Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Animal on April 15, 2001, 06:54:00 PM
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Hi,
Nice looking model. Very ugly plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
anyways, I was wondering, is there a big performance difference between the new Jug and the ones we have? I know its lighter, but is there a big performance difference, or just more of the same thing?
Is it gonna have a special role in Aces High that will enhance my gameplay? or will it just make the same difference the -25 makes from the -30?
Anyways, whats the purpose of this plane, other than stop the whinning P-47 guys
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The Razorback is a P-47D-20RE, just a different block variant. It has a longer tail wheel than earlier P-47's (B and C models), uses an R-2800-59 engine (2,300hp w/WEP), and has the "universal" wing. This wing was fitted starting with the D-20-RE production block and continued through the end of production. Joe Baugher has a lot of info on his site here:
http://home.att.net/jbaugher1/p47.html (http://home.att.net/jbaugher1/p47.html)
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/htbin/delta6.jpg)
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Flakbait, according to the serial # on the tail, it's a D-11, not D-20.
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
www.56thfightergroup.org (http://www.56thfightergroup.org)
This is Yardstick, follow me"
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Yeah thats some very nice info and I'm sure its very good, but, still how does it perform compared to the P-47s we already have? is there a big difference?
How will it contribute to the planeset?
Anyways, I think its very nice we are getting a variation of a plane, its just that I'm curious.
anyways, I would have hoped for a variation of the P-38 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
we only have one.
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P-38D baby!
One more Q: does the razorback jug carry less ammo than the later models? Less guns?
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Don't think so. And I don't think the P-38D ever saw any combat either. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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The D-11-RE used a Pratt & Whitney R-2800-63 with GE Type C-23 turbosupercharger and water injection system. Bodie's book says it produced 2000 HP @ 2700 rpm under WEP, but has a footnote that it may have been 2300 HP (maybe with water injection?). The weight of this jug is about the same empty as the D-25, but fully loaded it is about 1100 lbs lighter. This is because this jug doesn't have bomb mount points on the wings. The D-11 carries the same exact same 8 gun ammo load for the guns--unlike the B stang which loses guns and ammo in it's "razorback" config.
<speculation>
Speed of the D-11 will be essentially the same as the 2 current jugs. The D-11 is a bit lighter and should turn slightly better. Also, the razorback dorsal surface gave this jug better stability through turns--stability the jug lost when it went to bubbletop design. The razorback should be a more stable gun platform.
So nothing shocking here, but I believe this plane will make a better dogfighter than the previously modeled jugs. There is no purpose for adding this plane other than stopping my whining. (http://www1.jump.net/~cs3/smilies/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Tac:
One more Q: does the razorback jug carry less ammo than the later models? Less guns?
No sir, same loadout. However earlier models weren't equiped readily for Air to Mud duty.
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Contratulations Sancho! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And I am sorry Frenchy didnt get the one he wanted
Thats what he get for being so queer :P
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The main weight difference is not due to bombmounting provisions, but fuelload, with the D-25 having some 70 gallons more fuel capacity.
The Razorback have belly shackles for either a 500lbs bomb or up to 200 gallon droptank.
According to "From Seversky to Republic" the D-11 did have water injection, giving it 2300HP.
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
www.56thfightergroup.org (http://www.56thfightergroup.org)
This is Yardstick, follow me"
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"Don't think so. And I don't think the P-38D ever saw any combat either"
Wrong.
"The P-38 D was the first variant of a P-38 to be considered combat capable. It contained an upgraded armor plate in the cockpit, armored glass behind the pilot, self-sealing fuel tanks, and a low pressure oxygen system. Two combat units were formed (The 1st Pursuit Group at Selfridge Field, Michigan and the 14th Pursuit Group at Hamilton Field, California). The P-38 D was the first American aircraft to score a kill against the Luftwaffe on August 14, 1942 by Elza Shahan against a FW-200 bomber."
http://www.p-38online.com/optp38s.html (http://www.p-38online.com/optp38s.html)
37mm cannon.. *drool*
But lets not get off topic eh? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
So this new jug should be better at Air to Air? Cripes, I hope that reduced visibility gives Drex and Frenchy a handicap (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Man this is funny not only do we get YET another US unit, it is virtually Identical to the ones we have performance wise.. wait the view out the back sucks even more than the current ones....FOR the love of god why do they keep adding more US stuff???, O wait because the customer wants it...........ahhhhhh
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[This message has been edited by brady (edited 04-15-2001).]
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Hmmm...
