics, of time. Did you know we share 97% of the same DNA with chimpanzees?
Man shares 98% of the same DNA as Gorrillas..Women shares 98% the same DNA as Chimpanzees.
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Man shares 98% of the same DNA as Gorrillas..Women shares 98% the same DNA as Chimpanzees.
Interesting comparison...Huh...chimps are the violent ones aren't they? But they are also the gregarious ones..
Man could do worse than to imitate some of the ways of the stoic silverback... The chimps OTOH...too much like us for me to like them.
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Do you think the humans in 40,000 years from now will look exactly like us?
Our mouths are shrinking (Thats why we are having our wisdom teeth removed more and more), our colors are becoming mixed and our hair is falling out more and more "we arent cave men anymore"
Im willing to bet in 40,000 years we will look more like grey aliens than white brown or black humans.
Shoot for all i know grey aliens could be humans from the future trying to save themselfs from what they are about to become. or what we are about to make ourself.
but thats just my spin on things.
and im 125% bat watermelon crazy, but hey 200 years ago the earth was flat, black people were sub human and the heavens evolved around the earth.
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I don't see the evolutionary pressures that could possibly be moving us in that direction Bad...for the human race to be moving in that direction, bald guys with no teeth would have to have an edge in reproductive success over those with hair and teeth.
The "Greys" don't make much sense as physically real creatures produced by evolutionary pressures but they DO make sense as a stereotype pop-culture image of what an "alien" should look like, or perhaps even as a stylized fetal image.
Do you think the humans in 40,000 years from now will look exactly like us?
Our mouths are shrinking (Thats why we are having our wisdom teeth removed more and more), our colors are becoming mixed and our hair is falling out more and more "we arent cave men anymore"
Im willing to bet in 40,000 years we will look more like grey aliens than white brown or black humans.
Shoot for all i know grey aliens could be humans from the future trying to save themselfs from what they are about to become. or what we are about to make ourself.
but thats just my spin on things.
and im 125% bat watermelon crazy, but hey 200 years ago the earth was flat, black people were sub human and the heavens evolved around the earth.
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:rofl evolution is a scientific theory...not a religion...but good try lil Lazs. :aok
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why do I find this funny.....and...yes, you can. :aok
That right there is proof positive.
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Sorry, but what?
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Is this your slant on what scientists understand/believe when it comes to evolutionary theory? If so, I understand your refusal to buy into that thinking. It would be easier to believe in magic...
My wife and I reproduced "after our own kind". However, our offspring are not carbon copies of us. They're different. Their genetic make-up is slightly different than ours, for better or worse. It's slightly changed. That's what evolution is really about. Change. Not necessarily good, not necessarily bad, and generally far to subtle to see. Some of those changes may improve survivability and reproduction, some may hinder it. That's where natural selection kicks in.
And, in reality, we do see this happening all around us. And we're able to take our understanding of how evolution works, and use it to our advantage. All one needs to do is swing through the produce section of the supermarket, or drive past a cornfield to see it up close...
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Evolution:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-493414/First-pictures-limbed-baby-arms-mother-amazing-recovery-surgery.html
This one wasn't a success, and most aren't... but once in a while there is a mutation that improved the species.
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There is a saying popular today "soup happens". (meant as a colloquialism)
It's the modern way to excuse an occurance without any depth or insight.
Problem is soup just doesn't happen.....there is always a cause.
Had to modify the prime word I really wanted to use. Known as cause and effect. :aok
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Acknowledging that you don't know how it was created or where it came from is not the same as believing it created itself. As far as we can surmise the Big Bang happened, but I have never heard or read a scientist claim it came from nothing; only they they don't know. Lot's of speculation though.
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Acknowledging that you don't know how it was created or where it came from is not the same as believing it created itself. As far as we can surmise the Big Bang happened, but I have never heard or read a scientist claim it came from nothing; only they they don't know. Lot's of speculation though.
At some point something had to come from nothing. If they were to prove that the universe endlessly creates, destroys, and recreates itself in a cycle for instance, still once could ask whence this came. The great mystery, why anything exists at all, remains.
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Maybe we just can't wrap our brains around the concept of infinity.
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Diehard methinks you hit the nail on the head.
Tracing back the earths creation could be infinite. One just can't say "The Big Bang" or "Let there be Light"
Everything we've heard from both camps is pure theory.
Since no one I know or have read about was around at the time of the earths creation
everything is a guess.
I guess we'll have to wait awhile on that one ;)
Just note what I posted earlier in this thread.....the most learned at one time thought the world flat and the Sun
orbited the earth. We're not as smart as we think we are. We've much to learn.....if we wish to.
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There is no evidence of any kind to show any species will reproduce into something else. Or that it ever has. They are many fossils of extinct animals there is no fossil record of any transitionary animal. animal to animal or animal to human.
Have you only seen one breed of dog your entire life?
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As your average English speaker uses the word "theory," it is hopelessly ambiguous. The problem is that in every day speach, theory means a hunch, a guess, a tentative explanation, whereas in science "theory" is the epistemic goal.
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Man folks got banned/suspended for this thread.
No reason to let it live.