By August 1942, 81 P-38Fs of four of the six squadrons of the 1st and 14th Fighter Groups had arrived in Great Britain to complete the first transatlantic crossing by single-seat fighters. Two other Lightning squadrons (the 27th and the 50th) were held over in Iceland to assist the Curtiss P-40Cs of the 33rd Fighter Squadron in the flying of defensive patrols over the Atlantic. On August 14, 1942, a P-38F flown by 2nd Lieut Elza Shaham shared with a P-40C in the destruction of a Focke- Wulf FW-200C-3 to obtain the first victory over a Luftwaffe aircraft.
Changes were taking place at such a rapid rate that even the changes introduced on the P-38D did not really make it combat-ready. In 1942, the P-38 was redesignated RP-38 and the P-38D was redesignated RP-38D, the 'R' prefix meaning 'restricted to non-combat roles'. They were used strictly as combat trainers.
P-38s, RP-38s, and some P-38Ds from Selfridge Field were active participants in the September 1941 Army-Navy joint maneuvers in Louisiana, but few of the actually had any guns installed. By the time of Pearl Harbor, there were only 69 P-38 and P-38D fighters on strength.
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p38.html (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p38.html)
Yeah brady, when we could have another version of Fw 190 or Me 109 instead!
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 04-16-2001).]
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At least the German variants seam to have more difference between them performance wise, at least most of them (F8/A8 would be an exception).
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[This message has been edited by brady (edited 04-16-2001).]
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The Jug was one of the most produced planes in the war. It makes sense that we have a few variants of it. Now where's that 47M or N? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Guys, it sounds like we are getting both of these planes to help the CM crew fill out the plane set for scenarios. That is a great reason to add new planes. The HTC crew is adding planes at an AMAZING rate, so IMHO we have nothing to complain about. Your favourite will be included pretty soon Im' sure. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Also remember that we haven't seen all of what's coming in 1.07 yet.
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
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Sure the game could definitely use a few more new planes from other countries than the US. But variants of planes already in the game can be cranked out faster than completely new planes... there isn't as much modelling to do on the actual plane model or the flight model. Having a bunch of variants for scenario and even arena use is as Leph said, a good thing.
I take it you won't be flying the -D-11 Brady?? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn, while I'll agree that the P-47 deserves several varients given its importance, and production numbers.
Please try and explain to me WHY we need THREE different D model varients that fly so similarly that if you switched the FM's around between them in a blind test, 99.5% of the Aces High population couldn't tell the difference?
I wouldn't have made a peep if we got the M or N series, and if it was thought we needed an earlier P-47 why didn't we get a B or C ? Why oh Why another D series I can't figure out.
I'm with Brady!
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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1. We get gaudy P-47D-30 from a little-known unit, causing much noise from the 56th FG guys...
2. We get a Brazilian D-25, little is known about the "arrangements" those South Americans made with HTC to swing it, though...
3. We get a D-11 "razorback", the classic Jug shape, with Gabby's paint to shut the 56th FG guys the hell up, but it doesn't work. They want a red nose. The OD is a suspect shade, etc...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Btw, the P-47B wasn't used in combat. And the P-47C is practically the same as the D-11, only minus water injection which was probably retro-fitted anyway.
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Originally posted by Tac:
37mm cannon.. *drool*
Didn't it only carry like 15 rounds of 37mm ammo?
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What Juzz said. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I will fly the D11. I want a classic Jug, one with a historical paint scheme I can identify with, and Gabby's certainly is one of 'em. This is an A2A Jug and a Razorback, none of that crappy A2G pylon stuff in the way. As to why? How about because it was not likely a whole lot of extra work? Minimal FM changes, and a birdcage instead of a bubble top, so not a whole lot of art work changes needed either. The Jug variants are likely some of the easiest ones for HTC to do, and that may play a role in it. They know there are lots of folks who will love this bird in AH, so if they can do it for minimal work, why not?
And... who says we are not getting the M or the N? We'll have to wait and see. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I think the D-11 is a better choice than the old C model, more representative and a bit more competitive to boot. Maybe somebody at HTC liked it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Who knows why Verm, but I don't think it's right to second guess HTC's decisions on what they spend their time on. There are lots of reasons we don't know about that influence those decisions, so second guessing them is pretty pointless.
I'm just thankfull for what we do get. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
When 1.07 comes out, I'm going to love flying this D11 vs. 109's of the period and early model 190 A's. Heck, the D11 is quite representative of the 9th AF Jugs in the pacific as well. I think it's a great Jug that will be used in many scenarios, and I'm glad they took the time to model it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
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Lephturn, Of coure I have a right to question why. Just like any other player has a right to say "Huh?" when it comes to the game we play. Of course I don't have a right to get my question answered, or a decision changed, but I can certainly ask the question "why".
I guess, I am making statements, based upon some knowledge that isn't generally available in the community. So I best just shut up.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
So I best just shut up.
Amen Sir (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Juzz said..
We get a D-11 "razorback", the classic Jug shape, with Gabby's paint to shut the 56th FG guys the hell up, but it doesn't work. They want a red nose. The OD is a suspect shade, etc...
Please follow verms advice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
ammo
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Originally posted by juzz:
1. We get gaudy P-47D-30 from a little-known unit, causing much noise from the 56th FG guys...
2. We get a Brazilian D-25, little is known about the "arrangements" those South Americans made with HTC to swing it, though...
3. We get a D-11 "razorback", the classic Jug shape, with Gabby's paint to shut the 56th FG guys the hell up, but it doesn't work. They want a red nose. The OD is a suspect shade, etc...
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
B]
I'm talking for my name, i don't know for others.
You guys have to understand that I am a fanatic, not just the regular buff lover. I'm not sure that anyone flew the P47 for more than 90% of the time since his release in 1.03...( especially the 1.04 flight model transition).
I'm a fanatic of Gabby's late camo, bubble top, inv stripes, red nose, red tail. Anything else on a jug for me is "not worth it" compared to this.
It's maybe like when you see your favorite car with those wheels, this wing, this color. Anyone having the same car but with red flames paintjob and a modified hood, you may think :"what a shame".
When the D30 whent out, I was choked by the paint job, sure it was historical but it's far from the usual colored nose, with or without checkers. But I had a bubble top, Pyro said that the M would be having 56th markings (hey, can't have anything else anyway hehehe).
When the D25 went out, I was crying. As you know, my favorite jug is Gabby's one, who was a D25. It was Brazilians colors, a great unit but not really the dream plane I was waiting for. But it was a nice gesture from Pyro to the Brazilian pilots, cheered me up a bit. (But on those Brazilians who requested it, how many flew it consistantly?).
Finally we have the D11. So now people say:"there goes your 56th, shut up". Not really, and that's still the fan aspect who pops out, that's maybe why you guys can't understand. It may be Gabby's P47 and one from the 56th, but it looks like most of the P47s from this time period, just painted with a white nose to avoid confusion with the FW190s. So do we have the feeling that it's a 56th P47? Not really.
That's why we said "prefered with a red nose". And on a personal note, it's Gabby's P47, so it means for me that I will never see "my Gabby late war camo", the one I shake everytime I see a picture.
But I still have some hope, the P47M is yet do come. It will have a red nose, if I'm lucky enought, he will be close of Gabby's camo (dark grey with green zebra's plus inv stripes). it will probably be a perk too, but I don't care, I will be sooooo happy to fly it around. I will look at the videos over and over (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I just hope Pyro will not elect the blue/dark blue camo of some planes of the 63rdFS, as it's one of my least favorite from the whole P47 paintjob set.
Juzz, Vermillon ... You guys probably think I should get my injection and bring back to quarantine, but ... hey ... we all strongly believe in something. I always understood people requesting such or such camo for they favorite plane, because I feel the same.
(on a side note, looks like that the P47 comunauty is the most demanding/loud) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/gabby.gif)
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Give him his damn Gabby camo painting as a 10-Points perk only him can use so we can shut him up already (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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well I will say this, I am "pickeled" tink over the D-11, completely satisfied, no complaints and understand frenchy. I think it an honor that HTC modeled any P-47 after the 56th FG colors and I will fly it...much (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Even when the P-47M comes out..the D-11 will be my mainstay ride. Someone right that down somewhere and show it to me next year.
(http://home.nc.rr.com/ammo/public.html/ammo_sig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
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Frenchy, I think your prescription for Prozac has been filled at the pharmacy. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://www.jump.net/~cs3/sigs/uns_sig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 04-17-2001).]
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Ok, now I'm not sure who is worse... the Luftwobbles who want 37 different Bf109 varients, and 23 Fw190 varients, or all you P47 fanatics.
Jeez (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Hehe.
BTW Verm, I agree you have every right to question HTC's decisions. I just said it was pointless to do so. I think you pretty much agreed with that. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
In the mean time, I'm REALLY going to enjoy flying the D11. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
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Originally posted by Animal:
Give him his damn Gabby camo painting as a 10-Points perk only him can use so we can shut him up already (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Oh oh... I can ear it from here :"THAT"S FRENCHY!!! LET'S BANG HIM!!!"
But I don't care, whatever it takes to fly it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Animal, if you go down in FL, I will fly you around for being "nice and understanding to the 56th cause" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Vermillon, wait for the Spitfire Saga to start, and you will regret the P47s fanatics (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Sancho, here is what happens when I'm under Prozac : http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/009309.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/009309.html)